Big Sister, Big bad, or just a front woman?

[Boom_Stick]

Okay, the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. The big Sister is ((To our knowledge)) a little sister, who missed Rapture and one day went back. After ((I assume)) Tenenbaum told her she was to old to be a little sister, she partially did the big daddy procedure on herself. This drove her somewhat insane, and since then she has been collecting little sister's from the surface world.

Now, no offense, but does anyone really buy she's the "big bad" if the womans so crazy she'd half mutilate herself, I seriously doubt she could make focused rational decisions. Not to mention perform Bid Daddy procedures on other people. Even if the original BD's are alieve surely that many hadn't survived.

Does this not sit well with anyone else? I mean I have no doubt she may be a boss fight or something, but does anyone else think that a wacho crazy ***** ruling rapture a little odd? Not to mention she doesn't have the DNA code key, or she'd just have you mowed down by turrets and such.

Also ((And I hope I'm wrong and not running the game here, this is a 1005 original though)) What if the "big sister" is your "Little sister", you were the FIRST Big Daddy, you signed up I assume because someone important to you became a little sister and needed protecting.

So, what if either A "Big sister" was the first little sister thus why she wants it back, and instead of stopping her, you realize your supposed to SAVE her from the Damnation that is Rapture.

OR you end up killing her, her face plate falls off, you see her face, it triggers your memories, and it turns out you've been manipulated by Tenen this whole time?

[TurdSandwitch]

Where does it say that the Little Sister became crazy? I thought that she missed her old life and she wants Rapture to have the homeostasis that it did while she was there so she started doing the things she has done.

I also believe that because you are the prototype Big Daddy you didn't undergo the complete process therefor I don't think that he had a Little Sister ever assigned. This Big Daddy has free will and choice and doesn't have the need to protect the Little Sisters like the other ones do. Hence the option to Harvest still exists. We will find out more as the game gets closer to the release but that is my two cents

[Boom_Stick]

Where does it say that the Little Sister became crazy? I thought that she missed her old life and she wants Rapture to have the homeostasis that it did while she was there so she started doing the things she has done.

I also believe that because you are the prototype Big Daddy you didn't undergo the complete process therefor I don't think that he had a Little Sister ever assigned. This Big Daddy has free will and choice and doesn't have the need to protect the Little Sisters like the other ones do. Hence the option to Harvest still exists. We will find out more as the game gets closer to the release but that is my two cents

I'm not sure, a couple of interviews have said "her condition" but it seems weird that a sane normal person woudl find rapture a good home.

Ans what you said about the bgi daddy thing made sense, btu why woudl you sign up to be the first one unless you had a good reason. Also while they may have drafted you into it, I think if they had, they'd have mind wiped you or something because it seems stupid to let someone whos' committed a crime be the strongest thing in Rapture. Also Ryan is paranoid, I'm sure he'd have killed you if that was the case.

[TurdSandwitch]

Well that is the nice thing about the BioShock 2 story line, we don't know but a few snippets about the story behind the Big Daddy and the Little Sister but that just makes me anticipate the game even more! If I knew too much about whats going on then the excitment level and the wow factor of playing through BioShock 2 would decrease. I'm sure there will be more released on the stories of these characters but I'm hoping it won't be much!!!

[brendensavi]

Okay, the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. The big Sister is ((To our knowledge)) a little sister, who missed Rapture and one day went back. After ((I assume)) Tenenbaum told her she was to old to be a little sister, she partially did the big daddy procedure on herself. This drove her somewhat insane, and since then she has been collecting little sister's from the surface world.

Now, no offense, but does anyone really buy she's the "big bad" if the womans so crazy she'd half mutilate herself, I seriously doubt she could make focused rational decisions. Not to mention perform Bid Daddy procedures on other people. Even if the original BD's are alieve surely that many hadn't survived.

Does this not sit well with anyone else? I mean I have no doubt she may be a boss fight or something, but does anyone else think that a wacho crazy ***** ruling rapture a little odd? Not to mention she doesn't have the DNA code key, or she'd just have you mowed down by turrets and such.

