Types of civilizations

[Hellogoodbye123]

I think theirs some civilizations that have more advantage, over others....their not balanced....

theirs some made for beginners, and some for proffesionals.......but it doesnt mean that if you use them that u r a beginner or pro.....am just saying..

like i consider my self kinda middle, a little beginner....but i know my stuff...

...i used the zulu, rushed a capital like in 5 turns...and since that, i was winning at everything.....no one was near me....i got almost all the barbs and huts, i got atlantis first,..and at one time i was like at 24 techs and others at 12 techs.....their really easy to use....

but civs like the mongols, the russians, the french, the indians, were it takes good players to use because their bonuses arent as good as having:

- Half cost wonders
- +1 population
- knowledge of monarchy or navigation
- Rush units at half price
- start with a free wonder
- starting with a actual govenrment other than despotism
- double naval support

what am saying is that their bonuses are other civs sidelines bonuses....and that it takes more work to win, like russians dont get any victory bonuses, just a bunch of half price things, and the mongols make barbs join their civ, instead of getting mone and settler fgaster.....or like pottery, that inst as useful to some....

i just think they made some civs easier to use than others....

[MorteEterna]

I think theirs some civilizations that have more advantage, over others....their not balanced....

theirs some made for beginners, and some for proffesionals.......but it doesnt mean that if you use them that u r a beginner or pro.....am just saying..

like i consider my self kinda middle, a little beginner....but i know my stuff...

...i used the zulu, rushed a capital like in 5 turns...and since that, i was winning at everything.....no one was near me....i got almost all the barbs and huts, i got atlantis first,..and at one time i was like at 24 techs and others at 12 techs.....their really easy to use....

but civs like the mongols, the russians, the french, the indians, were it takes good players to use because their bonuses arent as good as having:

- Half cost wonders
- +1 population
- knowledge of monarchy or navigation
- Rush units at half price
- start with a free wonder
- starting with a actual govenrment other than despotism
- double naval support

what am saying is that their bonuses are other civs sidelines bonuses....and that it takes more work to win, like russians dont get any victory bonuses, just a bunch of half price things, and the mongols make barbs join their civ, instead of getting mone and settler fgaster.....or like pottery, that inst as useful to some....

i just think they made some civs easier to use than others....

Are you kidding me? Monarchy and Navigation huge bonuses? I could beat these bonuses, as starting with a free wonder or double naval support with no problems. You still consider monarchy huge, do you know that's only +2 culture per population instead of +1, while democracy works for every city and that's 100 times better. Navigation, huge bonus??? Religion is 100 times better, again.

However, there are some civs better than others, some civs faster than others, and others not funny and no abilities to win. I don't find fun with mongols for example.

[Hellogoodbye123]

they are because for others they cant get the free person, or a free galleon....

[MorteEterna]

they are because for others they cant get the free person, or a free galleon....

So? You said monarchy and navigation instead of republic that is obviously better. Trading post and 1 pop price settlers is really good. Republic and Democracy are the best governments, others aren't as good as these. Only fundamentalism if you can have it fast or until industrial era.

Monarchy is a waste of time, if you use it instead of democracy, you haven't understood many things about how to use advantages and disadvantages.

[Hellogoodbye123]

So? You said monarchy and navigation instead of republic that is obviously better. Trading post and 1 pop price settlers is really good. Republic and Democracy are the best governments, others aren't as good as these. Only fundamentalism if you can have it fast or until industrial era.

Monarchy is a waste of time, if you use it instead of democracy, you haven't understood many things about how to use advantages and disadvantages.

well i said an actual government is better than despotism........dont you think

[MorteEterna]

well i said an actual government is better than despotism........dont you think

Yes, apart of few times maybe. But starting with monarchy isn't a huge bonus, in fact english aren't one of the best civ. Spanish aren't, too. But Romans are really good and greeks too, with republic and democracy

[Hellogoodbye123]

Yes, apart of few times maybe. But starting with monarchy isn't a huge bonus, in fact english aren't one of the best civ. Spanish aren't, too. But Romans are really good and greeks too, with republic and democracy

they arent, but with double naval support and a couple battleshipd fleets they can take out anything even if warrior attack you...so that helps for domination....


...and the spanish with a galleon helps for atlantis, which is for a tech race,

am not saying this are the the best candidates, but it atleast guides them through....

