Also, about UU for Serbia, as Pacha brought up, the Chetnik (infantry) should be fine. It is the most distinct and influential out of the ones that have been discussed.
Also, about UU for Serbia, as Pacha brought up, the Chetnik (infantry) should be fine. It is the most distinct and influential out of the ones that have been discussed.
Oh yes, that large area of mostly mountains stretching from Slovenia to Epirus doesn't have representation. Oh, poor them. It's so much larger than the gap with no representation that stretches from Libya to the Cape of Good Hope. Or from the Caspian Sea to Lhasa. So much larger.Originally Posted by mastika09
Hi PachaMinnie, quoting your post but reply goes to thread as well:
Because for example in civilization V germany has Bismark as a leader of germany and *not* Hitler, so I see no reason why would Chetniks and Serbs be included into Civilizatin V? this thread is ridiculous.
Somebody once said that italy should be included? lol, The same goes to Rome, It's roman empire in civilization V not Italy and even less fascists, these names are forbiden in civilization V so why do you guys spend you keyboards on such ridiculous discusions?
Also As far as I understand the history Hajudks were not Serbs lol.
@codekiddy
"Because for example in civilization V germany has Bismark as a leader of germany and *not* Hitler, so I see no reason why would Chetniks and Serbs be included into Civilizatin V"
What the hell was that supposed to mean?
But it is. It has both eastern and western influence. And how many orthodox christian countries are there in Civ? Russia. How many Slav countries? Russia. On the other hand we have a buttload of Catholic and Muslim representatives.
CodeKiddy what was that suppost to mean?
CodeKiddy your post also shows you too have no idea what is going on and who did what in the Balkans.
The Chetniks fought on the side of the Allies, against Germany.
In World War 2, the claim went something like this:
For every German killed, 100 Serbian civilians were to be killed. For every wounded, 50.
The Chetniks knew this and took this very seriously. They were NOT fascists. Do not try to put Serbia down to the level of the other Balkans nations that jumped on this ww2 bandwagon. They fought against it. The Chetniks did not use as a primary tactic fighting germany in military sense because they knew what their military capability realistically was and what Germany's was. They primary objective was to save the lives of the people. They fought on the side of the Allies, and saved 600 downed american pilots in the Halyard Mission. Read about it.
BlackGateof Mordor, if you have a Civ in mind go and argue for it. Not this threads problem. Do we need to now argue that Balkan hills and mountains made more of a historical impact than desert tiles and savannas?
I aplogize if my previous post was "too direct".
mastika09,
Sorry but I have no willing to go into that discution, that would probably lead into sections behind this thread title and probably against the forum rules.
There was a similar thread on civilization fanatics forums, Can't find the link right now but it was about leaders and "names" that have no chance to be considered to be included into civilization game(because of historical reasons).
That's what my opinion is about in the post above.
I would also like to add that adding Serbia as a civ and putting WW1 as a scenario would be a great thing cause not many strategy games cover that part of history save for some grand strategy games.
I'm actually asking what that means as well. Because that is horribly worded.
And how many countries occupying a previously unmentioned part of the world, not to mention having currently, five official religions, and many hundreds of non-official ones? And what does religion have to do with this? Not to mention:But it is. It has both eastern and western influence. And how many orthodox christian countries are there in Civ? Russia. How many Slav countries? Russia. On the other hand we have a buttload of Catholic and Muslim representatives.
a) There are two Islamic powers. Arabia (the caliphates) and the Ottomans.
b) There are three Catholic nations in the game. Spain, France and Austria. Please inform us of another, because that's about ten percent of the game's civs for a religion that has over 800 million followers.
The overarching point is, Serbia is a small nation that has never had much influence over the world. I'm sorry if you can't accept that. The glory days of my ancestral nation have come and gone, but I don't whine about inclusion of my country.
