Looking to buy a new desktop

[Shark2346]

So I have been playing Civ 5 on my Dell laptop for the last few years. I just graduated from college and have obviously come into some graduation money. Now that I have a large chunk of disposable money (prob shouldn't be but hey you only live once) I am looking to buy a fairly cheap desktop but one that I will be able to actually utilize everything that Civ has to offer, especially with G&K coming out in ~ a month.

Do you guys have any suggestions on specs or places to get nice computers with only having to spend around $600-$700? I really do not play anything but Civ and I'd like to get Diablo 3 eventually.

Thanks for your suggests and help!

[Magic_Hotdog]

If you are looking for just the box with clockworks inside, you should be able to build yourself a nice, complete rig for about $700-800 USD buying parts from Newegg. This is what I suggest, because it will run current and soon-to-be-released games with all shineys turned on and last you for the next 4 years or so without upgrades plus another 4 once you start swapping things out for when gaming gets really intense. Throw in another $200 if you want a decent monitor and speaker system on top.

If you are limited to $600, you can still do this but you will find yourself replacing parts a little earlier for newer games to get a better experience out of playing. If you feel you can be patient and live in the USA, wait until Cyber Monday (Monday after Thanksgiving) and Newegg will have really sweet "packages" of custom-built game rigs in your price range in limited stock.

If you are lazy and want your rig now, Dell will sell you a rip-off for around $400-500 that will start going obsolete before it leaves the shipping office. Its your call.

[Zyffer]

Just one of the many reasonably priced, mid level gaming PC's on newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229285

You can also build your own if your technically inclined.

[stethnorun]

You can also build your own if your technically inclined.

You don't have to be technically inclined to build your own. Just get people with a little knowledge to suggest parts, and when it gets shipped to you, simply follow the instructions. PC building has become so user-friendly that it's about the same difficulty as putting together IKEA furniture.

[slowtarget]

You don't have to be technically inclined to build your own. Just get people with a little knowledge to suggest parts, and when it gets shipped to you, simply follow the instructions. PC building has become so user-friendly that it's about the same difficulty as putting together IKEA furniture.

I wouldn't say its quite that easy. Sure, there's nothing that's outright difficult. The old days where we had to set jumpers and calculate power draws on rails is gone, but there are still some details that cause problems. Just check out the support forum of your favorite game and see reports of people who built computers and are having problems with heat (bad cooler install or bad case layout) or unexplained slow performance (my favorite: DDR RAM installed as single-channel). It's way easier than it used to be, but you should still do your research beforehand.

The result of this, however, is that the "expert" part is no longer the physical assembly, but in the part selection, and that is where loads of people still fail. Picking a decent case, a good quality PSU, and a reliable motherboard takes more than a trip to the local Best Buy. That situation is getting better, but still not quite easy enough for novices, especially novices on a budget.

[slowtarget]

Just one of the many reasonably priced, mid level gaming PC's on newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229285

Heh.

That computer was never a "gamer ultimate" box. It's 6670 is a mid-range graphics card. And to be honest, you shouldn't expect a "ultimate" (or even "gamer") PC for $600.

That said, it looks like a good package for $600. Add an LCD monitor for $100 and you've got a decent system for low-mid level gaming... such as Civ V and Diablo III.

[stethnorun]

I wouldn't say its quite that easy. Sure, there's nothing that's outright difficult. The old days where we had to set jumpers and calculate power draws on rails is gone, but there are still some details that cause problems. Just check out the support forum of your favorite game and see reports of people who built computers and are having problems with heat (bad cooler install or bad case layout) or unexplained slow performance (my favorite: DDR RAM installed as single-channel). It's way easier than it used to be, but you should still do your research beforehand.

The result of this, however, is that the "expert" part is no longer the physical assembly, but in the part selection, and that is where loads of people still fail. Picking a decent case, a good quality PSU, and a reliable motherboard takes more than a trip to the local Best Buy. That situation is getting better, but still not quite easy enough for novices, especially novices on a budget.

Yeah if you are buying parts at Best Buy, you are destined for failure. The best method I've found is find a good PC-building forum, ask for part recommendations after giving a budget and end-goal (PC that can run Civ 5 at max settings), find those parts (or similar ones) on Newegg.com, then assemble. Easy peasy.

[SirMaru]

If you want to just buy a PC and let someone else construct it, you can get a Dell XPS 8500 here for just $ 750:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...el_id=xps-8500

You could add on a Dell 23" LCD Monitor here for just another $ 170:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=19&oc=ST2320L

That is the way I buy my PC's. I don't want to bother with building them. For myself I usually add on a 3 year warrenty contract with US support and then replace it with the newest model when the warrenty runs out. I also add on Microsoft Office and Quicken. That should cover most of your needs.

Civ V runs just fine on the Dell I now operate.

