After getting FO3 and being owned by it I have to say its everythign BS should have been RPG element wise.
I find BS sandbox design boring the pacing bad and I find the balances worse.... Not saying BS is a bad game but just not the excellent game it could have been.
Anyone else play Fo3 and find BS to really be a simplified mess?
Bioshock is not an RPG so they are completely different types of games, Bioshock's story was far superior and the gameplay was a different style so it doesn't really match up.
Also there is already a FO3 thread running that this could have been added to easily.
Actually BS is a FPS RPG and the worst type it tries so hard to be something its not it gains damage from it.Originally Posted by FtRapture
In core mechanics they are the same game type all but for level/map progression, everythign is the same is just plasmids and adam are not equipment, items skill.
BS fails on many levels but AI is horrible FO3 has better AI...but it still needs to be refined more.... FO3's implementation of location damage is a god send to FPSs, BSs is just unbalanced.
PS: FO3 has the better story and plot by a mile..... BS dose have better voice work but they have much less of it... and still have not fixed the lip syncing to subtitles.... if anything both are rushed and unfinished but BS suffers much more from it.
Maybe some minor RPG elements however the big ones that define an RPG are just not present. Can you create a character, class, race, gender, anything?? no you are Jack it is a shooter not a Role Playing Game. The only real decision you make is to harvest the LS. It may have some RPG elements such as non linear gameplay the ability to heal yourself but seriously at its core all that does is improve what a great shooter it is.
It is great that you prefer FO3 it is a fun game, but in its own way not comparable to Bioshock at all that is just my opinion. Bioshock is the best game I have played however I suppose that is why I am here and not on the Bethesda forums.
Bah they are both FPS RPGS(dose system shock sound familiar :P) altho one dose not shun the RPG side and break itself because of it.
BS is still broken and unbalanced even with the patch waiting on them to finish it.....looks like they never will.... if they released the SDK so people could mod and fix the game I'd have alot more respect for them but BS was a game that did well but was rushed and never finished.
edit
I gave up on the forms here for the most part when the darkness was not ported to PC, BS left unfinished no SDK... On the FO3 forms on and off mostly building up ideas to toy with when the constructive kit comes out.
Last edited by ZippyDSMlee; 11-10-2008 at 07:18 AM.
It's always laughable to see the posts lauding the newest game and bashing BioShock.
It's all obviously subjective, but glancing at Metacritic shows that, based on the reviews of dozens and dozens of professonal game critics, they feel BioShock is a better overal game experience than Fallout 3.
The bottom line is that both are excellent games in their own right. And both have their strengths and their drawbacks. Saying one is far superior to the other overall is rather pointless.
I totally agree, I got a glance at where this thread was heading and decided to just leave it be. Everyone likes different things so enjoy Fallout 3 it is a great game.
I will admit my fervor for dragging BS down with me and I will admit BS is above average but just that and only because it mixes enough adventure and FPS elements to not be to boring but my god the pacing is horrendous.
To gnaw on FO3 its got a major bug with disspearing NCPs, codecs and issues with the dotnet3 beta and a few other things but really I had more trouble running BS and getting it to work right. Lets face it BS is below average port but again if I am going to be a game nazi FO3 has locked keys but at least has more video options.
What really got me for BS is its simply not System Shock nor in the vain of system shock if the AI was more intelligent and the pacing (to many items all over the place making the game dirt easy with no death penalty) sure if you can ignore the flaws BS is a great game...but some people drink to much and smoke pot to forge the bad as well...oh sht...I am talking out mew arse again. :P
If BS had these it would be better than FO3
Death penalty
Lesser items on hard
Buying mods to stack in any 3 ways.
Balancing equipable plasmids and damages of both plasmids and weapons and location damage.
AI more like SS2/Far cry/Fear/Dark Messiah less like Jericho/Doom/....
Yes I know I am being a bit pissy on BS but would it not be an awesome game if they finished the polishing and not rushed so damn much?
Also IMO gameplay wise Call of Cuthlu and Dark messiah are far superior BS is a run of the mill shooter with slightly above average level layout and a hub level design with 20ish "weapons" to play with, it snot bad but from my view point a step back in over all FPS design not for the story,setting or implementation of weapons and equipment but for pacing and polish issues that just do not match what the title has raked in.....
