Highest Gold/Science? Can anyone beat my record?

[Poida12]

So i have been playing a game on King as Japanese today for a bit of fun (not much of a challenge), and after i had taken all the cities on the map except the Egyptian Capital i decided to see how high i could get my science, gold etc. Now it is 2098 (one turn left) and i have 37581 science per turn and 34233 gold per turn! This includes 21050 gold in my capital alone! I have no idea how many great people i have but it is a lot and i have about 90 future tech i think - maybe more (it's been one per turn for a while). My best production city produces 576 production and my best culture city is at 411 with 2590 culture per turn over my whole empire.

My question is can anyone or has anyone beat/beaten that? I have 19 cities by the way and room for probably about 12 more good island ones if i could be bothered. So i guess you could go double this.

What's your record?

[Pedal2Metal]

What's your record?

I got 12540 gold/turn in 1 city (yes, a single city) with no future tech. It was an island city with Spanish civ, 31 pop, Internet, Colossus, Trade Fair, Eco GP, market, bank, East India Company, courthouse, democracy, Industrialization, Corporation, 2 dye squares. It wasn't perfect as I still had 2 squares that were forest instead of ocean. Tech was something like 4000+/turn. With future tech, by 2098 AD, it was well over 30000 gold/turn. For all cities (I had 20), I was well over 100000 gold/turn. Tech was lower but still ridiculous at something like 30k/turn. Funny thing when you get to >4 digits for a single city/turn, you lose like half of a digit on the cities report display for the most right digit so I'm guessing the designers didn't expect us to get 5 digits of tech/eco per turn for 1 city. I'm convinced this is nowhere near the limit as some of the players, like Frelinder, can do eco/tech victories in 100-200 AD which means if they took all those years to build future tech, it would be an insane amount of gold/tech per turn. However, without future tech, there is a maximum amount that is achievable per turn. It's somewhere close to 12540/turn for gold although it's probably more like 13-14k/turn as those 2 squares were hurting my gold production.

best regards,
eric

[derekt75]

I was playing the French on deity, and things seemed to be going my way. Early in the 16th century there was only one city on the map (Moscow) that wasn't mine, so I figured I'd see how high the gold production could go. turned out to be 182084 in 2098AD. Focusing on science would get me 93162 beakers per turn. Culture was 6100 per turn.
I had 49 cities each with population 31. Sea tiles gave me 22 food and 23 trade. I used most of the lake/sea/desert tiles available on the map.
In retrospect, I should have built more inland cities. While they wouldn't have used any more water, I would have had more workers inside cities generating trade.
Obviously, I'd also be far better off with a civ that has a gold bonus. Either the 50% variety or the 2% interest variety. (2% interest on 10,000,000 would exceed all of my production!)

Some quirks:
I earned a bunch of great people that the game didn't let me use. I'm guessing my problem was that I had set all of my cities to science, thus preventing production. Maybe if you do this, the city refuses to produce the great person?

The histograph seemed somewhat normal up until around the time I nuked the Russians. After that, the Russian slice of the histograph went negative. The eliminated civs were correctly zero in the late game.

The game was really slow when I was trying to micro-manage tiles (trying to optimize for the cities that had the great explorer/scientist). I'm not sure if this was because I had 31 people or because it was trying to draw 43 pictures per tile.

Here are my thoughts on Pedal2Metal's city:
(4 Bank) *
(2 Colossus) *
(2 Trade Fair) *
(2 Internet) *
(1.5 Great Person) *
(1.5 Democracy) *
(1.5 Spanish) =
a factor of 108.
With East India, each tile then produces 3 * 108 = 324!
He had 18 tiles plus two dye = 20 * 324 = 6480.
13 in-city workers on "balanced" can generate 1*5 + 6*4 + 6*3 = 47 gold * 108 = 5076.
Add in 7*108 for first production, and you get a total of 12312.
13 in-city workers on "gold" can do better, generating 1*6 + 6*5 + 6*4 = 60 gold * 108 = 6480 for a total of 13716.
I'm not sure why neither number agrees perfectly with Pedal's, but they're both close.
As far as I can tell, two tiles of forest don't matter at all. The first 13 workers of a 31 pop city can generate as much or more trade inside the city as they can on a sea tile, even with East India.

[MorteEterna]

The record is not how much.

The record is how early

I got 5000 science / 1575 AD

[The Panguin]

I'm not sure why you guys would waste your time spending turn after turn doing nothing? >_>; Anyone can beat the AI, so what you guys are doing isn't really impressive, since the AI will never quit and you can just camp all their tiles to stop them from ever doing anything while you spam cities and junk. If you want to impress people and show some real talent then do it in a real game and have screenshots. Granted you probably wont be able to since people will leave or the game will end before that, but still! Making insane amounts of science or gold against real people more impressive by leaps and bounds then against the mindless AI.