[stethnorun]

If you want to just buy a PC and let someone else construct it, you can get a Dell XPS 8500 here for just $ 750:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...el_id=xps-8500

You could add on a Dell 23" LCD Monitor here for just another $ 170:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=19&oc=ST2320L

That is the way I buy my PC's. I don't want to bother with building them. For myself I usually add on a 3 year warrenty contract with US support and then replace it with the newest model when the warrenty runs out.

Civ V runs just fine on the Dell I now operate.

Uhhhhhh...don't do this. Dell uses the cheapest possible parts and then they charge your for mid-range parts (and then also charge you for assembly). What this means is that things are more likely to sputter out (dealing with India for tech support is horrible) and it also means upgrading parts is very difficult (good luck upgrading much with those cheap Dell motherboards).

All around, I would call this poor advice. SirMaru, you should really try to build your own next time. You will be shocked by how much better of a PC you can get, and for less money too.

[SirMaru]

dealing with India for tech support is horrible.

I pay extra for explicit US support and get a special extension to call them. I simply cannot understand "Indian" English.

Plus, if parts do break (which is very rare in my case), Dell ships me a replacement part and either has me take out the bad part and replace it via phone support or, if I am unable to handle it, sends a technician to my house to do it for me.

I know some folks who own their own auto lifts in their garages. They are automotive hobbyists and repair and enhance their own rigs. They also probably have better cars than I buy but I just buy from a dealer and get my repairs there.

I believe the folk singer, John Denver, bult his own airplanes from kits. He had a great time until one of his wings fell off and he died. He simply didn't tighten the bolts enough.

Whether or not we build or buy our own PC's depends on our own spare time, interests and skills. The OP must decide that for himself.

[Shark2346]

Yeah I mean I would love to build my own computer, I have been contemplating that for the last couple days. I just have heard stories of not putting in the power source correctly or something ridiculous and then computer shorts out. I really don't know very much about the technical inner workings of a computer. I understand what the purpose of everything is but I have no idea how it all goes together.

I don't mind buying a mid-level and upgrading it later. That was my plan all along. I just am not entirely sure what is considered "mid-level" since everything changes so quickly.

Thanks for all of the information, the debate has really helped me answer some questions. Keep it coming.

EDIT: Also as far as that cyberpower PC from Newegg.. I had looked at just building one straight from CyberPower and putting in the products I thought would fit my lifestyle as a gamer. Really I just need help understanding the AMD processors. I am leaning towards getting a machine with AMD because they are cheaper for essentially the same thing as Intel from my understanding? I just don't know anything about Graphics card #s or AMD #s

[stethnorun]

I don't mind buying a mid-level and upgrading it later. That was my plan all along. I just am not entirely sure what is considered "mid-level" since everything changes so quickly.

A few things: Above all, if you plan to upgrade later, make sure of two things: you have a good power supply and you have a good motherboard. Everything else can be swapped out easily, but without enough (and reliable) power, you are screwed and without an adaptable motherboard, nothing is getting upgraded. Everything else (memory, processor, graphics card, etc) can be upgraded easily.

Between AMD and Intel, I've always just stuck with Intel, as they have never let me down. Someone else may have more info on that. But between ATI and Nvidia, I would strongly consider going Nvidia. ATI, while usually SLIGHTLY more powerful than Nvidia, often has driver/compatibility issues with games. Of course, patches and new drivers always eventually fix this, but I can't imagine a more infuriating circumstance than getting a much anticipated game and it not working. In my 15+ years of PC gaming, and countless Nvidia cards, I've never run into that problem once. My friends who use ATI...quite another story.

As for the idea of screwing something up during assembly...I've talked people through the process over the phone and it's been extremely simple. In fact, most times I was simply reading the instructions to them, and the only reason I was doing it was to make them feel more comfortable. If they had just read the instructions themselves and been a bit braver, I wouldn't even have been needed.

Basically, don't sweat it. As long as you buy parts from reputable manufacturers (Corsair, Asus, EVGA, etc.) you don't have to worry even if something DOES go wrong. They all have top-notch (free and non-Indian) tech support.

[SamBC]

I've always gone for AMD CPUs, and never regretted it.

PSUs can be upgraded later, without too much bother, unless you have a very non-standard case. Motherboards really are the axis on which everything else turns. Most bother to replace (if not replacing other stuff), determines what you can use in terms of all the other hardware.

[Shark2346]

Okay well it sounds like building it would be the best idea and probably a good activity to do with my Dad on a weekend or something. So if I was to build a computer myself any suggestions on where to buy parts. Newegg has been mentioned a few times already.

Any suggestions on Motherboards, graphics cards or anything else?

What should I be looking for in terms of the Chasis(case)?

EDIT: How about Air cooled fans vs. liquid cooled fans? It looks like I could buy 3 air fans for the same price as 1 liquid from Corsair. What is the benefit? and is 1 liquid worth 3 air?

I am still skeptical about building it myself though. I am not experienced with building electronics but I am also confident in my ability to read and follow instructions. I just want to make sure you fellas aren't over simplifying the process of putting it together because of your experiences?

Also in terms of the instructions, where would I find those? is it something that comes with each individual computer casing? Or something that comes with each individual part?