Do forgive me on my insanity on BS(well not in general..I am insane after all) I felt and still feel betrayed by them turning the SS brand(yes I am ware they do nto own it but you get the point) into well..BS.....
Anyone play Far cry 2? Its got alot of nice implementations in it! I was surprised I was sure I would go into full game nazi mode and hate on it.... 0-o and still BS remains a demon trud that died in my rear >< I swear I need to kill it some day >>
I no longer 'trust' the reviews that the 'experts' of video gaming write about. I think most are highly biased. I think XPlay is the only show/articles I read and take into consideration whether a game is good or not.
When I want reviews on a game I go straight to the source, the gamers. If the core gaming community does not like a game then I know to stay away from buying it and just rent it.
As mentioned in another thread there are two types of people that like BS over any other video game ever conceived by man. They are the ones that do not care what BS does wrong and those that do not know at all.
What many people have said when they Bash BS is that it's not the product that it was all hyped up to be. BS is very shallow compared to all the talk by Ken and other devs before the product was released. Another problem is PC Gamer made BS sound like it was going to blow SS2 out of the water and that isn't the case at all.
I think BS is a good game and it has replayability but without support from the developers modding will not occur.
Modding allows three things.
1. Stronger Fan Base (Strengthens forum discussion)
2. More PR
3. More (Custom) Replayability
These forums will dry up because many things in BS have already been talked about and discussed and people run out of things to talk about that are interesting.
theyre uncomparable. ones an rpg, ones not. theyre both fantastic.
i think fallout is more replayable though.
Thats what the devs want tho a rush in talk then a discardation of traffic as so a new game can be discussed, it seems to be they want a limited window of discussion over a tile and then to forget about it because they do not have the time to do anything more to the project and just want to move on..its like one bad relationship after another not matter how solid it as they end it to fast to move on to get another project out to stay in business in these hedonistic times of greed and profit...
No BS is a lite FPS RPG its just has to much in it and its the bastard heir to SS2 these just for it into the FPS RPG category but it is more of an adventure/sandbox title but truthfully even as that its still lacking and unpolished.
The skill and time took to do the FO3 gameplay implementations are far more worthy of note than the hacked together and rushed implementations of BS...
All I am saying is BS would have been much more than just above average if they took the time to finish it.
I'm not certain, but I think we discussed modding in another thread, no?
In a nutshell, I've been gaming since the dawn of video games. And that means about 25 years of fantastic, classic games before the term "mod" was even conceived.
idk want to seem rude going back and forth about this, but i really didnt find any rpg elements in bioshock. yes, you can go back to a previous level, and yes there's different endings but thats about as close as it gets to rpg.
You can 'build' your character through gene tonics to make them stronger in certain areas of skill and you can research enemies to get bonuses.
The only mods I know of are configuration/balance mods which are nice but more could still be done.I'm not certain, but I think we discussed modding in another thread, no?
In a nutshell, I've been gaming since the dawn of video games. And that means about 25 years of fantastic, classic games before the term "mod" was even conceived.
The term 'mod' for video games dates back to arcade game cabinets when hard core geeks switched out circuitry to change the graphics and sounds inside the game to make the game different surely that was around your time..?
Are you talking about software based/engine modding? Wolf3D back in 1992 was modded not long after its shareware release and is still modded today. Thanks to the Doom II Engine Wolf3D has literally hundreds more fan missions that hardcore Wolf fans still play today.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...oninternet.jpg
and i can make my own armor on halo 3......
Building your characters strengths through Tonics is totally different than the armour system in Halo 3. Why are you comparing the two?
In Halo 3 Armour is purely for appearance, they don't add anything special to you character stat wise. Using Tonics on the other hand can increase stats with certain things. Eg, you could build your character to be purely melee and max out damage/speed with melee.
I'm sorry if there has been a misunderstanding here.
Bioshock and Fallout 3 are completely different games. The only thing I would take from Fallout and implement into Bioshock is that your choices have a bigger impact on the outcome. One of the few things I did not like about Bioshock was regardless of what you did throughout the game, the ending was relatively the same. On the other side I felt that Fallout was too point based and RPG/board game'ish for me. Whichever you prefer, it just comes down to taste.