Also, why no proof? =P Morte at least had screenshots showing his achievement, but you guys are just all talk, and since no one will ever bother to see if they can replicate your results (and i still find it hard to believe no one got to invention by 2100 in pedals game) no one can be sure you guys are right, or just full of it. =P

[Poida12]

I'm not sure why you guys would waste your time spending turn after turn doing nothing? >_>; Anyone can beat the AI, so what you guys are doing isn't really impressive, since the AI will never quit and you can just camp all their tiles to stop them from ever doing anything while you spam cities and junk. If you want to impress people and show some real talent then do it in a real game and have screenshots. Granted you probably wont be able to since people will leave or the game will end before that, but still! Making insane amounts of science or gold against real people more impressive by leaps and bounds then against the mindless AI.

Also, why no proof? =P Morte at least had screenshots showing his achievement, but you guys are just all talk, and since no one will ever bother to see if they can replicate your results (and i still find it hard to believe no one got to invention by 2100 in pedals game) no one can be sure you guys are right, or just full of it. =P

Diodn't start this thread to show off. I was just curious to see what was possible. I know that my game was by no means the best possible so i didn't see a need to take a photo though i still have the save so i could. Anyone could do what i did and better. I'm just curious what the best guy can do. How high does this game allow? And i think Morte is probably right in that the real record is how quickly.

[MorteEterna]

I'm not sure why you guys would waste your time spending turn after turn doing nothing? >_>; Anyone can beat the AI, so what you guys are doing isn't really impressive, since the AI will never quit and you can just camp all their tiles to stop them from ever doing anything while you spam cities and junk. If you want to impress people and show some real talent then do it in a real game and have screenshots. Granted you probably wont be able to since people will leave or the game will end before that, but still! Making insane amounts of science or gold against real people more impressive by leaps and bounds then against the mindless AI.

Also, why no proof? =P Morte at least had screenshots showing his achievement, but you guys are just all talk, and since no one will ever bother to see if they can replicate your results (and i still find it hard to believe no one got to invention by 2100 in pedals game) no one can be sure you guys are right, or just full of it. =P

My records were online games, but the first one (2600/1450 AD) on deity.

However, the best guy is not who got the best science early.. That's all about LUCK, like starting with 8 deserts with egypt, no romans, chinese in the game and colossus

[derekt75]

Panguin, I have the saved game on my PS3. Do you really want a screenshot? What's the best way to get one? The only way I know is to pull out a camera and take a picture. Is there a better one? After that, does this forum accept images, or would I need to post it somewhere else?

Morte, 5000 science per turn at 500AD is incredible. I had 330 science in 550AD and thought I was having a great game. However, poida asked how high it could go, and I thought I could contribute something to his question. Like Poida, I think it would be much higher than my number. If you can get 5000 science in 500AD, you could build a lot more future tech than I was able to. But he asked, and I answered.

and as for it taking a lot of time, it takes some time, but maybe not a lot of time. You need to switch to republic, build a bunch of settlers, build a market, bank, library, university, harbor, courthouse, temple, and cathedral. You also need to switch your cities to gold or science as appropriate.

I was doing some of this anyway, since I want it to show that I got all 4 types of wins with each civ, but I'm really just using one start for each and using the saved games for the other 3. (I don't load until I've already won, so I'm not "cheating" that way, just "cheating" by playing 1 game instead of 4).

Anyway, after building the buildings, it just goes. 2000 to 2100 takes little time as you only need to hit circle a few times every two years. As I said, I lost a lot of great people, and that might be because I had production turned off in every city, but I wouldn't want to worry about 49 cities producing 9 infantries per turn telling them to defend; that would take a long time.

While I allowed three other civilizations to flourish until 1000AD and thus get some technology, I have no problem believing that Eric was able to dominate the other civs enough to prevent them from getting the invention tech. As Panguin points out, once you're dominant, you can just park units on their squares as long as you're not a democracy. (until you're really dominant, then you can switch to democracy, and still not let them use a tile).

Anyway, I certainly didn't set out to set a record using the French. but it just started to happen, so I went with it.

Do you want the screenshot? I think we can all agree that 182k gold per turn is far from the best possible (especially if you're willing to count a civ with 2% interest). I also think that Eric's number is very believable since it comes a little short of my calculations. But if my credibility is in doubt, I can fix it with 10 minutes of effort.