[stethnorun]

Okay well it sounds like building it would be the best idea and probably a good activity to do with my Dad on a weekend or something. So if I was to build a computer myself any suggestions on where to buy parts. Newegg has been mentioned a few times already.

Any suggestions on Motherboards, graphics cards or anything else?

What should I be looking for in terms of the Chasis(case)?

I am still skeptical about building it myself though. I am not experienced with building electronics but I am also confident in my ability to read and follow instructions. I just want to make sure you fellas aren't over simplifying the process of putting it together because of your experiences?

Also in terms of the instructions, where would I find those? is it something that comes with each individual computer casing? Or something that comes with each individual part?

A mixture of both. The mobo instructions will give you most of the picture, the case instructions will give you the rest, and the part instructions will fill in any potential gaps. Also, assuming you have another PC handy (or even a smart phone), there are tons and tons of guides and forums to help you out along the way. Information is not going to be a problem.

If you know how to use a screw driver and especially if you have your dad helping you (it can sometime be tricky, though not impossible, to screw the power supply into the case if you have to hold the thing steady yourself), it's going to be about as difficult as assembling IKEA furniture, like I said above. The most annoying part is figuring out where to stash the excess power cords coming off the PSU (power supply unit) but that's an organizational thing, not an "I don't know what I'm doing" thing.

No specific suggestions, but for the mobo, spend a little extra money to future-proof it. For instance, (hypothetical) if someone says DDR4 memory is coming out soon, maybe try to find a mobo that has DDR4 slots, even if for now, you only put DDR3 memory in. The same goes for PCI express slots (are we still on v 2.0 or has it gotten above that since I've built mine?) and processor sockets. Don't go with older processor socket mobos just to save money.

Yes, the PSU can be upgraded easily, but it's one of those things that's better to buy once and be covered forever. PSUs, unlike most other parts in a PC, don't continuously drop in price because the technology largely remains the same. Therefor, a 750 watt PSU is going to cost you the same thing now that it will 2 years from now. So you may as well get that purchase over with and never look back.

Definitely use Newegg.com. They have a "Preferred Account" type thing where if you spend $500 or over (which this purchase will certainly be that), you don't have to pay it all off for a year (or if $250, 6 months). My girlfriend and I use that thing all the time. Also the customer support at Newegg is second to none. They basically fall over themselves to send out replacement parts or whatever, often covering the cost of shipping as well. I've even had them honor return/replacement policies that were WELL past the 30day mark.

So first thing: come up with a budget and a list of expectations. Do you want to not have to upgrade for 1, 2 or 3 years? Do you need all games on max settings? Do you want to buy new peripherals (mouse, keyboard, monitor) or are you just going to use your old ones? Once you have a firm understanding of what you want out of your new PC and how much you are willing to spend to get it, you can start getting suggested builds from knowledgeable forum-goers.

[SamBC]

One thing I've known people to miss because it wasn't in any instructions... the seating bolts for the motherboard. Use them. Don't screw the motherboard directly to the backplate. Bad things happen.

The most physically difficult, and potentially damaging to equipment, stage of things is fastening the heatsink on top of the CPU. I haven't done this for a few years, so I'm not sure how many CPUs these days have exposed chips, but if they do, you can kill the CPU by messing up on applying the heatsink. Makes a little crunching noise, and then doesn't work.

Pretty much everything else is screws and snap-together connectors.

[slowtarget]

Okay well it sounds like building it would be the best idea and probably a good activity to do with my Dad on a weekend or something. So if I was to build a computer myself any suggestions on where to buy parts. Newegg has been mentioned a few times already.

Newegg is an excellent source. If you're doing your first build, they are probably the best place to go. Once you start getting wacky with specialized coolers or accessories, you can venture off into the wilder parts of PC building, but for now: Newegg. Of course, Amazon does work, too, and I've got decent deals there. The reviews on Amazon, however, are not nearly as helpful.

Any suggestions on Motherboards, graphics cards or anything else?

General questions like that tend to open the floodgates, but let me try to be as concise as possible. Everyone has their favorite brands. However, some come up repeatedly and you'll generally have good luck if you stick to the most common ones:

Motherboards: I like ASUS, but MSI and Gigabyte have been putting out some great boards lately, too.
Video Cards: To be honest, both nVidia and AMD/ATi cards are good. In recent years, the reliable video cards have been made by the same people that make reliable motherboards (which is appropriate).

RAM: Don't waste money on "fast" RAM. DDR3-1333 is fast enough, and the faster varieties (DDR3-1600, CL7, whatever) often charge 10-50% more for 1-5% improvements in performance.

Power Supply: Don't cheap out on Power Supplies. Yes, you can buy a 500W PSU for $20. Don't do it. For 500W, expect to pay around $60-70. Seasonic, Corsair, Enermax, and Antec are decent brands in that price bracket.

What should I be looking for in terms of the Chasis(case)?

For first-time builds, I suggest a Mid-tower ATX. This is the most common form factor and it is often the "default" for compatibility. It will also give you enough space that you don't need any specialized tools or experience to figure out how to get everything in place.

