Looking to buy a new desktop

[oblio]

There is lots of good advice here. Budget is always an issue. However, one piece of advice not seemed to be mentioned anywhere in this thread is you get what you pay for. While a cut back system may play current games, how long do you want this system to be functional? You can build a system that is ok to good for your needs today but what is your time horizon for when you next want to do this again - one year? three years? five years? Lots of people who build systems will say build a system that will last at least three - five years.

Will you better off waiting until you have the money to build a better and fully upgradeable system that will be good 3 to 5 years from now (and likely as up to date then as a cut back system would be now)? Go with a better PCIe-3.0 mobo, an I7, a GTX 660 (due this summer), a larger PSU etc. So instead of spending $800 or so now on a lesser system, wait until you have $1200 - $1400 and do it up right. You will be happier in the long run. There are too many people on these forums with brand new but cheaper systems based on 5 year old tech that can barely run today's games much less tomorrows.

[Shark2346]

There is lots of good advice here. Budget is always an issue. However, one piece of advice not seemed to be mentioned anywhere in this thread is you get what you pay for. While a cut back system may play current games, how long do you want this system to be functional? You can build a system that is ok to good for your needs today but what is your time horizon for when you next want to do this again - one year? three years? five years? Lots of people who build systems will say build a system that will last at least three - five years.

Will you better off waiting until you have the money to build a better and fully upgradeable system that will be good 3 to 5 years from now (and likely as up to date then as a cut back system would be now)? Go with a better PCIe-3.0 mobo, an I7, a GTX 660 (due this summer), a larger PSU etc. So instead of spending $800 or so now on a lesser system, wait until you have $1200 - $1400 and do it up right. You will be happier in the long run. There are too many people on these forums with brand new but cheaper systems based on 5 year old tech that can barely run today's games much less tomorrows.

Well as I stated I am only looking to play my current games. My laptop has been allowing my to just squeak by on all low settings and low amounts of Civs and CS. I am looking for a system that will let me play the games I already have. I am mostly a console gamer but Civilization 5 is by far my most played game and I do love my Blizzard games. As I had said before somewhere in the thread, I don't mind getting a computer that is good for a year or two. But ultimately I want that machine to be able to be easily upgraded to the newer technologies when I am ready. This is why I am not just jumping in to buying some cheap $600 pre-built off Tigerdirect or Newegg or Cyberpower and trying to create my own PC with upgradeability.

[slowtarget]

You can build a system that is ok to good for your needs today but what is your time horizon for when you next want to do this again - one year? three years? five years? Lots of people who build systems will say build a system that will last at least three - five years.

And most people who build systems professional or as a hobby will tell you that it's impractical to even try to build a system that will play AAA games for more than four years. Three years is a good target. Due to the depressive effects of the current generation of consoles, we've seen some slack in game requirements that has allowed some people to continue with 4 year old cards (namely: The very last of the 8800 series). Beyond that is silly. Even a cutting edge Tri-SLI system today is going to be out-of-date in four years. It might have the raw power to get stuff done, but it will be missing software/API support needed.

So lets not even try to aim that far.

The OP wants a budget gaming build and that is very possible. It won't be top of the line, ever, but it will play the games he wants for the next couple years and give him the chance to do a $125-200 upgrade in a couple years that will extend its life another year or two. That's a valid goal.

Will you better off waiting until you have the money to build a better and fully upgradeable system that will be good 3 to 5 years from now (and likely as up to date then as a cut back system would be now)? Go with a better PCIe-3.0 mobo, an I7, a GTX 660 (due this summer), a larger PSU etc. So instead of spending $800 or so now on a lesser system, wait until you have $1200 - $1400 and do it up right. You will be happier in the long run.

...and it will be out-of-date in 3-4 years anyway. The $1400 price point is the upper end of practical builds. I know. That's the price point I build at. After three years, a video card update is needed. I usually opt to replace the video card with a low end card, set it up as my new Linux server, and build a new gaming box.

Waiting a year and adding $600 to the budget will cost the OP 6$600 and a year of gaming, and will buy him only another year on the end of that. In the end, the best quality-of-life solution is to build what you can, when you need it. Waiting longer than 3 months for prices to drop or better quality parts to arrive ends up being a losing proposition.

[Shark2346]

Waiting a year and adding $600 to the budget will cost the OP 6$600 and a year of gaming, and will buy him only another year on the end of that. In the end, the best quality-of-life solution is to build what you can, when you need it. Waiting longer than 3 months for prices to drop or better quality parts to arrive ends up being a losing proposition.

