Help with square management pls (questions)

[Virodeath]

Ok last night I played thru several practice starts on Emperor level (SP) with Spain so I could get a feel for what I was doing but have questions. Was I doing it the most efficient way?

I was setting up for a Horseman rush. And this is what went down:

1.) Established city and adjusted workers to hammers on (two) squares (no growth/science)

2.) Pumped out 4 warriors at 3 turns each (instead of 5 turns each) and went in search of Barbarians & my closest AI

3.) Once fourth warrior was produced I switched city to science production (custom squares so I was getting +4 science instead of typ. +2)

4.) 100g settlers were produced and sent them out about 8 squares away to some shore that had 2 whales, peeled 1 warrior off to escort settlers.

5.) Found AI (English) about 15 squares (funny normally they are like 6-8 squares away) They turned out to be the only AI on my land mass

6.) Discovered Horseman and started rushing them from the 120 gold I got from the Barbs. Then discovered Alphabet.

7.) Finished with last rushed Horseman and sent Horseman army to English and set city to balanced (as to keep science going but also start with city growth) also sent caravan ahead of army to open up squares around the English city.

8.) Had the 3 warriors I had sent out converge together at AI city (formed army around upgraded warrior unit) they met with Horseman army at city at the same time.

9.) Sold all my tech to English (45g a wack – Alphabet, Horseman, Code)(noted she mentioned she hoped I had good intentions with my army next to her city (does this matter))

10.) Attacked with Horseman army and win but didn’t take city, met 1 warrior unit, attacked with upgraded warrior army met 1 warrior unit and took the city.


So at this point I am feel’in pretty good about what I did as far as getting the AI threat away from my area and getting a capitol. My questions are:

1.) Was this the most efficient use us squares in a Horseman rush / recover scenario?
2.) Had a second AI been in the area would I had needed to continue rushing a second Horseman Army or just turn the forces I had on them?

This was my first attempt at this on this level but I think I was lucky in the initial placement of AI only having to deal with one AI.

Any thoughts on refining this would be greatly appreciated.

Viro

[Matrix49G]

Sounds good to me, but I guess it would depend on what difficulty you played on. If it was chieftien then no, IMO.

[Virodeath]

Was Emperor level.

Viro

[Rawchief]

When I horse rush, my progression tends to go something like the following:

turns 1-5: two workers on science research horseback riding.
turns 6-10: two workers on hammer making my first horse.
turns 11-15: two workers on hammers making second horse. Pop huts with first horse and explore.
turns 16-20: two workers on food. Horse popping huts looking for enemy civs. Horses continue to pop huts and explore
turns 21-25: three workers on science for library tech.

When I've gotten my settler, I rush build a third horse and library when I can.

If I run across an enemy city with my first horse within turns 11-15, I sometimes attack it even if it has a troop. Or I wait if barbarian huts had been going well until I can get my horsemen army up and running.

I tweak the above strat depending on which civ I have. Obviously some like the Chineese, Japaneese, and Egyptians will not need as many turns to get to the same point other civs need.

[Virodeath]

So you don't explore at all until you have researched and built your first Horseman?

Doesn't that give the AI more time to take huts?

ALSO even if you have an upgraded Horseman army is it possible to attack and take the city in one move with Horseman (since most likely there will be two warrior units in the city)? Do they get an additional move upgrade?

Viro

[TehTil0r]

horsemen rush means HORSEmen rush and not warrior rush

so move your city next to a barb hut and get a free milita to explore and hurry to pump out as many horse as possible.

every warrior you build is 3 rounds lost to the ai. dont know how it works on emperor because i just played deity before traded in that broken game for soulcalibur 4, but there every warrior was lost on your way to a bc domination.

in mp i would suggest to build 2 warriors ... but 4 are far off the road imho

[Rawchief]

On turn 14, my first horse will have moved the same amount of squares as the first warrior. One difference to note is the horse at maximum only has to heal once after a battle, a warrior may have to spend two turns to heal depending on combat.

Horsemen can receive the march upgrade, but generally my first upgrade, I get the choice of infiltration or blitz.

The major weakness to the strat I post is when your are surrounded by civs on each side, you may miss out on a hut or two you may have got with a warrior, but generally this is not the case.

I'm fairly confident though you will be knocking on an opposing civ's door with a horsemen army long before a warrior army unless your the Zulu or the Arabs and are specifically hunting another civ down.

[eireksten]

On turn 14, my first horse will have moved the same amount of squares as the first warrior.

Not very sure about that.

On turn 14, your first horseman will have moved a maximum of 8 tiles.
A warrior will move a maximum of 11 (he was ready at turn 3).

In addition, when sieging barbarian villages, horsemen use 2 moves (when they are directly attacking), while warriors use 1 (thus won't the horseman catch up as fast). Also, the warrior gets to start doing his moves before the horseman gets his, so he might reach the barb villages earlier, thus getting rewards earlier.

