How good is BIOSHOCK really as a FPS

[Fester_A]

Hello.

I have been curious as to how good BIOSHOCK really is as a first person shooter?

Before you answer I would like to elaborate.

First, I do not normally like FPS's, the limited field of vision in such games give me the impression of tunnel vision wich meens I commonly do not buy the games.

BIOSHOCK is an exeption for me, the world seemed interesting and every article on the game stated it was more about the story, the art, the surroundings so on and so forth and not so much about the shooting.

While playing the game I found this very true, I spend by far more time searching for recorders and looking at posters than actually blazing away with the guns, it seems my most frequently redied "weapons" are the camera and the telekenesis plasmid and I have alot of fun.

Thus my question...

If you only judged the game based on its FPS qualities, how good would you say it is?

[Olgerth Heidern]

Pretty good. It's definitely not a "competitive FPS" like Halo or Unreal Tournament; it's a good single-player slog on par with original Deus Ex (as far as FPS component goes).

If you liked FPS dynamics of Deus Ex, you will like Bioshock. If you are looking for something with more rocket-jumping and OMGWTFBBQ factor, you won't like it.

[FomarThain]

Having played it twice I never thought about it being a FPS to be honest. I guess I wouldn't put it in that category. In truth I don't know if it has a category, heh.

[FomarThain]

If you liked FPS dynamics of Deus Ex, you will like Bioshock

EDIT to my post after reading Olgerth Heiderns. I guess I would put it in the same category as Deus Ex. I loved that game (is in my top ten). But again, I am not sure that game has a category either.

I think to call both of those FPS does them a disservice.

[lelebulletdodger]

Bioshock isn't just a FPS but a interesting and awesome line of history based for video games, its all about fun, renovation, a good imagination and good ideas made this game the hint of 2007

[Hyden]

It's the first FPS I played through 4 full times! Everything about it drew me in, the music, the plasmids, the weapons, the stories, the graphics. It's a very well polished piece of work & it shows.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...vsbigdaddy.jpg

[ack754]

I have to put BioShock in the same category as Strangers Wrath, from the Oddworld series.

Weapons, environment, characters, etc...

Halo (plus 2 and 3) is an outstanding series, to me anyway, but different in game play from BS.

Halo is typically a "Run&Gun" with a lot of tactics, strategy and whatnot while BS does have its intense moments what with the splicers and all, but after things have settled down, BS just makes you want to look around and explore and on occasion like I am prone to do is go back and start a level all over again. Just to get a full experience from the game. But I guess that is what all the difficulty levels are for.

H3 is pretty amazing. Just compare H to H3 and you can see a huge difference in the quality.

Yeah, they're both FPS games, but totally different from each other. Makes it kind of difficult to compare the two.

Dale

[Chone]

Bioshock is a good shooter but its a great game because of its adventuring and exploration appeal and the game enviroments are just pretty well done.

If only there were more enemies than splicers, they were harder to kill and the combat required more skill then it would be better as a shooter but its still pretty fun to mess around with the plasmids.

[Ric]

BioShock is more than just a first person shooter. It's definitely difficult to categories this game: not quite FPS, not quite RPG, and not quite Horror/Survival. Instead it is a blend of all of these combined with an excellent storyline that takes you on a journey through a well thought out world populated with characters that you just won't find in any other game.

If you still haven't bought this game then you need to. It is a game you should play. Put it this way: people will talk about this game with reverence in years to come.

[ZippyDSMlee]

DO not belive the hype bioshock is not that great, it is a solid game but lacking polish in the gameplay the look got to much attention and the AI is mediocre.

That said what dose bioshock offer, a lite thinkers shooter set in a art deco world from people to places to things its all art deco/retro.

All in all worth 30$.

[joe_dude]

IMHO, as an FPS, BioShock is probably challenging on the Xbox, but not really on the PC. Frankly, it was a bit of a turkey shoot. But I played it on moderate instead of hard on purpose.

Yes, it is an FPS, but it's also an interactive movie, and if the FPS combat was too intense, it would detract from the story and other elements. Kind of like a cel phone ringing during a movie, or the guy in front of you standing up.

Throughout the game, you get the sense that 2K purposely doesn't try to overwhelm the player with enemies. Usually, the splicers attack in single file, and the vita chambers guarantee a second, third, fourth chance, etc.