And even if I wait 3 months for prices to drop I am in the same 'pickle' I am in now. Working with a last generation processor and computer hardware that is going to be gone soon again. Computers are a revolving door of products. By the time I wait for the high end stuff to drop in price, it is no longer high end anymore.

Although I want a desktop to have along with my laptop... I am in no way looking to spend $1200 just to play Civ5. $700 I can handle because the computer is not only for the game has some at home utility and upgradeability that my laptop does not.

Also SlowTarget I posted on page 1 of this thread the build I was looking at and it is still going to cost over $1000. Not sure how to cut it down.

[oblio]

When I've built my systems I have always tried to be future upgradeable but that doesn't quite work out.

GPU's are perhaps the easiest to upgrade on an existing system but now for example the move for a better GPU with peak performance is to PCI-e 3.0 from PCI-e 2.0 which my current mobo can't do (no games need it yet either but coming). And in upgrading the problem is also that this usually means wanting to update to the next gen CPU as well which inevitably requires a new mobo. So new CPU, GPU, mobo and RAM, where's the upgrade as its virtually a new system. And likely you still have to buy a new OS with this big a change (Win 8 is coming).

I've been able to keep re-using optical disk and hard drives but found out the hard way that a hard drive may only have a 5 year life span. The PSU should be re-usable as should be the case but maybe that's it. So save $150 - $200 but still on the hook for a grand plus.

I sympathize with the cost dilemma. Just suggesting to have eyes wide open when trying to spend only $800 when IMHO you really need a lot more to make it worthwhile. Its not about waiting 3 months for prices to come down on current stuff, its being able to buy the at that time current tech at the time you can afford to buy it that you need to justify the expenditure.

[slowtarget]

Also SlowTarget I posted on page 1 of this thread the build I was looking at and it is still going to cost over $1000. Not sure how to cut it down.

Did you see my response?

I added it all up, and with a 550 Ti, 6770 (or as suggested, a 6790), the price only came to about $720. Did I miss something?

EDIT:

Okay, here's the tally as I see it:

Case: $55
CPU: $210
Motherboard: $100
Video: $115 (Assuming the 550 Ti)
RAM: $45
Storage: $75
PSU: $70
OS: $100

Total: $770

I missed $50 somewhere. Still, that's not impossibly high. Your CPU is actually a bit more than you really need if you're just looking for those two games. You could easily drop your CPU to a $125 i3-2120 and still get decent performance from both of those games. Pretty much any of the second generation Core chips (Sandy Bridge) are going to be fine for mild gaming. It's far above the requirements for Civ V.

[slowtarget]

When I've built my systems I have always tried to be future upgradeable but that doesn't quite work out.

Yup. Among builders, the request to build a "future proof" system is a Big Red Flag indicating that the requestor is going to be wasting a lot of money and not getting much in return.

The future upgrade prospects for computer builds should always be considered limited in scope. You can do mild quality upgrades: A better video card, a new hard drive, extra memory. However, you shouldn't ever build with the expectation that you're going to be able to simply replace a CPU or move to new RAM or use the new video card technology that just came out.

That's why even $4000 builds (and yes, I've seen them) are outdated in 3 years. Three years from now, we'll at least be using PCIe 3.0 and a new RAM spec. Even if that $4K system has Tri-SLI, it's going to be using DirectX13 (or whatever) in software mode (or not at all) and be demolished by newer, cheaper hardware. Three years ago, 10krpm hard drives were unbeatable. Now they are semi-unreliable and totally trashed by SSDs. You'll never get ahead. You shouldn't even try.

Build what you can, when you need it.

[SirMaru]

Did you see my response?

I added it all up, and with a 550 Ti, 6770 (or as suggested, a 6790), the price only came to about $720. Did I miss something?

EDIT:

Okay, here's the tally as I see it:

Case: $55
CPU: $210
Motherboard: $100
Video: $115 (Assuming the 550 Ti)
RAM: $45
Storage: $75
PSU: $70
OS: $100

Total: $770

I missed $50 somewhere. Still, that's not impossibly high. Your CPU is actually a bit more than you really need if you're just looking for those two games. You could easily drop your CPU to a $125 i3-2120 and still get decent performance from both of those games. Pretty much any of the second generation Core chips (Sandy Bridge) are going to be fine for mild gaming. It's far above the requirements for Civ V.

Slowtarget,

After all the discussions you have come up with a $ 770 price PLUS one's own labor and no guarantees of performance.

I still think the Dell for $ 750 with better storage and other great features and NO personal labor with a learning curve really beats that unless one wants to take up a new hobby to keep building CPU's. Again here is the link where the OP can compare what he is getting both ways:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...el_id=xps-8500

If building it oneself with a 50% savings and budgeting for it is a problem, then definitely one with good mechanical skills should go for a personal build.