[Frelinder]

Morte, 5000 science per turn at 500AD is incredible. I had 330 science in 550AD and thought I was having a great game. However, poida asked how high it could go, and I thought I could contribute something to his question. Like Poida, I think it would be much higher than my number. If you can get 5000 science in 500AD, you could build a lot more future tech than I was able to. But he asked, and I answered.

.

Well Morte said 5000 Beakers/turn in year 1575 AD and not 500 AD.

Whithout saying to much I can say that 5000 sciense in year 500 AD is impossible.

Another thing. I doubt this is the record. I have personaly had better numbers then this. But it all depends on in what type of game and so on...

So its realy impossible to compare a record to another record. Only fair place to do so would be in GOTW. And there its not realy a test of true skill because you can play it over and over again....

*cheers*

[Pedal2Metal]

I'm not sure why you guys would waste your time spending turn after turn doing nothing? >_>; Anyone can beat the AI, so what you guys are doing isn't really impressive, since the AI will never quit and you can just camp all their tiles to stop them from ever doing anything while you spam cities and junk. If you want to impress people and show some real talent then do it in a real game and have screenshots. Granted you probably wont be able to since people will leave or the game will end before that, but still! Making insane amounts of science or gold against real people more impressive by leaps and bounds then against the mindless AI.

Also, why no proof? =P Morte at least had screenshots showing his achievement, but you guys are just all talk, and since no one will ever bother to see if they can replicate your results (and i still find it hard to believe no one got to invention by 2100 in pedals game) no one can be sure you guys are right, or just full of it. =P

I disagree that spending time experimenting for fun is "doing nothing". It's FUN! I don't play to impress people, I play for FUN! What a concept! :-)
It's a GAME, not world peace/domination. If you want to truly do something impressive, why not: go cure cancer, build an orphanage, win an Olympic gold medal, become President of any country, love your kids, love your wife, etc.... If you think being good at a video game is "impressive", we live in completely different worlds & the one I'm living in is the real world.

Regarding proof, I don't need to provide proof. This isn't some scientific breakthrough or something.... Anyone can easily duplicate (or close to it) the results I produced because I laid out the fundamental elements to achieve it. As you (& others) pointed out, it's easy to do w/AI & no one mentioned or stated it was done in MP which it wasn't in my case. I did it w/AI for FUN! Can you imagine such a thing? FUN?!? Why, that's HERESY, who ever thought you would play a game for FUN?!?

thanks,
eric

[Pedal2Metal]

I was playing the French on deity, and things seemed to be going my way. Early in the 16th century there was only one city on the map (Moscow) that wasn't mine, so I figured I'd see how high the gold production could go. turned out to be 182084 in 2098AD. Focusing on science would get me 93162 beakers per turn. Culture was 6100 per turn.
I had 49 cities each with population 31. Sea tiles gave me 22 food and 23 trade. I used most of the lake/sea/desert tiles available on the map.
In retrospect, I should have built more inland cities. While they wouldn't have used any more water, I would have had more workers inside cities generating trade.
Obviously, I'd also be far better off with a civ that has a gold bonus. Either the 50% variety or the 2% interest variety. (2% interest on 10,000,000 would exceed all of my production!)

Some quirks:
I earned a bunch of great people that the game didn't let me use. I'm guessing my problem was that I had set all of my cities to science, thus preventing production. Maybe if you do this, the city refuses to produce the great person?

The histograph seemed somewhat normal up until around the time I nuked the Russians. After that, the Russian slice of the histograph went negative. The eliminated civs were correctly zero in the late game.

The game was really slow when I was trying to micro-manage tiles (trying to optimize for the cities that had the great explorer/scientist). I'm not sure if this was because I had 31 people or because it was trying to draw 43 pictures per tile.

Here are my thoughts on Pedal2Metal's city:
(4 Bank) *
(2 Colossus) *
(2 Trade Fair) *
(2 Internet) *
(1.5 Great Person) *
(1.5 Democracy) *
(1.5 Spanish) =
a factor of 108.
With East India, each tile then produces 3 * 108 = 324!
He had 18 tiles plus two dye = 20 * 324 = 6480.
13 in-city workers on "balanced" can generate 1*5 + 6*4 + 6*3 = 47 gold * 108 = 5076.
Add in 7*108 for first production, and you get a total of 12312.
13 in-city workers on "gold" can do better, generating 1*6 + 6*5 + 6*4 = 60 gold * 108 = 6480 for a total of 13716.
I'm not sure why neither number agrees perfectly with Pedal's, but they're both close.
As far as I can tell, two tiles of forest don't matter at all. The first 13 workers of a 31 pop city can generate as much or more trade inside the city as they can on a sea tile, even with East India.

