Graphics are not realistic enough and too toony.

[Aegeri]

(sigh)

So X-COM *never* tried being more realistic? Is that what your saying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMyPVpogqcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUQ1TebMGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCnRY...tailpage#t=43s
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...ddies-have.png

QED.

X-COM apocalypse is irrelevant, so I don't even care what it does because what matters here is the original (the actually undisputed good game of the series) was doing. The original was not gritty or realistic, which is my entire point and is what this game is based off. When you find "realistic" shots of the original you have a point, until then I don't care what the (IMO) increasingly bad sequels were doing.

Minding at least Apocalypse isn't Enforcer. There are several canyons of bad in between those.

TBH I'm still happily amazed every time I think of X-COM: EU that it didn't get crapped up with some kind of real time with pause being forced on top of the turn based system.

[Inkidu]

(sigh)

So X-COM *never* tried being more realistic? Is that what your saying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMyPVpogqcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUQ1TebMGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCnRY...tailpage#t=43s
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...ddies-have.png

QED.

Wouldn't you have to post XCOM pictures to actually prove your point? The developers have stated that they are only looking to UFO Defense/UFO: Enemy Unknown, and you come in with some TFtD and Apocalypse screens. That's kind of like apples and oranges. Yeah, they're both round and fruit, but still very different from one another.

[ste-V]

The dark humour of the original game is definitely present, and the action-figure style character design also keeps the mood light, but that same old mix of tension and impending doom still pervades the XCOM experience.

from the aussie article leftyrighty gloriously found. I think that hits the nail on the head. x-com was NEVER meant to be realistic, but satirical, ironic, and dark humor! so much for realistic graphics then, in the end of the day...there's just no need to for that, to catch the atmosphere...
also keep in mind: realistic graphics require high cpu specs, with that you reduce the number of customers able to play, and also the ability to port to ps3 & x-box (almost wrote x-com)!

[EarX]

Yo,

I personally like the style they've gone for. You can tell they're very conscious about getting the atmosphere right; nice and creepy like we remember the original to be. Nitty-gritty realism is just dull, if I want real I'll take a walk outside :P

[LeftyRighty]

actually one thing I really like with the graphics from what we've seen is that night missions are dark. Wonder if we'll get glowsticks again? lol

[ste-V]

actually one thing I really like with the graphics from what we've seen is that night missions are dark. Wonder if we'll get glowsticks again? lol

yes, night missions will be tough! looking great! and as for glowsticks: hasnt JS mentioned you'll get to research little pods, that you can throw out and they increase the sight for you? like a CCTV camera disk or something. I really like this idea!

[SectoidSquisher]

From a new article, credit goes to 'Lovecraft':

"It surprised us how fierce and sometimes violent the scenario is staged. Blood and splatter effects are not lacking, but none of it is grossly exaggerated and fits logically into the war and invasion scenario.

XCOM: Enemy Unknown is a mature title in every way. Tough scenario, hard in the game mechanics and hard in the claim."

Sounds gritty enough to me.

[Voqar]

I just like to write that I don't really like the graphics for x-com remake. It's ok-ish for a first 3D version, but I would rather see realistic graphics and realistic stuff, instead of cartoony nonsense.

Well, you're entitled to your own personal tastes and opinions, for sure, as is anyone else.

I happen to like computer games that have graphics that make them look like computer games and not like failed attempts at reality.

Such games usually tend to run smoother and even look better and more immersive. Realistic graphics usually tend to have flaws and when some things look realistic and others don't, the flaws stand out big time and crush the overall effect.

Not to mention I don't even remotely see how you could do a shooter-like attempt at realistic graphics in a game like XCOM.

[Inkidu]

Well, you're entitled to your own personal tastes and opinions, for sure, as is anyone else.

I happen to like computer games that have graphics that make them look like computer games and not like failed attempts at reality.

Such games usually tend to run smoother and even look better and more immersive. Realistic graphics usually tend to have flaws and when some things look realistic and others don't, the flaws stand out big time and crush the overall effect.

