Non-Splicers in Bioshock

[RTM]

During the game Bioshock, you run into a couple people that arent completly demented crazy splicers, some of these include-
Julie Langford
and Frank Fontain, (first time)
there are also a couple of arguable ones, such as,
Steinman
and Andrew Ryan.
I could have missed some, but this was all i could come up with at the time. You hear about the civil war between splicers and normal people all the time through audio diaries throughout rapture. And Obviously, the splicers won. But surely not all of the normal non-splicer people died did they? I mean i dont know the original number, but in an audio diary you hear about Raptures highest population, something like 20,000, how could all those people die, and if they didnt, any ideas on where they are? im just really curious.

[thrall23]

most of them got killed but some did not i have also wondered this but if they are not dead they are in hiding the splicers will cut anyone down aside from a BD so that's why there is little to non normal people left.

[E.Bouncer]

ummm I am not sure if you know this but steinman is one of the most demented, messed up, lunatic, crazy, splicers of the game... there is no way you can say he was a normal person


Andrew Ryan definately

there is also tenenbaum


as to where all the people went... well it was a war and thousands upon thousand die in wars, but if there were still heaps left then dont forget that rapture is a HUGE city. Jack only went where Atlas/Fontaine and all the other characters wanted him to go.
think of it, a huge grand city made up of about 10 sections... there is no way we saw all of rapture

all the normal people could have barricaded themselves into another area, or another idea (proble less likely) is that quite a few of them found a way to the surface, but that one is harder to believe because only "Ryan's inner circle" can use the bathysphere


~We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us~

[RTM]

But Steinman never uses any powers, unless he just has tonics, he just uses a machine gun.

[E.Bouncer]

But Steinman never uses any powers, unless he just has tonics, he just uses a machine gun.

besides the houdini splicers and Fonataine, no one else really uses there plasmids openly... you got spider splicers with their athletic ability, you got thugish with their tonics (the elctrocution one) but otherwise they all use guns. and dont show none of their stuff openly even though they are meant to be seriously spliced up.


~We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us~

[RTM]

I suppose ur probably right, Steinman obviously had a mental problem, probably coming from too much splicing.

[Jack FontaineCS]

Almost everyone did some wrong in Rapture. I know this will sound stupid/gay, but I somewhat think the game is a tad bit sexist. The only people who are totally sane are Tenenbaum and Langford, both females. Why couldn't they have added a janitor or something who was in hiding?

[Forsaken Lament 04]

I think the game implied that everyone else was dead, and it seems unlikely that you would simply never see one single survivor throughout your entire city of Rapture...of course, I'm sure not all of them died, but it seems that there really can't be a whole lot left...

As for the crazy characters..look, if you listen to the audio recordings, Cohen was crazy before getting spliced up, simply because he was jealous of Anna Culpepper. As for Steinmen, sure his tonics messed with his head, but it also seems his personal vision got the best of him. And of course, Ryan...as I've said before, I believe it his leadership role and his drastic decisions which made him lose focus, not splicing. He may have a had a few tonics, but I believe Ryan was very much a sane and normal man until the end.

[Who_is_Atlas?]

Almost everyone did some wrong in Rapture. I know this will sound stupid/gay, but I somewhat think the game is a tad bit sexist. The only people who are totally sane are Tenenbaum and Langford, both females. Why couldn't they have added a janitor or something who was in hiding?

Because every other game usually has the survivors only as men? It's an indictment of the establishment of the late 1950s and early 1960s too: men dominate the arena, which is also why they're the most 'fallen' individuals. A janitor is also unlikely to have such a safeguarded hideaway in a place like Rapture, simply because of the fact that none of Rapture's norms favor the lower classes. Tenenbaum too nearly didn't redeem herself, and only did so because of the Little Sisters at the end. Langford's death is symbolic, I think, because of the fact that she didn't speak out against evil (Ryan, in the form of shutting down Arcadia, and obvoiusly his later crimes) when it was most prevalent in front of her; she too was blinded by money and greed.

