Best weapon type shouldn't always be Plasma.

[ghaza]

I was quite relieved that there is a mix of late game "best tech" that is not Plasma ☺based on the latest video release showing late game terror mission. Hopefully this isn't just deliberate setup by the dev.

I think it would be rather boring to have the best sniper rifle, assault rifle, shot gun & pistol always be derived from Plasma technology. That shouldn't be the case. Laser tech or kinetic tech should offer something that Plasma lack at different armament type. ☺Although on average the Alien tech should be best at most situation.

Maybe Plasma can be best at medium range damage. But Kinetic (bullet) adds knock back at the same range although less damaging. And Laser type weapon suffers no long rang penalty but alerts the enemy of the origin of the shot. Weight variation also can be applied to the tech type, where some hinders soldier movement. Different tech type weapons have varying affect to different aliens.

[Inkidu]

I don't know if it'll be like that, but the foundry is supposed to let you "modify" your weapons. So if it's what I think it is I hope to be using highly advanced Terran projectile weaponry. I always enjoyed vanilla military games. Ever do Cydonia with rifles, pistols, ACs, HCs, and rocket launchers? It's fun.

(I'm not totally suicidal, they had good armor, but alien tech and psionics were unclean... (I of course farmed for high psi-defense, again not suicidal). I was always disappointed by the lack of terran tech in the original.

It's called a bullet you alien bastards. It sounds the same in every language.

[Clayton Cross]

I agree with both of you, I would like to see some human tech like rail guns and Gauss rifles added to the game, and plasma rifle should be for assult and/or support, heavy plasma for .... well the heavys, and snipers should use a different tech like and alien human hybrid laser rifle. The end game Psionic class should use pistols (in part to justify there existence) for strong mined aliens and mind attacks for well anything not ethereals or sectoids I guess. (Maybe have an alien that's too "dumb" or animistic to mind control (Chrysalids?). I don't mind some weapons being generally better but it would be nice if you know what your attacking and some times stepping back or at least to a different type of tech could be useful. Maybe I use plasma but ethereal can disperse it and deflect bullets with there telekinetic abilities, so I carry a laser pistol as a backup weapon just in case. I do think plasma should be generally the best weapons end game, just some reasonable veriations would be nice. (I like that you REALY want to use the rocket launcher on Berserk-er mutons.

[Dn0uk]

It's called a bullet you alien bastards. It sounds the same in every language.

Ha! quote of the week right there, if only there was a way to include it in the soldier speak instead of the stereo typical grunt chatter!

[TheFinn]

I won't add anything to the thread. I love the idea of more weapon options. I mainly wanted to chime in because this:

It's called a bullet you alien bastards. It sounds the same in every language.

LMAO! Bravo sir!

I agree THIS should be voiced into the game.

[SectoidSquisher]

The best weapon should be whatever the aliens come up with. They're hundreds, if not thousands of years ahead of us. I hope they come up with something after plasma - something we can't reproduce, I always found it diluted the end game that we were pretty much on the same level as them by the end.

[Inkidu]

The best weapon should be whatever the aliens come up with. They're hundreds, if not thousands of years ahead of us. I hope they come up with something after plasma - something we can't reproduce, I always found it diluted the end game that we were pretty much on the same level as them by the end.

Actually though I would like to see combo-tech. If you research the alien version of a shotgun the product you produce should look like a mix of ours and there's, but I won't be horribly disappointed.

[TheFinn]

The best weapon should be whatever the aliens come up with. They're hundreds, if not thousands of years ahead of us. I hope they come up with something after plasma - something we can't reproduce, I always found it diluted the end game that we were pretty much on the same level as them by the end.

Not necessarily true. Every culture and species will have it's own perceptions and blindspots. Weapons and tactics are always developed in response to the tactics and capabilities of your enemies. The alien technologies would have been designed to respond to whatever threats exist to them 'back home'. And a lot of technological improvement come from the combining of cultures and mindsets - culture A invents something that eventually finds it's way to culture B who then see a new, unique use for the technology and that use makes it way back to culture A who incorporate it and improve upon it for their use.