If something goes wrong with a personal build (you mentioned earlier waiting one month for a local shop to make a repair for you), you are on your own. Dell warrents their unit for one year without any additional charges and repairs usually take less than 48 hours.

[slowtarget]

After all the discussions you have come up with a $ 770 price PLUS one's own labor and no guarantees of performance.

First: I've come up with builds for $770, $750, and $690 (give or take).
Second: No computer comes with any guarantees of performance.

I still think the Dell for $ 750 with better storage and other great features and NO personal labor with a learning curve really beats that unless one wants to take up a new hobby to keep building CPU's.

And again, I'll point out that the linked Dell has a processor that's only equivalent to the i5-2400 (the $750 price tag), a noticeably worse video card, and virtually zero chance of upgrades. It also has a lower quality motherboard and power supply. I'd also go so far as to say that it's got a less reliable hard drive and I don't think the integrated sound is very good. In fact, beyond the fact that the Dell is using an Ivy Bridge chip, I can't see it having any component which is more reliable or of higher quality than the build.

As a gaming machine, it might meet the OPs needs, but he'll be paying extra money for a Dell sticker and no extra performance, with a promise that Dell will try to fix things if some problem shows up.

Again: I'm not bashing Dell. This is how Dell makes money. It uses cheaper parts so it can make a profit off of assembly. This is why builds (when done well) have far better reliability than OEM systems. You can take all the money that would be spent padding an OEM's profit margin and spend it on hardware instead.

If something goes wrong with a personal build (you mentioned earlier waiting one month for a local shop to make a repair for you), you are on your own.

Irony.

The whole reason why the repair took so long was because the system being repaired was a notebook, not a build. Had it been a desktop system, I could have repaired it myself... unless it was a Dell, since Dell (and HP, to be fair) often use proprietary components which can only be repaired by Dell. With a built system, components are readily interchangeable and you can often simply replace the malfunctioning component.

My brother had a video card die in his notebook (HP) last year. Estimated time to repair via warranty service: 6 days. Actual time to repair via local shop: 3 days. A couple months ago I had a video card die. Actual time to repair: 2 hours (45 minutes spent in traffic).

Dell warrents their unit for one year without any additional charges and repairs usually take less than 48 hours.

In reality, unless you pay for extended service, that's not what you actually see. Having experienced this several times, only one time in six were repairs done within 48 hours. In almost all cases, a service representative was sent to diagnose within 48 hours. The actual repairs took a few days beyond that.

[stethnorun]

SirMaru, Slowtarget is right on every count. Dell just sucks, as do most big name PC builders. It's pretty much an understood fact that if you have the inclination to build your own, you should always do so, no exceptions. I used to be on the Dell train, too, back in the day. But unless you are buying a large number of PCs for an office or you are an old lady that will never be gaming, Dell, Gateway, HP, Toshiba....none of these are a good idea.

You get better everything by building your own (quality, price, upgradability, customer service, etc.) The only thing buying a Dell gets you is time and convenience. Personally, I would never sacrifice quality, price, upgradability and customer support for a small amount of time and convenience.

[slowtarget]

SirMaru, Slowtarget is right on every count. Dell just sucks, as do most big name PC builders.

Dell doesn't "suck". That's a bit argumentative.

They are an OEM. They are a business, and you don't stay in business without a profit margin. They make their profit margin by buying in bulk, selling advertising via the installed crapware, and by using components that are lower in quality than you find on the enthusiast/builder market. There are lots of people who have no desire to even approach building their own PC. For those people, I actually recommend Dell or HP, as I trust the quality enough that I can recommend the brand without any more research. As much as I like ASUS, the availability makes them hard to recommend.

However, so long as you are willing to build, you will always end up with a higher quality system by building than you will by buying from an OEM (unless you really screw up your build).

The OP is willing to build. I'm trying to help him get the best PC for his budget. A Dell isn't the best PC for his budget. It's that easy.

The only thing buying a Dell gets you is time and convenience. Personally, I would never sacrifice quality, price, upgradability and customer support for a small amount of time and convenience.

Some people are. That doesn't make them stupid, it just means they have different values. From what I've read, the OP isn't one of those people.

[oblio]

Not to keep piling on Dell et al but for those who don't want to pay for a name plate but still want someone to build a system for them, look for a local independent retail store. They make money selling the system parts to you at near online prices and maybe charge $25 for assembly (at least in my neck of the woods). That way you get at least a 30 day warranty as well for the system you really want.