As for the question itself, I find it likely that most were killed off by the splicers, or perhaps they all died of natural causes (starvation, hypothermia, lack of sleep, etc.). Or perhaps even the Big Daddies got a lot of them, considering the fact that they probably stupidly at first just charged at them. How else would the later splicers learn to form better tactics against them?

[gbpackers25]

During the game Bioshock, you run into a couple people that arent completly demented crazy splicers, some of these include-
Julie Langford
and Frank Fontain, (first time)
there are also a couple of arguable ones, such as,
Steinman
and Andrew Ryan.
I could have missed some, but this was all i could come up with at the time. You hear about the civil war between splicers and normal people all the time through audio diaries throughout rapture. And Obviously, the splicers won. But surely not all of the normal non-splicer people died did they? I mean i dont know the original number, but in an audio diary you hear about Raptures highest population, something like 20,000, how could all those people die, and if they didnt, any ideas on where they are? im just really curious.

Andrew Ryan never was spliced up (unless he really hides it well) when you kill him later in the game he doesnt looked like he spliced at all

[Atlas the Fisherman]

For non-splicers this is how I saw it:

Steinman, Suchong, Peach Wilkins, Atlas, Tenenbaum, Langford, and Ryan.

The only reason they look like splicers (with the exception of Ryan) is because those characters models are all reused splicer models fixed up to look like normal people. For instance, Steinman and Suchong's corpse were the Dr. Grossman leadhead splicer skins, Wilkins was a Nitro Splicer, Atlas was a waders splicer, Tenebaum and Langford were the Lady Smith leadhead splicer model.

[Asherah]

I think it's hinted that most of the population either became splicers or died from the ensuing chaos of the civil war. Once the war began, you have people fighting on both sides with superhuman abilities in an enclosed area, I'm sure once a full-scaled battle started there wasn't many places to could go to escape it. Also once the war began you start to have other problems like rationing, extreme martial law, depression over the declining state of the city, and certainly the ever growing number of citizens becoming deranged who would probably slit their neighbors' thoarts for absolutely no reason. Counting all that, I think that the majority of the unspliced population are most likely dead.

[Forsaken Lament 04]

For non-splicers this is how I saw it:

Steinman, Suchong, Peach Wilkins, Atlas, Tenenbaum, Langford, and Ryan.

The only reason they look like splicers (with the exception of Ryan) is because those characters models are all reused splicer models fixed up to look like normal people. For instance, Steinman and Suchong's corpse were the Dr. Grossman leadhead splicer skins, Wilkins was a Nitro Splicer, Atlas was a waders splicer, Tenebaum and Langford were the Lady Smith leadhead splicer model.

Yes, I noticed that, and it really is a shame they didn't put just a bit more effort into differing character models. I think it's slightly passable for Steinmen(he's wearing a doctor's mask) and Suchong, who's too messed up from being dead...but they really should have given the others they're own models, as to do justice to the characters...

[Bioshocking123]

but they really should have given the others they're own models, as to do justice to the characters...

Yes, yes, and YES.
Honestly, Langford and Tennenbaum look nothing like they should. I'm glad they gave Ryan his own skin, but other than that, 2K slipped up in that department.

[Cohen's Masterpiece]

ummm I am not sure if you know this but steinman is one of the most demented, messed up, lunatic, crazy, splicers of the game... there is no way you can say he was a normal person

Lol, he's normal in the way that Andy Rooney is normal

[rootbeertapper]

I am just glad I left in 1958 before the metro closed and surfacing was banned and the city went under martial law.

"Well meet again don't know how don't know when but I know well meet again some sunny day"

[ATLAS IS WATCHING]

the only sane people were prob andrew ryan, julie langford, tenabaum
and dr. shuchong. dr. steinmen was very spliced..

[BioShock Freak]

For non-splicers this is how I saw it:

Steinman, Suchong, Peach Wilkins, Atlas, Tenenbaum, Langford, and Ryan.