Not to mention I don't even remotely see how you could do a shooter-like attempt at realistic graphics in a game like XCOM.

You, sir, understand the uncanny valley.

[Running Wild]

Personally I don't mind their choice for the art style. Its not too serious yet not too toony, not like UFO Afterlight.

[tagemandbagem]

Not to pile on, but I will....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOlmD...eature=related

cartoons anyone?

[Relicc]

I'm on the fence. The art style of the original felt serious to me, and even though the battlescape graphics looked bright compared to a gritty Fallout I never once got the feeling that I was playing with action figures. I don't dislike the new look and feel, but I didn't exactly say, "Now that's X-com!" when I saw it.

[CletusVanDamme]

The cutscenes in the original game were comic book panels so I'm nowhere near convinced by the people saying this game is deviating from the style.

You're welcome to your graphical preference, of course, but that's all it really is in this case.

[RotGtIE]

In the original opening cutscene of X-Com, guys with Guile-haircuts leaped out of their transports dozens of feet into the air wearing blue skin-tight suits so they could shoot down from the hip at a bunch of green skin-tight suit wearing purple ape aliens while showing the extra terrestrial menace their own entirely appropriate war faces.

This probably seemed dark and gritty compared to...I dunno, sonic the flippin' hedgehog or something at the time.

[TheFinn]

I'm on the fence. The art style of the original felt serious to me, and even though the battlescape graphics looked bright compared to a gritty Fallout I never once got the feeling that I was playing with action figures. I don't dislike the new look and feel, but I didn't exactly say, "Now that's X-com!" when I saw it.

That's funny you say that. I just bought the original on Steam last week because of these forums. I remembered it as very serious too. I had completely forgotten the anime intro and how cartoon-y the aliens looked on the research summary screens.

It still plays serious for me. I think what I remembered was just that sense of tension the game managed to evoke.

[japester]

In all honesty, I think it's a matter of timing. When X-COM originally came out, the level of nitpicking and griping that the anonymous internet breeds simply didn't exist. We were more forgiving with our entertainment--tweaking minor details in our minds so that they seemed more enjoyable.

Whereas today an intro would be pulled apart 18 ways to Sunday, with every frame analyzed, and scores of comments about the haircuts, uniforms, weapons, sound f/x, aliens, lighting, staging, etc., in those days we would watch and go, "Cool. That put me in the mood to fight aliens."

[TheFinn]

In all honesty, I think it's a matter of timing. When X-COM originally came out, the level of nitpicking and griping that the anonymous internet breeds simply didn't exist. We were more forgiving with our entertainment--tweaking minor details in our minds so that they seemed more enjoyable.

Whereas today an intro would be pulled apart 18 ways to Sunday, with every frame analyzed, and scores of comments about the haircuts, uniforms, weapons, sound f/x, aliens, lighting, staging, etc., in those days we would watch and go, "Cool. That put me in the mood to fight aliens."

There's a lot of truth to that.

I know there's been a few games I've played that were ok - not great - and I'd check online for a piece of information and end up seeing forum posts on other topics.. often pointing out flaws or balance issues that I never noticed UNTIL then - some would flash like neon signs afterwards and in a couple cases it was enough to change my opinion from ok to just bad. Sometimes the 'net isn't your friend and ignorance truly is bliss. lol

[podtech115]

X-COM apocalypse is irrelevant, so I don't even care what it does because what matters here is the original (the actually undisputed good game of the series) was doing.

Geez, you sound like those Star Wars fans who hates George Lucas:
http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/foru...star-wars.html

----------
And people, let me make this clear to you all:

When I say I want Photorealistic graphics, that does *NOT* mean I want a "gritty" gray and brown world, and/or a boring Photorealistic world, where it looks like I'm walking around with a camera and am just watching everything on the street, like some kind of youtube vid. Why is there always some baka telling me if they want realism, they would just walk outside?! Unless there are dragons, and monsters, and aliens, and time travelers, and espers, and ghosts, and giant robots, and giant space motherships I don't think I would like outside very much.

Did you ever went to see a $300,000,000 movie, and said "Oh gosh, gee! The CGI looked too realistic, it sucked!