EDIT: I love the pic FtRapture
i was never comparing the two, thats how it all got started. because i stated that i think bioshock is nothing like an rpg and fallout 3 is, but i apparently was wrong and needed to be corrected.
i guaruntee you all i can find similarities or elemtents of an rpg game in any game, but that doesnt make it an rpg.... or "light rpg"
When Ken Levine came out and said what Bioshock was he stated it was going to be a Emergent Action, Horror RPG. PC Gamer also stated in its lengthy review of BS that it was an FPS RPG. Now I agree that it is not an RPG atleast by my standards but the gaming industry seems to label it as an FPS RPG. That is why I said you can 'build' your character through gene tonics which is what I think PC Gamer and Gamespot etc. are looking to put it in the FPS RPG category. I was not trying to be rude or correct you at all.
Well since we are quoting Ken Levine.
Patrick: Just to clarify, because it's been floating around and has been debated in different circles, what genre is BioShock, for the record?
Ken Levine: First-person shooter.
http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/.../799226p5.html
Ken Levine: The core thing is that we came back from E3 and we sort of got a lot of feedback on the game: "Oh! It's a RPG, it's an adventure game. It's a dessert topping." And you know, that's a problem. When you try to innovate you get that. When people see something new they don't know what to make out of it. But our goal with BioShock is really to make people re-consider, re-imagine, and redefine what a first-person shooter can be.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/733/733157p1.html
Last edited by FtRapture; 11-12-2008 at 09:36 AM.
I do admit FO3 has very similar themes to BS
thats why im buying it lol i love end of the world type games with story line you can have an influence on.
I swear they played on bioshock then made fallout lol
Fallout 3 is better than Bioshock that is funny. I am over half though Bioshock I have had no problems with the game. I played FO3 for 30 mins it crashed. On Bethesda everybody is having problems with crashing and freezing. Some had to send thier PS3 to get fix because of this game. Needless to say FO3 is going back to Gamestop ASAP. Bethesda said they are not sure if they will release a patch for fix the problems. They did for the PC version but not for the PS3 or Xbox360.
THANK YOU FOR THE PATCH 2K.
Wait. You are saying a NEW GAME is better than an almost Two-Year-Old Game? It's not which one is better here. Of course FO3 has some things Bioshock should. It's called progress.
Thats like saying Jericho or Haze is better because its newer no I am focusing solely on the implementations and balances in the game.
Now I'll give you I bought into the RPG/SS2 hype of BS before they touted it as a "shooter" a few months before launch so my distaste with the game is aggravated.
Hell I have put 50 hours into FO3 and am rather dispointed it the rushed development of it the bugs and balance issues are a joke but even despite that there is enough there to keep me entertained and even more so since I can edit it with fomm and once they release the official editor it wont be gathering dust since I wont be fed up with the lulzy designs as I can tweak and amke new all want.
As for bugs I have had about as may issues with both wanting to crash but FO3 wins on in game bugs(getting stuck on rocks ocne every 8 hours,missing NCPs,clipping issues) but its also 10 items bigger so I'l give them just a tad bit more slack also despite a few keys being locked it dose not have mouse issues like most console focused UE3 games have.
Saddest of all.....I cannot really tell which has the better comabt AI ...... sure the FO3 AI can do alot more even if you take the BS heal/water scripts but with sneaking and combat...the AI....well...... is dumb.........
Last edited by ZippyDSMlee; 11-27-2008 at 04:14 AM.
I am saying Bioshock is better than FO3. I juts get Bioshock for the Ps3 last month.
After reading all of these comments, it seems to me that saying another game is better than the game that the forum you are posting on is about, is like jumping in a tank full of angry sharks.
But in all seriousness, FO3 is great (and I haven't played it), but nothing you can say or will say will ever change the minds of the people on this forum think of Bioshock.
I hear FO3 plays like Oblivion. I hated Oblivion, I just couldn't get interested in it. But BioShock always has you sucked in, you wanna found out what is going to happen next. Its like a good game of Clue.
***
~~~Fallout 3~~~
Character Customization
The whole point of full customization would be the 'full' word. Fallout 3 makes it look like you get full customization, and then limits it enough to bother some people (like me). Especially with the hair styles, when you have a certain hairstyle in mind for a character, and there isn't even a hairstyle close to it, it kind of feels like it lets you down. More eye colors would be nice too. Yes, the game is trying to be realistic, despite the fact that nuclear radiation has completely converted the planet into a barren wasteland, filled with raiders and irradiated beasts from hell (not so realistic eh?).