I'm pretty sure Steinman and Peach Wilkins were spliced up. Steinman obviously was since he went insane. Peach didn't just look spliced up, but he sounded like one- insane.
Tenenbaum, Langford, Ryan, and Suchong I believe were normal. This is just my personal opinion, though.
~Mari.

[vampristic]

In times of trouble people turn to two main things. Suicide and drugs. Now, drug drugs are very hard to come by in Rapture, so most people turned to ADAM. However, once you have a hit, you need more to keep your body stable, which is why ADAM is so hard to come by. Not exactly sure why EVE is so common, but oh well. As for unspliced people, they're all around. Just look at all the corpses littering Rapture. They just chose suicide over drugs.

On the topic of Langford and Tennebaum using Splicer skins ...well that was what 2k decided to make people look like. It's not really wrong, it's just a different kind of art. You can't really compare them to normal, normal people because there aren't many in Rapture. Seeing as how one of the main characters is a pyschopathic plastic surgeon, I'm not surprised I didn't find many beautifull people quite honestly.

[Atlas the Fisherman]

I know Steinman wasn't exactly normal, but I never really saw him as the kind of person who was spliced up. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but I saw Steinman as going insane as a side effect from all the ADAM he used to work with when preforming surgery on his patients. But I didn't see him as the kind of splicer who was jacked up on all sorts of different plasmids. I think his only real weapon when you fight him in his machine gun if I'm not mistaken. Maybe the exposure to ADAM is considered splicing, but I guess I just looked at it a different way. Steinman seemed insane with his hallucinations of Aphrodite, but he was not just an normal run-of-the-mill splicer screaming random gibberish at you...at least not in my opinion.

As for Peachy, I never even really thought of him as being spliced up, just paranoid that Fontaine was still alive and out to get him.

There was nothing to really suggest that Suchong, Tenebaum, or Langford had ever spliced up.

[Atlas.]

Hard to tell with the insane ones whether they were spliced or if they just were generally insane. Steinman seems to have just went insane. Dont see why he'd have spliced up himself when he was such a highly respected doctor, he should have known better. I'd guess he went insane from his quest for 'perfection'. Clearly seen when we meet him in the surgery wing. No-one is 'perfect' enough for him "This one too fat! This one too tall! This one too symmetrical!" In his audio diary 'Not what she wanted' it sounds as if he is beginning to turn there, like thats why he became that way. He doesnt look like a splicer, he just sounds crazy to me. And when he talks about Aphrodite... I understand he wanted to help people look better but I think he just took it too far and it turned him a lil crazy


Peach i dont think was a splicer really. He had the form of a nitro splicer but i dont think he was one. He was totally paranoid about Fontaine coming back to get him which i believe, like Steinman, he too also went crazy but in Peach's case due to his fear of Fontaine's return. When he's talking to Jack he sounds reasonably normal, you can hear the paranoia in his voice at times when he stutters "I'll have you in a b-b-box" Cant be sure though, maybe he did splice a bit to protect himself in case Fontaine did come back..


Cohen just seems crazy for the majority of the time. At first i had no idea he was a splicer. If you wait until his appartment (dont kill him in Fort Frolic) and get him to come down from his room, you will see he's a houdini splicer. I just thought he was insane. Well if you leave him alone i guess he's the only splicer who wont try and kill you (apart from that one time in Fort Frolic... lol)


Non-splicers:

Tenenbaum being the most obvious one. She was smart and appeared not to need to splice, nor want to for that matter. Having researched into ADAM she will have known exactly what it does to you and im sure she wouldnt have wanted to use it. Maybe her helping the Little Sisters took her mind off it and gave her a goal to focus on and in some way by helping them, redeem herself for what she had done to them in the first place

Langford is normal too. Seems more interested in her plants than anything else. Seems unlikely she'd have really even left Arcadia. She complains about the stupidity of the splicers calling them 'spliced up morons' and how no-one appreciates her work