[stethnorun]

Dell doesn't "suck". That's a bit argumentative.

They are an OEM. They are a business, and you don't stay in business without a profit margin. They make their profit margin by buying in bulk, selling advertising via the installed crapware, and by using components that are lower in quality than you find on the enthusiast/builder market. There are lots of people who have no desire to even approach building their own PC. For those people, I actually recommend Dell or HP, as I trust the quality enough that I can recommend the brand without any more research. As much as I like ASUS, the availability makes them hard to recommend.

However, so long as you are willing to build, you will always end up with a higher quality system by building than you will by buying from an OEM (unless you really screw up your build).

The OP is willing to build. I'm trying to help him get the best PC for his budget. A Dell isn't the best PC for his budget. It's that easy.



Some people are. That doesn't make them stupid, it just means they have different values. From what I've read, the OP isn't one of those people.

Right, that's what I said - "Personally". And yeah, they do suck by almost all measurable attributes. If time and convenience are the most important factors to you, then sure, Dells are certainly a viable option, but they will still suck when compared to a personally-built PC. McDonalds may be fast and easy, but I don't know anyone that would argue they don't suck next to most other prepared food.

[SirMaru]

Did you see my response?

I added it all up, and with a 550 Ti, 6770 (or as suggested, a 6790), the price only came to about $720. Did I miss something?

EDIT:

Okay, here's the tally as I see it:

Case: $55
CPU: $210
Motherboard: $100
Video: $115 (Assuming the 550 Ti)
RAM: $45
Storage: $75
PSU: $70
OS: $100

Total: $770

I missed $50 somewhere. Still, that's not impossibly high. Your CPU is actually a bit more than you really need if you're just looking for those two games. You could easily drop your CPU to a $125 i3-2120 and still get decent performance from both of those games. Pretty much any of the second generation Core chips (Sandy Bridge) are going to be fine for mild gaming. It's far above the requirements for Civ V.

Those specs you posted here do not show any ethernet port, USB ports (Version 3 is being shipped these days) or DVD drives (read and write). Are they included in the chasis and just not shown?

Also, how much RAM is included in those Specs, Video RAM and hard disk space. What is the speed of the processor?

The unit I posted from Dell also includes for the $ 750: Microsoft Office Starter Kit, 15 months of McAfee antivirus protection, keyboard, mouse, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, 3rd generation Intel Core i5-3450, processor of 3.10 Ghz with Turbo Boost 2.0 bringing it to 3.50 Ghz, 8 Gb Dual Channel memory, 1 Tb 7200 RPM SATA Drive, AMD Radion with 1 Gb memory, 16 X CD/DVD burner, wireless 802.11, bluetooth, Integrated 7.1 Wave Max Audio 4, 10/100/1000 Ethernet, USB 3.0 port (I'm not sure how many).

By the way, my service contracts with Dell always specify next day service. Businesses usually take same day service. My experience with the next day service has ALWAYS been honored. I also pay extra for US English speakers, ONLY.

Finally, my next PC upgrade will be in Spring, 1913. I'm open to building one myself if you can convince me although I've never done that before. I upgrade every 3 years on a regular basis and will probably buy Civ 6 if its available then. I always buy one game to go with my new PC every 3 years.

[SamBC]

Motherboards all come with onboard sound and ethernet these days. Even if the costing doesn't include optical, that's a pretty tiny difference, being about $20 tops, AIUI. For rewriteable DVD, usually, just in case anyone wants that.

[slowtarget]

Those specs you posted here do not show any ethernet port, USB ports (Version 3 is being shipped these days) or DVD drives (read and write). Are they included in the chasis and just not shown?

Er... Yes.

I understand that you suggested this because you don't have much experience here, so bear with me. The reason these aren't mentioned is because they are assumed. And they're not supplied by the chassis, but by the motherboard. As I said before, most modern motherboards ship with chipsets that include some form of network adapter and some sort of sound chipset. They also come with 4-8 USB headers, the occasional eSATA port, connectors for serial and parallel ports (but no one uses them), and possibly some digital audio outputs. That's just standard.

The board the OP selected has 4 external USB 2.0 jacks, 2 external USB 3.0 jacks, and from what I can see, 4 more USB 2 and 2 more USB 3 headers for internal use. The on-board network chipset is a PCIe Gigabit adapter. It's a more efficient chipset than the one the Dell uses. Again, the reason these aren't mentioned is because they are boring. Pretty much every motherboard in that class has at least a similar setup. Many of them have much more.

There was no optical drive. I suppose we should add $20 to the price.