While you research and build the horseman, the warrior producer can produce SEVERAL warriors, and also do other stuff.

I see that starting with horsemen has it's advantages, but it also has it's disadvantages...

[Rawchief]

Not very sure about that.

On turn 14, your first horseman will have moved a maximum of 8 tiles.
A warrior will move a maximum of 11 (he was ready at turn 3).

Good catch, I messed my math up. It's turn 16 where they will have had the oppurtunity to both have moved 12 tiles.

He mentioned building 4 warriors at 3 turns a piece which means he would not be doing anything else for those first 12 turns. Assuming he goes 2 into horseback research right afer the 4th warrior pops, he would have the research finished by turn 17. At this point, my strat will be working on a 3rd population and hopefully be on the way to a settler and rushing my last horsemen already. He will have just begun 1 horsemen towards his horsemen rush.

When pumping out warriors like this, he would definately get to the barb villages near his capitol quicker then the strat I posted, but the ones that are farther out are where the horsemen begin to excel.

Plus when considering exploration, players to tend to divide and conquer so to speak. When you finally do find an enemy civ, you have to have 2 of the 3 reverse directions towards the enemy civ. Horsemen will better be able to get back and shape up for an army then warriors would.

I agree like most strats, there are positives and negatives. The strat I posted above is hurting if the enemy is only 6-8 tiles away from your capitol. But if they are farther, horsemen help out more.
I personally consider this more of a horsemen rush as opposed to his initial strat.

[RayJay]

turns 1-5: two workers on science research horseback riding.

I used to do this too however I think a better alternative is 1 science, 1 food

The tech is researched in 7 turns (+ the first turn) and your city grows 3 in the meantime which allows 2 production + food/science afterward

Going the 2 science route means no city growth until the 3rd horseman has been created

Any thoughts?

[Rawchief]

I always thought the tech was 20 beakers... So I don't see how you can get the tech within 7 turns with only 1 researching at 2 beakers a turn.

When I'm playing people I know can hold there own, I'm usually Japan or China when I use this strat so I'm getting food the whole time I'm researching.
But I was using a generic strat above since he mentioned he was using Spain.

Also note I get my third pop after the second horseman is built, not the third. I tend to purchase the third horse after I get my bonus settler.

[RayJay]

I always thought the tech was 20 beakers... So I don't see how you can get the tech within 7 turns with only 1 researching at 2 beakers a turn.

We're talking about Horseback Riding right? Yeah with 2 beakers it takes 7 turns and 4 beakers it takes 5 turns

Try it out

I was surprised too. The developers might have done this to prevent massive tech rushing in the early game

Also note I get my third pop after the second horseman is built, not the third. I tend to purchase the third horse after I get my bonus settler.

Fair enough

[Rawchief]

Thanks, I will have to check it out.

[RayJay]

Thanks, I will have to check it out.

no problem

It also opens up the possibility of a 3 production square horseman rush giving an army in 10 turns not including gold rush - that is if you start with 3 forests adjacent

[Virodeath]

After the fourth warrior was built I switched to all science (two squares / 4 beakers) I only built the fourth warrior because English came out of the fog once wanted to be friends then offered to take 50g off my hands in return for not taking my settlers.. All in one move.

I will def. try the strat above since I am looking to refine it and this was my first attempt. Also the warriors I made had the advantage of not going off in the wrong directions away from each other because the game placed me in the upper right of a large island and as I fanned out all I could do was go left and down, when I met the English I just made a sweeping pattern with my warriors to them and square blocked their warriors (moving in front of them cutting them off) from getting to two huts first (I love doing this). So as you can see it was nothing to get the warriors there (in this particular case).

Will I have a problem with my capitol population being to "behind" doing it my way though?

Viro

[Rawchief]

as long as your strat pays off and you take a second city, it won't hurt that much. Personally I like to try and get a third citizen.

[Virodeath]

This is pretty funny, every game I played on Emperor up to using the Horseman I have had two civs right at my door step, I just started another game and the closest two civs are 12 squares away from me and 12 squares between eachother.... figures....

Viro

[Rawchief]

Ok, so I did some research on this horseback riding in 7 turns with only one scientist thing. Turns out it is a display issue. It still takes 10 turns like it should to hit the 20 beaker cost. For some reason though, all techs show up as only taking 7 turns when you check them while you have one reasearcher doing 2 beakers.

[RayJay]

Ok, so I did some research on this horseback riding in 7 turns with only one scientist thing. Turns out it is a display issue. It still takes 10 turns like it should to hit the 20 beaker cost. For some reason though, all techs show up as only taking 7 turns when you check them while you have one reasearcher doing 2 beakers.

I was why the city screen said 'population growth in 10 turns' yet it happens at the same time as the tech is researched

All the same its still a pretty big glitch...