Ryan is also normal, he neither looks nor sounds like a splicer. Someone of his power i dont see as needing to splice up. He had his own army of splicers which he controlled with pheromones to fight Atlas so i dont think he personally would have taken any ADAM. He doesnt seem spliced at all, he didnt talk crazy especially at his office where he speaks very reasonably and strongly, he knew that he was in control over what was going to happen

Suchong I doubt would have taken it either. It sounds as if he died while Fontaine was alive, therefore probably before all the rush for buying plasmids and everything. Also very smart i dont think he'd have had need to splice either. Also as with Tenenbaum, he was on Fontaine's side


The last non-splicer main character i can think of is Fontaine himself. He seems perfectly normal up until the end where he reveals himself that he is splicing up. I guess he spliced as he knew Jack was coming after him to kill him. Jack being as spliced as he was with all his plasmids, Frank would need to splice too in order to stand any chance in a fight against him. Though he may have spliced before this point, as we only have his word that he didnt, then he didnt sound it. He still seemed like himself as you hear him in his diaries. A splicer to have done such a convincing act as he did as Atlas... Im pretty sure he was normal too up until the end


The other people in Rapture? Most likely died in the war, became part of the 'splicer armies' or maybe there are some normal people still alive in other areas of the city. Rapture is a big place and we only got to see a small section of it. Seems likely there will be others around in other parts of the city hiding somewhere...

[Kyburz]

Great post Atlas, I would completely agree with you for the most part. I do think however that Steinman spliced, as one of his audio diaries seem to point strongly in this direction.

"I am beautiful, yes. Look at me, what could I do to make my features finer? With Adam and my scalpel, I have been transformed. But is there not something better? What if now it is not my skill that fails me... but my imagination?"

[Atlas.]

Great post Atlas, I would completely agree with you for the most part. I do think however that Steinman spliced, as one of his audio diaries seem to point strongly in this direction.

"I am beautiful, yes. Look at me, what could I do to make my features finer? With Adam and my scalpel, I have been transformed. But is there not something better? What if now it is not my skill that fails me... but my imagination?"

Thats true... good point Kyburz. Really is hard to tell with Steinman. There it definately sounds as if he is referring to using it on himself rather than just in his operations on his patients. Maybe he used it on himself, then started to turn insane and give his patients 'more than they wanted' in order to make them 'perfect'. He saw the huge possibilities that ADAM offered and upon taking it himself, he goes insane? That audio diary does sound as if he used it. Maybe it lead to his halleucinations of Aphrodite...

[Forsaken Lament 04]

The last non-splicer main character i can think of is Fontaine himself. He seems perfectly normal up until the end where he reveals himself that he is splicing up. I guess he spliced as he knew Jack was coming after him to kill him. Jack being as spliced as he was with all his plasmids, Frank would need to splice too in order to stand any chance in a fight against him. Though he may have spliced before this point, as we only have his word that he didnt, then he didnt sound it. He still seemed like himself as you hear him in his diaries. A splicer to have done such a convincing act as he did as Atlas... Im pretty sure he was normal too up until the end

This is interesting. We know that in order to have passed as Atlas, Fontaine would have HAD to have changed more than just his voice...many people see him, yet do not realize that he is Fontaine, which leads me to believe that he had plastic surgery of some kind. Now does this imply that Steinman
could have worked with Fontaine on some level? I'm not sure..Steinman seems to be a pretty big fan of Ryan...but regardless, if Fontaine changed his face with ADAM, does that mean that he himself had been spliced from the start?

[Atlas.]

This is interesting. We know that in order to have passed as Atlas, Fontaine would have HAD to have changed more than just his voice...many people see him, yet do not realize that he is Fontaine, which leads me to believe that he had plastic surgery of some kind. Now does this imply that Steinman
could have worked with Fontaine on some level? I'm not sure..Steinman seems to be a pretty big fan of Ryan...but regardless, if Fontaine changed his face with ADAM, does that mean that he himself had been spliced from the start?