I am still skeptical about building it myself though. I am not experienced with building electronics but I am also confident in my ability to read and follow instructions. I just want to make sure you fellas aren't over simplifying the process of putting it together because of your experiences?

It really is pretty simple to get a simple build set up. Modern PC components have been engineered to take most of the confusion away. In most cases, the plugs are shaped to only allow compatible connections. You can't install RAM backwards or plug a SATA power cable into an ATX-12V plug. The most challenging part of my last build was figuring out which direction the headers (er... sets of pins on the motherboard that accept plugs) for the front panel went. It took about a few minutes to confirm.

Beyond that, there is the physical act of assembly. While it's not really any harder than screwing in some screws, there can be a decent number of them and you don't always have a lot of room to work with. That's not something that experience really helps with. Just remember to do all the screwing-in before you move on to the cables. It won't hurt anything to do it the other way, but its nice to keep them out of the way and saves you time if you need to pull stuff out and try again.

Also in terms of the instructions, where would I find those? is it something that comes with each individual computer casing? Or something that comes with each individual part?

Yes, and yes. Cases often come with full instructions on how to mount/secure pretty much every component they support. The components often have duplicate instructions, based on the most common case configurations. In general, you don't really need either. As I said: Installation is usually nothing more than a screwdriver, some twisting, and a bit of trial-and-error.

When in doubt, post a message to one of the more common PC builder forums. I prefer AnandTech and SilentPCReview, but there are others that are just as good.

[slowtarget]

One thing I've known people to miss because it wasn't in any instructions... the seating bolts for the motherboard. Use them. Don't screw the motherboard directly to the backplate. Bad things happen.

That's pretty rare now. Many cases actually pre-install some of the standoffs just to make sure that people realize that it needs to be done. The rest of them often use different diameter holes for the case and motherboard sides of the standoffs, making it impossible to screw the motherboard-screws into the case. Also, most CPU mounting brackets are too thick to allow for this.

The most physically difficult, and potentially damaging to equipment, stage of things is fastening the heatsink on top of the CPU. I haven't done this for a few years, so I'm not sure how many CPUs these days have exposed chips, but if they do, you can kill the CPU by messing up on applying the heatsink. Makes a little crunching noise, and then doesn't work.

All current CPUs use heatspreaders. For those of you who aren't familiar, there was a time when the CPU was exposed and that was what you clamped your heatsink onto (they were about 0.25 in by 0.4 in, if I remember correctly). Now days, all CPU's are covered and protected by a heat spreader (which is more like 1 in by 1 in). If you clamp your heatsink down too hard, you are more likely to break your motherboard than your CPU.

Even then, the majority of heatsinks available today are either the stock heatsink (designed to never exert too much force) or held in place by springs which are engineered to exert (only) an acceptable amount of pressure.

The days of cracking CPUs is over. The bigger issue now is the correct application of thermal grease and the fear of cracking a motherboard by hanging an overly heavy heatsink on it. If the OP is just doing a standard build, there's no reason to use anything but the stock heatsink and both issues can be safely ignored.

[mattcrwi]

I personally don't think building your own is worth the hassle for novices. Sites like cyberpowerpc.com will give close to the same price as buying parts from new egg without the assembly issues and warranty on the whole computer instead of parts.

[slowtarget]

If you want to just buy a PC and let someone else construct it, you can get a Dell XPS 8500 here for just $ 750

While the OP doesn't seem to be seriously considering this, I figured I'd follow this up for anyone in the audience:

The Dell system linked for $750 does not have any better performance than the $600 Cyberpower system. And for that extra $150, you're still getting a low quality motherboard and power supply, and no way to replace them or upgrade them in the future. If you want US-based support, you're going to pay even more. In the end, the cost of the system you describe is nearing $1000.

I have nothing against Dell. Just recognize that when you buy a Dell system, you're not paying for a guarantee of quality, but a guarantee that it will be easy to fix it if the parts fail. Dells are perfect for situations like businesses or home-utility computers (web surfing, email, flash games, etc) where you want a corporation to help you if you have problems. If you want a truly reliable pre-built system, then you have better options (eg: ASUS). If you want better service options, Dell's not your best option either, as many of the most commonly replaced parts (Motherboard and PSU) are non-standard and only obtainable via Dell.

[slowtarget]

I personally don't think building your own is worth the hassle for novices. Sites like cyberpowerpc.com will give close to the same price as buying parts from new egg without the assembly issues and warranty on the whole computer instead of parts.

I agree to a point: I've actually called out Cyberpower in the past for putting junk power supplies in their builds, including builds that were designed for overclocking. Having Cyberpower do the assembly isn't any better guarantee than doing it yourself, and they are far more likely to use junk components than a normal person would be.

[Shark2346]

Thanks everyone, this is a lot of useful information and I am learning a lot from researching on my own.

I don't need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers. I have all of those things as I was connecting them all to my Laptop before.