The easiest way to conquer Earth would be with bio-weapons. Create a virus deadly to humans - or raid the CDC in Atlanta, The Pastuer Institute in France, or others - and steal some strands of Ebola virus (among others) and genetically modify it to be more deadly and get rid of the virii's weakness to UV and chemicals. Then use the Thin Men to introduce it into our society, back off, and then invade during the chaotic aftermath of having another Black Plague ravage the world.

The aliens don't do this in XCOM though. Good thing - as it would be a very different game. It could be they've never considered the idea of 'weapons of mass destruction'. Or that something in their own history/culture/religion makes the use of such weapons so abhorrent they don't even use them against the enemy. It could even be one of the reasons we're invaded... after hoping (and maybe nudging) humanity to destroy itself during the cold war and failing, the aliens have realized that invading might be the only way to keep the race of violent, self-destructive monkeys from spreading into the galaxy and creating havoc.

Whatever late game Terran tech exists will be heavily influenced by alien technology but it will be married to human thought processes and experience. The weapons we develop will be in direct response to the current alien threat. Also, say you understand how plasma works and how to build plasma weapons... no one is going to say "Hey! I've got an idea for a gun that's *almost* as good as a plasma rifle!" Nope, the "eureka" moments will be how to take aspects of the plasma technology and make it even better.


oh.. for those of you who are interested in current real technology, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXECU3YKMfI

It's about a weapon system called Metal Storm. The first 2 minutes explain current gun technology and the information about Metal Storm starts at about 1:50. At 5 minutes and something mentions the ability to fire 40mm grenades at 250,000 rounds per minute.

[Huzardadi]

In the original lasers had a damage bonus to the Sectopods Sectopods
So plasma should not have always been the "go to".

[ghaza]

The best weapon should be whatever the aliens come up with. They're hundreds, if not thousands of years ahead of us. I hope they come up with something after plasma - something we can't reproduce, I always found it diluted the end game that we were pretty much on the same level as them by the end.

That's the problem, at the late game the strategy is always "Plasma, everybody go with the Plasma gun". Would be nice if the tech that is considered ultimate is different for a weapons type. Example, for an assault rifle maybe plasma tech is indeed the best gun for quickest kill but for a sniper rifle it could be laser tech that offers the best performance. You can still get Plasma sniper rifle and justification to equip it based on style of play, but it isn't the best sniper rifle you could have.

Sure the aliens are ahead of us by thousands of years, and they found out about Plasma earlier because its naturally occuring and easy to harnest in their home world and coincedentally, on earth Plasma kick serious ass at ambient Earth temperature & pressure between 30m to 100m.

But Laser, Laser is awesome at beyond 90m and it does huge damage to robotic circuits, only down side to it is that reveals the shooter. But the aliens couldn't have come up with Laser as they don't have the resource that produces it. this example make sense?

[Inkidu]

I keep hoping that I can got highly advanced bullet systems. I won't be horribly upset because I mean... it's lasers and plasma, but still it would be nice to kick their butts back to Uranus with good old fashioned gunpowder.

EDIT: I actually think Mass Effect had it right in a sense. The future of Terran weapon systems is probably rail-gun miniaturization so if that's the ultimate logical conclusion of Terran fire arms in XCOM I'd be happy.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to armor them up to the nines though.

[Listermarine Antisectoid]

I would just like to have even more creative choices and surprising "unlock it" choices for weaponry. New ways to say how much I love the alien incursion just can't be wrong!

[japester]

While I agree with the OP (every game ended with everyone sporting plasma plus a couple of blaster launchers), this is another topic that I think may not really apply to the new game.

X-COM was all about creating a bunch of units that were, for the most part, indistinguishable. Sure, you had a few favorites, but it was mainly a game where you were farming tech levels. Individual soldiers didn't mean much. So if a tech like plasma came along, everyone got it. No question.

With the much smaller squad sizes in XCOM:EU, and the emphasis on abilities, I think tweaking individual weapons is going to play a huge role. I'm guessing weapon loadouts are going to be based on which abilities you favor in each class, and each will have trade-offs. I expect weapons to have a lot more depth to them in this game, since you will be sporting so few per mission.

[RotGtIE]

I always liked the idea of a tech progression that would go something like follows:

Initial Terran Tech -> Improved Terran Tech -> Looted Alien Tech -> Terran-Improved Alien Tech

I like to see scenarios where superior enemy technology is not only taken and replicated, but also refined and improved.