..what about the other bonuses.....huh..

[MorteEterna]

they arent, but with double naval support and a couple battleshipd fleets they can take out anything even if warrior attack you...so that helps for domination....


...and the spanish with a galleon helps for atlantis, which is for a tech race,

am not saying this are the the best candidates, but it atleast guides them through....

..what about the other bonuses.....huh..

But you don't understand, you seem to start in modern era, you write nonsense things. English aren't a good civ to defend against good rushers until modern era and cruisers, battleships, etc. Don't say impossible things as strategies, they are only a domination civ if you can use them by using knights, and not early as many players say, that's useless. Paying 75 to be killed against a 30 hammers army.. While waiting for religion and samurai castle would mean having a huge attack.

There are a lot of bonuses better than which you have listed there.

[danthechan]

in the past when i get the bonus of choosing any government early i go with republic and then switch over to democracy when i research it. now i'm thinking the right play might be choosing communism to build wonders and buildings and then switch to democracy. a lot might hinge on how many cities i am going for.

[MorteEterna]

in the past when i get the bonus of choosing any government early i go with republic and then switch over to democracy when i research it. now i'm thinking the right play might be choosing communism to build wonders and buildings and then switch to democracy. a lot might hinge on how many cities i am going for.

In my opinion communism is good only few times. I have never used it, maybe 2 times each 300 games

However, communism could be good some times, but when you can produce more with democracy, for example when you have a little production, or when you need culture, democracy could be better.

[Hellogoodbye123]

In my opinion communism is good only few times. I have never used it, maybe 2 times each 300 games

However, communism could be good some times, but when you can produce more with democracy, for example when you have a little production, or when you need culture, democracy could be better.

i use communism to build the UN in like 3-5 turns

[Hellogoodbye123]

But you don't understand, you seem to start in modern era, you write nonsense things. English aren't a good civ to defend against good rushers until modern era and cruisers, battleships, etc. Don't say impossible things as strategies, they are only a domination civ if you can use them by using knights, and not early as many players say, that's useless. Paying 75 to be killed against a 30 hammers army.. While waiting for religion and samurai castle would mean having a huge attack.

There are a lot of bonuses better than which you have listed there.

i was just saying theirs easier civs to some, like the chinese, and zulu, and arabs, with their religion,.......

[Russian_Roulette]

Yes, apart of few times maybe. But starting with monarchy isn't a huge bonus, in fact english aren't one of the best civ. Spanish aren't, too. But Romans are really good and greeks too, with republic and democracy

Navigation is huge indeed. If you are going to talk about a civ or a bonus you should at least give it a try. The reason you say this or that civ is bad is that you win that civ easily, but the thing is you can easily win with and against any civ.

You play a very reduced number of civs, and you get to think those are the only civs that can be played, but you would be amazed of what some civs can do.

The thing that bugs me about your attitude is you pretend your word is the word of truth and you dont even feel the need to give any argument backing up your statements. If you havent played more than 3 times spain you could say "I believe spain is not so good" or "i get the feeling spain is not so strong" or something like that. Saying X civ is bad without arguments (and without actually playing them) is very arrogant.

[Russian_Roulette]

And about the topic I mostly agree that the civs are not very balanced. In my opinion there are a group of extremely good civs (china, zulu, arabs), there is another group of "average" civs in which I would put most of the civs (it could be divided into mid-up and mid-down civs, but the differences are not so big) and there is a group of bad civs which belongs exclusively to Russia.

[Hellogoodbye123]

Navigation is huge indeed. If you are going to talk about a civ or a bonus you should at least give it a try. The reason you say this or that civ is bad is that you win that civ easily, but the thing is you can easily win with and against any civ.

You play a very reduced number of civs, and you get to think those are the only civs that can be played, but you would be amazed of what some civs can do.

The thing that bugs me about your attitude is you pretend your word is the word of truth and you dont even feel the need to give any argument backing up your statements. If you havent played more than 3 times spain you could say "I believe spain is not so good" or "i get the feeling spain is not so strong" or something like that. Saying X civ is bad without arguments (and without actually playing them) is very arrogant.

I agree, ive never played with the indiands and i think they suck....lol but i think they are kinda good because they can switch to religion, and have no anarchy,...and then back to other goverments....

[MorteEterna]

Navigation is huge indeed. If you are going to talk about a civ or a bonus you should at least give it a try. The reason you say this or that civ is bad is that you win that civ easily, but the thing is you can easily win with and against any civ.