Also ((And I hope I'm wrong and not running the game here, this is a 1005 original though)) What if the "big sister" is your "Little sister", you were the FIRST Big Daddy, you signed up I assume because someone important to you became a little sister and needed protecting.

So, what if either A "Big sister" was the first little sister thus why she wants it back, and instead of stopping her, you realize your supposed to SAVE her from the Damnation that is Rapture.

OR you end up killing her, her face plate falls off, you see her face, it triggers your memories, and it turns out you've been manipulated by Tenen this whole time?

I don't think Tenenbaum told her anything, she just has an emotional connection to Rapture and wants to restore it to it's former Little Sister glory, which is what Tenenbaum wants stopped, which is where you come in. I don't think she half mutilated herself either, her suit is similar to a Big Daddies, but that doesn't mean she had to go through the same process. The process of becoming a Big Daddy was so that you could become a protector for the Little Sister's, and not show any signs of your previous life, and she obviously is doing the same thing she set out to do before she got the suit, and still has a mind for herself. I don't remember ever hearing about her preforming Big Daddy procedures on anyone else either, and I don't think she's thought of as the new ruler of Rapture either. She's not a "wacko crazy *****" she's just a grown up Little Sister who has an emotional connection to Rapture and wants to restore Rapture to it's former Little Sister glory (as far as any of us know). We'll have to wait until we can play the game to find out anything else.

[JimmyTheCannon]

I was under the impression that she didn't just "miss" Rapture, she was unable to cope with the outside world and went back to what she was most comfortable with.

In other words, she was already "messed up" before she became the Big Sister, and that's *why* she did so.

[Boom_Stick]

See, something interesting is I tend to see things in Grey, even R.L. events. That being said, I can see a pity able side to the Big sister at this point. If she really was unable to deal with the world and in turn fled it and wanted Rapture back in it's prime.

Remember though, as a few people and interviewers have said, "The original Bio shock was pretty much black and white, while the new one will have more shades of grey."

So, their is a 75% chance that we'll NOT want to kill the bgi sister when it comes time to do the deed.

Mind you I'm a softy, I have yet to play through the game and kill all the little sister's I can get through about 1 and then I can't do it anymore, especially when I kill a big daddy and listen o her cry.... Yeah I'm a wuss, But you've got to wonder how the big sisters and other's will pull at your heart strings this time.

I mean the person who I felt HORRIBLE for was Andrew Ryan. I mean he just wanted a place where what you did, the effort YOU put into your work came back to YOU. Who HASN'T worked their arse off, and yet been passed over, or had to share a reward for your work with someone who didn't deserve it? School, working for a company, all this, and that's just around here, not even mentioning places like Russia, or other third world countries. ((Yeah I know Russia isn't a third world country, for the point of the Bio shock world I'm talking/typing about communist Russia))

And sure, he screwed over the little sisters, but look at what most countries go through to form, what kind of testing scientists do. I know it sounds bad, but to save a thousand lives, I'd sacrifice a few hundred little girls, and not really even sacrificing them since ounce they got to be pubescent the slug would be removed, and they could have relatively normal lives.

But I'm getting off topic, you all raise some good point, and interesting ones as well.

[Artisimo]

You sound a tad sexist to me without realising it. Sander Cohen was probably the craziest guy in Rapture, and he was in charge of Fort Frolic. He was only a Houdini splicer.

[Drow]

I don't think she's thought of as the new ruler of Rapture either.

Actually, this is exatly what was said in GameInformer - she's at the top of the food chain in Rapture and is treated as the new ruler.

@Boom_Stick: it's very probable that we'll be out to save her, not to specificly kill her, but.. who knows. I wouldn't give a precentage about it.

[Boom_Stick]

You sound a tad sexist to me without realising it. Sander Cohen was probably the craziest guy in Rapture, and he was in charge of Fort Frolic. He was only a Houdini splicer.

Where does the "only a Houdini splicer" thing come from?

[Boom_Stick]

Actually, this is exatly what was said in GameInformer - she's at the top of the food chain in Rapture and is treated as the new ruler.