Also, how much RAM is included in those Specs,

2 x 4GB at DDR3-1333. The speed is slower than the quoted Dell, but the result is drop in memory performance of somewhere less than 1%. In practice, it is not measurable.

However, the Corsair/G.Skill RAM is a grade or two higher in manufacturing quality than the RAM being used in the Dell.

Video RAM

All of the cards involved have 1GB of Video RAM. Again, video RAM is usually ignored as its mostly dictated by the video card chipset. Even for a card like the 560 Ti, doubling its video RAM doesn't really increase performance. The chip can't really make much use of it.

That said, another example is the 7570 on the quoted Dell. While it has 1GB of video RAM, its performance is only equal to mid-level gaming cards from 3 years ago which used half the video RAM.

and hard disk space.

500GB. That's plenty for light gaming.

What is the speed of the processor?

The 2500 runs at 3.3GHz. The 2400 runs at 3.1GHz. The 2120 runs at 3.3GHz.

The 3450 from the Dell tops out at 3.5GHz.

However, if you think the differences in the speeds mean anything, then you're falling for marketing. Clock speed is no longer a suitable measurement of CPU ability. In practice, the 2500 slightly outperforms the 3450, which slightly outperforms the 2400, which outperforms the 2120 by a noticeable, but not huge amount.

The unit I posted from Dell also includes for the $ 750: Microsoft Office Starter Kit, 15 months of McAfee antivirus protection, keyboard, mouse, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, 3rd generation Intel Core i5-3450, processor of 3.10 Ghz with Turbo Boost 2.0 bringing it to 3.50 Ghz, 8 Gb Dual Channel memory, 1 Tb 7200 RPM SATA Drive, AMD Radion with 1 Gb memory, 16 X CD/DVD burner, wireless 802.11, bluetooth, Integrated 7.1 Wave Max Audio 4, 10/100/1000 Ethernet, USB 3.0 port (I'm not sure how many).

That's great. In practice, Office Starter Kit is crap. McAfee is as harmful as having a virus (use MS Defender instead). The wireless chip in it is known to have problems, and can't keep up with modern routers. The bluetooth adapter works, but the location puts it in a high-interference area for office use. The "Wave Max" audio is an inferior chipset to the Realtek, as is the gigabit ethernet adapter.

In short: none of that is impressive. It's all standard stuff. Except for Office Starter Kit. I'd pay them $5 to leave it off.

Finally, my next PC upgrade will be in Spring, 1913.

Well, I'd suggest one of the steam-powered CPUs. I hear they're the cat's meow.

I'm open to building one myself if you can convince me although I've never done that before.

That's not what I do. I'm just trying to help people who already are considering building. For you, there isn't much to be gained. You're not constrained by a budget, and you don't need high performance or any other specialty considerations (low noise, high storage, low power). For you, I really do think that a good quality OEM is a good choice. When it comes time for your next computer, I'd be happy to help you sort out what is worth buying.

Or building, if you want to do that, but I'm not going to try and change your mind. Above all, the first goal in buying a computer needs to be making sure that you're happy with what you get.

[Shark2346]

Yeah I also don't need the MS Office suite as I already have those at home or can use Google cloud products for free. My Dad works for CA Inc. (aka Computer Associates) so I get high quality computer anti-virus and iolo system mechanic for close to nothing due to that connection.

My added costs were in getting the GeForce 560 Ti. But if I can get the 550 Ti for less and still have the same quality than that is great. I am also still considering the AMD 4100. I realize that the i5-2500 is a more powerful processor but from what I have read the new AMD FX series handles the multi cores in a much more efficient and productive way and that is their benefit. Maybe I misinterpreted that.

But at $770 that is something I can handle for sure. And if i go with the FX Series that brings my price down too about $670 and I could probably then go for a better graphics card with that extra $100.

EDIT:;Also I don't think I fully understand what you mean by Windows 7 OEM. What does that mean exactly and where would I purchase it?

AND... Does it look like this Mobo comes with wireless network card? I am pretty sure it comes with a wired adapter but I don't know about wireless. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131836

[ddesart]

Yeah I also don't need the MS Office suite as I already have those at home or can use Google cloud products for free. My Dad works for CA Inc. (aka Computer Associates) so I get high quality computer anti-virus and iolo system mechanic for close to nothing due to that connection.

My added costs were in getting the GeForce 560 Ti. But if I can get the 550 Ti for less and still have the same quality than that is great. I am also still considering the AMD 4100. I realize that the i5-2500 is a more powerful processor but from what I have read the new AMD FX series handles the multi cores in a much more efficient and productive way and that is their benefit. Maybe I misinterpreted that.