You play a very reduced number of civs, and you get to think those are the only civs that can be played, but you would be amazed of what some civs can do.

The thing that bugs me about your attitude is you pretend your word is the word of truth and you dont even feel the need to give any argument backing up your statements. If you havent played more than 3 times spain you could say "I believe spain is not so good" or "i get the feeling spain is not so strong" or something like that. Saying X civ is bad without arguments (and without actually playing them) is very arrogant.

If I don't try so much a civ, is that why trying it few times, and knowing they haven't good bonuses (the only one is navigation for spanish in my opinion), I wouldn't play them. And why to play them against zulu players while I could play funny with other civs? However, I can play with many civs, but I don't want to take so much risk until they continue to use zulu. I find funny to play romans or greeks, I haven't tried english yet or americans (only in a 2V2), I would be sure that the civ is enough good, enough fast, that can defend against rushers, etc..

And seriously, how could spanish stop zulu for example? Or arabs, aztecs, chinese..

[Hellogoodbye123]

If I don't try so much a civ, is that why trying it few times, and knowing they haven't good bonuses (the only one is navigation for spanish in my opinion), I wouldn't play them. And why to play them against zulu players while I could play funny with other civs? However, I can play with many civs, but I don't want to take so much risk until they continue to use zulu. I find funny to play romans or greeks, I haven't tried english yet or americans (only in a 2V2), I would be sure that the civ is enough good, enough fast, that can defend against rushers, etc..

And seriously, how could spanish stop zulu for example? Or arabs, aztecs, chinese..

Morte not everyone plays the zulu, so far i've seen like 2 and only one rushed me a long time i go, when i was a beginner.............

.....i see more the english, the american, greeks, the aztecs, than the zulu, and i've never played a arabs player......

[MorteEterna]

Morte not everyone plays the zulu, so far i've seen like 2 and only one rushed me a long time i go, when i was a beginner.............

.....i see more the english, the american, greeks, the aztecs, than the zulu, and i've never played a arabs player......

Arabs are difficult to use in fact, not as easy as they seem to be, but I see a lot of times zulu players, at least on x360. The first 40 players on h2h seem to be 25 zulu players. Maybe aztecs are coming, they are good in my opinion but a zulu could still win with luck (religion for example)

[Hellogoodbye123]

Arabs are difficult to use in fact, not as easy as they seem to be, but I see a lot of times zulu players, at least on x360. The first 40 players on h2h seem to be 25 zulu players. Maybe aztecs are coming, they are good in my opinion but a zulu could still win with luck (religion for example)

oh.....i play one ffa, never see arabs,....zulu very little...

[danthechan]

i see zulu, but not as much lately. i tried them recently and like them alot. not so much for the 2 movement, but for the 50% gold and fast growing cities. i did take madrid with the double movement but only because it was about 8 spaces away.

[Hellogoodbye123]

i see zulu, but not as much lately. i tried them recently and like them alot. not so much for the 2 movement, but for the 50% gold and fast growing cities. i did take madrid with the double movement but only because it was about 8 spaces away.

yeah i like them a lot too......i took the aztecs they were like 6-8 spaces away too....

i usually take over a city and i use that one as my capital, and in zimbabwe i build all the wonders....

[Russian_Roulette]

And seriously, how could spanish stop zulu for example? Or arabs, aztecs, chinese..

If you start next to Zulu you are done and it doesnt matter what civ you are.

Now, if they are not so near you can defend easily with archers. With other civs the real problem is that you can not expand and would be dificult to reach the 100 gold milestone. Spain has Navigation to expand easily to the islands and the double exploration gold gives you very good chances of getting 100 gold fast. So in my opinnion spain is one of the best civs against Zulu.

And you cannot be serious asking me how to win arabs, china aztecs or whatever civ, you only have to play better than the opponent.

Maybe I will write a strategy of spain here but I really encourage you to give them a try. In fact I have stoped playing them lately because I was winning as easily as the top civs, and it was boring.

[MorteEterna]

If you start next to Zulu you are done and it doesnt matter what civ you are.

Now, if they are not so near you can defend easily with archers. With other civs the real problem is that you can not expand and would be dificult to reach the 100 gold milestone. Spain has Navigation to expand easily to the islands and the double exploration gold gives you very good chances of getting 100 gold fast. So in my opinnion spain is one of the best civs against Zulu.

