I like my new Chinese strategy. Its different from yours and describe quite good how to expand fast..
I know you didn't like it that much but everyone that read strategies probably going to make changes in them to suit their playstyle and also depending on how the game develops (opponent, rushers or not, what the map look like)
I think it also have a diferent twist with the backfilling of techs..
If you just edit it perhaps putting in it ways to defend against rushers or other things, then I could put in the archive. However, I try to put here not 10 strategies but the best ones, perhaps 3 as maximum, then I will see if it is ok for you. However, I think rushing the library is a waste of gold counting there could be rushers.Originally Posted by Frelinder
I like my new Chinese strategy. Its different from yours and describe quite good how to expand fast..
I know you didn't like it that much but everyone that read strategies probably going to make changes in them to suit their playstyle and also depending on how the game develops (opponent, rushers or not, what the map look like)
I think it also have a diferent twist with the backfilling of techs..
Morte if I recall correctly you didn't say much about defending rushers on your strategy either...
Right.. well I have changed a few small bits in it..
However I still think its good enough pretty much as it is.
Your rush horse attack tactic is very good, but thats one way to start with the Chinese. And a good description of how to do an early rush.
Mine tactic is a good description on how to do an fast early expansion and thats another way of starting with Chinese. Also it takes up how to take advantage of backfilling.
Last edited by Frelinder; 12-02-2008 at 12:26 PM.
Well, if you see my strategies, like romans, chinese, americans, arabs, aztecs, etc, if there aren't ways to stop rushers, there are ways to kill rushers, that's why. I asked him that because building only few warriors before expanding is really risky and rushing a library could be a waste of time if they conquer that city. I prefer instead to expand more, in fact I can have the same science, and later on I spend less hammers for the library.
PS: My strategy is not only about rushing, that's what I wanted to say a lot of times. That's a good thing to do, but if I don't have the gold perhaps, I change strategy, and the basic strategy is to expand fast using the horsemen as defence if needed.
yup, that strat has you settling 4 cities early, and hopefully taking a few enemy capitols early as well, plus it does talk about defenses. he explicitly states you should get bronze working and build armies. It's not just a horseman rushing strategy, that's just a way to be agressive and dominate the map, then building bunches of cities and backfilling once you get the 1/2 cost libraries bonus.
Despite the bulk of this strategy being after you build those horseman in the first 12 turns or so, I guess it'll always be known as the "Chinese Horesman Rush"
-frelinder's strat is intresting, and shows what's possible, and i think it's worthy of the archive, just not a realistic strat for MP. Don't put mine in there though, because I'm not gonna use that strat anymore, it's just not agressive enough for my tastes.
Hehe.. well it seems that you got an hangup on the library thing..
My strategy don't need the library. I just added that almost last that thats an optional thing to build, but only if you have Alot of gold. Otherwise you nee the gold for other more important things (defence and further expansion)
Also yes Morte you stress building archers as fast as possible. though you don't start research Bronze untill you have settled your secon city. (thats after 17-18 turns) then it takes a few turns research it. after that you have to hammer your archers. this means you wan't have protection untill after 22 turns earliest. and 5-6 turns more if wanting an army in your city.
So your Chinese strategy is also whithout protection untill 22-24 turns into the game. So what if you are out roaming with your horses to attack a nearby city and then another opponent attack your capital? You only have one warrior and your horses is formed to an army quite early so you don't have good scouts that will tell you if someone is making a move at you.
Mine strategy have 3 warriors so thats 3 scouts. I can pretty much control all my boarders and prepare/stop my expansion and rush units if someone comes at me.
I'm not saying mine strategy is flawless because its not. But every strategy have its downsides and upsides.
Don't get me wrong here. I think Mortes strategy is realy good. But here is another thing.yup, that strat has you settling 4 cities early, and hopefully taking a few enemy capitols early as well, plus it does talk about defenses. he explicitly states you should get bronze working and build armies. It's not just a horseman rushing strategy, that's just a way to be agressive and dominate the map, then building bunches of cities and backfilling once you get the 1/2 cost libraries bonus.
