Hello,
One more thing which I missed in original x-com is a "market place" to sell/buy weapons with fluctuating prices.
It would be cool if there was some kind of "market" in action...
Maybe the aliens could even secretly buy weapons from x-com itself, that would be cool !
Bye,
Skybuck.
that would be the "BLACK MARKET"One more thing which I missed in original x-com is a "market place" to sell/buy weapons with fluctuating prices.
i was also hoping it would be present in the game as it was a very reliable source of funds. alien corpse anyone?
I think it's changed up somewhat. Someone made a reference to only being able to sell things once a month, but I think it come in more as a trade. You build fifteen laser rifles for Japan who gives you ten engineers or something. Germany wants four sectoid corpses and will give you 36K for it. Who knows.
Yes, Jake has said that it's a more "formalized" system now (PAX Panel). I think you will get trade requests from countries and the request/compensation will vary.Originally Posted by Inkidu
I don't believe there is a open buy-produce-sell system any more.
I think that models market fluctuation well enough. Why would an alien corpse always be worth 8000 credits? Once everyone who wants a corpse has one, wouldn't the price tank?
The money system in XCOM94 was a nice fiddly bit, just like limited ammo or cannon fodder were. But I never really liked the end result of it - having to make a medkit cottage industry, using the transfer exploit to save money (if you put the engineers in a plane, and they're in the air at 2359 on the 31st, you don't have to pay salary for them on the 1st), and so on.
Hopefully this concept fits the theme better - you're a commander first, and you take your opportunities for profit as they come up, purely to fund the effort. But money should only be a central focus if you're failing.
I like having the "economy" part stripped down to the bare essentials. At one point in the original, you just didn't need to have funding nations since you could just keep producing and selling stuff yourself. The money given by the funding nations seemed like a pittance once you reached a certain point. Now, it seems that you have to ensure that your money flow is defended and losing a significant partner will cost you dearly. Me gusta.
Indeed - no more living on Sectoid Corpses.
When I first played x-com I simply kept stocking up all the items that were collected from missions, I didn't know what to do with it, I didn't know if I needed it later in the game... I kept building warehouses/stocks(general stores I think they were called) or something... then after playing the game for a year or so I figured out I could simply sell all that stuff and make millions lol !
Especially elerium or ethereal or some fuel substance like that was worth a lot... also in the sequals... simply by doing missions and collecting the crashed ufo's millions could be made... so indeed the funding of the nations was not required anymore.
When I played x-com I kinda hoped that the civilians buying my weapons and stuff/which I sold to them... would start helping the fight or something.
I imagined how happy they must have been with buying this stuff from me, something they could otherwise not get their hands on...
It would be awesome if some civilians in terror missions had weapons to defend themselfes, or even x-com weapons ! whicked !=D
Also the "men in black" concept sounds nice... maybe they can buy the weapons from me... like the plasma guns which I had plenty of after shooting many aliens... I really hope the remake will have some friendly ai helping the player at... that would be truely awesome... like more organizations trying to help the world or something... they live in secret like you... but sometimes there is a bit of contact or maybe even together play or so, that would rock it for me !
There should also be some worry/fear that they might have been infiltrated by aliens, so some distrust would be nice... this is also a bit of a hint towards the sequels... though I think infiltration already belongs in x-com itself... since nations turn over etc. Even more cool would also be if there are bad/evil organizations which choose the side of the aliens, are were forced by the aliens, and they trying to deceive the player and ultimately end up playing against the player as well, maybe a base raid/fight that would be cool
I really hope this is in the game. The game just wouldn't be the same with out the market. The market in Apoc was setup extremely well for its age. I can understand why they want to change it though, it will stop us rolling in $$.
I always thought it would be very cool to see the official market where prices are fixed but over priced... but then also a black market where there are some random bargins but you have the chance of getting ripped off. If you are caught using the black market your funding from a country will drop off. Apoc had the psyclone drug that you could get from radom rooms in the slums and sell on the market. The coments were if you were caught selling it you would get in trouble but it was never built into the game. Would've been cool to see that little added extra detail.