Or how about Ridley Scott's Alien? Did you ever said "that alien sure was too realistic and scary, I sure wish it was more fake, and less scary! "

I want more of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...XBLyqNkw#t=89s

and less of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7B81YTaOYQ

Again, more of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW8GbBSXaUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Av8JD__sQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmIIN6i1Cec

and less of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33u7P-XokE

In other words, I really want to see what it would be like if X-COM and all the aliens were real. Is that so hard to understand?

[Alucardex]

Wait Final Fantasy 13 is photorealisitc? Hmm kay I would disagree on that.
But really: What would a "photorealistic" Muton look like in your opinion?
To me that sounds just impossible to pull of simply because those aliens ARE pretty cartoonish.
It would look like putting Mickey Mouse into Crysis.

PS: Am I the only one freaked out by that child in the Mass effect 3 trailer???
MY GOD it looks like freaking Chucky with those soulless eyes and that creepy smile....

[EarX]

Why is there always some baka telling me if they want realism, they would just walk outside?! Unless there are dragons, and monsters, and aliens, and time travelers, and espers, and ghosts, and giant robots, and giant space motherships I don't think I would like outside very much.

Well yeah, real-life doesn't have any of those running around so I guess you wouldn't :P

Did you ever went to see a $300,000,000 movie, and said "Oh gosh, gee! The CGI looked too realistic, it sucked!

Or how about Ridley Scott's Alien? Did you ever said "that alien sure was too realistic and scary, I sure wish it was more fake, and less scary! "

See that's the problem. Throw as much money around as you please, you still won't get a computer to render gfx that's completely realistic. And that's where the uncanny valley people are mentioning comes in. Look at a monster-budget film like Avatar. Even that doesn't pull off CG that's 100% natural and believable. The old Alien movies work because there are no CG tricks, just blokes dressed up in alien costumes. So in a way, they're "real" because they're actual, physical objects and the brain can always tell the difference.

But hey, everybody have different tastes. I prefer gfx that don't make (futile) attempts to masquerade themselves as reality. Means I can let my brain bridge that gap and focus on the actual content instead.

[nu_clear_day]

...
In other words, I really want to see what it would be like if X-COM and all the aliens were real. Is that so hard to understand?

I think that's fair. I disagree (I'm actually rather partial to Firaxis's art direction decisions with this,) but I think I grok what you're trying to get at. It's all a matter of opinion, anyway.

What it seems to me like you're trying to say is that you're looking for something a little less stylized than what we're seeing with this Enemy Unknown thing (big blocky guns, a focus on individual silhouettes - a tabletop miniatures sort of look,) and something a bit more representational.

When you start bringing up "photorealistic," that's where all this uncanny valley stuff comes into. What I think you're really trying to get at is "realistic for a videogame," here. (Or at least that makes sense when I say it in my own head...) More "Dead Space" than "Borderlands," in other words.

X-Com has always been a very tense and scary game - even despite the leisurely and thoughtful pace of a turn-based game. I think Firaxis is trying to balance an aesthetic that's clear to read everything at a distance (which is why they're going more stylized,) with that scary sort of vibe. You just seem to wish that they'd moved a bit more in the representational direction, and less into the design by gameplay concepts.

And again, I think that's fair. I just don't have as much of a problem with it (and I've always been a fan of Firaxis's very crisp visuals.)

[Nikolaidas]

Hello,

I just like to write that I don't really like the graphics for x-com remake. It's ok-ish for a first 3D version, but I would rather see realistic graphics and realistic stuff, instead of cartoony nonsense.

For me x-com was always about: "What if this really happened ?".

With the cartoony look I don't feel that.

Bye,
Skybuck.

The graphic style of the original X-COM was totally anime-inspired. Did you ☺☺☺☺☺ about it back then? If anything, the remake looks far more realistic than the original ever did.