Despite the bulk of this strategy being after you build those horseman in the first 12 turns or so, I guess it'll always be known as the "Chinese Horesman Rush"
-frelinder's strat is intresting, and shows what's possible, and i think it's worthy of the archive, just not a realistic strat for MP. Don't put mine in there though, because I'm not gonna use that strat anymore, it's just not agressive enough for my tastes.
- Yes he got 4 cities... but not early. he don't expand further untill he have researched bronzeworking and build his archers so he wan't have 4 cities untill after 26-28 turns. And thats if he rushes the sttler (pay gold for them) If hammering them after he have hammered all his archer add 5 turns to this.
4 cities after 30 turns... Not so fast in my opinion..
And thanks Grayson.. I know my strategy will not work to the fullest many times. But when you can use it its a very strong strategy. And mostly its a good explanation on how to expand fast..
What are you talking about? In my strategy, that I should edit, I have 4-5 cities in like 25 turns if I want, and I have protection. If I see rushers, I start building more warriors and go for bronze working normally (zulu). In other case, I have defences, because the HORSEMEN ARMY is better than a defence. In fact, I haven't lost many games in that way because the horsemen army is A DEFENCE if I see enemies. I build units if needed, I don't build if not needed. Then, in 30 turns I have 15 cities normally, or in 35-40 turns. Maybe you weren't talking about my strategy.Don't get me wrong here. I think Mortes strategy is realy good. But here is another thing.
- Yes he got 4 cities... but not early. he don't expand further untill he have researched bronzeworking and build his archers so he wan't have 4 cities untill after 26-28 turns. And thats if he rushes the sttler (pay gold for them) If hammering them after he have hammered all his archer add 5 turns to this.
4 cities after 30 turns... Not so fast in my opinion..
And thanks Grayson.. I know my strategy will not work to the fullest many times. But when you can use it its a very strong strategy. And mostly its a good explanation on how to expand fast..
At least, I talked about how I expand fast, without editing it.
I think in your way, you can't have as much science as I have, in every case if you rush the library you wouldn't have more cities than me. If you have 1 city with 3 population and rush a library for 80 gold, you get 12 science.
If I have 2 cities with 3 population to use, I rush two settlers in my way, going to 2 pop (2+2) and I get two new cities (+3+3). Then, I would have the same and I can expand more than you in this way.
*sighs* here you go again.. How is it possible with your strategy to:
- spend workers on researching horseriding and Bronzeworking early.
- Build an horsemen army.
- Build alot of archers.
- And still expand faster then in my strategy???
Mine strategy totaly focus on expanding and don't spend workers on armies and teching early. Except the 3 warriors.
And stop talking about the library. Thats not what my strategy is about. It says specifically ONLY NEED 80 GP for rushing 2 settlers. The Library is optional if you have ALOT! of gold.
So Why do I even mention a library?
- Because at this point having one is not bad. First of all it costs only 80 gp and you already have 5 cities (rush the library the library right before getting into medival) After getting irrigation you will have pop 4 in your library city and can work 4 watertiles. thats 16 beakers/turn from only one city.
And why is this good at this point?
- Well at this point yafter you have had all workers on water in order to get Irrigation fast you need to switch and put most of them on grow and forest. Building archers for defence and hammer settlers and grow in your 6 cities. So you can't have many workers on water after the rush to irrigation. But with 1 library city that puts out 16 beakers and a few more other pop working water you still can put out 20-26 beakers/turn.
Do you understand this or do I have to explain it further?
Now you say you work bronze and build archers IF you see a rusher and need defence.
Well thats what I can do with mine strategy too. If i see a rusher. Stop expanding and switch to defencive mode. *shrugs*
And if I'm not totaly wrong here I'm guessing that you build your horsemen army to use it agressiv. That means being atleast 2-3 turns away from capital. Or even more turns. So what is defending your capital? your warrior?