In the old game The funding nations is a gameplay mechanic that was easily bypassed, hence was actually broken as a mechanic. In the new version i hope it is not easily made redundant. Selling Alien tech should only allow faster base facility & manpower expansion.
Or extra cash, but not in the millions. Don't need troops? Don't need scientists? However, you want to pay for that new Foundry/OTS upgrade? Here' you go slugger, don't spend it all in one place. Money should be a kind of crack filler, nice little bonuses. I agree that the old mechanic could get ludicrously out of hand.
I would like if they made it more easier to sell and manage the general storage. It would be nice if say you can put a limit on how many plasma rifles you can have storage and the excess can be sold automatically. I always hated having to constantly go into the bases general storage every time I come back from a mission. Transfering stuff from bases was also confusing sometimes as you could not following see each base inventory all on one screen and had to keep jumping back and forth to see what bases had an excess of stuff that could be transfered to other bases that needed it.
I didn’t like the “making money through medkits” exploit in the original game. And I wouldn’t like a similar system in the new one. But it looks that this mechanic is gone. At least, the alien weapons self-destruct when the wearer dies, so you will never get a horrendous amount of weapons to sell. And you have only one base with limited space, so building a giant factory is not possible.
I also hope that the trades that are mentioned above are about something that you could use yourself, so that you have to decide what to give away. Trading away some materials that get you a new research topic or are essential for one of your construction projects is a decision, trading away some sectoid corpses that are rotting in your storage is a gift.
you will get a horrendous amount of WEAPON FRAGMENTS this time around.At least, the alien weapons self-destruct when the wearer dies, so you will never get a horrendous amount of weapons to sell.
I like this discussion so far. I think it's important to awknowledge that there are more than one form of assets in the game.
1: $/credits - the foundation of liquidity
2: funding nations - a source of $, but more importantly a victory/loss mechanic
3: Technology - a source of military/response strength, and presumably a Necessary victory pathway
4: soldier experience - adds to military/response strength
5: Base/Ship/Equiptment - support any/all of the above
6: Time: presumably as the game goes on, it will get harder. Players are pushed to move quickly to victory, or eventually be crushed by mounting alien pressures & country funding loss.
A successful economy doesn't involve just $, but all the game assets. Choosing to research ground weapons, or improved training facilities, or interrogating sectoid commanders; these are examples of transactions bought with time & technology.
Bumping the post because I love economics.
Interesting, I wouldnt mind being able to "give away" alian tech for offloading some of the research time.
Sort of a "Heres some alian stuff for free, but I want any research derived from its study"
even if another country was slower than XCOM guys, you could be researching something eles while you offload some research matirials......
Who know's maybe it's (Weapon Fragments + Alien Alloy) = Weapon.you will get a horrendous amount of WEAPON FRAGMENTS this time around.
That's what I suspect to honest. There may well be things beyond Elerium-115 (If it's in) that you will be unable to manufacture. Not to mention, other research might need significant numbers of the things.
My guess is they will keep research-currencies and manufacturing-currencies different. Weapon fragments probably are used to research. Things like alien alloys and Elerium-115 are probably used for manufacturing.
I have no proof to this, just a hunch.
Yes, but it might make an interesting mechanic if you had to choose between sticking with the laser guns to get better gear later or using the weapon fragments to make alloy cannons and sniper rifles and hoping you can gather enough parts later.
I would really love if Research and Manufacturing shared the same resources, then you would always have to make a strategical decision if you get strong gear now or invest in even stronger gear later on.
I know what the first reaction to that would be(at least a few months ago): They're dumbing down the game!!!!!
That shared resource is money.
I'd be cool either way. The reason I have a hunch they will keep them separate is simply because its a little too straightforward of a"short term" vs "long term" choice. Research pays off later, manufacturing pays off now. Players will already have this choice via base building/upgrading choices. Players want to be able to give their soldiers cool gear, but they don't want to feel that doing so will hurt them in the long-run.