[Inkidu]

Honestly Faraxis's style reminds me of a very very very westernized and subdued Final Fantasy XIII (a game of which the only good thing I said was it sure was purdy). Think about it. Smooth faces, stylized clothes, pronounced weaponry. XCOM doesn't have the budget they had so it lacks a lot of the pounds of virtual makeup the art guys could throw at it. However, I think XCOM looks more realistic than FF13 because of that.

[podtech115]

Wait Final Fantasy 13 is photorealisitc? Hmm kay I would disagree on that.

Well, no, Final Fantasy XIII isn't photorealistic, but I added it so people don't think I want some boring gray or brown world. I still like fantasy and imagination, but I just want it to be real. I'm sure if they had the tech, they would make it more realistic looking.

Oh, and thank you for not only looking at my links, but telling me what you think. Everyone else here just seem to ignore them.

But really: What would a "photorealistic" Muton look like in your opinion?
To me that sounds just impossible to pull of simply because those aliens ARE pretty cartoonish.
It would look like putting Mickey Mouse into Crysis.

Well, here is my attempt of a photorealistic Muton:
http://oi49.tinypic.com/smble8.jpg

Not much, but still.... anyways, just look at the Hulk from the new avengers movie to see how a cartoon can become real.

See that's the problem. Throw as much money around as you please, you still won't get a computer to render gfx that's completely realistic. And that's where the uncanny valley people are mentioning comes in. Look at a monster-budget film like Avatar. Even that doesn't pull off CG that's 100% natural and believable.

1. Are you saying we shouldn't even try? Even if we never get completely photorealistic graphics?

2. Ha! Just shows what you know. Lo and behold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWE18YjLA8U
No $300,000,000 budget. No giant render farm. All 100% photorealistic! Much, MUCH better then Avatar!

The old Alien movies work because there are no CG tricks, just blokes dressed up in alien costumes. So in a way, they're "real" because they're actual, physical objects and the brain can always tell the difference.

Yeah, but you still want them to put some damn work into the costumes, or else you get this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...C5h0jmq0#t=28s
-------------------

And this is bugging the hell out of me: People, Stop saying it looks like anime! I love anime and I don't think it looks a bloody thing like anime! Didn't you ever look at a comic book before? Really now? Geez.

Where the hell do you think X-Men came from?

[Alucardex]

Well, no, Final Fantasy XIII isn't photorealistic, but I added it so people don't think I want some boring gray or brown world. I still like fantasy and imagination, but I just want it to be real. I'm sure if they had the tech, they would make it more realistic looking.

Oh, and thank you for not only looking at my links, but telling me what you think. Everyone else here just seem to ignore them.

Thanks. You put up some great links there making your point, so it's sad if people don't take the time to watch them.

1. Are you saying we shouldn't even try? Even if we never get completely photorealistic graphics?

2. Ha! Just shows what you know. Lo and behold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWE18YjLA8U
No $300,000,000 budget. No giant render farm. All 100% photorealistic! Much, MUCH better then Avatar!

While pretty impressive you should understand some details:

1. It took the 2 guys 2 and a half month to create this short clip.
I didn't find anything about the budget, but I would guess creating something like that takes a 6 figure paycheck.

Now just think about how much a whole movie with that sort of cg would cost. there is no way in hell you could ever get that much money back through sales.

2. This is a pre rendered clip. You can't pre render a whole game and no normal customer has the sort of hardware to allow this level of realism (yet).

And this is the whole prolem with realistic graphics right now, really.
Our technology just isn't quite there, yet. Sure you CAN create photorealistic graphic, but it takes ALOT of manpower and some high- end hardware to pull of.

And if you go for some realistic approach you can't really cut expenses else you might end up in the Uncanney Valley.

I think this guys sums up the issue perfectly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTAJBQSm10

Somewhere in the future we might have the technology to create photorealisitc graphics on consumer level hardware, however until that day comes developers have to improvise. And going for more stylistic graphics IS a much more cost effective way.

[EarX]

1. Are you saying we shouldn't even try? Even if we never get completely photorealistic graphics?

Yep.

2. Ha! Just shows what you know. Lo and behold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWE18YjLA8U
No $300,000,000 budget. No giant render farm. All 100% photorealistic! Much, MUCH better then Avatar!