What do you then use as scouts? If not having warriors at your boarders as lookouts you wan't be able to spot your enemy untill he shows up at your doorstep. Then you can try defending with your 1 warrior and not untill 2-3 turns later you will get your horsemen army back. he could rush an archer in your city so your horsmenarmy that get back kill his archer but the turn after that his warrior/horsemen army kill your horsemen army..
Ore are you rushing your horsemen army and then sit with it in capital for 10 turns as defence?
All I edited in my strategy was 6 turns instead of 5 for building 3 warriors (depending on forest-tiles)
And that mine strategy is not recommended if you feel threatened early or if playing rushers..
Read my strategy again.. I think you are missing the point with it.
4 cities in 30 turns, that's faster than most, I promise you.Don't get me wrong here. I think Mortes strategy is realy good. But here is another thing.
- Yes he got 4 cities... but not early. he don't expand further untill he have researched bronzeworking and build his archers so he wan't have 4 cities untill after 26-28 turns. And thats if he rushes the sttler (pay gold for them) If hammering them after he have hammered all his archer add 5 turns to this.
4 cities after 30 turns... Not so fast in my opinion..
And thanks Grayson.. I know my strategy will not work to the fullest many times. But when you can use it its a very strong strategy. And mostly its a good explanation on how to expand fast..
The horseman army usually takes an enemy AI capitol in my games, which usually leaves it with a population of 4 or 5 after 30 turns.
Yea. I like the rushhorse strategy too. I always play on Deity though so taking over AIs capital wan't always work here unless you start close to the AI. otherwise he have an archerarmy in Capital.
I don't doubt thats faster then most. (4 cities by 30 turns) But its a huge diference between in having 4 cities at 30 turns and 6 cities in 22-24 turns(with reaching irrigation first)
Oh.. And Morte. if you don't wanna put in my strategy you don't have too. Its out there for people to see it and atleast a few seems to like it. if not all of it atleast bits and parts of it..
*cheers*
Maybe I will add it, however you have just to wait. I should edit some things first then I can do other things.
I thought your strategy was unique and interesting Frelinder. I like how you took advantage of the backfilling. It's definetely worthy of the archive. It also has me thinking up an entire strategy based around backfilling.
Cool.. Thanks mate
I haven't seen an Indian strategy yet so I am in the process of writing one up to add to this.
Ok, However, if nobody like that it's not really needed. It's like a detail however tell me when you have posted it and I can add it.
these strategies are really helpful!
Thanks.
Are you on x360?
However, are there new strategies that you would put here? Obviously helpful.
yes, i am on 360.
Then, I should know you. Are you from florida?
LOL,
are we putting 2 and 2 together now?
Morte, you know you guys have met. A reunion for the ages!!
What you mean? I think I remember him, but maybe if I tell you anymore he would become upset if I know who he is. However I'm italian if you didn't remind.LOL,
are we putting 2 and 2 together now?
Morte, you know you guys have met. A reunion for the ages!!
Does the gamertag ELITE B MAN ring a bell, mxzx3?
Why this new account? However, I think I won't change the name on the strategies because it was the other one.
I think this needs to go up
New strategies?
Why isn't this stickied??
I know before British Demon's was stickied, but wasn't updated much after a while. then we had two strategy archives.
Now it's clear that this is the definetive one.
Morte, there are some floating strategies that are decent but not up here, and might be good for an archive. I know you place some standards on the archive, and I think that's a good thing. I know there's some zulu, indian, spanish strats that aren't in your archive that maybe worthy of posting, especially over some of the current ones in there. (not yours morte, I like almost all of those. not to call anyone out, but the french strats are kinda lower level strategies, and a few others are in the same category in my opionion.)
I'm currently writing up an Indian strategy that maybe worthy, even though they are one of the worst civs. I created an account just to play as the indians, just to challenge myself. I'm almost done drafting it and will be posting it. Maybe it'll be worthy.