Character
You do not exist. Despite what the game may or may not suggest, you are a walking ghost; an invisible wall people talk to regarding specific quests that they want you to complete (because they're often too lazy to do it themselves). I can only assume that the residents of the world would live a life full of regrets and die horrible deaths if you hadn't walked by to do their bidden. If you put your stats right, you become God-Child and can do basically anything you want, including getting your house early in the game. In my opinion it's not much of an accomplishment if you get something like a house just by hitting a button, but whatever.
Immersion
Well, where can I start here? The game is flawed in so many ways that it's like they had an idea, started with it, then forgot the finer details.
1.Your father randomly leaves the vault. This part is okay, and doesn't hurt the game.
2.The Overseer, a man who strikes me as a hardened veteran randomly becomes a homicidal maniac? This semi-hurts the game.
3.Radroaches infest all of the Vault, which means they bypassed countless of guards and came in through multiple entrances (which begs the question, how did this vault save anyone from a nuclear event if anything can get inside it?)
4.Guards will chase after radroaches and ignore you even if you hit them (only really tested once, may have been a glitch).
5.People don't seem to care if you're wearing a hockey mask or a big yellow chemical suit. They won't comment on either.
6.Some random person up in a saloon decides to endow you with the quest of blowing up the city. Now, there's a few things wrong with this picture.
I highly doubt the guy took the time to check out every resident of the city. Him and his employer has no interest in Megaton. Therefore he should not have automatically assumed you weren't a resident. Also, what kind of idiot asks a random person to blow up the city he's sitting in, especially in a saloon surrounded by people who live there? That's like asking the entire city to get up and kill the son of a ---. Anyway, no one does, they ignore it. And you can seemingly kill the man, gain good karma and no one cares. Which begs the question; DID the rest of the saloon know what the man planned, and if so, they just chose not to deal with the man in hopes that a random person would come by to kill him?
There's also another thing wrong with it. It's obvious that the man works for someone, not for himself. So there's little point in killing him or telling him to leave. I would much rather ask him who he works for, where his employer is, and how many guards/mercenaries/henchman the man has. Of course, I don't seem to get these speech options (but my speech level wasn't too terribly high at the time either, so if you can get this info from him, please let me know).
Other
I don't know what it is with this game, but I had almost no problem restarting my character, making it proper for the certain quests (like disarming the bomb in Megaton), and just kind of walking throughout the rest of the game without much difficulty (up to a certain point, I haven't gotten too terribly far, but I started losing interest in the game). Yes, I've died a couple times and yes I'm only on Normal. I'll try it later on Hard mode with revised stats (for a later quest too), and see what happens.
All I'm saying is that Fallout 3 is a great game that hurts itself in so many ways. I'm guessing it's a masochist, but that might be part of it's charm. For fun I'd say Bioshock is better. For picking apart detail after detail, and finding flaw after flaw, while trying not to laugh at some of the dialogue, Fallout 3 is for you. I'm a virgo, I like analyzing things, so FO3 does have some appeal to me. But, I wouldn't say it's better than Bioshock (in any way).
As this person says. I play both and Fallout is replayable but my preference is BioShock by miles. It's way in front of any other games I've played.
yea, rpg, fps. Totally different. It's like comparing BioShock and World of Warcraft, i've tried and it just can't be done. Both great games tho
well, every man for his own
200th post! w00t!
I'm should get Fallout 3 for Christmas so I should know soon which way to lean in this discussion. Though like some people said, there are quite different in the ways that Bioshock has a completed storyline whereas Fallout 3 is open so that you can choose how you play the game. Sure, Bioshock had the harvest/save choice that changed the ending, but that wasn't the biggest selling point. The main thing for Bioshock was that it was the game with the most dynamic AI of the time. I know there are games like Gears of War 2 and Left 4 Dead that have better AI now, but for the time Bioshock was a revolution. Games like Halo 1 and 2 got boring after a while because it was like "oh no look out here comes the scripted guy that comes out of nowhere", but for Bioshock, sure there were some things scripted but some stuff is still new to me, and I'm playing the game for the 11th time.
Last edited by Cyber999; 12-05-2008 at 11:03 AM.
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