"The overarching point is, Serbia is a small nation" yes
"that has never had much influence over the world" 100% wrong
I guess I see your point. I just think foreigners probably shouldn't be the ones arguing with actual Serbs as to what their UU should be. After all the people you should worry the most about pleasing are the ones from the nationality you're trying to represent.
As far as the OP is concerned you've heard the opinions of a couple forum members on Serbia as a DLC. Perhaps the best way to find out if it would make for successful DLC is to start a poll. The real die hard fans are on the forums. A favorable vote would indicate that enough people would buy the DLC to make it worth while creating.
It's a good idea to avoid offending people of the nationality in question, but no, they shouldn't be the ones you're trying to please unless they represent a good market. If the majority of users look at the details and go "huh?", it doesn't help sales.
I think some other forum member could make a pool about it cause I am not really good with making pools work on any forum ever for some reason.
WW1 scenario is good idea too
I'd be for that.
To be honest the majority of the users wouldn't give a flying flip, most don't know any better anyway, historical accuracy hasn't hurt the sales yet. I'm with you on the market thing, it's why I've been saying that I doubt they'll make it as a full on civ, the WWI scenario sounds like the most viable possibility. I'm not arguing against their inclusion but not every nation, cultural group or tribe are going to make it. The best bet is to make a mod for them. I wouldn't doubt the devs watch which mod civs get the most downloads and take that into account when coming up with ideas for DLC or expansion.
Oh no no my friend, I may never have been born in Serbia, that doesn't mean I'm a foreigner exactly. Macedonia and Serbia are VERY closely related, in fact Serbia had Macedonia in her borders for a very long time. To a Serb, Serbia is very important, but to 90% of the rest of the world... not so much. Not to mention the fact Macedonia and Serbia where in the same country, Yugoslavia, from 1918 to 1992.
I really like a World War 1 scenario. Seems like a jolly good time.
Also, Chetniks where no bad guys, unless you want to count fighting facism under Tito evil. Chetniks where not just world war 2 however, as they where active from 1903 to 1946. Mostly in Macedonia, however they soon branched out. They had many enemies, including other revolutionary groups such as the IMRO. Believe me, they where no bad guys [It depends on your point of view, but my point of view is they where nice people].
On what BlackGate said about Serbia's influence, he's right. Compared to 90% of the nations in Civilizations, very tiny influence.
While I have no personal problem with Serbia, I feel like their likelihood of being included is very small. I also haven't heard particularly convincing arguments about what they would add to the game (UUs, UBs and UA).
I would enjoy a WW1 scenario (with Serbia playable), though. Seems like a great idea since G&K is adding a bunch of WW1 units anyways.
I have added 2 new additions to my original overview of Serbia. You read it before, but I have added it to this thread too. A new UB I added is called Splav. It is a popular form of nightclub in Belgrade (nightclubs on the river). It can contribute to happiness/culture, but can only be built in a city beside obvs, a river. :P
For UU, this has been talked about few times, there are a few choices.
For a unique ability, I also thought of another one. There was the partisan bonus brought up. Another one is Guardians of the Gate which would incorporate the new mechanism of faith.
Just some ideas.
Also, maybe in some way a UU called a Guslar can be incorporated. It is a cultural associated unit. Something new. Here is some info on them. Basically, they played the Serbian instrument called Gusla(plural Gusle) and together with the intrument recited epic poetry and stories to bring morale of serbian people up in the harsh times of ottoman occupation.
http://www.babamim.com/role_of_the_gusle_guslar
http://www.njegos.org/heritage/gusle.htm
Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x-Aw...eature=related
Last edited by mastika09; 05-21-2012 at 04:14 PM.
Those are some interesting ideas. Maybe the Guslar could be similar to great generals in providing bonuses to nearby units.
I've been casually skimming this thread every now and then. I do like the idea of a UA based on the faith mechanic. The celts/byzantines do not need to be the only civ that have something like that.
What would splav replace?
