Language Question for Ken

[Tarand]

Ken Levine

I played System Shock 2, loved it. I look forward to BioShock.

A recent article -
http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/.../799226p1.html

and various video clips of the game, are littered with foul language.

Why?

I understand there is going to be a mature rating, I understand that. But what's the point of using foul language?

It is uncreative. People who use it as expressions of whatever they are feeling at the moment forsake far more creative ways to say it. People who use it are limiting themselves to a very small, undesirable portion of all language. People who use it show that they are ignorant enough not to know to use something better.

I don't feel it "makes the game more real" because it uses "every day language".

[lurchibald]

well what the hell do you expect people to say when that society is the way it is? do you expect "oh golly gosh you just shot me you bad bad man i am going to come after you now"

[lurchibald]

P.S. change your avatar someone already has it

[CitrusFreak12]

I'd just like to say that I haven't noticed the foul language, probably because I don't overreact to it. In what context is said foul language being used?

I think Ken and the team have done a fine job with the way the splicers talk. My favorite was when a splicer was apparently attacking another splicer, saying something along the lines of "Go away, hanger-on!" Don't know why, but that just amused me.

Also, how on earth is that article "littered with foul language?" It contains exactly one instance of the word "☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺."

Swears are part of the vernacular. If they offend your delicate sensiblities, I suggest you grow some thicker skin. That is not to say that people should not strengthen and expand their vocabularies to allow them to express themselves in ways that do not always resort to curse words, but you seem to be blowing things way out of proportion here.

Lurchibald: I was thinking something more along the lines of ""Lo! My flesh hath been pierced by a leaden projectile! This is your doing, foul ruffian! Henceforth you are my sworn enemy, knave, and I shall hunt you down like the dog that you are, and nothing shall sate my bloodlust, sir, save for your skull lying broken at my feet! Have at you!" (Of course, I don't think this type of language fits the time period or setting at all, but hey..)

[Ectoplasm]

Yep, exactly what you expect from a crazed semi-human who just took a wrench to the face?

[Da Bubs]

Tarand, yes swears can be used as a writing crutch, but that doesnt mean that they always are used as one. Some people swear all the time, some rarely do ( I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you are one of the latter)
its a part of personality. I know someone who once complained that Jules and Vincent in Pulp Fiction swore too much, but you have to realize that they are hitmen, it would be rather odd if they never swore. Similarly were talking about a utopia which has gone to hell, do you really expect it's mutated, crazed inhabitents not to swear?

about it being uncreative, do you want them to think up some new swears?thats not a bad idea, I would expect them to use whatever term they use for people living on the surface derogatorily. although to rebutt what you said people generally dont look for the most creative way to say things, for example, when someone drops a heavy object on their foot they just swear, they dont look for creative things to say.

[tronned]

Lurchibald: I was thinking something more along the lines of ""Lo! My flesh hath been pierced by a leaden projectile! This is your doing, foul ruffian! Henceforth you are my sworn enemy, knave, and I shall hunt you down like the dog that you are, and nothing shall sate my bloodlust, sir, save for your skull lying broken at my feet! Have at you!" (Of course, I don't think this type of language fits the time period or setting at all, but hey..)

If that were the case, I am fairly certain I would fall asleep just waiting for the dialogue to transpire...

I am fairly certain, if I were actually to meet one of Rapture's inhabitants for the first (or second or third, or every) time, the first thing I would say would be some form of creative expletive. I'm certainly not going to ask them if they want to do the Charleston.

[mercenar3]

Hey if society has issues with "foul language" its the fault of the society for labeling a word a "curse" or an "explicit". I can say poop but i can't say s---? they mean exactly the same thing only the one that is allowed sounds far less sensible, almost a childish. Curse words can be done tastefully or distastefully, if you cannot recognize this you are the ignorant one. Putting vulgarity into any piece or art for shock value is never appreciated if it is however, done to further enhance the art and make it seem more life-like and realistic then it can add to the art and make it better. I also find it interesting that you are not complaining against the violence in this game, rather a word that society has coined "explicit".

s

[godot]

I'm reminded of Blade Runner when Roy Batty tells Dr Eldon Tyrell, "I want more life, f*cker!!" That scene would have registered entirely differently had he only said, "I want more life", ironically because Roy Batty had been presented as highly intelligent and articulate. It ideally underscored the depth of his personal dispair in that moment. And I think we can expect to encounter plenty of dispair in Rapture.