I was considering the Corsair TX750w V2 power supply. I figure that it would be more than enough for now and with the mail in rebate from newegg.com comes in at a pretty cheap $89.

My real issue is trying to decide on a processor. I like AMDs prices but as I understand it the new FX series really doesn't offer a lot of benefit over the A series and both are comparable to the i5. From what I have read though the FX series offers better multi-threading technology. So if I get the AMD FX-4100 quad core 3.8ghz for $109 and put in 4x2gb memory I should have a pretty smooth computer.

But again I am a computer building noob and this is all speculation and my interpretation of what I have read.

I would like to be able to play Civ5 on the highest settings possible, but high end graphics cards (as many of you know) could destroy a budget builder. I am also confused about what each series of graphics card offers. Is a mid-grade graphics card good enough to play Civ5 on high settings?

EDIT:

If I am looking at a motherboard and it says that the Memory Supported is Dual Channel, what exactly does that mean?

[Shark2346]

While the OP doesn't seem to be seriously considering this, I figured I'd follow this up for anyone in the audience:

The Dell system linked for $750 does not have any better performance than the $600 Cyberpower system. And for that extra $150, you're still getting a low quality motherboard and power supply, and no way to replace them or upgrade them in the future. If you want US-based support, you're going to pay even more. In the end, the cost of the system you describe is nearing $1000.

I have nothing against Dell. Just recognize that when you buy a Dell system, you're not paying for a guarantee of quality, but a guarantee that it will be easy to fix it if the parts fail. Dells are perfect for situations like businesses or home-utility computers (web surfing, email, flash games, etc) where you want a corporation to help you if you have problems. If you want a truly reliable pre-built system, then you have better options (eg: ASUS). If you want better service options, Dell's not your best option either, as many of the most commonly replaced parts (Motherboard and PSU) are non-standard and only obtainable via Dell.

And I was considering doing CyberPower or a site like this. But I have had multiple people tell me that they are just as reliable as building it yourself. In this case I know I can trust myself to put the things I want in my computer and quality brands.

Dell was never an option for me because "brand name" companies always jack up their prices for no reason.

I was on the fence about building it myself before I posted but I am leaning heavily towards making the build myself. I can save money in some areas and spend more in others if I do this. Something "custom build" companies don't always let you do. I don't need an internal hard drive that has 1TB of memory. So I can cut some small costs there by going with a 500GB or even 250GB. Costs I can put into something else more important to me.

[slowtarget]

Thanks everyone, this is a lot of useful information and I am learning a lot from researching on my own.

You're welcome (speaking on behalf of everyone else).

I was considering the Corsair TX750w V2 power supply. I figure that it would be more than enough for now and with the mail in rebate from newegg.com comes in at a pretty cheap $89.

That would definitely work. You could easily drop down to the TX650 V2 (a copy of my Seasonic X650) and still have plenty of spare power. Video cards and CPUs are using less power than they used to, so unless you plan on upgrading to a SLI/Crossfire system, 650W of good power should be enough for the life of that PSU. I see the TX650 as $70 after rebate.

My real issue is trying to decide on a processor.

Here's the honest truth: Buy a decent processor and you probably won't really ever think about it afterward. I hear the FX's are decent, but the 4100 is not really comparable to the i5-2500. The 2500 is quite a bit more powerful. However, the 2500 is also quite a bit more powerful than most people really need. For the price difference, the 4100 might be a good deal for you.

Note, however, that there is no good upgrade path from the 4100 to something like a 2500. Intel and AMD use different motherboards, and if you want to replace the CPU, you need to replace the motherboard with it.

But again I am a computer building noob and this is all speculation and my interpretation of what I have read.

For a "noob", you're doing pretty well. Also, remember that everyone who builds systems was a noob once. The reason why I and other experienced builders know what we know is because other people helped us learn.

I would like to be able to play Civ5 on the highest settings possible, but high end graphics cards (as many of you know) could destroy a budget builder. I am also confused about what each series of graphics card offers. Is a mid-grade graphics card good enough to play Civ5 on high settings?

High enough, I'd say. I think the nVidia 560 Ti and AMD 6850 are probably the most popular bang-for-your-buck cards, and both of them can run Civ 5 at the highest settings (with DX11 and moderate anti-aliasing), assuming you're talking about a single display.

[SirMaru]

Slowtarget,

You mentioned Asus before. I noticed they are located in Taiwan and sell through Amazon. On your recommendation I searched their offerings and came up with this:

http://www.amazon.com/Asus-ET2410IUT...7710591&sr=1-9

Its an "all in one" without a separate CPU! It appears the CPU functions are built into the monitor housing and the monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN. It runs for $ 1,000 with another $ 180 required for a 4 year warrenty.

Plus, since Amazon sells it as Amazon Prime, one gets 2 days free shipping and at least a 30 day money back guarantee with no questions asked if one has the Prime service. It definitely competes with the best Dell offers.

Is it possible to build an "all in one" PC from a kit?

Its also possible that the next generation of games like Civ 6 may incorporate touch screen functions as well.