Last edited by SlickSlicer; 05-21-2012 at 07:39 PM.
I dont mind the faith mechanic brought up as "guardian of the gate." There are different ways this can be implemented.
As for Guslar, one can get fairly creative with this, but I think units that have been discussed previously are most reasonable.
As for the building splav can replace, dont know.
There is also Serbian Orthodox Church. Maybe Obro has an idea for unique building?
Last edited by mastika09; 05-21-2012 at 11:33 PM.
UA is actually pretty simple. Bonus on defense when in war if you're not the attacker or units always fight at full strength (like Japanese special ability) except only in home territory and only if you were the attacked not the attacker.
As for unique building ... I .. idk honestly. Splav is .. hehe it's not a unique building material really xD. But Maria Theresa's unique building is a freaking coffee house and that's honestly a little dull. If that is a unique building for Theresa then Serbia unique building can be Kafana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafana
Or Orthodox monasteries which as plentiful in Serbia but I don't in what way would they differ from the regular monastery building.
I find this a problematic idea. You're basically giving them a UA that's exactly the same as the Japanese, except worse. That's not particularly creative. Your other idea is more or less the same as Ethiopia's as well.units always fight at full strength (like Japanese special ability) except only in home territory and only if you were the attacked not the attacker.
wasnt really brainstorming about it I was just giving a pointer idea and the Japanese UA is pretty OP so I balanced it out a little. Let me check the new things being added in the expansion and let me think of a new one that will fit better...
Ok for example concerning the religion mechanic being introduced .. a bonus if you are Christian and fighting someone with Islam considering the history of the nation and the position between east and west but idk ... that can be miss interpreted by some as offensive.
Next we can have bonus faith generation when fighting a player with a bigger score than you. Combining that with say Ortodox Monastery (if picked as a UB) can be in theme to pick Serbia if you want to play a small faith/culture civ. (don't know the numbers of how much of a bonus generation cause I don't know how it will work)
Any way you turn it I believe that the UA should be about giving bonuses when defending. And the UU should definitely be Chetniks and they should replace WW1 infantry and have no penalty when going through woods and hills for example.
The religions in Civ V are just templates. They could not have a UA that gives them a benefit, specifically, when being Christian. This would cause too many problems from a gameplay perspective.
However, a faith/defense bonus would be a good idea I think.
Well like I said I just mentioned it and kept it in theme of the new expansion set.
I think it would nice to have Serbia as a DLC. I would most certainly buy it.
However, it also goes with out saying that its inclusion could be to the dismay of some...bitter, nationalistic people. Probably not to a large scale, though.
Could we have Gordana Lazarevic's "Vidovdan" as some sort of orchestral interpretation as Serbia's main theme? :O
The Vidovdan song has to do with Kosovo and Metohija. It would give Serbia a "Faith" interpretation/approach to the game.
What 'major' influence? Apart from the early war with Austria and it's ill equiped multi national armies and then followed by occupation and a small front in macedonia which had no real importance on the war, For starters the front in modern day slovenia near the Soca/Isonzo river was far more important in all aspects.
Whoa? He considered launching crusades. LOL. I consider taking over the world. Can I be civ nao?
Let me name some;
Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth for starters(once the largest country in europe). Huns. Teutons. Moors. Austrians. Variuse italian city states such as venice. The Swiss. The lowlands countries such as Netherlands (flanders-wallonia) the normans (arguably the french) The burgundies(same).
LOL TOP TIER ARTILLERY. The serbian barely had artillery compared to the major powers and even then artillery was nearly useless in world war 1 for offensive operations untill the development of the 'advanced barrages' when artillery would cover the infantry and shell areas directly infront of them.
as for number 3.
There are many other famouse hajduks that are not from serbia. Your point is therfore invalid. (but serbs have a nice history of claiming stuff that isn't theirs so I can't blame you. Olympic medals which were won by Yugoslavia are claimed by Serbia today even tho more than HALF of those medals were not won by serbs.)
