Questions about Steam Workshop

[whoward69]

1) In ModBuddy, if I want to upload a new version of an existing mod, do I do it the "old way" (ie do a "new" upload") or do I have to remember to expand the existing mod entry and take the Update version? And what happens if I do this wrong?

2) If a collection is created and downloaded are all mods enabled/disabled as one "unit" within the game?

3) How do you add additional tags? Why can we not add "free text" tags (in the same way you can in Flickr)

4) How are versions handled? Can I selectively delete old versions to free up storage space?

5) Why is there no "Are you sure" confirmation when you click "Delete" for a comment - mistakes do happen (or in this case, when you're experimenting with the system)

6) Where are the "batch" operations (for editing lots of titles and/or descriptions, apply tags) - I want Flick-like features for Coollections

7) If I've edited the Title/Description and clicked Save, how do I get back to my Workshop - I can get back to the item, or mods in general, but there is no "My Workshop" link (in fact the Save button should not leave you in the edit screen but take you back to the item) - it's five clicks to edit a title - way to many (go look at Flickr to see how it should be done)

8) How do I tell it to remember that I want 30 items per page - it reverts AFTER EVERY OPERATION to 9 (which is pants, it should at least remember my settings for the current session)

9) How do I get email alerts of comments being added, and/or, how can I see a summary of all (recent) comments added to any mod (arranged by latest first)

I'm sure there will be others

[SamBC]

1) Not sure what happens if you do it 'wrong', but "upload new version" is the "right" way to do it.

2) Collections are only visible to Workshop, not to the game itself - so subscribing to one downloads all the elements (if the collection is set up that way), but they are activated/deactivated individually in the game. If dependencies worked for automatic activation as well as automatic deactivation, you could simulate that effect with a 'virtual' mod that has no content, but depends on all the mods in the collection (manually specified, of course).

3) I think you'd have to ask Valve about that, unless they let publishers individually say whether or not free text tags should be allowed on their games. I can think of reasons not to allow it in this sort of environment, though. Collections can effectively serve as an extra tag for some purposes (being able to view every mod in the collection versus with the tag), though it's controlled by the collection owner, not the mod owners.

4) I've only ever deleted mods by going into Windows Explorer and deleting manually... don't know if the game auto-deletes old version when it updates via Workshop.

5) Talk to Valve

6) Talk to Valve

7) Talk to Valve (though on most screens in Workshop there's a "my files" link, I think)

8) It reverts for me after I'm away from it for ages, not after every op. It does, however, go back to "most popular this week" with annoying frequency, which shows a more limited number (and I can't tell why). Also, talk to Valve.

9) I believe new comments will cause a Steam notification (the little envelope with a number by it that turns green when there are new things, in the Steam client). Also, talk to Valve.

Now, on all of the "talk to Valve" points, yes, maybe 2K/Firaxis could make those points as well. However, Valve do respond to customer feedback, and users are customers as well as publishers and developers. It might look like they're ignoring you when they don't reply, but I expect it gets fed into a hopper somewhere.

Also, a lot of the features you want weren't there on the old system either... so not sure why you're seeming so strident about them.

[whoward69]

Talk to Valve

"Talk to valve" should not be an acceptable reply from 2K/Firaxis - I am playing/modding Civ not a Value product. If I had a fault, complaint, request of a new car I would not go and find the manufacture of the carpet, bulbs, whatever used in the car, I would go and prod the car manufacture. I expect to report "concerns" to the manufacture - be that software or hardware - unfortunately a lot of software (integration) companies seem to have forgotten this.

Also, a lot of the features you want weren't there on the old system either

They wern't, but this is supposed to be a significant improvement on the old system and a "hot, new" system - to be honest the Workshop UI is about 5 years out of date in the way that it works / forces the user to work.

First impressions count - and they are not good.

[SamBC]

"Talk to valve" should not be an acceptable reply from 2K/Firaxis - I am playing/modding Civ not a Value product. If I had a fault, complaint, request of a new car I would not go and find the manufacture of the carpet, bulbs, whatever used in the car, I would go and prod the car manufacture. I expect to report "concerns" to the manufacture - be that software or hardware - unfortunately a lot of software (integration) companies seem to have forgotten this.

Well, I'm not from 2K or Firaxis. I'm just another modder. I'm just saying that getting new interface features may be quicker if you mention the feedback to Valve as well. Workshop as a whole has loads more users than Workshop for CivV. It's also still relatively new, so expect improvements. Given the way Valve apparently works (judging by the handbook doing the rounds online), customer feedback and engagement and enthusiasm is probably the thing most likely to get results.

I find the new system to be largely an improvement on the old - like being able to browse the mods without going into the game, for starters. Comment threads. Decent preview images. It's good stuff. The fact it isn't perfect shouldn't be cause for complaint. Feedback, yes, but not complaint.

[whoward69]

If this was 4 or 5 years ago, yes it would be a good system - if you have one or two mods it's probably an acceptable system, if you have more than 7 or 8 it will quickly become a pain (and it has)

There is no way to edit an entry other than to click, click, click, click and click - this is the age of DHTML/xHTML/jQuery/et al - I should be able to click on a title/description and edit it in place.

Restrictive tagging to a pre-set list has been shown time and time again to be worse than useless in a text-searchable system.

The interface is nowhere near adaquate, let alone anywhere close to perfect.

I could go on and on, but the upshot of this is that Steam Workshop feels like a web-interface that is five years behind the times.

[SamBC]

I don't think the restrictive tags are intended for text searching - they're intended for boolean/intersection searching. You tick boxes. I presume the free-text search actually searches a properly weighted index incorporating the tags, but focussed on the descriptions, titles and so forth.

When you have free text tagging, and can search them in boolean fashion, then you end up either with a poorly-usable system, a half-baked automated system that guesses which tags are really the same thing with different spellings, or needing a human being to manage which tags are equivalent or subsets of one another. Automated systems for this usually run into problems quite quickly. AO3 (a fanwork archive run by OTW) use the human intervention approach, and it can get messy at times.

If you don't want to be able to boolean search and actually get everything that was intended to be tagged "religion" (or, for something not in the current tag-set, "asia", say), not just those where the author spelled it correctly and didn't make a typo, or use an unanticipated synonym, then free text works fine without any intervention, of course.

I'm sure the devs will consider adding any new tags that make sense. If it would be a tag that's limited to your work, then maybe a collection would be more appropriate.

[whoward69]

I don't think the restrictive tags ... SNIP

Couldn't disagree more. Been doing this stuff for almost 25 years and there have been a fair few advances in linguistic analysis in that time - it happens to be one of the things computers are good at. And there are any number of free 3rd libraries out there to help do it. But this just comes back (again) to the fact that the Workshop implementation is at least 5 years behind the curve.