Thoughts on "Prometheus"

[japester]

Huge turnout tonight for the midnight opening. Kind of surprising for my town.

Although "Alien" is a classic, it didn't really appeal to me because I'm not a big fan of horror or suspense. I much prefer a stand-up fight light "Aliens". Cameron's sequel is easily one of my favorite movies of all time. As for the other sequels, the less said, the better.

Scott has such an impressive sci-fi pedigree that I was shocked to learn that he hasn't done a sci-fi film in 30 years. I assumed he had done something since "Blade Runner". Nope. "Prometheus" was his return to the genre.

I'm looking forward to hearing some dissection of the film because I found it slightly unsatisfying. It wasn't a bad film by any means. It succeeded in transporting me to this new world. I'm just not sure why I made the trip. Heh. It almost felt like it was an attempt to capitalize on the existing films while setting up a sequel. Like the movie was more of a bridge than a standalone piece. That's not to say it ends on a big cliffhanger. It tells it's own story. But I got the impression that lots of seeds were planted which didn't pay off. Some small. Some large. Then again, maybe I missed the payoffs.

Other than finally giving us our first look at the "space jockeys" (not a spoiler since that is a big part of the ad campaign), the movie still leaves lots of unanswered questions. The whole thing doesn't hang together too well. And there is at least one instance of phenomenal stupidity among the crew, which lead to the one and only revolt among the audience (nearly all of us mumbling/yelling, "Really?!). At least the other characters made smart choices for the most part.

If anyone else saw it, I'd like to hear your take on things. Spoilers are to be expected. Read at your own risk!

[IllusionOfLife]

I came here with every intention of posting this review in the Movie thread as I always do, but I suppose this is a more appropriate place.

In 1979 Ridley Scott released a science fiction horror film that would leave a permanent mark on both genres. The eponymous Alien from the film would go down as one of the greatest and most frightening movie monsters in the history of cinema, and the fully realized setting of the commercial vessel Nostromo would be forever iconic amongst sci-fi settings. Despite this, Ridley Scott never gave us another taste of that world; granted we did get sequels from other filmmakers that ranged from pretty good to nearly unwatchable, but none ever were able to match the brilliance of the original. In fact, after Alien, Scott only once returned to the Science Fiction genre and that was for an entirely different property called Blade Runner.

Then, however, we heard that Ridley Scott was working on something that may or may not be a prequel to Alien, and at the time it sounded brilliant. However, it turns out that the "kind-of a prequel, but not really" approach is the fatal flaw that Prometheus simply can't overcome.

It's hard to talk about the story of Prometheus without spoiling too much, but in broad strokes a pair of scientists have discovered ancient pictograms from various civilizations throughout history that indicate contact with extraterrestrial life, as well as depict a star system where these beings might have originated from. The massive Weyland Corporation funds the expedition to uncover the secrets of these extraterrestrial beings, but once the crew of the Prometheus arrives the situation rapidly starts to deteriorate.

As I mentioned, the biggest problem with Prometheus is that it tries to live in the shadow of Alien without ever taking the initiative and paying off that connection. The plot beats of Prometheus follow those of Alien almost verbatim giving the whole thing a very "been there, done that" feel, and it makes a point of recalling classic iconography from the original film, but only in a frustrating way that poses questions which the film has no intention of ever answering. At the same time, though, the new story the film is trying to tell feels overshadowed by the legacy of Alien, and can never quite shine on its own merit without being tied down by fitting into a universe that doesn't quite suit it.

The movie is also overly ambiguous. At every new turn of the plot a new question is raised, but there is no payoff for any of these questions by the end of the film. While many films end with cliffhangers and pose questions that won't be answered until a subsequent film, a movie should still feature a self-contained narrative with a beginning, middle, and end. Prometheus just feels unfinished. It gives you two hours of questions and ends in a way that essentially says "to be continued... maybe." I'm sure some will argue that there's deeper symbology here, that the meaning of life is unknowable and that life only offers questions without ever providing answers, and while I like high-minded stuff as much as the next guy, if the entire point of your movie is to frustrate your audience, you're doing it wrong.