As for number 4. He is saying that you are an ignorant Dick in a nice way.
You are praising your own country and arguing that it's a GREAT civilisation which had a major impact on europe and as I shall proove down the line how you are downplayed other countries(such as poland which did soooo much more than serbia can ever dream of). You also have no idea about history other than from the serbian propaganda text book.(And im not kidding here guys, they teach them in schools that ☺☺☺☺, seriously it's kinda ☺☺☺☺ed up. I know lot's of serbs who migrated here and it's commong knowledge that their text books are historicly inaccurate and filled with lies, look it up if you will, lol. Stems back to Milosevic time and meetings of 'truth')
AS for number 5. Again with the idiotic nationalisem. Yes husn are important becouse they created the serbs, lol. Are you retarded? Never mind the huge influence they had on europe from the time of their settling all the way to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. You are laughable to say the least.
As for number 6;
LOL. yeah he would have conquered the world if he would have lived. you are funny. He died, end of story. Enough with the WHAT IF'S!
Ok, you don't know anything about poland. You sir are an idiot. And just as I pointed out somewhere above how you downplay other nations achievemnts and POLAND is a prime example here.Well I wouldn't call that a Serbian golden age. To me Serbian golden age was between the end of Balkan wars where we gained our freedom from Ottoman empire up until say ... signing the treaty with Croats and Slovenians after WW1. That's when the seed of misfortune was planted that brought about the recent wars..
Also lol @ "Krajiniks: Replaces Kinghts, Gets a bonus fighting civilizations that aren't your religion" that would cause offense to some and I am pretty sure some idiot would call it racist and make a big fuss about it.
About no2
"Poland, Venice , Portugal, Hungary, Finland, Ancient Macedonia, Papal States, Italy, Bulgaria, Thrace, Scythia, Dacia, Holy Roman Empire"
Poland? Eh.. I honestly don't know anything special about them.Portugal is ok but imo to similar to Spain(as in from games perspective). Hungary is a no if you really need to have them then incorporate it into Austria-Hungary. Finland ? To similar to Denmark. Macedonia? Eh ... sure but who would be leading the Greeks then? Papal States? Just make a Vatican city state or something since you're already introducing religion. Italy? Idk nothing much and they are more famous for Roman empire anyway. Bulgaria? Lower tier than Serbia imo. Thrace ... idk doesn't that kinda fall into Greece? Dont know anything about Scythia or Dacia cant comment. Holy roman empire? We already have both Rome and Byzantium soon why bother with them?
As for "so there is a limited number of civilizations they can put in" .. I .. don't get it why would there be a limit? The limit is their good will nothing else.
First of alll Poland used to be the largest European country known as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%...n_Commonwealth ) (in english) They are known for their Winged Hussars which are known for their prowess on the battlefield even against enemies armed with firearms. They would advance in very loose formation towrads the enemy and compact shortly before the charge to minimize casualties from vollys. They are world renown and though as one of the best horseman in the world, up there with the mongols the samurai and the like.I can write a full essey on how Poland influenced modern day Europe if not the world simply by defeating the ottoman army near vienna never mind all the clashes they had with the moscovites and cossaks(hmm not sure if tatars aswell).
You serbs also like to point out how you 'saved' the Europe from the Ottomans while infact the Polish were the ones who with the Austrian garrison defeated the Ottoman army sieging Vienna while Serbia was occupied by Turkey(ottomans) and even provided soldiers to fight for them. (Janissary, admitedly they were forced to serve but nontheless) And the 'Vojna krajina' (war county in english) was the area used to stop the ottomans on their raid towards central Europe and it was located in Modern day Slovenia and Croatia not Serbia.