But at $770 that is something I can handle for sure. And if i go with the FX Series that brings my price down too about $670 and I could probably then go for a better graphics card with that extra $100.

EDIT:;Also I don't think I fully understand what you mean by Windows 7 OEM. What does that mean exactly and where would I purchase it?

They sell Windows 7 Home OEM for $99, and Windows 7 Pro OEM for $139 at Newegg...

[Shark2346]

Also here is what I have so far for my build

Case $55
HDD $75
RAM $55
Video Card $129
MOBO $103 w/shipping
PSU $90 650w
Win 7 OEM $100
CPU i5 -2500 $210

Total cost is $816 and maybe $850 if the Mobo doesn't come with wireless adapter (which is a must have for the time being.)

[Shark2346]

Also here is what I have so far for my build

Case $35 with promo code
HDD $70 Seagate 500GB
RAM $55 Corsair 4x2GB
Video Card $129 ASUS GeForce 550 Ti
MOBO $103 w/shipping ASUS
PSU $60 650w
Win 7 OEM $100
CPU i5 -2500 quad core $195 w/ promo code

Total cost is $816 and maybe $850 if the Mobo doesn't come with wireless adapter (which is a must have for the time being.)

EDIT: So I joined up with newegg.com and immediately got e-mailed their E-blast savings flyer... FYI Newegg has a promo code deal that brings the i5 2500 from $209 to $194. Pretty good deal I thought.

I have brought my built to $788.92 w/ shipping. I have edited my prices from above to match what I have found in RL. I also have $20 in mail in rebate cards which brings my build down to $768.92 w/ shipping.

[SamBC]

OEM Windows basically means a license that can only be bought with a new machine, and is tied to that machine, but these days it seems to be okay to get an OEM license when buying the bits to build your own PC. Not sure if MS formally allow this, but it's quite widespread now.

A retail license allows you to move it between machines, and can be installed on an existing (rather than just new) machine.

[slowtarget]

OEM Windows basically means a license that can only be bought with a new machine, and is tied to that machine, but these days it seems to be okay to get an OEM license when buying the bits to build your own PC. Not sure if MS formally allow this, but it's quite widespread now.

Sam's got it right.

The only other part to the license is that it states that the computer must be built for sale. It doesn't specify who it needs to be sold to, however, so most system builders still buy the OEM license for their own systems and effectively sell the computer to themselves.

Beyond that, the only other things you'll want to know is that you're more limited in what changes you can make to the computer while still using the same license. Hard drives or video cards can be replaced without a problem, but if you change/upgrade your CPU or motherboard, you might have to call in to MS to get the license to activate. Do it too many times and they might force you to buy a new license.

In practice, builders usually just buy a new OEM license for each build. It's usually cheaper (even in the long run) than buying the full version and transferring it between builds.

[oblio]

My added costs were in getting the GeForce 560 Ti. But if I can get the 550 Ti for less and still have the same quality than that is great.

There is a big difference between a 550 ti and a 560 ti which is why the 550 ti is cheaper. You may want to look at some gpu benchmarks to see how much different. There are 2 560 ti types and also a 560 you can look at. A 1 gb 460 could also work for you.

[Shark2346]

There is a big difference between a 550 ti and a 560 ti which is why the 550 ti is cheaper. You may want to look at some gpu benchmarks to see how much different. There are 2 560 ti types and also a 560 you can look at. A 1 gb 460 could also work for you.

http://www.graphicscardbenchmarks.co...tPerf#gpuChart


This is what I use to check things out. 550 Ti is only a few levels worse on benchmarks than the 560 but a bunch of money less expensive. The 460 benchmarks lower (not by much) but is also ~$40 more than the 550 Ti. I think the 550 Ti gives me the most bang for my buck (in terms of Nvidia) and allows me not to feel like I invested too much to upgrade a year from now.


Anyways now that I have the build I want.... How do I make sure everything is completely compatible with each other item? What should I be looking for and looking up to make sure that I can put all the parts together without a hitch? Any experiences that can help me out while building?

[SamBC]

Mostly it's just a case of everything being compatible with the motherboard, and if everything is new the only bit that's likely to mismatch at all is the CPU - memory standards are pretty stable, and graphics are for all but the highest-end, bleeding-edge, AIUI. However, to be sure, just make sure the the mobo has the sockets specified for each.

It's also worth checking your monitor can connect to the video card. If you have an older monitor, it may use a VGA-style connector, while newer graphics cards often have DVI and HDMI connectors.