Prometheus is not without it's good aspects, though. The production design and the cinematography are excellent. Scott has always had an excellent eye for creating interesting and compelling worlds and Prometheus is no exception. The locations are simultaneously loving re-creations of Alien sets while also being new, unique, and beautiful. It's all fully realized and completely immersive, and the 3D really showcases the setting in a beautiful way. If you intend to see the movie, I would definitely recommend seeing it in 3D. Also, the performances are strong with an exceptional stand-out performance by Michael Fassbender. Though the Academy likely won't recognize him for a role in a sci-fi summer blockbuster, he really deserves a nomination for best supporting actor. His performance is absolutely chilling and almost worth seeing the movie for all on its own.

Sadly, though, the bad outweighs the good on this one. By connecting this otherwise unique story to the long-established Alien universe, Prometheus is caught underneath a shadow it could never hope to escape from. It's too much like Alien to justify this new and tangental story, and the story is too different from Alien to justify the connection. While Alien is one of the greatest films of all time, Prometheus is just an average film that tried to wear shoes it could never fill.

C+

[japester]

Sounds like we're on the same page, Illusion. Bummer. I was hoping someone would point to some little bits I missed, and suddenly the whole movie would make sense. Heh.

Despite the problems that may be solved by a sequel, I don't think one is going to happen. However, I do hold out a small hope that an extended director's cut may be released on blu-ray that will improve the experience.

The faithful are going to give this a decent opening, but if we all feel similarly after seeing it, it may tank disastrously after that.

[Fugue]

Thought it was ok but his weakest film by a long way, he has already dabbled in the some of the films thought provoking ideas with Blade runner which worked on almost level, this just wasn't the same satisfying journey, ok it took a few attempts to get Blade runner right but not sure any number of directors cuts could save Prometheus but the film badly needs one.

Didn't like the cast apart from Fassbender and the script/acting was poor, lost opportunity to expand on the alien universe, was really excited when I heard about the film and seeing clips of the space jockey but it was all a bit of a mess, pretty but shallow, which reflects modern cinema I guess.

Made the mistake of watching Alien again the night before I went to see it, think my expectations were too high but its hard to believe they're from the same director, was hoping for a film that expanded on the universe which it did but left me with too many questions and I'm not sure I can sit through a trilogy of films like that

A triumph of clever marketing.

Said recently another blade runner film is in very early stages of writing, good help us.

Oh and i still really hate 3D, cinemas should have to show 2D as well instead of having a stupid gimmick forced on us

[IllusionOfLife]

Despite the problems that may be solved by a sequel, I don't think one is going to happen. However, I do hold out a small hope that an extended director's cut may be released on blu-ray that will improve the experience.

Scott has said that this version of the film *is* his Director's Cut, but we'll see if he stands by that statement in the long run. The man has an almost pathological need for multiple versions of his films.

Oh and i still really hate 3D, cinemas should have to show 2D as well instead of having a stupid gimmick forced on us

This is a tangental point, but I think at this point people need to accept that, for good or for bad, 3D is here to stay. Yes, in some cases it's used as a gimmick to unnecessarily inflate ticket prices (see every single movie that's received a 3D conversion in post-production), but there are also films in which the 3D is taken into consideration right from the beginning and is used to enhance the whole experience. Films like Hugo, How to Train Your Dragon, TRON: Legacy, and even Prometheus, I feel are improved by the inclusion of 3D. Obviously it doesn't work for every film, but when it is used as a tool by the filmmaker to enhance the work it can achieve quite a stunning effect.

The biggest things hampering 3D (in my opinion) are the fact that it significantly dims the projected image and the fact that theaters are charging a premium for it. If there was no premium charge for 3D there would be no reason for studios to impose 3D conversions onto films that don't need it and 3D would be reserved as a tool for artists to use if they so desire rather than a gimmick a studio can impose to earn $2-3 extra per ticket.

[Fugue]

Scott has said that this version of the film *is* his Director's Cut, but we'll see if he stands by that statement in the long run. The man has an almost pathological need for multiple versions of his films.