[Shark2346]

Thanks SlowTarget.

Yeah I need to bring the price of the build I am looking at down a little bit, so that 650W will help a bit. I was at $750 and then remembered that I have to buy Windows 7. Which will add to the cost of the PC.

If that is true about the i5 2500 being better than the FX 4100 series. Then I should probably look at i5s. My only problem is that Intels tend to cost much more. It is almost $110 jump from the FX 4100 to the i5 2500. But I am not looking at this more closely because it is the difference between having to upgrade sooner or later and that means more long term $$$

[SirMaru]

Thanks SlowTarget.

Yeah I need to bring the price of the build I am looking at down a little bit, so that 650W will help a bit. I was at $750 and then remembered that I have to buy Windows 7. Which will add to the cost of the PC.

If that is true about the i5 2500 being better than the FX 4100 series. Then I should probably look at i5s. My only problem is that Intels tend to cost much more. It is almost $110 jump from the FX 4100 to the i5 2500. But I am not looking at this more closely because it is the difference between having to upgrade sooner or later and that means more long term $$$

If this is the first PC build you have ever tried, you must also figure the learning curve costs of time and mistakes. If your dad has built a few in the past, that would tend to erase the learning curve.

[stethnorun]

If this is the first PC build you have ever tried, you must also figure the learning curve costs of time and mistakes. If your dad has built a few in the past, that would tend to erase the learning curve.

Mistakes? Have you ever actually tried doing this? Everyone I know who has tried building their own PC with parts off of newegg (at least 3 people that I can think of off hand) has had zero problems or "mistakes". Even when memory arrived fried (happens once out of every five times), they simply got a replacement part and carried on. You sound like you've either tried to do this and had some traumatic experience, or you don't know what you are talking about and are speaking from a place of your own hesitation.

[SirMaru]

Mistakes? Have you ever actually tried doing this? Everyone I know who has tried building their own PC with parts off of newegg (at least 3 people that I can think of off hand) has had zero problems or "mistakes". Even when memory arrived fried (happens once out of every five times), they simply got a replacement part and carried on. You sound like you've either tried to do this and had some traumatic experience, or you don't know what you are talking about and are speaking from a place of your own hesitation.

EVERYTHING new I've tried has gone through a difficult learning curve whether it be a new car, a kindle fire, a new pc, a new game, a new software program, a new tv, a new radio, a new bed, a new chair, etc. However, we are all different. Maybe some folks do not go through learning curves

[stethnorun]

EVERYTHING new I've tried has gone through a difficult learning curve whether it be a new car, a kindle fire, a new pc, a new game, a new software program, a new gulf stream, a bed, a new chair, etc. However, we are all different. Maybe some folks do not go through learning curves.

Wow, sucks dude. You are a walking Murphey's law

[jpbar81]

Yeah, building a PC isn't really that difficult. As was said, I agree that the most difficult thing is cable management and making the rig look "pretty", lol (well, not solely for looks; it helps with airflow as well and maintenance). You probably won't have any problems, especially if you’re the type of person that is cautious and fastidious, always reads manuals/instructions, and researches things. If you're not that type, you’ll probably still not have any real problems, lol... components are pretty robust now, and I've read of people doing some pretty silly things with them due to inexperience. You just may not have a system that's as stable, performs as tightly, or lasts a decent amount of time if you’re not as fastidious. Though, again, some don't really care much for stability and just want power/performance.

Newegg.com is the place to go for all online purchases. The best, in my opinion; I don’t even look anywhere else. The prices and services are great. The user reviews and ratings are also sometimes helpful. The site is easy to navigate and search for things with plenty of filters, and plenty of specifications are usually listed.

I’m not sure where you’re located, but Microcenter is my favorite brick and mortar store for all my hardware purchases when I’m impatient, lol. They have almost everything and they match Newegg prices if you notify them of a cheaper price online. I typically get cases here so that I don’t have to have a huge package delivered or sitting around outside (plus, they have ones on display that you can pick up and look thru). They also carry quality gaming gear by companies like SteelSeries or Razer.

Here are some brands I'm a fan of:

Cases: Antec (Corsair 2nd)
CPU’s: Intel!
Mobos: ASUS
GPU’s: Always Nvidia + EVGA (ASUS 2nd)
Memory: Corsair (G.Skill 2nd)
PSU’s: Corsair (Antec 2nd) (Never cheap-out on these!)
SSD’s: Intel
HDD’s: Western Digital
ODD’s: ASUS OEM… not really a big deal. (LITE-ON 2nd)
CPU Cooling: Corsair (CoolerMaster 2nd)
Fans: Scythe (Antec 2nd)
Monitors: ASUS
Keyboards/Mice/Surfaces/Headphones: SteelSeries (I used to be a Razer fan; switched teams)
UPS’s: APC

As you can see, I’m on team Intel/Nvidia and I’m a big fan of Corsair. Corsair may be a bit more on the expensive side, but they make high quality products; I love ‘em. I also really dig ASUS and Antec. I used to buy Razer, but I’m switching over to SteelSeries for their high quality products and no-nonsense/minimalistic design approach. (Yeah, I have to have matching logos on my gaming gear for some compulsive reason, lol... along with PC components that are only black and/or blue. I'm nuts.)