324/square sounds correct. Excellent mathematical breakdown. I had thought of the same thing: How much gold can I make without doing any future tech? It was fun trying to find out.
With future tech, it's totally limited by how soon you get to future tech as Morte pointed out. With Morte's score, it's a ridiculous amount by 2098 AD.

best regards,
eric

[Pedal2Metal]

I have no problem believing that Eric was able to dominate the other civs enough to prevent them from getting the invention tech. As Panguin points out, once you're dominant, you can just park units on their squares as long as you're not a democracy. (until you're really dominant, then you can switch to democracy, and still not let them use a tile).

But if my credibility is in doubt...

You are correct, that's what I did. I also had my culture so large it completely dominated the map.

Your credibility is fine. Anyone who plays CivRev a bunch has created a massive gold city & can verify this is easily doable. As my grandma used to say: "Sometimes, you just have to consider the source."
No need to join someone else in their "crisis of proof"...

best regards,
eric

[Pedal2Metal]

Only fair place to do so would be in GOTW. And there its not realy a test of true skill because you can play it over and over again....

*cheers*

Good GOTW scores do require skills, albeit somewhat different skills from MP. I doubt many people can beat RickWJ at GOTW in Diety so it's definitely a skill & not something everyone can do equally well. So the "test of true skill" depends upon what "skill(s)" you are trying to test. GOTW favors "puzzle-solving" while MP favors optimizing your strategy dynamically from a solid base strategy for your specific civilization & worrying less about the "puzzle-solving" aspects. Anyhow, that's my $0.02 although I'm way off-topic now so I'll shut up now...

best regards,
eric

[Frelinder]

Good GOTW scores do require skills, albeit somewhat different skills from MP. I doubt many people can beat RickWJ at GOTW in Diety so it's definitely a skill & not something everyone can do equally well. So the "test of true skill" depends upon what "skill(s)" you are trying to test. GOTW favors "puzzle-solving" while MP favors optimizing your strategy dynamically from a solid base strategy for your specific civilization & worrying less about the "puzzle-solving" aspects. Anyhow, that's my $0.02 although I'm way off-topic now so I'll shut up now...

best regards,
eric

True. Saying it not requires "true skill" to pull of good scores on GOTW is not quite right. Maybe syaing a different kind of skill though then from what is required to be a top MP player.

If you week after week can do good scores on GOTW I belive that you probably would be an excellent MP player to. The strategies and the knowing of how the game works you can take whith you to MP and adapt to that kind of gameplay.

Also if someone sits home and play an ordanary SP deitygame. Then who can say if he didn't saved in year 4000 BC and more or less made that game to an GOTW?

I can defently see the fun in playing the game to 2098 to see how strong its possible to be and I think I will give it a shot. For fun! . Although I agree whith Morte that scores that are impressive are the ones that are shoving how fast you can be strong/win a non dom wictory.

Scinse last week when there was Egypt and I made a 150 AD ecowin I have been thinking if its possible to do an BC non dom win...(on Deity ofcourse and no scenario) Its just 4 turns faster... on the other hand 4 turns that early in the game is a HUGE! different. Would be very imressive though if someone could make it

*cheers*

[MorteEterna]

324/square sounds correct. Excellent mathematical breakdown. I had thought of the same thing: How much gold can I make without doing any future tech? It was fun trying to find out.
With future tech, it's totally limited by how soon you get to future tech as Morte pointed out. With Morte's score, it's a ridiculous amount by 2098 AD.

best regards,
eric

Well, counting from 1575 to 2098 there are like 100-150 turns, I think I would have more than 100'000 science per turn

It was an online game however, than, it wasn't really easy to do without the other quitting. In one team with romans I had like 3000 by 1450 (against two good players, and they were zulu and japan)


PSSSSSSS: I play for fun, in fact I don't play against AI because that's the most boring thing..

[outlawtown]

highest i ever had was 6000 gold per turn on a city. it only had access to 3 water tiles but it also had a gold and a desert tile. i had 19 wonders in that city and one of every type of GP

[Pedal2Metal]

PSSSSSSS: I play for fun, in fact I don't play against AI because that's the most boring thing..

That's good to hear! Fun vs. boring is a matter of opinion so to each his own. I enjoy GOTW, my son loves MP, go figure...
As you pointed out, it's difficult to do a controlled experiment in a random MP game, although one could possibly do it with cooperative friends in the room. So SP/GOTW is usually a better forum for experimentation.

best regards,
eric

[Pedal2Metal]

I can defently see the fun in playing the game to 2098 to see how strong its possible to be and I think I will give it a shot.

I only quoted the above but I'm going to cover several things you mentioned...