@Boom_Stick: it's very probable that we'll be out to save her, not to specificly kill her, but.. who knows. I wouldn't give a precentage about it.

I wonder though, I mean something can be at the top of the food chain, and still not be the ultimate predator. I'm not saying you've got the wrong idea, but for example humans aren't better killers than Tiger's but were at the top of the food chain. SO, while she may be the worst enemy, it seems odd for her to get "Dirty' herself if she's in charge of Everything.

[Artisimo]

Where does the "only a Houdini splicer" thing come from?

In comparison to say, the big daddy's or Fontaine at the end

[TurdSandwitch]

I wonder though, I mean something can be at the top of the food chain, and still not be the ultimate predator. I'm not saying you've got the wrong idea, but for example humans aren't better killers than Tiger's but were at the top of the food chain. SO, while she may be the worst enemy, it seems odd for her to get "Dirty' herself if she's in charge of Everything.

Well you know the old saying; "If you want something done right then do it yourself." or what have you.

She wants Rapture to be how it was in her eyes, not anyone elses. Maybe she feels that no one can put together the pieces like she can. Plus, there isn't anyone else sane enough to help her. That we know of.

[Zvriel Chkies]

I think she will be a pawn and some big villain is controlling her.
There is no reason to think she is insane though. She is very organised and clever.
I think Tennennbaum or someone else is behind it.

I never liked Tennenbaum. Too sentimental and fake. The ruthless genius scientist that is fine.
But the wailing about the 'little ones'. What a annoying and fake woman.

[JimmyTheCannon]

Well you know the old saying; "If you want something done right then do it yourself." or what have you.

She wants Rapture to be how it was in her eyes, not anyone elses. Maybe she feels that no one can put together the pieces like she can. Plus, there isn't anyone else sane enough to help her. That we know of.

...you're saying the Big Sister is sane? I'd hate to see your definition of insane, then.

[japester]

Just because she has different values doesn't make her insane. She spent her formative years as a Little Sister, so that seems "normal" to her. And she wants that feeling of normalcy back. At worst, you could say she's brainwashed a bit, but crazy? I haven't seen evidence to support that yet.

As for the OP, I think it's been hinted at several times by the dev's that Big Sis isn't the absolute biggest baddie. For one, she doesn't have the know-how to do all the things she's done, and two, 2K would never reveal the biggest threat in their first round of PR.

It seems fairly certain that she appears to be in charge to everyone in Rapture because she is the figurehead (and the "muscle"). But someone is quietly pulling her stings and manipulating her for their own ends. I'm betting she doesn't even know she's dancing to someone else's tune. She thinks she is getting her way when she really isn't.

I like the concept of you and she being tied together somehow. I speculated very early on that you might a female and that she was your daughter.

[Venom Wolf]

It seems fairly certain that she appears to be in charge to everyone in Rapture because she is the figurehead (and the "muscle"). But someone is quietly pulling her stings and manipulating her for their own ends. I'm betting she doesn't even know she's dancing to someone else's tune. She thinks she is getting her way when she really isn't.

I like the concept of you and she being tied together somehow. I speculated very early on that you might a female and that she was your daughter.

I was thinking Big Sister = Big Brother from Orwell's 1984.

Big Brother appears to rule the state of Oceania, but he's probably made up. Could be something similar here, only you actually do see her running around. In the book, Big Brother is only spoken of by the citizens and propaganda films and posters, no-one has ever met him or seen him in person.

(And it turns out its an organization called The Party that's running the place anyway.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four)

[SomewhereBeyondtheSea]

Sane for Rapture anyway.

[Boom_Stick]

In comparison to say, the big daddy's or Fontaine at the end

Ah, I see, but Fontaine is I THINK human just does on a **** load of Eve.

[Boom_Stick]

Well you know the old saying; "If you want something done right then do it yourself." or what have you.

She wants Rapture to be how it was in her eyes, not anyone elses. Maybe she feels that no one can put together the pieces like she can. Plus, there isn't anyone else sane enough to help her. That we know of.

((Nods)) the somewhat true, and I get what you mean abotu sane. The best comparison I have is the Joker ((From batman)) he can walk around and talk to you normally before he kills you.