Another good point there. I had thought before that he may have had surgery when he changed into Atlas. Nothing major would have been needed to be done, just a few small changes. I had wondered if he had seen Steinman. If he had Steinman could easily have went to Ryan and told him but if he was insane by that time he may not. He probably wouldnt anyway out of fear for what Fontaine would do to him if he did. Then again as it wasnt anything major that needed changing maybe he didnt need full surgery. He was a great conman and maybe had his own ways of making those sort of changes

Another thing i wondered is whether he took the hair tonic 'Fresh Hair' that you hear advertised. The fact that the guy in the ad is also called Frank might be a hint at that. That or it was just Ryan trying to get at him. Maybe he did have minor surgery and used the tonic to become his new alias, or maybe he didnt need to. If he did splice in that way it didnt sound like anything major like the other splicers. He still sounds pretty much normal and doesnt act crazy until the end

Its just that when he is splicing up he sounds as if he had never felt its effects before "Don't know what I was thinkin'. Never spliced up once the whole time I was down here in this aquarium. Figured it was bad to mix business with pleasure, but WHOOO! Forget all the nose candy and floor polish I been wastin' time with! THIS stuff is the mothers milk!" We only have his word that he hadnt before but from the way he acts at that moment it does sound as if it was new to him. Then again he was a good actor wasnt he


Interesting points Kinda hard to tell though.... If we get a prequel i'd love to find out more info like this

[RTM]

I doubt that Steinman did any cosmetic surgery to Fontain, i would guess that Fontain stayed with people that wouldnt turn him in to Ryan, and besides, if he had had cosmetic surgery done to him, he would like like ****, because after Steinman went balistic few people survived his torture surgeries, as he used no asthetics. And those that lived often wished they hadnt.

[mummyjohn]

I am just glad I left in 1958 before the metro closed and surfacing was banned and the city went under martial law.

"Well meet again don't know how don't know when but I know well meet again some sunny day"

Dr. Strangelove reference, I take it? Great film.

----------

So, to address the other topics of discussion, there are multiple options with Atlas as I see it:

• He could have had strictly surgery done, no genetics involved. Could be Steinman, could be another doctor - I say if it was Steinman, this isn't a story issue because it would probably be before Steinman got all butchery.
• He used both surgery and Adam, or even just Adam. Here is why I say this is not a big issue: some people have done a drug once or twice in their life, and you wouldn't ever be able to tell. The single, small-dose of Adam used to change Fontaine`s appearance would likely not have affected him mentally at all. Also, 99.8% of any given human`s genome is identical to any other humans. In other words, 99.8% of our genome makes us human, the other 0.2% makes us different from each other. Since all he was doing was changing his appearance, it is clearly a very small alteration (modifications like Electrobolt and the others probably mess with the 99.8% - making people into something not entirely human...)

[Simtanic8]

^^I also doubt that Stienman did surgery on Fontain.
I think that since the city is so big, and we were only in a small portion of Rapture that there are more Non_Spliers in the city. That they took refuge and shelter in other buildings.

~Simtanic8

[RTM]

Now that i think about it, i wonder if Bioshock 2 would incorperate the nonsplicers that are left trying to take back of the city again, it could work.
Although there might not be enough of them left to do enough damage to the splicer population, but hey it is an idea. And yea, Simtanic8 i would say you are right, we saw only a very small part of the huge city of Rapture, they could have whole areas locked down, so no splicers could get through, it would be kinda cool to see it if there is though.

RTM

[Bioshocking123]

Now that i think about it, i wonder if Bioshock 2 would incorperate the nonsplicers that are left trying to take back of the city again, it could work.

Excuse me while I go off on a tangent. Teaser trailer. Yes, I know you all are sick of hearing about it. Give me a second. Rapture riding out of the sand? Heh heh heh, I do believe that RTM's point here could be entirely plausible...


Back on topic.

Non-Splicers in my opinion:
Johnny
Ryan
Tenenbaum
Julie
Peach

[Atlas.]