This is a tangental point, but I think at this point people need to accept that, for good or for bad, 3D is here to stay. Yes, in some cases it's used as a gimmick to unnecessarily inflate ticket prices (see every single movie that's received a 3D conversion in post-production), but there are also films in which the 3D is taken into consideration right from the beginning and is used to enhance the whole experience. Films like Hugo, How to Train Your Dragon, TRON: Legacy, and even Prometheus, I feel are improved by the inclusion of 3D. Obviously it doesn't work for every film, but when it is used as a tool by the filmmaker to enhance the work it can achieve quite a stunning effect.

The biggest things hampering 3D (in my opinion) are the fact that it significantly dims the projected image and the fact that theaters are charging a premium for it. If there was no premium charge for 3D there would be no reason for studios to impose 3D conversions onto films that don't need it and 3D would be reserved as a tool for artists to use if they so desire rather than a gimmick a studio can impose to earn $2-3 extra per ticket.

Maybe it's my eyes, yet to see a film that 3d improved at all, even Hugo which actually tried to make good use of it looked wrong, I always see slight ghosting which is very distracting.

Would be very surprised if there isn't a DC, but it's not like his other films where at the heart is something good in the first place. Think i knew it was going to be bad after the "seeding" scene when there is a direct comparison with alien, waking up on a ship and the same banal talk which worked brilliantly in Alien and instantly made the characters likeable and believable, they were very wooden in Prometheus, maybe all trying to be robots.

So many things bugged me, so many plot holes, hard to believe it was a RS film.

[japester]

Ooh. That's disappointing to hear that RS said this was his preferred cut. Damn.

I just tried to make sense of the alien breeding/propagating scenarios played out in the film....and now I'm actually a little angry. Holy hell, it was a mess! We had a nice little mythology built around the basic alien life cycle, with some variation based on the species of the host. Then this movie adds in several crazy vectors (at least four) and a mish-mash of results that don't seem to follow any pattern. Blearg!

If someone doesn't clear this up for me, I may need a "Prometheus" support group. LOL

EDIT: Okay, I came across a possible explanation that seems to fit the plot. Just to be safe, I'm going to spoiler tag it.
It's all about the goo. I was getting hung up on the snakes (in the vase room), the squid baby, the enraged zombies (human and engineer), and the proto xenomorph. But none of those really matter. It's the goo. It breaks you down and makes you more deadly and aggressive. Different amounts have different effects. The mealworms became snakes. The geologist became angry zombie. A tiny drop started to change the main dude, but he was fried first. However, his sperm became crazy deadly and made squid baby. Etc.

What do you guys think? If this sounds plausible, we can remove the spoiler tags and dig in. I just don't want to give away so many plot points if it's a dead end.

Plus, this doesn't explain some of the really bone-headed moments like:
How does the guy with the map get lost?
When you see a new form of life, what's the best way to approach it?
When someone rings your bell and escapes custody, how long before you go after them?

[Fugue]

Ooh. That's disappointing to hear that RS said this was his preferred cut. Damn.

I just tried to make sense of the alien breeding/propagating scenarios played out in the film....and now I'm actually a little angry. Holy hell, it was a mess! We had a nice little mythology built around the basic alien life cycle, with some variation based on the species of the host. Then this movie adds in several crazy vectors (at least four) and a mish-mash of results that don't seem to follow any pattern. Blearg!

If someone doesn't clear this up for me, I may need a "Prometheus" support group. LOL

EDIT: Okay, I came across a possible explanation that seems to fit the plot. Just to be safe, I'm going to spoiler tag it.
It's all about the goo. I was getting hung up on the snakes (in the vase room), the squid baby, the enraged zombies (human and engineer), and the proto xenomorph. But none of those really matter. It's the goo. It breaks you down and makes you more deadly and aggressive. Different amounts have different effects. The mealworms became snakes. The geologist became angry zombie. A tiny drop started to change the main dude, but he was fried first. However, his sperm became crazy deadly and made squid baby. Etc.