Also the only difference between someones who's insane and someone devoted are words. I mean look at old religions you may be expected to kill a child for being born wrong. Were those people insane or devoted to their gods. ((Yes, I'll probably get in trouble for using religion as a basis, but it was what jumped to my mind. I don't' mean to offend anyone, I'm Atheist myself so I tend to offend people with my religious views))

[Boom_Stick]

I think she will be a pawn and some big villain is controlling her.
There is no reason to think she is insane though. She is very organised and clever.
I think Tennennbaum or someone else is behind it.

I never liked Tennenbaum. Too sentimental and fake. The ruthless genius scientist that is fine.
But the wailing about the 'little ones'. What a annoying and fake woman.

I though that too. She seems to be odd, but then again she may be slightly cracked, a little Bi polar?

Also, remember when she made the Lil Sis's, their life was one of comfort, before the fall they were treated like normal girls, the eve removed periodically, but other than that they were princesses.

[Boom_Stick]

Just because she has different values doesn't make her insane. She spent her formative years as a Little Sister, so that seems "normal" to her. And she wants that feeling of normalcy back. At worst, you could say she's brainwashed a bit, but crazy? I haven't seen evidence to support that yet.

As for the OP, I think it's been hinted at several times by the dev's that Big Sis isn't the absolute biggest baddie. For one, she doesn't have the know-how to do all the things she's done, and two, 2K would never reveal the biggest threat in their first round of PR.

It seems fairly certain that she appears to be in charge to everyone in Rapture because she is the figurehead (and the "muscle"). But someone is quietly pulling her stings and manipulating her for their own ends. I'm betting she doesn't even know she's dancing to someone else's tune. She thinks she is getting her way when she really isn't.

I like the concept of you and she being tied together somehow. I speculated very early on that you might a female and that she was your daughter.

I hope not, I know it sounds sexist, but I don't' like when they pull a gender bender on you. Be a guy, or a girl, but dont' switch it up on us. Also, I agree with your above points. I figured you may be her REAL big brother, and you only remember when you've about killed the Big Sis, and her mask falls off. I men what big brother wouldn't' be willing to get made into a monster to protect their little sister? ((Okay I wouldn't' but I don't like my little sister))

[BioShock Freak]

Just because she has different values doesn't make her insane. She spent her formative years as a Little Sister, so that seems "normal" to her. And she wants that feeling of normalcy back. At worst, you could say she's brainwashed a bit, but crazy? I haven't seen evidence to support that yet.

As for the OP, I think it's been hinted at several times by the dev's that Big Sis isn't the absolute biggest baddie. For one, she doesn't have the know-how to do all the things she's done, and two, 2K would never reveal the biggest threat in their first round of PR.

It seems fairly certain that she appears to be in charge to everyone in Rapture because she is the figurehead (and the "muscle"). But someone is quietly pulling her stings and manipulating her for their own ends. I'm betting she doesn't even know she's dancing to someone else's tune. She thinks she is getting her way when she really isn't.

I like the concept of you and she being tied together somehow. I speculated very early on that you might a female and that she was your daughter.

Awesome ideas. I also like the concept that you and her are tied somehow. That would just make the story VERY deep and so interesting. I think there's gonna be a few twists that are just gonna blow us away and say "NO WAY!" Lol. Well, here's hoping. Lol.
~Mari.

[Raining Light]

I hope not, I know it sounds sexist, but I don't' like when they pull a gender bender on you. Be a guy, or a girl, but dont' switch it up on us. Also, I agree with your above points. I figured you may be her REAL big brother, and you only remember when you've about killed the Big Sis, and her mask falls off. I men what big brother wouldn't' be willing to get made into a monster to protect their little sister? ((Okay I wouldn't' but I don't like my little sister))

You are playing as 2 different characters between BS1 and BS2, why does it matter if they switch up you playing as a male or female?

I too think there will be a connection between you. I am interested to see where it goes.