If we have to run for our lives like in a typical "run 'n' gun" FPS, all that artwork, story, plasmid selections, etc. would be a waste really. Can't smell the roses if one is running over them.

Frankly, I've looooong been burnt out on the generic FPS. Games like Halo to me (just me) is soooo 90's. I'm glad a new generation of console gamers have discovered the joy of FPSes, or otherwise games like Bioshock would never be made. But I hope BioShock will push games to be more than just "new ways to kill things."

[ZippyDSMlee]

IMHO, as an FPS, BioShock is probably challenging on the Xbox, but not really on the PC. Frankly, it was a bit of a turkey shoot. But I played it on moderate instead of hard on purpose.

Yes, it is an FPS, but it's also an interactive movie, and if the FPS combat was too intense, it would detract from the story and other elements. Kind of like a cel phone ringing during a movie, or the guy in front of you standing up.

Throughout the game, you get the sense that 2K purposely doesn't try to overwhelm the player with enemies. Usually, the splicers attack in single file, and the vita chambers guarantee a second, third, fourth chance, etc.

If we have to run for our lives like in a typical "run 'n' gun" FPS, all that artwork, story, plasmid selections, etc. would be a waste really. Can't smell the roses if one is running over them.

Frankly, I've looooong been burnt out on the generic FPS. Games like Halo to me (just me) is soooo 90's. I'm glad a new generation of console gamers have discovered the joy of FPSes, or otherwise games like Bioshock would never be made. But I hope BioShock will push games to be more than just "new ways to kill things."

I dunno the Halo/Farcry formal is neat altho I much prefer a more adventure setting like Unreal and HL1,most of the FPSs now adays are sloped togther for the gun and run crowd,Doom 3 being the best example of anew corridoor gun and run game.

[ZippyDSMlee]

I dunno the Halo/Farcry formal is neat altho I much prefer a more adventure setting like Unreal and HL1,most of the FPSs now adays are sloped together for the gun and run crowd,Doom 3 being the best example of a NEO corridor gun and run game.

formal=formula

gaaa grammar I killed it bad today 0-o

[Demitasse]

A.I. was pretty dumb to me, about the same as Doom 3. The enemies run straight at you for human sakes especially the ones with the guns. Why not get behind cover, and take pot shots at me? Before the game was released they said they were going to get rid of linear corridors. Yeah right. That's exactly what 80% of BioShock is. I also can't stand the invisible walls. The storyline was very great though. I only wished that 2K would have worked a lot better on the smaller details.

[Mr.Bubblez]

As a pure FPS I'd give it a 7/10.

BioShock has a very interesting mix of pathetically easy gameplay, even on hard, coupled with one of the worst gun line ups in the history of FPSs. The weapons are flat out pathetic in this game. I mean give us a something cool like a Colt 1911, Garand rifle, rivet gun, or heavy rocket launcher. What do we get? Gun powder coffee cans. C'mon guys. The tommy gun would have been cool if it wernt so damned weak....

Underpowered weapons are never fun.

[Mr.Bubblez]

A.I. was pretty dumb to me

I second that. However, thats a trend I see in most FPSs, excluding Far Cry and STALKER.

[Fester_A]

A few people seem to have missunderstood my question.

I have finished the game and I did like it.

I have almost completed the game again on hard doing the "good" ending by saving the sisters.

I love the surroundings, I find the tapes brilliant and the feel of the game well above most FPS I have tried.

Games such as Halo, quake and counterstrike leave me completely unaffected, I can play them for a bit to kill time but I have no vested interest in it, if the phone rings I commonly dont even pause the game, so what if the char dies, its just a shootemup.

The strength of the story in Bioshock made it different for me but this is somthing I already know.

What I wnted to know about Bioshock is how it measures upp if you remove the story, you remove the atmosphere, you remove the fluff and simply jude it based on its FPS quality.

To those that have answered this question I say thanx, aparently this is a game that is made or broken in the story, not in the shooting.

[greylantern]

Bioshock is actually a very AVERAGE FPS game, the art, theme, story and hype have combined to make it appear more than what it is... all of that side stuff is great but the core gameplay (vital for any decent FPS) is lacking, weak, flat, non visceral through the majority of the game (ie. Splicers).

It's nowhere near as good/fun to play as some other solid FPS for actually interacting with enemies. It does score higher than most in it's presentation, story and premise but ultimately that means little if the gameplay is dull and/or flawed.