At the same time you downplay Bulgarian and Romanian (and greeks)civilisations who faught the turks with much more success than Serbs (You failed to defeat them in Kosovo and as a result fell under their occupation) while Romanian Duke 'Dracula' succesfully repeled repeated assault and even discouriged future attempts with attrocities he commited against the defeated ottoman armies (impaling them on stakes by the thousands which even made one Sultan turn around with his army and return to Turkey after witnesing the 'fields of stakes' for himself).
You can't even put the Polsih and Lithuanian commonwealth beside the Serbian 'empire' (which never existed by the way lol. At least not as a true empire otherwise you can call everything an 'empire') Serbia at it's prime was marginaly larger than it is today, which is by all standars just 'small'. Otherwise I agree with you completly.
Well do start. The assasination started due to Gavrilo Princip who was a memmber of the 'terrorist' group of Mlada Bosna (Young Bosnia) which was a serbian organisation but had NO links to the serbian Goverment.
The assasination was merely an excuse for war which was years in the making. If that would not trigger it something else would. every seriouse historian will tell you the same.
Whie serbia did fight on the Entante side it contributed very little to actually winning the war. As I stated earlier the front near the Isonzo/Soca river(Modern day Slovenia-Italy border) was both strategicly and politicly much much more important (if for nothing else for the proximity to Vienna and Austria in general, It was also the first case of 'blitkrieg' like tacticts being used in WW1).
And you are obviusly the one lacking in any historical education. Sorry.
Lack of representation of this region? Did you ever stop to look at the map of the balkans for a split second? It's small. Very small compared to the I dunno Arabian peninsula or the Indian sub continent. And there is Rome nearby which owned these lands and there is Alexander near by aswell as Persia/Germany.PachaMinnie, we meet again
There are deserving ones but Serbia is deserving too. At the very least, there is lack of representation for this region. I read before on these forums where some people very seriously try to come up with what Civ can possibly be added to take up some particular part of the globe, not looking if they colonized mars in the process to judge that they were "influential." Serbia is at the crossroads of the east and west, of europe and asia, and had to pay a great price for that.
.
Serbia is the crossroads to the east as much as Bolgaria, Romania, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey and I could go on. Again with the downplaying of everyone else. Serbia is awsumm hurr durr. Go look at a text book thats not made published and writen by Seselj.
Hohoho. The ottomans occupied the Serbs for 500 years the ones that were truly fighting the ottomans at that point were the Multi-National Asutrian armies with help from the Poles, Germans and anyone else willing to help defeat the muslim threat at the time. Also don't mention Greece, Bulgaria and Romania for a MUCH MUCH larger contribution to defeating the Ottomans at the time. Also don't mention the 'Vojna Krajina'(War country is what the name actually means) which went trough Slovenia and Croatia and was manned by the austrian army and serb's which fled from the ottomans and were armed and equiped by the austrians. Most of them came from Montenegro.The european civs that you mention that supposedly "deserve more" can only be thankful that the Serbs were strong and able enough and willing enough to tussle down south with the Ottomans while Germans went to coffee houses and "philosophized." I must add, this in fact can also tie in with another special ability for Serbia which relates to the new mechanic of faith. "Guardians of the Gate.
I could go on for days mate. But theres more....
While this is true to a degree it's mostly BS again. Serbian nationalisem all the way right?
While it's true that serbia did win the first few battles the 'preperation' time as you put it was not a problem since the countries were all gearing up for war far before the actual assasination. The Austro-Serbian conflict was at best a side even going on. It was merely a trigger for war. It had no real importance and was treated as such by the entante. The austrian millitary was at the time much worse than most of their neighbours and their army comprised of mainly other nationalities and not Austrians (More like Czechs, Slovenians, Croats, Slovaks, Hungarians and even Serbs from the Vojvodina region (Novi Sad) And was not even prepared fully for war since the Austrian goverment at first thought that Serbia will accept the ultimatum sent to the goverment. all in all Serbia played a MINOR role in WW1.