Non-Splicers in my opinion:
Johnny
Ryan
Tenenbaum
Julie
Peach

How could i forget about Johnny? Yeah i think he was pretty normal too. He looks like a splicer, but so do the other characters. Re-used splicer skin i'd think. He sounds normal anyway. If he had been a heavier splicer then surely he wouldnt have been so scared of that splicer

Ah poor Johnny... he was just trying to help I dont think he was a splicer but its possible that he might have taken some in his line of work....

[RTM]

Excuse me while I go off on a tangent. Teaser trailer. Yes, I know you all are sick of hearing about it. Give me a second. Rapture riding out of the sand? Heh heh heh, I do believe that RTM's point here could be entirely plausible...


Back on topic.

Non-Splicers in my opinion:
Johnny
Ryan
Tenenbaum
Julie
Peach

I agree with you, except for Peachy, he was definatly spliced up

[Forsaken Lament 04]

You also have to remember the LEVEL of splcing...I'm sure the vast majority of the population didn't get spliced up to the extent Cohen or the other Splicers were, but you have to remember this became a really mainstream practice in Rapture. Not for shooting flames from your hands mind you, but instead for re-growing hair and improving your lighting cigarettes...I'm sure almost everyone was spliced to some degree.

[ImAGoodGirl]

Ryan was never spliced, he was just the creator of the splicing.
I think Fontaine was the one that was spliced.
But theres also the dancers in Cohen's room. They don't look spliced up to me!. And what about the piano player and the other three people you had to kill for Cohen?.
Not all of the little sisters were messed up either.
Theres still live people in Rapture, who arent spliced or crazy. You just have to know where to look for them.

[rootbeertapper]

It's not really certain whether Cohens deciples were spliced or not. The models used are the 'Toasty' splicer but he looks clean compared to others. They all wear the same outfit and all have the long tear on their pant leg and I think they all wear the same colorful mask. They are also the only splicers that you can steal a flower from their body.

[ImAGoodGirl]

So if they were spliced... maybe it just wasn't that bad?.
Cause they seem semi-normal to me. Especially the piano guy who begs not to be blown up.

[mummyjohn]

People sometimes take certain bits of the game to literally that are actually just the result of technical work, by which I mean the fact that there are fewer character models in the game than there ought to be sometimes. Julie Langford's in-game model was not a hot young blonde, it was the Lady Smith model. Also, Lady Smith was used for Tenenbaum.

Cohen's disciples also look worse than they probably are. For example, the record store guy and Fitzpatrick the pianist are not as spliced up, I'd say, but they have character models that look like they've done more. Finnegan (the Iceman) and Rodriguez (the Eve's Garden guy) are probably more spliced, however:

• The Iceman is for one thing an ice-type Houdini, so serious plasmid work there. Also, he is a little nutso (listen to his diary, plus he is hanging around with some corpses in a frozen tunnel).
• Rodriguez is definitely in his own world, because he does not realize that the all the entertainers in the strip club are dead. In fact, he thinks the place is still operating, albeit with worse service.

But the real point of the thread it seems is to discuss the presence of totally (near totally) un-spliced characters. I would say we meet them ocassionaly in game, but there are probably dozens or even hundreds barricaded away somewhere, behind an airlock door or some such. Too bad they can't all communicate with each other...

[Majoras incarnation]

Suchong I doubt would have taken it either. It sounds as if he died while Fontaine was alive, therefore probably before all the rush for buying plasmids and everything. Also very smart i dont think he'd have had need to splice either. Also as with Tenenbaum, he was on Fontaine's side

I would like to point out that for the sake of being a nit picker that Suchong died after Fontain.

Suchong audio diary: Fontain is dead...bad for Fontain...good for Suchong

[Atlas.]

I would like to point out that for the sake of being a nit picker that Suchong died after Fontain.

Suchong audio diary: Fontain is dead...bad for Fontain...good for Suchong

Ah yes thats right. The things i forget these days Still i dont think he'd have spliced. With the work he was doing it seemed unlikely, he was probably too busy working all the time anyway and at that time working on his enrage plasmid testing...

Thanks for correcting me, I forget stuff sometimes