Players will probably still have the ability to prioritize manufacturing vs research anyway by prioritizing base building & upgrades, so the tactical component you mentioned will still be there. My guess is though that it won't be redundant within the mission artifact currency system as well.
Cash is all well and good, but there's some things that money will not buy-Actual love and alien unobtainium are two of those things.I would really love if Research and Manufacturing shared the same resources, then you would always have to make a strategical decision if you get strong gear now or invest in even stronger gear later on.
And I would imagine that some resources will (after their research) will only be used for making things. And some will only be good for research purposes. It would depend on the resource in question.
The problem with games where you have TOO much liquidity between currency types, is that they can very quickly be reduced to math exploits. Suppose you could trade/buy/sell all currency types with absolute ease; $, veterancy, research, manufacturing, base upgrades, etc. If there's no loss of value between trades, then the game boils down to a simple question of which path yields the highest rate of return. It doesn't take long for gamers to find this optimal strategy, post it online, and have every gamer in the world doing it.
My example is an extreme scenario, however there are plenty of games which venture too far and and as a result become a calculable game of investment math. Breaking currencies into non-liquid pieces makes exploits less easy to capitalize on, and makes it easier to allow diversity in game-play strategies.
I played one game called: "Startrek Online" it also has some kind of "market" called an "exchange".
Prices for goods somewhat fluctuate there... it's based on what players are willing to sell and buy for
Maybe it could be fun if x-com had something like that. The game consists out of "levels". So each player has a "level".
For example I could be at level 5 so I am only allowed to trade with other players of level 5.
Then we the players could sell and buy stuff from each other and get a sense of "world wide" fighting against the aliens.
We are allowed to help each other out, but just with a limited ammount of items per player.
For example if I have extra laser pistols I might sell them off for something, or trade them for something else I need, maybe for a medikit or something.
This way the players still get somewhat of an enjoyable and fun multiplayer experience by trading
something I saw which was odd was in one of the video demos a medkit was 25 credit and and entire satellite uplink was 50 credits?
Love it!
I hope it's all for exchange in some form or another.
Someone also mentioned a black market. Yes! The funding council can't be the only parties interested in what you have.
Ofcourse, because they're shady dealings, you can take negative penalties for more resources. Increasing a nation's panic level or affecting troop moral for example.
I liked the "black market" from the original. Later on in the game you simply couldn't rely on funding nations as that just didn't get you enough cash to go crazy with building the best ships and gear... Re-purposing a base or two to do nothing but produce items for sale, even more than use, was awesome!
Adjusting values for items would have been great (you know, the real-world supply and demand concept) and being able to sell certain items to the funding nations and later being able to see these nations use these items would be even cooler! Germany sending in its own Avenger with laser cannon equiped soldiers where you sold them the laser cannons and the Avenger! I always thought that would have been rather nice... I always like being able to see the effect of my hard work in a game
I supose that would just be to complicated and time consuming for today gaming market though? Seems that I am one of the few gamers still alive that actaully likes complexity in a strategy game...
As for the transfer scientist seconds before pay-day trick, I did that once... just to see if it actaully worked. Made the game to easy if you keep using it.
Have to say I always had one base for manufacturing (and radar station). It wasn't really used for anything else. The funding nations never seemed to pony up enough money. Seems like this will be similar, but probably without a semi-easy way to make up for that. I'll have to learn to be more picky about which things I build, research, etc.
In response to chatter about the black market, and assuming that it does exist.
It probably won't be as luctrative as before, or at least, it won't be without trade off. They have already announced that players will no longer get dropped weapons or equipment off aliens. Instead, players will get alien weapon fragments, alien alloys, ellerium 115, and other more generic currency types. These currencies are used for research and manufacturing. Research now flows like a tech tree, and uses increasing quantities of alien artifacts each step of the way.
This means that, if you do sell the alien weapon fragments and other materials, you have less to research and manufacture with. It's not like the first game where you have 100 heavy plasma guns that you don't need and can easily sell off for a fortune.