[LookBehindU]

Since its relevent to this current discussion I'm going to copy paste my earlier father and child theory

My theory is simply this; at some point either just before or after you defeat the Big Sister you learn that she is in fact your daughter. Let me elaborate. Many of Rapture's families were heart-broken by the taking of their daughters for use in the Little Sister program. During this time you were the father of one of these girls that was taken away. Instead of falling into despair and suicide (the Lutz family) your character decided to take a more active approach into finding out what happened to his daughter. Hearing something about a program called fail-safe armored escorts and how it is somehow connected to the Little Sister program he decides to volunteer. You have no idea that being a volunteer means that you'll be turned into a mindless monster. During the transformation process all your memories of your life are wiped clean.

[Raining Light]

Since its relevent to this current discussion I'm going to copy paste my earlier father and child theory

I actually also posted this theory--although not so elaborate--not so long ago. Japster noticed .

[Boom_Stick]

Since its relevent to this current discussion I'm going to copy paste my earlier father and child theory

Not bad at all, only reason I dont' think so because you'd be pretty old by the time this story took place. That being said though, I'm sure age is relative to the BD's.

[BioShock Freak]

Well, if he WAS to be her dad, then he wouldn't be THAT old. She's gotta be between 15 and 17 (I think). If she was one of the ones that were taken from their families, then she was about 4-6, and he mustn't be that old at that time.

Since its relevent to this current discussion I'm going to copy paste my earlier father and child theory

I can see that being a possibility. I'm almost certain you and her will have SOME kind of deep connection to each other.
~Mari.

[Boom_Stick]

You are playing as 2 different characters between BS1 and BS2, why does it matter if they switch up you playing as a male or female?

I too think there will be a connection between you. I am interested to see where it goes.

((Smacks himself lightly in the forehead)) You can't be a woman big Daddy, Big sister IS big sister because she tried to turn herself into big daddy and failed.

No female can become a Big daddy just liek no boy can become a little sister.

I'm sure it has something to do with genetics, liek the sea slug likes the increased hormones or something.

[Raining Light]

((Smacks himself lightly in the forehead)) You can't be a woman big Daddy, Big sister IS big sister because she tried to turn herself into big daddy and failed.

No female can become a Big daddy just liek no boy can become a little sister.

I'm sure it has something to do with genetics, liek the sea slug likes the increased hormones or something.

We know that boys couldn't due to the audio dairies(but it still is not explained),
but was there something on women not being available as Big Daddies?
--Also you are a prototype, they could have tried whatever they wanted-including females.

Just because there is a name doesn't mean its a rule.
The name Big Sister, to me, is because she is a former Little Sister-has nothing to do with trying to transform herself.

[BioShock Freak]

We know that boys couldn't due to the audio dairies(but it still is not explained),
but was there something on women not being available as Big Daddies?
--Also you are a prototype, they could have tried whatever they wanted-including females.

Just because there is a name doesn't mean its a rule.
The name Big Sister, to me, is because she is a former Little Sister-has nothing to do with trying to transform herself.

Yep, I totally agree with you.
~Mari.

[japester]

The name Big Sister, to me, is because she is a former Little Sister-has nothing to do with trying to transform herself.

Yeah, I agree, too. She wants to be a Little Sister, but since that is impossible, she will be a BIG Sister. Her whole character is built around clinging to the "Sister" portion of her life.

Conjecturing about a family relation to her makes me think that, in order to pull that off, they would need to have a very detailed flashback or prequel sequences. What I mean is, if seeing Big Sister's face at the end is supposed to be a huge reveal, then you will have to instantly recognize it. And it will only have an impact if they have spent significant time building that relationship up. That means tons of ghost sequences or very clear, playable prequel sections with her....

Speaking of curve balls--and this is a bit OT for this thread--I wondered yesterday if Big Sis (or her master) might fight fire with fire as far as we are concerned. In other words, who's to say that that we were the only prototype Big Daddy? The developers have already said we would see new variants, but I think we assumed these were just different production models in other parts of the city. But I'm talking about really outrageous versions, kind of like us. They might have started with our model, scrapped it entirely for something different, then come back and said, "Well, the first once worked better....maybe if we power it down and make it more pliable...." Just a fun thought.