What do you guys think? If this sounds plausible, we can remove the spoiler tags and dig in. I just don't want to give away so many plot points if it's a dead end.

Plus, this doesn't explain some of the really bone-headed moments like:
How does the guy with the map get lost?
When you see a new form of life, what's the best way to approach it?
When someone rings your bell and escapes custody, how long before you go after them?

Or when they trigger the hologram of the engineers running into the room and find one body outside who didn't quite make it, where did the others go?

What about the stuff that David discovers before messing with the panel?

Why do androids need any form of blood when they can function in bits. Always botherd me..

The *** and it's seemingly random effect on all manner of things whether ingested or touched was just too much imo, read a few explanations after on various sites but which could plug a few holes but there was no reason for it to be so complicated in the first place. It's probably the key to it all and not a bad idea to potentially explain the origins of the alien and the link with the space jockey.

Thing that looks like snake, let's make friends with it, minutes before they were going away from the life form blip sums the film up really.

At least no one was stupid enough to take their helmet off.

[Atlas-]

I'm going to open with a crazy statement, I liked Prometheus.

I know I must be mental but I really liked it, the ship was wonderfully done both inside and out. It was reminiscent of the Nostromo but was much sleeker as befitted it's role. The set meant that I felt like I was in the same universe as Alien but it still felt like a world in it's on right. The whole look of the film was incredible for me, it utilised the modern technology to create something that was inspiring without going over the top.

As for the Acting I didn't find anything wrong with how most of them played there part. For me the three that stood out where the Female scientist, the android and the Woman in charge. I thought all three portrayed there characters really well.

As for the story I was very happy with how it ended. I would of been disappointed if it all tied together in a nice little bow. The fact that it left some mysteries to be thought about made it more interesting for me. I know for a lot of people there was too much left out but i guess it comes down to personal preference, I prefer films that give you a lot to think about.

The way I see it the goo was a bio weapon of mass destruction, the engineers designed it to destroy mankind for some reason. It works by rewriting the DNA of any creatures it comes into contact with. They then become killers and wipe out other life forms. This way half of the life is destroyed by it's DNA being rewritten and the other half is eaten by the new life. They could start a war with one drop. The thing in the medi-tube was goo/human and the the alien was goo/engineer and so was far more deadly. That's my take on it anyway. I don't really get where any plot holes our though.

[japester]

If the goo is a weapon of mass destruction, why did the one engineer in the beginning willingly take it as part of some ritual? Seems they would do that in a lab or something rather than spill it into the water supply.

If the PR campaign and the opening of the film are geared around the message "they left us a map as an invitation" and then they prove we share the same DNA, why are the engineers supposedly intent on wiping us out with their new weapon? I can believe we are a petri dish of less-evolved engineer clones, and that they want to test on us, but then why leave maps to their base?

The effects of the goo are also so varied (no two alike) that it seems they didn't entirely think it through. Why are some people slightly modified (like the killer zombie types) and others completely transformed?

As for the acting, I've heard other people say they liked it, too. For me, the characters generally struck me as throwaway types that were underutilized. Even David just came across an unabashedly sinister, like his betrayal was a foregone conclusion from the start. But what most bugged me were things done to clumsily advance the plot, such as the one scientist putting his face next to the cave worm/snake and the way the lead female brained the two people in biohazard suits (who were still conscious), and yet nobody mounted any pursuit or even mentioned it again. She ran away, had plenty of time to do the big surgery scene, and came back without so much as a dirty look. That bugged me. But I agree the ship was beautiful!

[IllusionOfLife]

I would of been disappointed if it all tied together in a nice little bow. The fact that it left some mysteries to be thought about made it more interesting for me.

I'm fine with mysteries. I like when a movie gives you something to think about. Ambiguity is great, when it's done right. Here, however, I don't think it was done right. This film was ambiguous to the point where it didn't give you *any* answers; for two hours the movie asked you questions and then ended with a statement saying "you want answers? Come see the sequel that may or may not ever get made."