[slowtarget]

Yeah I need to bring the price of the build I am looking at down a little bit, so that 650W will help a bit. I was at $750 and then remembered that I have to buy Windows 7. Which will add to the cost of the PC.

Look into getting an OEM copy of Win7. It's the same version as Standard, but it comes with some restrictions (notably: you can't transfer the license to a new PC). The legality of buying it for yourself isn't completely clear, but thousands of people do it and MS has made no attempt to stop it. In a pinch, all you should be able to record it as being built by someone else and purchased for your use.

An OEM copy of Win7 is something like $90-100.

If that is true about the i5 2500 being better than the FX 4100 series. Then I should probably look at i5s. My only problem is that Intels tend to cost much more.

That's the whole issue. For raw value, the 2500's can't be beaten right now. However, demand hasn't lessened and the new generation isn't so much better that the 2500's are likely to drop significantly in price. The best you could do is look for an i5-2500 as opposed to the far-more-popular i5-2500K. The 'K' version only has value if you plan to overclock, which is something I wouldn't recommend for your first build.

At the moment, I see 2500's pegged at $209 pretty much everywhere, and the 4100 is pretty solidly at $109. At this point, you should take a serious look at what you expect out of the system, and how long you want it to last. It is very possible that the 2500 is more than you actually need. I'll be completely honest and say that I'm currently using a CPU which is more than I actually need. However, I've paid all my college loans, and I make a pretty good salary, and building is now something of a hobby for me.

[SamBC]

My crushing-CPU incident (not actually me, a 'more experienced' friend who was helping out) was mid-last-decade on a mid-range lower-end AMD CPU. Can't remember the series though, never mind the model. In my experience of PC building, it seemed to be after a long period of there being covers of one sort or another on CPUs (or the weird cartridge design of one generation of pentiums - was the the P2?) - it threw me when I unboxed the CPU and saw the exposed chips! I'm pleased to hear they've gone back to covering them now. The last couple of home builds I did were mini-ITX rigs with integrated heat sinks (and no fan at all on one of them). The problems with mini-ITX building are very different to desktop building - and you wouldn't want one for a gaming rig, generally.

[slowtarget]

You mentioned Asus before. I noticed they are located in Taiwan and sell through Amazon.

They sell through loads of places, including NewEgg, TigerDirect, NCIX, Best Buy, Microcenter, and Frys.

They've been around since I started building PCs back in 1997, and have made motherboards for a number of other companies.

Its an "all in one" without a separate CPU! It appears the CPU functions are built into the monitor housing and the monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN.

Er... Let's not say "without a separate CPU". A CPU is a processor. You mean: "Without a separate chassis" or, in leet-builder-talk: "without a box".

It runs for $ 1,000 with another $ 180 required for a 4 year warrenty.

It's an Asus. The warranty generally isn't worth it. Of course, their all-in-one's are new, so there might still be some manufacturing issues they're working out.

Is it possible to build an "all in one" PC from a kit?

Heh. Generally: No.

There are some crafters out there who can and do pull off just about anything, but that's an extremely specialized market. For all practical purposes, building an all-in-one or laptop PC is not really possible. It's not that there aren't people with the ability, its that there are no standardized form factors that allow for simple part substitutions.

Its also possible that the next generation of games like Civ 6 may incorporate touch screen functions as well.

There is already some support for such things now. Adapting touch data into mouse data is pretty easy, except that touch screens don't (can't!) send "mouseover" events, as they don't know where you finger is when its not on the screen. However, I do agree that games, applications, and even operating systems themselves are going to include more optimizations for touch screens.

[slowtarget]

Yeah, building a PC isn't really that difficult. ... components are pretty robust now, and I've read of people doing some pretty silly things with them due to inexperience. You just may not have a system that's as stable, performs as tightly, or lasts a decent amount of time if you’re not as fastidious.

I really think the way to minimize this is to follow the herd. Favor the components that are popular. While this seem to be a shallow attempt to say that popularity = quality, the truth is more subtle: If you choose a build that has a lot of common components/combinations, you are far more likely to have other people who have already seen the potential problems with it and come up with solutions. Also: Software is more likely to be tested on your hardware.

I’m not sure where you’re located, but Microcenter is my favorite brick and mortar store for all my hardware purchases when I’m impatient, lol.

I'll admit that Microcenter is a good place to go, if you've got one nearby. I, however, am currently boycotting my local store after they took a month to fix a loose DC jack on a laptop. One month, and zero communication during that time other than the initial request to start work.

Here are some brands I'm a fan of:

Cases: Antec (Corsair 2nd)

Corsair is going to be a bit expensive for the OP. Check out Antec's non-signature line for some affordable, quality cases.