I certainly enjoyed it. In my case, I was specifically going for how much gold/turn maximum in 1 city without any future technology since there is a hard limit to this number. With future technology, it's simply insane although that would be interesting as well, I've never tried that. In that case, I have much to learn. I think the expansionist strategy which is fundamental to non-tech wins is also fundamental to consistent MP wins so while I can do domination wins in GOTW, I don't think that is sufficient to perform well in MP as early BC dom wins in GOTW are usually 1 or 2 cities only + captured capitols. I need to get better at tech/eco/culture wins first. I must admit having the MP games hang roughly 30% of the time is a real impediment to getting involved although my son continues to play MP under the same ID when he's not grounded.

best regards,
eric

[Techtree53]

Hit a new record today as china on a ranked ffa.... 400 gold/turn and 1200 science/turn at 100AD. Had 17 cities by 1000BC lol.

Unfortunatly the other players left the game at 1050AD when i was pumping out 2000 gold/turn and 4000 science/turn with harbors/courthouses/universities in most cities.

[bumbumalot]

my record is on ranked ffa 4000 sci/3200 gold 1000ad - tech vic next turn.

[Pete UK28]

~135k science/turn or ~256k gold/turn (obviously with sh*tloads of future tech ) i had 50 cities or so, with practically no more space left on the map.
i reckon science can be pushed up to 200k/turn on a good map.

[MorteEterna]

~135k science/turn or ~256k gold/turn (obviously with sh*tloads of future tech ) i had 50 cities or so, with practically no more space left on the map.
i reckon science can be pushed up to 200k/turn on a good map.

As I said, that's not a great record, it's just the time. And I'm SURE it wasn't a ranked game and if it was, not against good players. And I bet it was with handicap/low difficulty. It's just the time..

[Pete UK28]

As I said, that's not a great record, it's just the time. And I'm SURE it wasn't a ranked game and if it was, not against good players. And I bet it was with handicap/low difficulty. It's just the time..

i'm sorry, but does the topic say "highest gold/science on a ranked game with good players in it, preferably against jesus-christ-morte-the-god himself otherwise it doesn't count" or something like that? no, of course it wasn't on a multiplayer game, BUT it wasn't on low difficulty (what's the difference anyway?), i play only in emperor and diety.

why are you so aggressive with everyone?... any topic i see you, it's mostly trashtalk about how everybody else is so sh*t.
is it so hard to believe that other people can achieve something in this goddamn game?!

what is a "GREAT RECORD" then?... something you set up? obviously. actually i'm quite SURE.

[elthrasher]

It's obviously all but impossible to score great levels of science and gold in the latter years of a MP game. I don't think I've ever even hit the year 2000 in MP. Often my opponents quit if I get even a little bit ahead. Ooh, he got Masonry. There's no way I can win!

There was one game where a player lost all his cities and then hung around for a few turns anyway, so I didn't get the dominion victory right away. That was kind of funny. Just me vs. the crappy AI after I'd already taken out the human players. I didn't even realize that could happen until it did.

[MorteEterna]

i'm sorry, but does the topic say "highest gold/science on a ranked game with good players in it, preferably against jesus-christ-morte-the-god himself otherwise it doesn't count" or something like that? no, of course it wasn't on a multiplayer game, BUT it wasn't on low difficulty (what's the difference anyway?), i play only in emperor and diety.

why are you so aggressive with everyone?... any topic i see you, it's mostly trashtalk about how everybody else is so sh*t.
is it so hard to believe that other people can achieve something in this goddamn game?!

what is a "GREAT RECORD" then?... something you set up? obviously. actually i'm quite SURE.

No, it was because you just came here with saying 2004738674689k/turn just like a huge record.. I have done my recors in MP if you want to know, and it's because I'm mostly bored about some liars, not you, but some posts just make me doing this.. If it was like 2095 AD it would be only on the time you got.

[Poida12]

This thread was not designed for trash talk, i just wanted to know the restraints of the game - to see what was possible. Best way to do that is to ask others about their experiences and records. Please don't look at this as a place to boast how great you are or to put down others. Think of this like the mathematician who sits down to work out how many possible moves there are in chess...just to find out. Not to brag he did it first or better than anyone else. (I suck at maths though so i don't even know if you can actually do that :P) This is like the threads about the game of the week comparing notes to work out the fastest possible way to win. Except we are trying to work out the upper limits of science and gold. So please feel free to tell us all your experiences but can the trash talk.

[Frelinder]

165 000 beakers/turn and 270 000 gold/turn in year 2098. Was using the Chinese.

Whith the amaricans the gold number would be trippled..

*cheers*