And you cannot be serious asking me how to win arabs, china aztecs or whatever civ, you only have to play better than the opponent.

Maybe I will write a strategy of spain here but I really encourage you to give them a try. In fact I have stoped playing them lately because I was winning as easily as the top civs, and it was boring.

No, it matters which civ I use. I have beaten maybe 100-200 times zulu players but I'm sure at least 1/2 were near me and I have beaten them. When I know they are zulu, and I know the strategy, that's not a problem for me. Against zulu, the best civ should be who can rush or expand more, but Spain isn't one of the best, simply a civ that if used as well could change the game, but that's difficult. Maybe I will try them, 2 cities on mainland and starting to build cities on islands.

[xbman22x]

No, it matters which civ I use. I have beaten maybe 100-200 times zulu players but I'm sure at least 1/2 were near me and I have beaten them. When I know they are zulu, and I know the strategy, that's not a problem for me. Against zulu, the best civ should be who can rush or expand more, but Spain isn't one of the best, simply a civ that if used as well could change the game, but that's difficult. Maybe I will try them, 2 cities on mainland and starting to build cities on islands.

i dont see what good it is to build cities on islands with the spanish. navigation can be gotten reletively fast with china or japan. and you still have to build a harbor for them to be effective, but the japanese get that for free. they are like the japs, but not as good,imo

[MorteEterna]

i dont see what good it is to build cities on islands with the spanish. navigation can be gotten reletively fast with china or japan. and you still have to build a harbor for them to be effective, but the japanese get that for free. they are like the japs, but not as good,imo

I know, and I would prefer obviously japan, china or greek. In the future if I feel that I could play spanish, I will, but I prefer japan or I could try to use again greeks

[danthechan]

i dont see what good it is to build cities on islands with the spanish. navigation can be gotten reletively fast with china or japan. and you still have to build a harbor for them to be effective, but the japanese get that for free. they are like the japs, but not as good,imo

the 1 advantage spain has over japan is the ability to get first choice of the islands if they get a galleon going early. if they can find that 2 whale, or whale/fish/dye island 1st it can be a big edge.

[Russian_Roulette]

i dont see what good it is to build cities on islands with the spanish. navigation can be gotten reletively fast with china or japan. and you still have to build a harbor for them to be effective, but the japanese get that for free. they are like the japs, but not as good,imo

Just find island with whale or at least fish. Its not very difficult and those cities will grow easily and be considerably good, not to mention the fact that you dont need to defend them (at least for some time). Whale is way too good, 1 tile that consist of two grassland and a water tile is better than +1 food from the sea at the beginning. And navigation is not a really fast tech to get (if you beeline for it with a tech civ and without opposition, every tech can be considered fast), most of the times by the time you resaerch it I can have expanded to all the sea.


And Morte, I usually win zulu easily because they are mostly bad players but I was talking about a situation that you start near zulu and the zulu player is as good as you. Just remember that situation you are telling me that you won against zulu, and imagine you were the zulu player - there is no doubt you would have won easily.

[xbman22x]

Just find island with whale or at least fish. Its not very difficult and those cities will grow easily and be considerably good, not to mention the fact that you dont need to defend them (at least for some time). Whale is way too good, 1 tile that consist of two grassland and a water tile is better than +1 food from the sea at the beginning. And navigation is not a really fast tech to get (if you beeline for it with a tech civ and without opposition, every tech can be considered fast), most of the times by the time you resaerch it I can have expanded to all the sea.


And Morte, I usually win zulu easily because they are mostly bad players but I was talking about a situation that you start near zulu and the zulu player is as good as you. Just remember that situation you are telling me that you won against zulu, and imagine you were the zulu player - there is no doubt you would have won easily.

i can set up island cities too. i can utilize whales really early too. (all you need is math). oh, and i get +1 food from the most abundant, most usefull tile in the whole fraken game, that lasts for the whole fraken game. your bonus fades, mine gets even stronger with time.

to be honest, even the greeks are better for island cities than the spanish.

when i first started playing this game, i loved the spanish and i defended them to no end. but after one REALLY long arguement with morte, i realized that they cant hold up to the japs, greeks, chinese, or even the aztecs in science or gold.