I really like the rumored new system. It means there is more decision making in how you leverage your resources.
"I really like the rumored new system. It means there is more decision making in how you leverage your resources." You really think so? Sounds simplified to me? Instead of having page after page of itmes to sort thru... seems you have only a handfull of resources?
Does anyone know if you have limited storage? I don't recall seeing store rooms in the "ant farm".
I think I'll miss that, I would always stockpile Heavy Plasma's and then suddenly realize that I have WAY more then I will ever need. Sell them off and suddenly have enough money to built that research base in the South Pole
I will also add that I have a hunch that time is going to be a much more critical resource in the new game. Before the original game could stretch out pretty much as long as you wanted so long as you were doing well at missions. I have a feeling that this will change.
Total speculation here, but in-line with more modern game balancing trends. I think they will make it so that panic level rises such that eventually even with completely successfull missions it's impossible to hold off. This means that you WILL be losing funding nations, and once you lose 8 of the 16 it's game over.
On the flip side, you will be getting increasing quantities of alien artifacts. These can be leveraged into research, manufacturing, and $ to help push you to where you have increased military and response strength. This will push you to the point where you have the strength and technology to complete the final mission (cydonia?) and win the game.
My guess is that these two forces will be Pivoted around a certain overall game length. It may be impossible for the game to last over 2 years due to panic level, but impossible for you to win in less than 1 due to maximum possible response/tech strength. This will lead the average game to be about 1.5 years, with some variability based on performance and decision making.
Umm.. You mean like a 'Rage Timer'?? Geez.. come on, if we implement this, I will petition Jake to officially change the name to "World of Xcom-craft" There is zero reason why they should force us to start the final mission. There is no point in them trying to end the game on their terms, as opposed to just letting us play the thing and decide ourselves when the time is right.
The elegance of this mechanic is that it provides a way of penalizing players for failures without crippling their ability to respond. If a player loses a mission and all their soldiers, the soldiers and gear can be relatively easily replaced is my guess. Otherwise, it creates a snowball effect where 1 lost mission makes the next failure all more the certain.
So instead, losing a mission mostly means losing time and gaining panic. Another country stops funding you, bringing you closer to failure. This gives losses teeth, but doesn't make them cripple you.
It need not necessarily be impossible for the game to last forever, but it should be increasingly difficult. If it Isn't, then the game really has no teeth, and there's no fear of loss.
Maybe after 5 months of gameplay, the aliens should cause fire to appear on the ground at your soldiers feet. Your guys would start taking 1 dmg per 2 turns. For each additional day of gameplay, the fire causes an additional 1 pt of damage per 2 turns. At 2 days, the aliens gain the 'Blessing of the Greys' buff, which regenerates 1 hp per 2 turns. Finally, if combat goes beyond 10 turns, the second rage time kicks in, and all aliens project plasma in all directions, with a 50% 'to-stun' and adds 10 to dps.
I kid, I kid. I am sure the challenge will ramp up, but there shouldn't be a 'wall' that you hit, at which time you have to start the final mission or essentially concede the game.
I have a vague recollection of Jake talking about selling stuff off, or rather how XCEU deals with that. It was something about a council nation asking for a shipment of those nifty new laser rifles you'd just produced. If you did then they'd send you 4-5 new scientists who would boost your research, but then your troops wouldn't have the nifty new guns. If you didn't... There is info out there, but it is so scattered in all sorts of videos and interviews. (The sticky topic at the beginning of the forums is great, but doesn't cover every last detail).
So who knows how the finances and such will really go.
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As for time -- I think you'll be able to draw it out. Again, from some of the video interviews it *seems* like you can stretch out the game to research/build more than "normal". But you really have to go to extreme efforts. I'm guessing if you are already at that point in the game then you can probably beat it without all the extra work. But as always -- we just don't know.
When the timer runs up, it will automatically switch to ironman. It will also lock-enable the glam cam, remove all indoor environments, make soldier skins 3x more "tooney", give you hundreds of ridiculous achievements, and disable smoke grenades.
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