Yeah it's very well made, but is my mind fooled? To some degree maybe, but there are still tell-tale signs; everything looks really slick and eye-pleasing. To a point where it looks maybe not computer-rendered, but definitely post-processed. The paprika splatting on the kitchen counter looks pretty unrealistic. Also, it's mostly simple shapes, reflective surfaces, fruits and veggies. Would they be able to put a complex organism like say, a cg human being in there and still be as convincing?

Beyond that, Alucardex is right on the mark.

Yeah, but you still want them to put some damn work into the costumes, or else you get this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...C5h0jmq0#t=28s

Okay, but you're missing the point. The aliens in the Alien movies are not computer rendered. They run around in front of a real-world camera, with real-world lights illuminating them. I've never seen CG creatures that had me fooled, even in maximum-budget blockbusters.

[fuddan01]

Dude, No game in history looks realistic, not even Battlefield 3

[Nikolaidas]

Dude, No game in history looks realistic, not even Battlefield 3

You're being unfair. Games like Heavy Rain use a very realistic graphic style, as well as Mass Effect. Now, we're not talking about being identical to real life in DETAIL, but in design. Graphic cards have still a long way to go, but we do have games which imitate real life in faces and bodies.

That said, X-COM is somewhere in between. I consider it more realistic than the original, but less realistic than Mass Effect. Then again, it's a strategy game, not a fighting / RPG title.

[Inkidu]

You're being unfair. Games like Heavy Rain use a very realistic graphic style, as well as Mass Effect. Now, we're not talking about being identical to real life in DETAIL, but in design. Graphic cards have still a long way to go, but we do have games which imitate real life in faces and bodies.

That said, X-COM is somewhere in between. I consider it more realistic than the original, but less realistic than Mass Effect. Then again, it's a strategy game, not a fighting / RPG title.

Graphic for games might never be that realistic. The output to cost ratios would be astronomically out of line, barring some techno-miracle.

[Nosmirc]

I've already talked a great deal about this subject, so I'll just say just this: The more detailed you make the graphics, the less resources and flexibility you have for interesting features for the game. And when you're playing at a distanced perspective like we will be in this game, you don't need ultra realistic graphics.

[Inkidu]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...his-Generation

More of the actual discussion worthy content is in the back end of the video, but he raises a few good points.

Namely, realistic games don't last, there is a constantly-moving bar.

[Alucardex]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...his-Generation

More of the actual discussion worthy content is in the back end of the video, but he raises a few good points.

Namely, realistic games don't last, there is a constantly-moving bar.

Wow I don't know that guys, but he seems pretty full of himself XD

Anyway that is pretty much the same point I was trying to make.
Realism is so hard to achieve and our technology is evolving at such an unbelievable rate that games that look gorgeous today will look like ☺☺☺☺ in 5 years!

One example:

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was first reeleased in 2006 and lokked mighty impressive for its time.
However, compared to Skyrim it's no longer impressive at all. In fact it is already starting to look aged and in 2 or 3 years it will look pretty ugly compared to next gen games.

Compare that to Okami. A game released in the same year taht relies on a heavily cell-shaded look inspired by old japanese art.
I would argue that this game still looks gorgeous even today. Like the old art it's based upon it has a timeless beauty that will look just as good in another 6 years from now.

Of course it all comes down to personal preference and the genre of your game, but I would take a game with a unique art-style over another grey and brown shooter every day.

[SectoidSquisher]

Graphic for games might never be that realistic. The output to cost ratios would be astronomically out of line, barring some techno-miracle.

Some games should never look fully photo realistic. Take GTA for example - I think for games like that, where people do those sort of things in a world which looks exactly the same as the one outside your window, photorealism is a very dangerous place to go.

[Inkidu]

Wow I don't know that guys, but he seems pretty full of himself XD

Anyway that is pretty much the same point I was trying to make.
Realism is so hard to achieve and our technology is evolving at such an unbelievable rate that games that look gorgeous today will look like ☺☺☺☺ in 5 years!