[SectoidSquisher]

Not necessarily true. Every culture and species will have it's own perceptions and blindspots. Weapons and tactics are always developed in response to the tactics and capabilities of your enemies. The alien technologies would have been designed to respond to whatever threats exist to them 'back home'. And a lot of technological improvement come from the combining of cultures and mindsets - culture A invents something that eventually finds it's way to culture B who then see a new, unique use for the technology and that use makes it way back to culture A who incorporate it and improve upon it for their use.

The easiest way to conquer Earth would be with bio-weapons. Create a virus deadly to humans - or raid the CDC in Atlanta, The Pastuer Institute in France, or others - and steal some strands of Ebola virus (among others) and genetically modify it to be more deadly and get rid of the virii's weakness to UV and chemicals. Then use the Thin Men to introduce it into our society, back off, and then invade during the chaotic aftermath of having another Black Plague ravage the world.

The aliens don't do this in XCOM though. Good thing - as it would be a very different game. It could be they've never considered the idea of 'weapons of mass destruction'. Or that something in their own history/culture/religion makes the use of such weapons so abhorrent they don't even use them against the enemy. It could even be one of the reasons we're invaded... after hoping (and maybe nudging) humanity to destroy itself during the cold war and failing, the aliens have realized that invading might be the only way to keep the race of violent, self-destructive monkeys from spreading into the galaxy and creating havoc.

Whatever late game Terran tech exists will be heavily influenced by alien technology but it will be married to human thought processes and experience. The weapons we develop will be in direct response to the current alien threat. Also, say you understand how plasma works and how to build plasma weapons... no one is going to say "Hey! I've got an idea for a gun that's *almost* as good as a plasma rifle!" Nope, the "eureka" moments will be how to take aspects of the plasma technology and make it even better.


oh.. for those of you who are interested in current real technology, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXECU3YKMfI

It's about a weapon system called Metal Storm. The first 2 minutes explain current gun technology and the information about Metal Storm starts at about 1:50. At 5 minutes and something mentions the ability to fire 40mm grenades at 250,000 rounds per minute.

That's a very interesting post; you make some excellent points - some of which remind me a lot of an Alien Invasion documentary, where the aliens do indeed go down the bio-route - after EMPs and the like to send us back a few hundred years as far as technology is concerned. Of course either way would make for a completely different - and not as good - game.

[alexey7891]

The best weapon should always be : The blaster launcher =))))))))))good times

[SamBC]

A great advanced kinetic weapon system would be using alien power systems to develop assault-rifle or sniper rifle sized railguns.

[carldivine]

hybrid weapons would be nice. that would make weapon progression more interesting.

i love the blaster launcher! i maily employ it to level houses(i hate bug hunts inside houses), blast a hole in the alien crafts upper floors / alien base central command room and killing multiple aliens in one shot.

[LeftyRighty]

well there is a little hope, it's pretty much been confirmed that the cloaking tech for the ghost armour is purely earthborn, maybe we'll have some fancy guns too?

[MrJet]

Gentlemen. I give you the pinnacle of human firearms technology. Currently pure theory but quite possible.

It is called the Bolt.
In effect a two stage miniature rocket. Your round (the "bolt") is contained in a typical bullet casing with a normal gunpowder charge. That is the first stage. It is fired in the gun which propels the bolt out of the barrel and ignites the second stage. The second stage being a tiny rocket motor that increases the bolts speed dramatically the more distance there between you and the target.
Once it hits three things happen. Firstly the impact causes the time delay fuse for the explosive warhead to activate, then the armour piercing tip gets through all but the best protection in short order thanks to the fact that the bolt continues to accelerate after impact and finally once it has penetrated the time delay fuse ignites the explosive charge blowing a chunk out of the enemy.

Boom baby.

[SamBC]

Gentlemen. I give you the pinnacle of human firearms technology. Currently pure theory but quite possible.