[BioShock Freak]

Yeah, I agree, too. She wants to be a Little Sister, but since that is impossible, she will be a BIG Sister. Her whole character is built around clinging to the "Sister" portion of her life.

Conjecturing about a family relation to her makes me think that, in order to pull that off, they would need to have a very detailed flashback or prequel sequences. What I mean is, if seeing Big Sister's face at the end is supposed to be a huge reveal, then you will have to instantly recognize it. And it will only have an impact if they have spent significant time building that relationship up. That means tons of ghost sequences or very clear, playable prequel sections with her....

Speaking of curve balls--and this is a bit OT for this thread--I wondered yesterday if Big Sis (or her master) might fight fire with fire as far as we are concerned. In other words, who's to say that that we were the only prototype Big Daddy? The developers have already said we would see new variants, but I think we assumed these were just different production models in other parts of the city. But I'm talking about really outrageous versions, kind of like us. They might have started with our model, scrapped it entirely for something different, then come back and said, "Well, the first once worked better....maybe if we power it down and make it more pliable...." Just a fun thought.

Interesting. I can see at one point Big Sister being vulnerable just like a Little Sister. Like, her helmet came off or something and it reveals her face. Maybe not being able to use her powers or something. I'd like to see what she looks like.
~Mari.

[Boom_Stick]

We know that boys couldn't due to the audio dairies(but it still is not explained),
but was there something on women not being available as Big Daddies?
--Also you are a prototype, they could have tried whatever they wanted-including females.

Just because there is a name doesn't mean its a rule.
The name Big Sister, to me, is because she is a former Little Sister-has nothing to do with trying to transform herself.

It says in an auto diary that only guys can be big daddies. I dont' remember why, but it could be any number of reasons. Just like they don't' know why only girls can be little sisters.

Also, they've said in interviews, "After she found out she couldn't be a little sister she was to old, she tried to turn herself into a big daddy and partially succeeded, and partially failed."

[JimmyTheCannon]

It says in an auto diary that only guys can be big daddies. I dont' remember why, but it could be any number of reasons. Just like they don't' know why only girls can be little sisters.

Also, they've said in interviews, "After she found out she couldn't be a little sister she was to old, she tried to turn herself into a big daddy and partially succeeded, and partially failed."

Which audio diary is that? I don't remember it.

[Raining Light]

It says in an auto diary that only guys can be big daddies. I dont' remember why, but it could be any number of reasons. Just like they don't' know why only girls can be little sisters.

Also, they've said in interviews, "After she found out she couldn't be a little sister she was to old, she tried to turn herself into a big daddy and partially succeeded, and partially failed."

There is an audio diary that says that they couldn't use boys for the gathers, only little girs=Little Sisters. But I don't remember any on the Big Daddy.

And while your quote for the Big Sister transforming is accurate--it clearly says she still wanted to be a little sister, but couldn't. Then and only then did she try to transform herself and failed at it. She only became a BIG Sister cause she was to old to be a LITTLE Sister.
--Just like Japster said

Besides its just a name.

[Boom_Stick]

Which audio diary is that? I don't remember it.

Either one of the ones in the like r elatively ealry on, or one of the ones in the Big daddy factory.

It coudl have something ot do with family she has to be important to her family. ((Sorry if this is redudant it's late here))

[JimmyTheCannon]

There's nothing in Point Prometheus saying Big Daddies have to be men. There's one saying Little Sisters have to be girls, yes, like Raining Light said, but nothing about the BDs. Where's this one relatively early on?

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Audio_Diaries

[Zvriel Chkies]

Either one of the ones in the like r elatively ealry on, or one of the ones in the Big daddy factory.

It coudl have something ot do with family she has to be important to her family. ((Sorry if this is redudant it's late here))

There are none saying LS have to be important to family.
But there is many speaking of the bond between BD and LS and it's importance.

[Boom_Stick]

There are none saying LS have to be important to family.
But there is many speaking of the bond between BD and LS and it's importance.

No, I mean Big sister, she may see it important that she's seen as a SISTER because to her Rapture is her family, her home.