One example:

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was first reeleased in 2006 and lokked mighty impressive for its time.
However, compared to Skyrim it's no longer impressive at all. In fact it is already starting to look aged and in 2 or 3 years it will look pretty ugly compared to next gen games.

Compare that to Okami. A game released in the same year taht relies on a heavily cell-shaded look inspired by old japanese art.
I would argue that this game still looks gorgeous even today. Like the old art it's based upon it has a timeless beauty that will look just as good in another 6 years from now.

Of course it all comes down to personal preference and the genre of your game, but I would take a game with a unique art-style over another grey and brown shooter every day.

Meh, that's his schtick. He acts like that to get all the people to outrage listen.

[Nosmirc]

Wow I don't know that guys, but he seems pretty full of himself XD

For a lack of a better term, he's a professional troll. Come on, who gives Deadly Premontion full marks? His review was literally "it's so bad it's good".

[Inkidu]

For a lack of a better term, he's a professional troll. Come on, who gives Deadly Premontion full marks? His review was literally "it's so bad it's good".

Well people forget that reviews are opinions. If he's got a weird opinion that's how it goes. That's why scores are kind of pointless.

That doesn't mean he doesn't raise valid points.

[Skybuck]

The orginal x-com seemed to have a "manga/japanese" cartoonish style too it. But a bad-ass/though-style with mixes of realism in it in a hand drawn like way.

I think the current remake tries to re-capture some of that, but here and there it looks a bit too sweet, too childish, it's not just 3D model design, or texture or color, but also animations... Don't get me wrong some parts look good some parts could be better.

I hope that the aliens are made more mean, and more terror and more nasty and more dark and just bad and evil.

I think currently it feels a little bit too much like: "my cousy nextdoor alien neighbour" and maybe it's like they are playing a paintball match or something.

This should be about life and death, about the faith of humanity going down in flames and dispare... I am still not quite feeling that in what I saw so far...

The aliens should be ozzing with fear in every possible way , graphics and animations and 3d model design

The sectoids are ok, but I kinda dislike the mutons, they look too much like buzzlight year toys (toystory, I don't want to fight against "toys" from toy story, I want to fight mean bad-ass aliens ! Bad mean faces, glowing red eyes/whatever makes them look mean, dark and nasty ! ). Were did their breasty musscles go and biceps ? <- Strong/buffed aliens are scary...

I saw some concept art for this remake, I thought the concept art looked much more scary then the final 3D Model...

Perhaps developers are a bit scared of making the game too scary ?

Anyway I hope fire gets worked on a bit more, it seems a bit too fakey... (too much red and not enough yellow/white ?) could be a little bit more glow and more transparency or something...

Also perhaps the soldiers are "too handsome" and too "common".

The original soldiers seemed more freaky to me... So some more freak heads, block heads, japanese wacko's, bad-asses, all kinds of whacko's should be fighting against aliens ! LOL. Only whacko's gonna fight aliens lol. Handsome boys gonna run to their mommies lol... ok slightly kidding but still... I wanna see more different kind of characters... weak guys, strong guys, tiny guys, big guys, all kinds of guys... just average day joes fighting aliens...

X-com base seems too professional/hi-tech maybe... What goverment is going to invest so heavily in something like that ?!?

Anybody saying: "I am going to fight aliens for real, in the real world would quickly be dismissed as a "whacko" "

So this game needs to be a bit more realistic in that sense... whacko's, with whacky/low-tech bases... and maybe later it can become more professional/hi-tech as the world starts to realize that it's real and they are in real danger...

[Freddo]

I actually rather like the aesthetic they're going with, with this game. For one, I've always found Firaxis to be really good at putting out a very crisp visual style that reads well from a distance without sacrificing visual style for readability.

I agree

[NebulaM78]

If I wanted realistic, I would have opted for an X-COM movie instead.

[Skybuck]

After seeing all the boring first person shooter trailers from E3 I am kinda glad that X-COM looks different/cartoony ! =D

I think this game looks most interesting, though I still wish it was slightly less childish and even more real/terrifieng !

Way to go developers !