It is called the Bolt.
In effect a two stage miniature rocket. Your round (the "bolt") is contained in a typical bullet casing with a normal gunpowder charge. That is the first stage. It is fired in the gun which propels the bolt out of the barrel and ignites the second stage. The second stage being a tiny rocket motor that increases the bolts speed dramatically the more distance there between you and the target.
Once it hits three things happen. Firstly the impact causes the time delay fuse for the explosive warhead to activate, then the armour piercing tip gets through all but the best protection in short order thanks to the fact that the bolt continues to accelerate after impact and finally once it has penetrated the time delay fuse ignites the explosive charge blowing a chunk out of the enemy.

Boom baby.

That's straight out of Warhammer 40k... but still a fascinating concept as a weapon.

[MrJet]

That's straight out of Warhammer 40k... but still a fascinating concept as a weapon.

It is straight out of 40K.
It was based on an existing weapon type called the gyrojet. With the addition of the explosive charge in the round and the first stage propellant charge. Both of which were proposed in design documentation for the next form of gyrojet weapon technology. However gyrojet weapons were eventually discarded after issues like cost, poor manufacturing of the rounds and no political will all left it without any cash.

[cahtush]

That's a very interesting post; you make some excellent points - some of which remind me a lot of an Alien Invasion documentary, where the aliens do indeed go down the bio-route - after EMPs and the like to send us back a few hundred years as far as technology is concerned. Of course either way would make for a completely different - and not as good - game.

Why not do the virus first, make it be "inactive" month, let it spread with ariplanes, boats and train. Then you activate it and EMP.

[TheFinn]

It is straight out of 40K.
It was based on an existing weapon type called the gyrojet. With the addition of the explosive charge in the round and the first stage propellant charge. Both of which were proposed in design documentation for the next form of gyrojet weapon technology. However gyrojet weapons were eventually discarded after issues like cost, poor manufacturing of the rounds and no political will all left it without any cash.

Have you checked out the Metal Storm weapon system? I linked it in an earlier post and there's a few youtube videos on it. It's cool tech.. nice to see someone updating gun technology.

[MrJet]

Metal Storm is a gimmick and a shoddy one at that. It doesn't really provide any benefits other than a high initial rate of fire.

[TheFinn]

Metal Storm is a gimmick and a shoddy one at that. It doesn't really provide any benefits other than a high initial rate of fire.

Ahh.. you HAVE seen Metal Storm then.. LOL. That was pretty much my response when a buddy showed it to me.

I do still think it's an interesting advancement.. and it is pretty impressive when it's firing - until it runs out of ammo an half second later. lol

[MrJet]

Ahh.. you HAVE seen Metal Storm then.. LOL. That was pretty much my response when a buddy showed it to me.

I do still think it's an interesting advancement.. and it is pretty impressive when it's firing - until it runs out of ammo an half second later. lol

And then takes half an hour to reload.

The gyrojet system offered real benefits. Such as increased accuracy over long ranges, greater penetrating power and medium to long range and gyrojet weapons were much lighter due to the barrels needing little reinforcement.
Metal Storm offers little.

[rharris]

I think. different Aliens should have different weaknesses. This was in the first game and I would have liked to see this expanded in this, so lazer tech would be better against sectoids for example, or something else. Anyway... this has been affected by no loadout in the Skyranger...

So, I dont think that you are getting to see the depth of tech that you are wanting to see. I imagine there will be a tree of reaseach that will feed this, but apart from that, i dont see it going any further than that. it's a pity, it could have been something that could have added to gameplay.

[DazzD]

I always liked the idea of a tech progression that would go something like follows:

Initial Terran Tech -> Improved Terran Tech -> Looted Alien Tech -> Terran-Improved Alien Tech

I like to see scenarios where superior enemy technology is not only taken and replicated, but also refined and improved.

I am with you on that but I like to see the trees branch out from each of those steps. When you find a weapon you really like using you can keep modding it and improving it without going to the next leap in technology.

One of the interviews, I think it was Jake who said that the alien weapons are hard to get and had to be earned. It made it sound like we might only have 1 or 2 of an alien weapon. The original xcoms I thought were a little too easy like that. You could get a good alien weapon and in no time research and manufacture enough for the whole squad to carry one. Sounds like the alien weapons will be rare and will force us to look after them more.