Still need at least ten issues addressed in a patch to bring up to the same level as the top PC FPS games never mind surpass them.

[greylantern]

Oh and yes as above, 'soft' weapons and non rewarding dispatching of enemies (splicers) really kills the games core gameplay. If you are wowed (fooled) by the side story and theme then knock yourselves out but I judge a game from the gameplay/rewards/fun factors first, everything else is (or should be) icing on the cake. In Bioshock the 'icing' is the game and underneath it is a flawed immitation of what a great FPS game should play like.

/yes i'm angry this morning

[Mr.Bubblez]

Oh and yes as above, 'soft' weapons and non rewarding dispatching of enemies (splicers) really kills the games core gameplay. If you are wowed (fooled) by the side story and theme then knock yourselves out but I judge a game from the gameplay/rewards/fun factors first, everything else is (or should be) icing on the cake. In Bioshock the 'icing' is the game and underneath it is a flawed immitation of what a great FPS game should play like.

/yes i'm angry this morning

sadly i totally agree with that.

however i must say the icing is very good. the story, graphics, voice acting and artistic design are some of the best ever seen in game. even though the core gameplay is average, layers and layers of yummy icing still make it a great game.

[Demitasse]

Icing is disgusting in excessive amounts, and that is what BioShock has. Excessive amounts of icing.

[Mr.Bubblez]

Icing is disgusting in excessive amounts, and that is what BioShock has. Excessive amounts of icing.

so you're saying the production values are too good? that doesnt make sense

[ZippyDSMlee]

Icing is disgusting in excessive amounts, and that is what BioShock has. Excessive amounts of icing.

I would not say that, I would say the icing(graphics/art) got all the fresh ingredients and the cake(game play polish) itself got stale ingredients.

[Grinsomx]

Hello.

I have been curious as to how good BIOSHOCK really is as a first person shooter?

Before you answer I would like to elaborate.

First, I do not normally like FPS's, the limited field of vision in such games give me the impression of tunnel vision wich meens I commonly do not buy the games.

BIOSHOCK is an exeption for me, the world seemed interesting and every article on the game stated it was more about the story, the art, the surroundings so on and so forth and not so much about the shooting.

While playing the game I found this very true, I spend by far more time searching for recorders and looking at posters than actually blazing away with the guns, it seems my most frequently redied "weapons" are the camera and the telekenesis plasmid and I have alot of fun.

Thus my question...

If you only judged the game based on its FPS qualities, how good would you say it is?

as a FPS, it's worth close to nothing. console gamers will care to differ with me...then again, they dont know what a real FPS is. (fps games NEED a mouse and keyboard)

the game is OK, nothing more..nothing less.
it's got all the eye candy you want, without going really deep when it comes to storyline.
1.) where are the cinematics?
2.) everything is explained on tape...oh yea, that was easy (but BORING)
3.) you play the game 1, 2 and maybe even 3 times before you'll get sick of it, replayability is close to 0 (compared to what was advertised)
4.) weapons and items are just the same old trash as in many other games.

when it comes to FPS games, bioshock is a big fat borefest!
many older games take you a lot deeper into the story, with more complex levels and an allmost free feeling (freeplay fps games are very rare)
Bioshock only delivers when you look at the scenery, the game itself is nothing. it gives you a few good moments to keep you playing until the end, but it wont be a game people remember in 10 years time...
each to his own, but when it comes to fps games it isn't worth it. even HL2 scores better

[Newbiezilla]

as a FPS, it's worth close to nothing. console gamers will care to differ with me...then again, they dont know what a real FPS is. (fps games NEED a mouse and keyboard)

Its easy to make the mistake when talking of input devices to assume your preference is the preference of the world.

Wait, i've never had that... An FPS needs a mouse and keyboard? Mayhaps, you NEED a brain?