[Tarand]

I'd just like to say that I haven't noticed the foul language, probably because I don't overreact to it. In what context is said foul language being used?

One of the video's where you are trapped, Andrew appears (in a TV?) and the apparent voice that is leading you around exclaims "Christ! You're trapped!". I don't believe Christ was there.. so It was used in a method that offends me. And it's not a part of MY vernacular...

I think Ken and the team have done a fine job with the way the splicers talk. My favorite was when a splicer was apparently attacking another splicer, saying something along the lines of "Go away, hanger-on!" Don't know why, but that just amused me.

No arguments there.

Also, how on earth is that article "littered with foul language?" It contains exactly one instance of the word "bull____."

Swears are part of the vernacular. If they offend your delicate sensiblities, I suggest you grow some thicker skin. That is not to say that people should not strengthen and expand their vocabularies to allow them to express themselves in ways that do not always resort to curse words, but you seem to be blowing things way out of proportion here.

The reason I find foul language unpleasant is because when one reads it, it just seems offensive and immature, it doesn't command respect and it neglects more meaningful, persuasive language of which I know that people are capable of. I think you do yourself a disservice by resorting to the use of foul language.

[Mr.Bubblez]

The reason I find foul language unpleasant is because when one reads it, it just seems offensive and immature, it doesn't command respect and it neglects more meaningful, persuasive language of which I know that people are capable of. I think you do yourself a disservice by resorting to the use of foul language.

I mean no offense, but I think you represent about .00001% of the population. Swearing is part of our culture. I think the vast majority of mature adults accept that and are not offended solely based on the type of language used. In many cases its just casual banter and a means of conveying humor (if you happen to have a sense of humor ).

[That_dude]

The reason I find foul language unpleasant is because when one reads it, it just seems offensive and immature, it doesn't command respect and it neglects more meaningful, persuasive language of which I know that people are capable of. I think you do yourself a disservice by resorting to the use of foul language.

Now, I'm not one hundred percent sure, but if you're offended at cursing, and splicers cursing at you, then I'm sure BioShock isn't the game for you. I think anyone offended by virtual beings, and words, should put the mouse away. We live in a modern society, not everyone lives by one standard, and unless you're living with your mother, or have your tongue cut off, you're allowed to curse.
Frankly, I think curse words can be used in a manner, not so offensive/immature. I know I never use words in the wrong manner, like all these kids nowadays.
I say, unless the F-bomb, or any other word, is a Semi-truck doing 120 on the highway, chasing you, then theres no reason to avoid it. They're just words afterall, which are really just sounds coming out of the mouth/vocal chords.

[Raveness]

The reason I find foul language unpleasant is because when one reads it, it just seems offensive and immature, it doesn't command respect and it neglects more meaningful, persuasive language of which I know that people are capable of. I think you do yourself a disservice by resorting to the use of foul language.

You're making little sense. It sounds like you yourself dislike the use of cursing in a game, yet you fail to provide counterpoints or examples as to why cursing would fail in the Rapturian setting, and simply use the obvious "there is better language to use" point or simply discount intelligence factor if there is a speck of vulgarity.

The only "disservice" Irrational would be doing would be to not include an authentic experience in the context they've provided for the game. I think, along with many here, that vulgarity, as long as it is not overdone, can enhance the state of the atmosphere.

[CodeMonkey]

"Christ! You're trapped!". I don't believe Christ was there.. so It was used in a method that offends me. And it's not a part of MY vernacular...
.

I too find the word "Christ" offensive as it has been used to justify bigotry, exploitation, and even genocide...