[carldivine]

I think it was Jake who said that the alien weapons are hard to get and had to be earned. It made it sound like we might only have 1 or 2 of an alien weapon.

in the new xcom, alien weapons self-destruct when aliens die(leaving behind weapon fragments), but remain intact if aliens are captured alive. so now it is imperative to capture live aliens to acquire working weapons for research and only then after it has been studied can you manufacture/equip it and add it to your arsenal.

so alien weapons are not rare, they are just a pain in the arse to acquire this time around.

[Inkidu]

I imagine, however, that alien fragments could be used in the foundry to modify your current weapons with special properties (but that's just conjecture). Four months of agony... agony and conjecture.

You know at the same time I want to curse the 2K FPS because I think the backlash of it brought out Enemy Unknown to head the rage off at the pass, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be excited for it right now.

Stupid double-edged sword... grumble grumble.

The idea of using the foundry to modify weapons intrigues me more than just capturing intact weapons. I see it as a viable if not as effective alternative to weapon research allowing me to focus on the OTS for instance.

[DazzD]

so alien weapons are not rare, they are just a pain in the arse to acquire this time around.

BRING ON THE STUN RODS, they can have some of that probing back

I imagine, however, that alien fragments could be used in the foundry to modify your current weapons with special properties (but that's just conjecture). Four months of agony... agony and conjecture.

You know at the same time I want to curse the 2K FPS because I think the backlash of it brought out Enemy Unknown to head the rage off at the pass, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be excited for it right now.

Stupid double-edged sword... grumble grumble.

The idea of using the foundry to modify weapons intrigues me more than just capturing intact weapons. I see it as a viable if not as effective alternative to weapon research allowing me to focus on the OTS for instance.

4 Months... but I want it nooooooooooooow I like the idea of the foundry upgrading weapons with the fragments brought back from the field. It means that the kills you get in the tactical are not totally usless.

[TheFinn]

...but remain intact if aliens are captured alive. so now it is imperative to capture live aliens to acquire working weapons for research and only then after it has been studied can you manufacture/equip it and add it to your arsenal.

I haven't seen this before. Has this been stated or is it a logical guess?

I'd be worried that it means capturing aliens unbalances the game. Unless they make capturing them significantly harder or more dangerous than it was in the original.

[carldivine]

I imagine, however, that alien fragments could be used in the foundry to modify your current weapons with special properties

i can see it now.... S.A.W. with DEPLETED ALIEN ALLOY ROUNDS. chew on that alien scum!

[carldivine]

I haven't seen this before. Has this been stated or is it a logical guess?

here you go...

I don’t know that I’ve ever talked about this before, but in our game the aliens don’t leave their weapons behind. When they die their weapons self-destruct but if you capture those aliens, then the weapons don’t self-destruct, and then you can research those.

- xcom eu lead designer as written on RPS article(Firaxis On XCOM vs Xenonauts & Optional Kill-Cam)

Unless they make capturing them significantly harder or more dangerous than it was in the original.

lead designer says:

because if you really want to get your hands on some of the great weapons you’re going to have to send some poor bastard in at close range with what we call the Arc Thrower. I never liked the small stun launcher in the original, I always liked that real terrible moment of ‘get in there with the stun rod’ and that’s basically what we have, we call it the Arc Thrower but it’s basically ‘get in there and pray to God when you pull this thing out that the alien falls over’.

does that define dangerous?

[TheFinn]

here you go...
...does that define dangerous?

I must have been really tired when I read that article.. I missed quite a bit..

I figured they'd tech up to grenades or something.

Ok.. that's cool. Yeah.. I think that might be dangerous enough.

[SupernovaXL]

I hope you can still train your men with psi powers. Oh the hours of fun I had making them drop there weapons and walk towards me. I even played with doing entire alien base missions with nothing but stun rods at that point.

Ok probably made the game too easy but I had fun

[Inkidu]

I hope you can still train your men with psi powers. Oh the hours of fun I had making them drop there weapons and walk towards me. I even played with doing entire alien base missions with nothing but stun rods at that point.

Ok probably made the game too easy but I had fun

There is a psionic class now. It can at least mind-control people.

[SupernovaXL]

There is a psionic class now. It can at least mind-control people.

Ahh fun times

[Dohon]

There is a psionic class now. It can at least mind-control people.

Class? I thought it was a type of armour that would allow that?