This is the bigges bull ☺☺☺☺ I heard in years. seriously. I laughed. You should go in to comedy mate! You'd make millions!Since I did this for a school task I can also say that Serbia lost 80% of male population capable of reproduction in WW1. We have the same amount of people living in Serbia before WW1 like UK and now we are barely 10 million.The entire WW1 would have gone completely different way if it wasn't for Serbia at that time.
I was not kidding earlier when I told you guys they actually teach them this in schools. Seriously. Serbian propaganda is stron like that. It's unbelivable really untill you actually see some serbian textbooks (and I've seen a few).
Serbia NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD had a population HALF that of England or France. In NO way shape or form did serbia lose 80% of the population during WW1 (more people died in single battles on the western front than all of the dead in serbia in all the years of ww1). What, are you making up things now? Nevermind having a pop. of 40 million, lol.
World war 1 would hardly turn different in the even serbia would not be involved. It was a minor theater of operations for the entante. Nothing big or special and very little attention was payed to it.
Far larger was the influence of italy who in 1916 declared war on their former allies of Austria-H and Germany.
The austrians merely set up defensive postitions on the macedon front and held tight. That was it.
Go preech your BS to someone else and pick up a History book that was not written by Seselj or some other Nationalistic serbian 'historian'.
Unfortunatley I'm OUT OF TIME to disproove all this BS written by some nationalist serbs on here.
Let me just add that I registered after some time only lurkign the forums for the sole puprouse to participate in this thread since sooooooooooo much bull ☺☺☺☺ is being spewed out it's starting to leak out of my PC, lol.
Also let me just add that the first 'Yugoslavia' Did not include Serbia, but was made from the modern day countries of Slovenia, Croatia and a part of modern day Serbia called 'Vojvodina' it was called the Republic of SHS(Slovenes, Croats and Serbs and later( a couple of months) joined with the Kingdom of Serbia to form the Kingdom of SHS (Serbs Croats and Slovenes).
All in all I wasted a bunch of time for nothing. Enjoy your 'grande' serbia as they like to call it. Claiming all the Yugoslav lands as well as parts of Bulgaria and Greece even tho no serbs ever lived there. Oh they also claim Istanbul(Constantinopel) was a Serbian city untill it was occupied by the ottomans, lol. Seriously they teach them ☺☺☺☺ like that in PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
Never are we letting you in the EU if god is willing. :P
G'day.
Well thanks for keeping it civil and insult the living f*ck out of me in your post. As for your post it's full of lies and bulls*it about my country, especially the last part about us claiming Istanbul and teaching that in schools, and you obviously have some kind of problem with us that you're dragging into this discussion.
So excuse me if I don't bother with reading your hatemail anymore.
You are not Polish.
You all sound the same.
Lamtumirė.
Civil, huh? Seriously you are the one writing bs and there is a word filter so technicly I did not post any profanities.
You are the one here spewing BS on how Serbia is/was a great power and influenced the modern history when infact they did no such thing. Just another balkan nation with a couple of million of population size.
Deal with it.
I'm not Polish, Bulgarian or Austrian or w/e you guys think .I'm not the one making things up about my country and claiming BS facts.
But you are. Did you even read what you wrote before you posted it?
I am not getting into a discussion with you over this. But, just need to clarify something because I can see exactly what you are trying to do.
Nobody said/mentioned/implied you were Bulgarian or Austrian. That is impossible. There is only one place that you can be from.
It always cracked me up how much vitriol discussions about the Balkans tend to generate. Just look at 4chan's /int/. Some people have incredibly strong feelings about this particular region of the world.
Which is why it's probably most likely Civ will leave it well enough alone.
As mentioned this has been discussed multiple times before and there is no need to create a new thread. Further, this has quickly tuned into bickering and arguing so this thread is being closed.
Serbia Discussions:
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...ia#post1536114
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...ia#post1536189
and the front page of the thread for discussing this:
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...tc-quot-Thread
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