GPU’s: Always Nvidia + EVGA (ASUS 2nd)

I've always used nVidia (ASUS, MSI, and Gigabyte), but there's no reason why anyone else should follow my lead.

Memory: Corsair (G.Skill 2nd)

Again, Corsair is good quality, but without overclocking, it's more expensive than the OP needs. G.Skill is better. Honestly: Kingston would be fine.

PSU’s: Corsair (Antec 2nd) (Never cheap-out on these!)

It's worth noting that almost all of the recent, mid-range Corsair PSU's are just Seasonic PSUs with Corsair stickers on them. That's nothing against Corsair. Antec doesn't make PSU's either. They re-brand PSU's made by Seasonic and CWT. Point here: Check multiple brands. The Corsair TX650V2 is the exact same PSU as the Seasonic X650. If you can't get a sale/rebate on one, check the other.

SSD’s: Intel

SSDs are too volatile to really judge brands at the moment. Intel might have the best quality control, but other brands have much better real-world performance. Also, again, it's worth pointing out that there are about a dozen major brands of SSD, but only three major manufacturers.

HDD’s: Western Digital

Ugh. Hard drives. They used to be so important, and they are currently sliding into commodity land. I still trust WD, but Samsung and Hitachi (I think) seem to actually be at the same level of reliability right now.

ODD’s: ASUS OEM… not really a big deal. (LITE-ON 2nd)

No one cares about optical anymore. They might as well give the things out as keychains. I barely use mine as it is. If it were to die tomorrow, I'd probably just order a new one. They cost all of $20.

CPU Cooling: Corsair (CoolerMaster 2nd)

As much as I like Corsair, here is a place where they just aren't worth it. Their H-Series (closed-system water coolers) just aren't needed with modern CPUs, and the A-series (A70 in particular) is just another re-hash of the the old Xigmatek HDT cooler (aka: CoolerMaster Hyper 212, etc), but at the highest price of the family.

Fans: Scythe (Antec 2nd)

Okay, agreed. I also like my NoiseBlockers, but at $20 a pop, they're not for budget builds.

[Magic_Hotdog]

Oops nevermind I brainfarted. Was thinking of something else.

[Shark2346]

Thanks SlowTarget and jpbar again and again.

All of this is really helping me figure out how to save some money in spots. Now that I know some other brands that are as reliable to corsair but cheaper that should help bring down the cost of the PC build that I had kind of put together earlier in the day.

I think I am going to put together a sample of the build I am thinking about and post it. Maybe get a feel for what you guys think.

Building one is really appealing to me now and I am good with following directions and usually have overall good instincts with things.

Thanks again.

[Shark2346]

Okay so I put together something that I like so far... But it is still way outside my price range. It is pretty difficult to build a decent PC to play a few games on a budget it seems.

Case: Antec Three Hundred $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

CPU: i5-2500 $209
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115073

Hard drive: Western Digital Caviar blue 500gb $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136769

RAM: CorsairXMS3 8GB (4x2gb) $55, ended up being the same as the g.skill
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145262

Mobo: ASUS $103 including shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131836

PSU: Still sticking with the Corsair TX650 V2. Was the cheapest 650w at $90 or $70 after Mail in Rebate

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 560Ti $230

Then after adding in the network cards, sound card and Windows I am looking at over $1000.

That is about $300 out of my price range.

The TigerDirect outlet near my house had a decent gaming machine that they custom build there for ~$870 with Windows included. Although I cannot remember the specs exactly though.

I wish I wasn't a semi-poor new grad haha.

[slowtarget]

Then after adding in the network cards, sound card and Windows I am looking at over $1000.

Well, you're in luck here. Your motherboard (like most motherboards these days) already has a built-in sound card and gigabit LAN. The LAN is more than capable of handling normal consumer network needs and the sound is good enough that most people don't actually add on dedicated sound cards now. So you can eliminate that cost. You'll just have the Windows license. I suggest:

Windows 7 Home (64bit) $99

I show the final price for everything above at just short of $850. For that price, you have a really good build, as the combo of the 2500 and the 560 Ti will run every AAA title on the market right now at pretty high quality. That said, you could cut some money in a few places. For the build you outlined above, a 650W power supply is far higher than you actually need. A 500W would work just fine. That could save you $10-20. You could drop the i5 2500 to a i5 2400, but that only gives you $20.

You can get a bigger drop by switching to a different video card:


EVGA nVidia 550 Ti ($115 after rebate)

ASUS AMD 6770 ($100 after rebate)

Both of these cards will be fine for the games you said you want to play, and will carve $100 off the price of the build. That would put you at a final price of something like $720.

Here's an easy way to drop $10. Switch your 4x2GB memory set with a 2x4GB memory set:

2x4GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 ($45)

So... that's down to $710. Does that improve your day?

[mattcrwi]

I've always thought tomshardware.com had the best graphics card round-up article. They do recommended card by price range. It looks like they recommend the 6790 at the $120 price range and nothing at the $100 range. They are going for about $130 on newegg though.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3107-3.html