[ZippyDSMlee]

as a FPS, it's worth close to nothing. console gamers will care to differ with me...then again, they dont know what a real FPS is. (fps games NEED a mouse and keyboard)

the game is OK, nothing more..nothing less.
it's got all the eye candy you want, without going really deep when it comes to storyline.
1.) where are the cinematics?
2.) everything is explained on tape...oh yea, that was easy (but BORING)
3.) you play the game 1, 2 and maybe even 3 times before you'll get sick of it, replayability is close to 0 (compared to what was advertised)
4.) weapons and items are just the same old trash as in many other games.

when it comes to FPS games, bioshock is a big fat borefest!
many older games take you a lot deeper into the story, with more complex levels and an allmost free feeling (freeplay fps games are very rare)
Bioshock only delivers when you look at the scenery, the game itself is nothing. it gives you a few good moments to keep you playing until the end, but it wont be a game people remember in 10 years time...
each to his own, but when it comes to fps games it isn't worth it. even HL2 scores better

I'll agree to most of that however DOOM 3 and Quake 4 and even parts of HL2 bore me to death with the lack of detail tot he level design and lack of more monster/enemy design.

The game doesn't really need cinematics and it dose have them, however look at SS2 it manges to pour the story and elements of it on water torture style that help to set the mood BS is well a bastard child of SS2 watered down for todays masses, I could stand some watering down since SS2 was hellish but this drowns it with belch and leaves that sicking new carpet smell.

If they had any sense they would setup some SP game rules where you the player can chose how the game works, you can have a nice SS2 style charatcer class setup,or a hard adventure FP setup or a bland free for all setup like we have now options are everything and BS fails at them.

I got more out of Dark Messhia for 20$ than I have out of BS for 30$ thats sad....

Its easy to make the mistake when talking of input devices to assume your preference is the preference of the world.

Wait, i've never had that... An FPS needs a mouse and keyboard? Mayhaps, you NEED a brain?

hes got a point theres just no substatue for a solid mouse and KB control, FPSs were not so bad in the late 90s when they had a ton of config options but now adays the cheap generic cuttie cutter crap is just degrading control, at least with a KB and mouse you can fine tune things more, if FPSs offers more options to fine tune controls I would berate them but they are more games with training wheels on for the mindless masses than games built for experienced gamers.

[Criscokilika]

I have played through BioShock 3 times, gotten all achievements, and played on all difficulties (of coarse). So... ya... BioShock is the best FPS out there in my opinion.

[Demitasse]

Its easy to make the mistake when talking of input devices to assume your preference is the preference of the world.

Wait, i've never had that... An FPS needs a mouse and keyboard? Mayhaps, you NEED a brain?

Mouse, and keyboard make things easier. Playing with the gamepad gives you less spacial awareness because the thumbsticks are too big, and clumsy. It's also harder to make headshots, and there aren't that many buttons so it makes things alot less convienant. Mouse, and keyboard is the best choice in my opinion, and if there was a mouse, and keyboard for the Xbox 360 I would use it.

[ZippyDSMlee]

I'll agree to most of that however DOOM 3 and Quake 4 and even parts of HL2 bore me to death with the lack of detail tot he level design and lack of more monster/enemy design.

The game doesn't really need cinematics and it dose have them, however look at SS2 it manges to pour the story and elements of it on water torture style that help to set the mood BS is well a bastard child of SS2 watered down for todays masses, I could stand some watering down since SS2 was hellish but this drowns it with belch and leaves that sicking new carpet smell.

If they had any sense they would setup some SP game rules where you the player can chose how the game works, you can have a nice SS2 style charatcer class setup,or a hard adventure FP setup or a bland free for all setup like we have now options are everything and BS fails at them.

I got more out of Dark Messhia for 20$ than I have out of BS for 30$ thats sad....



hes got a point theres just no substatue for a solid mouse and KB control, FPSs were not so bad in the late 90s when they had a ton of config options but now adays the cheap generic cuttie cutter crap is just degrading control, at least with a KB and mouse you can fine tune things more, if FPSs offers more options to fine tune controls I would berate them but they are more games with training wheels on for the mindless masses than games built for experienced gamers.

would berate - wouldn't berate

[Grinsomx]

I'll agree to most of that however DOOM 3 and Quake 4 and even parts of HL2 bore me to death with the lack of detail tot he level design and lack of more monster/enemy design.

i've had the exact same feeling with those games, thats why i said that even hl2 scores better. i just used it as a good example of a true FPS game

The game doesn't really need cinematics and it dose have them, however look at SS2 it manges to pour the story and elements of it on water torture style that help to set the mood BS is well a bastard child of SS2 watered down for todays masses, I could stand some watering down since SS2 was hellish but this drowns it with belch and leaves that sicking new carpet smell.