[borgdrone89]

Lurchibald: I was thinking something more along the lines of ""Lo! My flesh hath been pierced by a leaden projectile! This is your doing, foul ruffian! Henceforth you are my sworn enemy, knave, and I shall hunt you down like the dog that you are, and nothing shall sate my bloodlust, sir, save for your skull lying broken at my feet! Have at you!" (Of course, I don't think this type of language fits the time period or setting at all, but hey..)

also if they tried to say this:
a) you would have killed them long before they could finish saying it
b) they speak really fast like a chipmunk, and you still kill them

[biohazzard]

I was thinking something more along the lines of ""Lo! My flesh hath been pierced by a leaden projectile! This is your doing, foul ruffian! Henceforth you are my sworn enemy, knave, and I shall hunt you down like the dog that you are, and nothing shall sate my bloodlust, sir, save for your skull lying broken at my feet! Have at you!"

LOL LOL ROTFLOLx2

thats hilarius

[BioShockWins]

oh and Terand curse words dont hurt anyone F--k f--kidy f--k f--k f--k

aww man... that isn't necessary, could you please grow up?

[BioShockWins]

P.S. change your avatar someone already has it

holly crap o.O!! my clone!

[BioShockWins]

I understand there is going to be a mature rating, I understand that. But what's the point of using foul language?

It is uncreative. People who use it as expressions of whatever they are feeling at the moment forsake far more creative ways to say it. People who use it are limiting themselves to a very small, undesirable portion of all language. People who use it show that they are ignorant enough not to know to use something better.

I don't feel it "makes the game more real" because it uses "every day language".

I'm not sure that gene addicted insane splicers would follow the teachings of Plato and Socrates...

Phsychologicaly people use foul language to express extreme emotion. It has little or nothing to do with creativity. I'm not sure a whole lot of people are going to go around saying, 'gosh, you shot me in the knee. That makes me feel kind of angry, may we please talk this over to express our emotions clearly?'

[Raveness]

I understand there is going to be a mature rating, I understand that. But what's the point of using foul language?

It is uncreative. People who use it as expressions of whatever they are feeling at the moment forsake far more creative ways to say it. People who use it are limiting themselves to a very small, undesirable portion of all language. People who use it show that they are ignorant enough not to know to use something better.

I don't feel it "makes the game more real" because it uses "every day language".

I couldn't disagree more with a statement such as "People who use it as expressions of whatever they are feeling at the moment forsake far more creative ways to say it"

You're lumping "People" into a specified category of purely upstanding vernacular prowess. Sure Rapture would rate higher than a Southern LA ghetto in terms of vocabulary and tact in using said vocabulary, but I doubt it is a 100% rule that you could apply to the entire populous, especially one that has experienced a psychological endemic collapse that would lead many upstanding citizens to spew diatribes that are possibly vulgarity-laden.

The focus should not be on how the game players sensibilities relate to hearing curse words, but how the curse words fit in with the Rapturian characters speaking them. In this case the odd F or S or BS said in an appropriate context of either exorbitant frustration, or as an automatic defensive reflex to a mortal threat doesn't come off as ludicrous.

[somecut8]

Ken Levine

I played System Shock 2, loved it. I look forward to BioShock.

A recent article -
http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/.../799226p1.html

and various video clips of the game, are littered with foul language.

Why?

I understand there is going to be a mature rating, I understand that. But what's the point of using foul language?

It is uncreative. People who use it as expressions of whatever they are feeling at the moment forsake far more creative ways to say it. People who use it are limiting themselves to a very small, undesirable portion of all language. People who use it show that they are ignorant enough not to know to use something better.

I don't feel it "makes the game more real" because it uses "every day language".

Well, I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, curse words are used to place emphasis on something. You really don't get the same effect if you say, "wow that was good" and "wow that was extremely good" from "wow that was damn good."

[BioShockWins]

the first actual trolling of the 2k forums...
it is a sad day for all of us

[MF9000]

the first actual trolling of the 2k forums...
it is a sad day for all of us

It's not the first I've seen on this forum, but it seems to be the instance of trolling that has us sitting up and taking notice.

[godot]

the first actual trolling of the 2k forums...
it is a sad day for all of us

The trolly post was deleted and now everyone will think you're referring to my post. lol