[Russian_Roulette]

i can set up island cities too. i can utilize whales really early too. (all you need is math). oh, and i get +1 food from the most abundant, most usefull tile in the whole fraken game, that lasts for the whole fraken game. your bonus fades, mine gets even stronger with time.

to be honest, even the greeks are better for island cities than the spanish.

when i first started playing this game, i loved the spanish and i defended them to no end. but after one REALLY long arguement with morte, i realized that they cant hold up to the japs, greeks, chinese, or even the aztecs in science or gold.

I dont think you understand the power of spain. If I find some time and motivation I will write a guide explaining them.

With spain I will totally deny the island expansion for the other player, and he must be very gambler/lucky to build and protect even one island city. A galleon with +1 to naval combat will overrun galleys, and if you dare to build a galleon yourself (which cant be very soon ) that would very probably 30 hammers lost. You tend to see things in the long term, but if played well there is no need for that long term to happen (and i´m not talking of rushing)

This isnt a perfect argument because there are many bad players, but spain is the second/third civ I´ve played more and I honestly dont remember losing a game with them.

PS: I imagine you made a mistake saying that what you need to use whale is math, if it isnt I dont understand you.

[xbman22x]

I dont think you understand the power of spain. If I find some time and motivation I will write a guide explaining them.

With spain I will totally deny the island expansion for the other player, and he must be very gambler/lucky to build and protect even one island city. A galleon with +1 to naval combat will overrun galleys, and if you dare to build a galleon yourself (which cant be very soon ) that would very probably 30 hammers lost. You tend to see things in the long term, but if played well there is no need for that long term to happen (and i´m not talking of rushing)

This isnt a perfect argument because there are many bad players, but spain is the second/third civ I´ve played more and I honestly dont remember losing a game with them.

PS: I imagine you made a mistake saying that what you need to use whale is math, if it isnt I dont understand you.

math is a pre-req of nav.

you cant colonize every island before i get to 2 or 3. you might get the best islands, but with japan every island is the best island. you simply cannot do things with the spanish that you can do with the japs.

[eireksten]

@Russian_Roulette:

There's no point in arguing with these guys. I've tried on several occasions. They simply won't accept that there can be several sides of things. Everything needs to be black/white.

[Madhatter]

@eireksten

It seems it been a while since you gave you opinion on anything which is
to bad i like how you come up with ideas not commands
im at the moment trying to play single player random...
gives a nice varity to the strategies.
My opinion at the moment is that most civs players good in singel player.
but cant say about mp since im not spending my time there.

[MorteEterna]

math is a pre-req of nav.

you cant colonize every island before i get to 2 or 3. you might get the best islands, but with japan every island is the best island. you simply cannot do things with the spanish that you can do with the japs.

And in my opinion having cities in the mainland is better. If you meet a rusher, and he get all capitals he will win, and it's difficult to produce units in islands and sending them to the mainland

[xbman22x]

And in my opinion having cities in the mainland is better. If you meet a rusher, and he get all capitals he will win, and it's difficult to produce units in islands and sending them to the mainland

i just get 1 mainland city. get the free walls and then spam defensive units. it is easy to get backup because you are making so much gold.

[MorteEterna]

i just get 1 mainland city. get the free walls and then spam defensive units. it is easy to get backup because you are making so much gold.

Well, you could do that, but when he gets an IBCM or he is zulu plus arabs bonuses (religion and perhaps samurai castle), they could have a catapult army with 45 attack and that would be a waste. After some battles, you finish the armies and the overrun is coming

[xbman22x]

Well, you could do that, but when he gets an IBCM or he is zulu plus arabs bonuses (religion and perhaps samurai castle), they could have a catapult army with 45 attack and that would be a waste. After some battles, you finish the armies and the overrun is coming

those are bad examples. remember, i can tech like crazy with the japs. i will get to nuclear theory first, switch to gold, and rush manhattan project.

i will also have riflemen by the time he gets religion and samari.

[MorteEterna]

those are bad examples. remember, i can tech like crazy with the japs. i will get to nuclear theory first, switch to gold, and rush manhattan project.

i will also have riflemen by the time he gets religion and samari.

These are bad examples, too. You could have these things, but not so fast as you say, maybe with chinese you can do that, but if your enemy is good enough and prepare an army before you have riflemen (and he could not hardly), it would be hard to stop him for you, and you won't start with 10'000 gold to rush pikemen here and there..