The movie was technically very well made. As I mentioned in my review, the performances were very good with a truly remarkable performance by Michael Fassbender; the production design was fantastic, the special effects were well done, it was beautifully shot, etc. The story, though, the most important element, is where the whole thing fell apart. By following the plot beats of Alien note for note the thing became bland and predictable, and by providing questions without bothering to give any answers the movie becomes frustrating and mucks up the backstory to Alien. It's not so much that there are plot holes in the traditional sense, but the film seems to have what I like to call "Temple of Doom syndrome:" Its as if the filmmakers said "oh, wouldn't it be cool if…" and "hey, wouldn't it be neat if…" and shoved all these disparate ideas into the film without properly tying them together into a cohesive narrative. There was no main goal of this story, with every turn of the plot the goal shifted, and by the end you have six or seven goals that were left unresolved and that's just sloppy.

[IllusionOfLife]

Red Letter Media just reviewed Prometheus for Half in the Bag, and while I don't agree 100% they sum up a lot of the things I both liked and disliked about the film. It's technically a very very well made movie, with a story that just doesn't work and it's hard to pin down exactly why.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-prometheus/

[Fugue]

Its as if the filmmakers said "oh, wouldn't it be cool if…" and "hey, wouldn't it be neat if…" and shoved all these disparate ideas into the film without properly tying them together into a cohesive narrative.

It did seem like that was done to string together a series of action scenes, as if variety was more important than consistency.

Not sure about the WMD thing, the engineers chose to seed earth (if it was earth....) presumably to kickstart lifeforms similar to themselves which must have been for a purpose to be revealed, as is their reason for wanting to wipe it out but the random goo wouldnt extinguish all life would it since we've already seen it mutate. Even if the WMD was somehow used how could it effect a whole planet... That would take forever to wipe out all human life.

And no the invitation thing to justify finding out the engineers existed made no sense at all, all you can take from the opening scene is they landed so one could use his human like DNA then left, suggests lots of re writes were involved in the whole thing.

The more I think about it the story is a mess, all I wanted was some alien backstory and to know who the space jockey was

Edit and another thing...

Why would Weyland need to keep his presence on board a secret & try to fool them into thinking he was already dead they knew he was funding the project.

[Shiav]

The "goo" would be proto-cellular material that the Engineer in the beginning takes to seed the Earth with life. Why they do this and why they later want to kill the humans is the Plot-engine. This is mirrored in the relationship between David/Weyland, and partly explained. If you've ever watched the Big Bang Theory you know why they did it, it's the same reason why we build robots and why we send a signal all the way around the world to control the lights instead of use the switch. Because we CAN.

Thus the movie (and it's undoubtable sequel) focus on why "God" now hates "man" and why "man" turned away from "God" in the first place.

No, it was not a horror film, and no it was not as good as Alien. After all these years movies like Alien, Star Trek and Jurassic Park have become so iconic for their fans that anything else made with their label has to completely run away from what it was or be over shadowed. Star Trek makes a whole new universe, running away from the classic Kirk/Uhura/Bones/Spock dynamic, and is successful. JP 2/3 continue to have dinosaurs on an island with a big evil corporation not caring about anything but the bottom line, it flops. Prometheus is somewhere in between, it does well.

And the "milky" stuff that comes out of david is for his movement and to make him more human-like, it's not for operability.

[Atlas-]

Snip

It's nice to see someone else see's what I see, even if I didn't say it that well.

[Shiav]

It's nice to see someone else see's what I see, even if I didn't say it that well.

Great minds think alike, while fools they seldom differ.

I am a big fan of this area of science fiction, as I think it is going to be very relevant as we step into a more robotic future.

[Fugue]

It's far from a bad movie, but by his standards it's a bad Ridley Scott movie IMO.

[Atlas-]

It's far from a bad movie, but by his standards it's a bad Ridley Scott movie IMO.

I think it's very similar to Blade Runner, it uses great screenplay, minimal but effective dialouge and a futuristic setting to explore different issues. Both films while focusing on the issue don't slap you in the face with it. In Blade Runner you don't have them shouting and making speeches about what it is to be human, it is explored far more subtly and I think it's the same for Prometheus.