same here, i can only agree... old game in a new jacket, thats what it really is

If they had any sense they would setup some SP game rules where you the player can chose how the game works, you can have a nice SS2 style charatcer class setup,or a hard adventure FP setup or a bland free for all setup like we have now options are everything and BS fails at them.

you lost me a bit here, i dont know what you mean exactly but if it is the proposal to introduce game mechanic setup options...i dont know how possible that would be. SS2 was nice for it's time though, i still play the game sometimes (my comp doesnt like it though)

I got more out of Dark Messhia for 20$ than I have out of BS for 30$ thats sad....

i've heard the same from many other people, maybe i should buy the game as well, at least it will make a nice addition to my collection...and yes, i collect games. i've got over 100 allready and i'm still buying what i like and selling what i dislike. BS is a borderline game, don't really know if i'll keep it.

hes got a point theres just no substatue for a solid mouse and KB control, FPSs were not so bad in the late 90s when they had a ton of config options but now adays the cheap generic cuttie cutter crap is just degrading control, at least with a KB and mouse you can fine tune things more, if FPSs offers more options to fine tune controls I would berate them but they are more games with training wheels on for the mindless masses than games built for experienced gamers.

problem there is the console attitude, it's easy and clean.
but they have to make games easier because of the clumsy controls a pad offers when it comes to FPS games. when i'm playing a platform game and even some race games (allthough i prefer a steering wheel) give me a joypad anytime....fps on the other hand. any serious gamer knows that needs a kb+mouse control combo for precision and..dare i say it, even immersion. it just feels more natural to aim with a mouse and walk,use,interact,etc.. with a kb.(but that is a matter of taste i belief)

oh...and @ newbiezilla :
no i dont need a brain, mine usually works fine...
you might want to finetune yours though if thats all you have to say to defend BS and it being the light of your life

[joe_dude]

I think if you pick any one element out of BioShock, it will be worse than some other game. But as a whole, it is better than most games out there. Trying to fit BioShock into some specific category makes no sense.

I think we need to remember that doing everything well, while not the best, is already very, very hard to accomplish. I don't think there's one game out there where I could not pick apart. Period. But really, would that kind of negativity accomplish anything?

As for FPSes, I use a Trackman Wheel and Zboard Fang, so a regular mouse + keyboard ain't good enough for me, let alone a console game controller.

[Grinsomx]

a regular kb + mouse doesn't really cut it, thats true

[ZippyDSMlee]

i've had the exact same feeling with those games, thats why i said that even hl2 scores better. i just used it as a good example of a true FPS game


same here, i can only agree... old game in a new jacket, thats what it really is


you lost me a bit here, i dont know what you mean exactly but if it is the proposal to introduce game mechanic setup options...i dont know how possible that would be. SS2 was nice for it's time though, i still play the game sometimes (my comp doesnt like it though)

i've heard the same from many other people, maybe i should buy the game as well, at least it will make a nice addition to my collection...and yes, i collect games. i've got over 100 allready and i'm still buying what i like and selling what i dislike. BS is a borderline game, don't really know if i'll keep it.



problem there is the console attitude, it's easy and clean.
but they have to make games easier because of the clumsy controls a pad offers when it comes to FPS games. when i'm playing a platform game and even some race games (allthough i prefer a steering wheel) give me a joypad anytime....fps on the other hand. any serious gamer knows that needs a kb+mouse control combo for precision and..dare i say it, even immersion. it just feels more natural to aim with a mouse and walk,use,interact,etc.. with a kb.(but that is a matter of taste i belief)

oh...and @ newbiezilla :
no i dont need a brain, mine usually works fine...
you might want to finetune yours though if thats all you have to say to defend BS and it being the light of your life

What I mean by Game types is when you start the game you can set what the rules are say you can pick a class in a abstract sense or change how the game works like (plasmids do no damage to enimes)
Using BS as a template the 4 main types would be No plasmids(plasmids do not work on enemies)Warrior(plasmids take 1 bar of eve each use,weapons get damage bonus)Mage (Plasmids take 1/4th as much eve,weapons do 1/8th-1/4th normal damage)Headhunter(headshots do 2X normal damage,including on you).

but before one can set game rules/types the game itself needs more polish, hacking needs more bonus so you can gain more/lose more, you should be able to hack/alter a bot/turret to use diff ammo by giving up some or half of your ammo or change its weapon, it would also be cool it you could sue TK to move turrents around.