[Shark2346]

Mostly it's just a case of everything being compatible with the motherboard, and if everything is new the only bit that's likely to mismatch at all is the CPU - memory standards are pretty stable, and graphics are for all but the highest-end, bleeding-edge, AIUI. However, to be sure, just make sure the the mobo has the sockets specified for each.

It's also worth checking your monitor can connect to the video card. If you have an older monitor, it may use a VGA-style connector, while newer graphics cards often have DVI and HDMI connectors.

Well I was just going to use my TV, for now, as my monitor. So it has all of the HDMI and VGA hook ups. I currently use VGA for my laptop and it works very well.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[slowtarget]

Actually, I just noticed that I wasn't looking at the same motherboard that you were.

You were looking at this, the ASUS P8B75-V mATX.

I was looking at this, the ASUS P8B75-V ATX.

The case you selected is an ATX case. In theory, an mATX board should still work fine in it. Also in theory, you shouldn't have any issues getting a video card and wireless card into it. However, mATX boards are smaller, and thus a little more cramped, with a few less options. The full ATX version can be obtained from Amazon for $107. It's really your choice. Performance-wise, they should be exactly the same.

Other than that, I don't see any compatibility problems.

As for the video card, yes, the 550 Ti is a step down from the 560 Ti, but it is more than enough to handle Civ V and Diablo III, so I'd think the cost reduction is worth while. And the 550 Ti does have an HDMI output, but note that it is mini-HDMI. I think my 560 Ti came with a mini/HDMI-to-normal/HDMI adapter, but I can't get confirmation on the 550 Ti.

It would also come with a DVI-to-DSUB (DSUB = VGA) converter, but I'd really recommend the HDMI output instead. The quality will be much better.

[slowtarget]

Anyways now that I have the build I want.... How do I make sure everything is completely compatible with each other item? What should I be looking for and looking up to make sure that I can put all the parts together without a hitch? Any experiences that can help me out while building?

For education's sake:

1. Check the socket for your CPU and make sure that it matches the socket supplied by the motherboard. In this case, your CPU uses "Socket 1155". A quick check of your motherboard shows the same socket.
2. Check that the memory standard used by your RAM is supported by your motherboard. For now, this is pretty easy. Pretty much all DDR3-based motherboards support any available DDR3 memory. Since you're just running stock/normal/in-spec speeds, all you have to check is that you've got a motherboard that supports DDR3. You do.
3. Check that your motherboard is capable of supporting your video card. PCIe is, by definition, backwards compatible (on the motherboard side), so a PCIe 2.0 video card works fine on a PCIe 3.0 motherboard.
4. Check that your PSU supplies all of the required power. You aren't doing anything weird, so there's nothing really worth checking, but to be thorough, you'd need 1 24-pin motherboard power connector, another 8-pin ATX-CPU power connector, one or two 6/8pin video card power connectors, and at least one SATA power connector for each drive (HDD, SSD or optical) in the system.
5. Check that your PSU has cables long enough to reach all components. You've got a standard ATX Mid, so cable length is hardly ever a problem.

Those are the standard checks. Some more exotic builds/styles require some extra checks (example: I have to check the power-cable lengths and fan connector locations for the fans I add).

[slowtarget]

Ack. Sorry for more spamming:

Just to bring it up one last time: I would recommend going with 2 sticks of 4GB RAM modules rather than 4 sticks of 2GB modules. RAM failures do occur and using two sticks instead of four reduces the chance you get a bad stick.

Again: This has no impact on performance, and virtually no impact on price. It's just a recommendation.

[Shark2346]

^ Yeah the case I picked had motherboard compatibility with mini-, micro- and standard- ATX boards.

And the 550 Ti is mini-hdmi? Are you sure? It only mentions HDMI on the specs.

What are the pro-cons of the 4x2GB and 2x4GB set up?

EDIT: The change in memory does bring down my Price below that $800 price point I was looking at (with shipping) and that isn't including the -$20 in mail in rebate cards. Beautiful.

[mattcrwi]

And the 550 Ti is mini-hdmi? Are you sure? It only mentions HDMI on the specs.

What are the pro-cons of the 4x2GB and 2x4GB set up?

1) Video card almost always come with adapters for dvi to hdmi or display port to hdmi or hdmi mini to hdmi depending on what ports the card has natively. If you don't have the right ports, cables and adapters are 5 to 10 dollars on newegg.

EDIT: Also, video cards almost always have multiple ports of varying types for multiple monitors. (unless its integrated or mobile) I'm not sure about nVidia but AMD cards since 5000 series have had 3 ports for 3 simultaneous monitors. Usually with displayport, hdmi and DVI.