[Fugue]

I think it's very similar to Blade Runner, it uses great screenplay, minimal but effective dialouge and a futuristic setting to explore different issues. Both films while focusing on the issue don't slap you in the face with it. In Blade Runner you don't have them shouting and making speeches about what it is to be human, it is explored far more subtly and I think it's the same for Prometheus.

Two films are worlds apart for me, blade runner is a masterpiece after all... as I said earlier in the thread both films deal with "big" questions, Prometheus is more like blade runner than alien in that respect but he made another film in the Alien world then filled it with all sorts of thought provoking mumbo jumbo loosely tied together with goo and characters who only seem intent on making the most bizzare and illogical decisions

Didn't find anything subtle in Prometheus at all, the more I thought about it the more it annoyed me

Maybe it'll all come good three films later but im not optimistic.

[IllusionOfLife]

Great minds think alike, while fools they seldom differ.

http://youtu.be/-x1YuvUQFJ0

[Shiav]

Some good questions, some rather pointless ones (intended for humour, im guessing). It's hard to complain about the stupidity of the Prometheus crew (i mean, let's just pet this new snake-like xenomorph, right?) when the crew in Alien went full retard. Chasing after a gigantic predator who wants to hunt and kill you with small nets and ☺☺☺☺ty blow-torches is like polar bear hunting with a stick and a loincloth.

Plot-holes? What the hell was the dead thing sitting in the chair in Alien? Does nobody care about it? Hey, there's a space ship there! That means we aren't the only intelligent life in the galaxy! Eh, we'll get to it later.

The one suggestion I might make for Prometheus would be the reveal of the alien at the end. Seeing it full on burst out is nice for fanboys, but a creeping long shot fading out would have made a nicer, more "Ridley" finish.

[IllusionOfLife]

Some good questions, some rather pointless ones (intended for humour, im guessing). It's hard to complain about the stupidity of the Prometheus crew (i mean, let's just pet this new snake-like xenomorph, right?) when the crew in Alien went full retard. Chasing after a gigantic predator who wants to hunt and kill you with small nets and ☺☺☺☺ty blow-torches is like polar bear hunting with a stick and a loincloth.

Having watched the film recently, they actually do a really good job explaining exactly why they're stuck in this situation. Ash broke protocol to let them board the ship because he an android and ordered to do so by the company. They discuss leaving the ship early on in the movie once they discover that the creepy chest-burster has rapidly grown into a gigantic Alien monster, but they make a point of stating that the escape pod can only support three crew members. They're also a mining crew, they wouldn't have much in terms of weapons that would be effective against the alien so they made due with what they had. Trying to force the thing out the airlock by cutting off sections of the ventilation where it was hiding is actually a rather smart move, it just didn't work. As for the nets, those were only used when they were still under the assumption that it was still in its chest-burster stage, because there's no way to know that it would develop as quickly as it did.

Plot-holes? What the hell was the dead thing sitting in the chair in Alien? Does nobody care about it? Hey, there's a space ship there! That means we aren't the only intelligent life in the galaxy! Eh, we'll get to it later.

They never explicitly state it, but based on the reactions of the characters, I've always worked under the assumption that the revelation that there is other life in the universe is not a new thing (an idea supported by Prometheus, I might add). The crew of the Nostromo was not the first to discover extraterrestrial life, and, again, since they're miners, not scientists there's really not a whole lot of incentive for them to get all worked up over it. They're responding to the "distress" signal for the sole purpose of following protocol, then they're planning on heading back home to collect their paychecks.

In Prometheus, on the other hand, while the performances were all really good, the characters and their motivations were nonsensical.

[Fugue]

Alien does have its dumb character moments and cliches that most films fall back on for the sake of tension and drama, but its basically a film about space truckers and not scientists so it's easier to forgive them I guess and the small talk made them more believable. They were chasing the chest buster with nets not the huge predator, there was also an explained logic behind the flame throwers, but the logic kind of went when the alien grew rather quickly.....

Both have their inconsistencies but Prometheus is riddled with them and for me just wasn't a satisfying film to watch, it still annoys me now