I guess game styles can only add so much life to a limp game, BS's fatal flaw is lack of polish in the game itself they could have added more content to the hacking(bot upgrades,halve price),tonics(mixing tonics/equipping them) ,weapons(effects,better upgrade system),fighting(alt fire/push attack using booze to make fires),spawn points(randomized points for better ambushing and screwing with the player),plasmids (effects, better managed magic system).

Also the AI needs work.... then again they set this game to FPS - not FPS +

much like Halo 2 its filled with so many polish issues I give it a 7,and Jericho is not looking better its more a 3rd game combined with a FP game...uhg didn't they learn with RT RPG action games,unpolished hybrids suck more than unpolished non hybird games...


I have complied a list of the games weaknesses and such want to give it a read?
I am about ready to post it just needs more grammar work on it LOL

joe_dude
as a whole its a slop fest of parts and the only defined polished stuff is the art the rest of it is a watered down stew.

Sorry the game is no better no worse as a whole compared to any other bastard child of a real FPS RPG, Dark messiah is arx falaits 2 more or less its a ok game with worse story/plot than BS but over all its not worse than BS and thats what sad BS lacks that much polish to be "better" than the rest....

[Criscokilika]

Why do people make such LONG posts!? Does anybody even read them?

[greylantern]

I'm just glad more and more people are starting to realise/accept how over rated and underwhelming this game was in the gameplay stakes. (i've been saying it since I got past Neptune's bounty 3 weeks back while 99% of other posters were still hyped from the OTT reviews).

[ZippyDSMlee]

Why do people make such LONG posts!? Does anybody even read them?

The same reason others complain about people complaining :P

I'm just glad more and more people are starting to realise/accept how over rated and underwhelming this game was in the gameplay stakes. (i've been saying it since I got past Neptune's bounty 3 weeks back while 99% of other posters were still hyped from the OTT reviews).

IF SS2 is a 9 (11 if it had regenerating psi power or more random drops and inf supply from vending machines) BS is 7 at best maybe 8, the AI is nothing, the plasmids/weapons/tonics have been done better in other games so all thats left is story/setting thats above average and art that redifnes game art other than these the game is just another unfinished game by the indutry.

[clindsly]

Bioshock is a good FPS. Another game I am playing, FEAR, is a better FPS. I have played Halo 3 as well.

An important feature for in playing these games is how much control do I have over the character. In Bioshock and FEAR, I feel that I am controlling the character and not the environment controlling the character. I felt this when I played Halo 3.

[Mr.Bubblez]

I think we need to remember that doing everything well, while not the best, is already very, very hard to accomplish. I don't think there's one game out there where I could not pick apart. Period. But really, would that kind of negativity accomplish anything?

well the point is certain design decisions really suck for veteran PC gamers, or any person who enjoys challenging gameplay. there are also some clear balance and tweaking issues that were never addressed with the combat. the frustrating thing is that with a little tweaking and a higher difficulty setting (no ***king vita chambers, or easy exploits), as well as some more variety in the enemies, a few branching paths and a little more player customization, bioshock could have been much much more (excuse the run on...).

i dont believe in blindly criticizing the game, that indeed is useless. but bioshock has some major issues that hopefully will be addressed in later games... or they may never be addressed as the focus shifts to pleasing a different demographic... but everyone can agree that the coffee can grenade launcher was a bad idea right?

[joe_dude]

I don't think BioShock or Halo are overhyped as console games. If you looked strictly at console games, those two games are the best in their respective class.

But as PC games go, we know BioShock roots are from SS2, and Halo was not well received as a PC game.

In any case, both games are successful with their intended audience - console gamers. In the end, financial success is most important.

Hey, PC gamers are a demanding bunch, so no wonder games for PCs keep shrinking. If the world is willing to pay for "Diner Dash", why cater to elitists?

[Mr.Bubblez]

Hey, PC gamers are a demanding bunch, so no wonder games for PCs keep shrinking. If the world is willing to pay for "Diner Dash", why cater to elitists?

nah, thats bs. people are passionate, especially the hardcore SS2 fan base. in the end they chose to make a popular console game that wasnt was their PC fan base wanted. im saying that there is no reason why they couldnt please both crowds.