2) see slowTarget's post right above yours.

[slowtarget]

What are the pro-cons of the 4x2GB and 2x4GB set up?

Er...

Well, statistically speaking, if 1 in every 100 RAM sticks has a manufacturing flaw which escaped normal quality controls, the chance of getting one of those sticks is (about) 2% if you get a set of two, and (about) 4% if you get a set of four. Realistically, it's probably more like 2% vs. 3.5%, but you get the point. Also, the incidence of bad sticks is probably much less than 1 per 100.

Also, electronically, it's easier to supply a steady current/voltage to just two modules than it is for four. Of course, the board was designed to support four, and you're not doing anything crazy.

Each stick of RAM does generate some heat... but its just RAM and you can barely measure the amount they generate at standard specs.

At the moment, the price-per-byte is slightly lower for 4GB sticks than it is for 2GB sticks. Of course, its just slightly less, and RAM is way cheaper than it used to be in the past, so it matters even less.

So... there aren't really any real con's to running four sticks. But the only significant pro to running 2 sticks is that you have extra room for expansion later, if you need it... which you probably won't.

Again: I'd recommend it, but I wouldn't argue any stronger for it. If you can save $10 by doing it... yay. I guess it uses less plastic, and the Earth might thank you for that.

[jlyons264]

you could always save the 100 bucks for windows 7 and use the windows 8 beta release. That would give you time to get a copy of 7.

[Shark2346]

you could always save the 100 bucks for windows 7 and use the windows 8 beta release. That would give you time to get a copy of 7.

I don't know if you can just clean install Windows 8 Consumer Preview.

And thanks for clarifying SlowTarget. I think I am pretty close to having the build I want. ~$776 after the mail in rebates.

[sirwill72]

Just thought I'd drop in one piece of advice for anyone who's going to be putting together a computer or changing cards: pick up a wrist ground strap. Wear it and make sure the other end is fastened firmly to bare metal on the case when you are inserting cards or memory, and try very hard not to touch any of the components or pins on the circuit boards. The strap is to render you at the same potential as the case into which you are inserting the cards, so you don't fry them with a static discharge that you might not even feel.

[Shark2346]

Just playing around with builds....

But back to the AMD FX 4100 again (sorry...)

But for $695 I can get...

AMD FX 4100 3.6ghz processor
GeForce 560 1GB
8GB RAM
ASUS Mobo
and all the rest

So by dropping down from the i5 I can get my build for ~$100 cheaper and with a better gfx card. Worth it?

[slowtarget]

Just playing around with builds....

But back to the AMD FX 4100 again (sorry...)

But for $695 I can get...

AMD FX 4100 3.6ghz processor
GeForce 560 1GB
8GB RAM
ASUS Mobo
and all the rest

So by dropping down from the i5 I can get my build for ~$100 cheaper and with a better gfx card. Worth it?

You can get the same price drop by dropping from the i5 to an i3 2120, and from what I'm seeing, in gaming situations the i3-2120 noticeably out-performs the FX-4100. Yeah, it's just a dual core instead of a quad, but there is more to CPU ability than just cores x clock speed. It also uses less power (and thus: produces less heat) and leaves the door open to an upgrade to an i5-25xx or i5-35xx in the future (one of those rare times when you can upgrade in place).

Example: Benchmarks on Real World Games (this is specifically charting overclocked CPUs, but the 4100 and 2120 are included at their stock speeds).

More importantly: Note that if you change to an FX-4100, you'll need to change your motherboard as well.

[Shark2346]

You can get the same price drop by dropping from the i5 to an i3 2120, and from what I'm seeing, in gaming situations the i3-2120 noticeably out-performs the FX-4100. Yeah, it's just a dual core instead of a quad, but there is more to CPU ability than just cores x clock speed. It also uses less power (and thus: produces less heat) and leaves the door open to an upgrade to an i5-25xx or i5-35xx in the future (one of those rare times when you can upgrade in place).

Example: Benchmarks on Real World Games (this is specifically charting overclocked CPUs, but the 4100 and 2120 are included at their stock speeds).

More importantly: Note that if you change to an FX-4100, you'll need to change your motherboard as well.

Yeah did that with the Mobo. Learned alot from you already haha.

[slowtarget]

Yeah did that with the Mobo. Learned alot from you already haha.

Ah, yes, you have come far. Soon, your fall to the dark side will be complete.

[Shark2346]

I am probably going to make my decision on which build to buy by tomorrow. Then by the end of next week I'll be able to actually play a game of Civ on a standard map with all the CS and actually see the waves in the water tiles. Even more excited for G&K to come out now.