But maybe you can add a section to your strategy archive with all the less than good strats and incomplete strats.
Just some thoughts.
but mods, please sticky this thread, it's very helpful
here are some of the threads that I mentioned that maybe be ok for the archive or at least worthy of mention.
India Strat by Gamesb8
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21984
Spanish Strat by Rawchief
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...ghlight=armada
Zulu Strat by Chuckdelight
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...highlight=impi
this is just to name a few, there are more that are recent that maybe ok as well.
I think giving a zulu strategy like that isn't helpful but would ruin the game. Maybe we need a zulu strategy with only taking villages and expanding..
PS: I added the indian strategy, later on I will look the spanish one
This forum helps newbies a ton... I frequent it for ideas and adapt them to my current game..... for all those who are more well versed in the game.. please keep sharing your skills & ideas!!!
Thanks for some great info in here, I'm going to be bookmarking this one!
I read a lot about strategies, tips, etc. As someone new to the whole CIV games, this one is my first reall attempt. I enjoy the game, but I quickly found that going from Single player to Multi, I didn't know all that much. I was fortunate enough to hook up with a couple of guys that really helped. The various threads on her are extremely helpful as well. And while I have not posted much, I do appreciate anyone who has taken the time to publicize some various strategies to use. They really do help. So...............
Thanks!
I think this needs to be up
This deserves a bump!
Also here's a random tip that can save you a few turns early game! =P When you're exploring with warriors a good way to avoid running into dead ends / the coast is to extend the map upwards. On 360 you do this with the right trigger. When you do this you're able to see if the adjacent tiles to you are shoreline. It's not amazingly useful, but in the early game where every step and goodie / barb hut counts, knowing where the coast is and saving yourself a turn or two can really make the difference between getting that free settler, and getting currency / banking. This tip works especially well when you encounter those single tile areas of land that randomly shoot out of the continent and you're not sure if it links to another area of land, or if it just suddenly ends.
Up
Pm me for new strategies, I will add them when I have time
this LITTLE edge could have been so big in a mp game as aztecs yesterday. my capital was on a t shaped peninsula. my first 2 warriors hit dead ends left and right. i found the outlet south but lost the first 2 barb huts to an enemy jumping in after my first attacks. i never saw them. i was delayed another 15-20 turns before i got my second city and it was game over. i will be panning back the map from now on.
what happened to the zulu? no strat?
they could be like the japs or spanish,, with their fast growing cities, and 50 gold production
Morte,
Would it be possible for you to have a look at the Spanish, and produce a strategy for them? Frelinder's guide seems to take us into the late game with an assumption that we'll make it there in one piece ;-)
I know they aren't your favorite Civ, but I'd love to hear your take on them. You put more of a military spin on your strategies, which is realistic given the multiplayer environment.
My personal reasons for loving the Spanish:
-- Horsemen/Caravans becoming moneymaking machines, as exploration bonuses are huge.
-- Naval support for early game units provides an interesting spin on the early game.
-- I've always sort of hated Galleys .. their slow speed and "throwaway" nature makes me want to wait until navigation for sending out boats.
-- Control of the seas can be a massive advantage, as long as your inland cities aren't getting rolled.
-- Naval support is often overlooked as a valuable defensive tool.
Anyhow, maybe play a few games as Spanish and see if you get any new ideas about them.
Last edited by Strief; 02-09-2009 at 08:50 AM.
I'll write up an MP strategy with the spanish if morte doesn't want to.
I'm currently the highest ranked h2h spanish player on Xbox, and have used them with a high success rate on FFA (which I just started climbing recently). I do things semi-differently than what's posted in Frelinder's strat, but the basics of his strategy are sound.
I'll probably have it up in a few days, just takes a little bit to get new strategies organized.
Yea I'm not playing MP. (just a couple of games) So my strategy is written mostly for SP and with an little twist at the end with the building Internet thingBut it would be great if you could write one more suitable for MP Grayson. And I would defently try an MP game out just to see how it works
*cheers*
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote