Deity requires luckskill?

[fondmetal]

I spent the last 5 hours restarting with the exact same settings:

Spain
Deity
Continents
Standard/Standard/Standard
Quick Combat

Everything else default. I literally could not get a start without being a) completely screwed on base tiles unless I move 5+ turns b) utter lack of relevant strategic resources (e.g. no horse) c) complete lack of ruins/wonders within 50-70 turns (e.g. the whole reason i'm playing as spain) or d) having three hostile-biased civs start on top of me...every...time and getting facerolled by turn 100. Nobody is showing up as friendly so spamming trades for cash is impossible, not to mention no possibility of getting any RAs what so ever going.



In this start I finally got a wonder and dropped a city on top of it, much to Wu's displeasure. She was the last of the three to DoW me though, so......

What the ☺☺☺☺ am I missing here? Is this as expected? Should I just keep spamming restarts until I get a semi-decent one or just drop the difficulty back down to King because I'm terrible?

[Magic_Hotdog]

I dunno, how're you doing with immo?

[fondmetal]

I haven't tried TBH. I played my first game on the easiest setting and bumped it up every win from then on until I got to king. King got to be super easy mode after a few games, so thinking I had it sorted I went straight to deity after watching a few LPs (MadDjinn I'm looking your way). I'm not trying to whine here, just really frustrated after seemingly having this game dialed in on the lower difficulties and all of a sudden hitting a wall on deity, which I know should be doable.

I was hoping the screenshot of my last start would yield some clues as to what I'm doing wrong...

[Magic_Hotdog]

Well, you're setting your cities too far apart which makes them undefensible. You're also claiming a lot of desert for a rather ☺☺☺☺ty wonder. It looks like you've connected none of your luxury resources. You're building a Granary while unhappy. I would say what you're doing wrong is that you tried Deity. There's 2 more difficulty levels that you seem to have overlooked.

Honestly, watching someone else play is not the same as doing it yourself.

[MadDjinn]

I'd say go back and slowly work up the diff. levels. Deity isn't something you drop into after beating King easily. There's a step function of AI bonuses at Immortal/Deity that totally changes the game from, say, an Emperor game.

Realistically, you put your 2nd city too far from your capital. Even if you want that natural wonder, it's likely safer to get it later. With Askia right beside you and at war with you, killing him - or at least forcing peace by surrounding his close city - is more important than the wonders.

It doesn't appear that you've even bothered to improve your land. You really need improved tiles to keep up with the AI on unit spam/etc. Get it done early and the game will go a bit smoother.

You also look to have settled 1 tile from the coast, which is a big mistake. Either settle on the coast, or ensure you're 3 tiles from it (sometimes 2 tiles away is ok if there's no sea resources there).

[civdiss]

When I switched from Immortal to Deity I struggled for a few weeks before I got my first victory, I think the best way is to start with small maps, e.g. pangea with 3 AIs, and then increase the size gradually.

Focus on beating your closest neighbour first rather than building wonders or too many cities. In this way you'll get rid one of the AIs plus you'll get the extra cities (or puppets) needed to compete against the Deity AIs.

You should also consider the fact that the AIs' aggression depends on constantly comparing military power which means they are more aggressive on this level and more likely to attack sooner rather than later.

[Joketa]

Emperor provides a good challenge. I still enjoy playing at this level if I'm not looking to have the game stress me out. I suggest playing at that level for a while and then, as has been suggested, play small maps on Immortal. There's a big jump from Emperor to Immortal. Once you get comfortable with Immortal on all maps and victory conditions, move onto Deity.

[Gooner]

Deity is a massive step up from Immortal let alone King. Try playing on Emperor and Immortal first.

[civdiss]

Deity is a massive step up from Immortal let alone King. Try playing on Emperor and Immortal first.

Yes the jump from Emperor to Immortal is tiny in comparison to the one from Immortal to Deity..not only the AI gets massive production/research/happiness bonuses but they start with an extra settler as well which makes the game much more challenging. Starting with 2 cities instead of 1 is what separates Immortal from Deity imo

[Magic_Hotdog]

Most of the early wonders are also really iffy because the AI starts off an entire bar ahead of you in the tree.

[Gooner]

Yes the jump from Emperor to Immortal is tiny in comparison to the one from Immortal to Deity..not only the AI gets massive production/research/happiness bonuses but they start with an extra settler as well which makes the game much more challenging. Starting with 2 cities instead of 1 is what separates Immortal from Deity imo

It's basically the usual step up in difficulty for every level of difficulty plus the AI gets a 50 turn head start. They get four free techs, an extra settler, two warriors, two workers, one scout, only suffer 60% of the unhappiness you normally suffer (compared to 90% on King), complete buildings in half the time (compared to 85% on King) and a few other bonuses.

If you want a comparison, set up the scores at the side of the page and compare the AI scores on Deity to King. There's a massive difference. King to Deity is probably about the same as Chieftain to King, if not a greater step up.

[VicRatlhead51]

Even working up the difficulty steps I'd say you still need a fair amount of luck. Not being close to aggressive civs, having a variety of luxuries and getting to any goody huts at all sure helps. They start with more map visable and more units, they're going to get the ruins first for the most part. You need to grow fast to catch up and even then things cost less for them. They do still play like petulant 8 year Olds though so we have that going for us.

[Gooner]

One of the biggest things you need when you're playing against the AI on deity is a good starting location in terms of defensive positioning. I usually play on epic speed and they AI declares war and swarms you before you can get your second technology up and running. If you don't have a river to protect you, you're in a lot of trouble early on and it may come down to how much damage the random number generator gives for warriors and spearmen. I've had warriors doing 6-7 points damage to a city with a defensive value of 10 on deity level. A couple of those hits, and it's game over.

[fondmetal]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I went back as suggested and started on Emp. I got checked really hard my first game, but it was my own fault for being too aggressive early on. After beating the next two plays on Emp I ratcheted it up to immortal. That play through was probably the most satisfying win in my entire Civ5 career so far. I literally showed up at the German's capital WHILE the last piece of the space victory was sitting IN THE CAPITAL. I played the next game again on immortal and went for a cultural victory (something I've never tried), but ended up just smashing the two civs with higher scores and taking the time victory. It really does look like if the culture victory isn't locked in by mid-late game, it's a bust.

I'm currently on turn ~275 of a deity game and I *think* I might have it. Japan and France have nukes online, but thankfully are on separate continents and I've been able to bribe them into war against each other (Bye bye Paris). Everyone on my continent is dead or soon to be. I have enough CSs to have grabbed a diplomatic victory if I'd had the foresight to go into the top of the tech tree earlier, but I've got two RAs and two GSs on the way in the next 20 turns so I might just blow my way through it anyway, build the UN, and hope I don't get nuked into the stone age before I get the vote off. Also in regards to diplomacy with the other AI, I had a similar situation early on as to my original post with 2 hostile civs starting right next to me. They DoWed early (obviously), but after I kicked them in the teeth a couple times they actually ended up being usable for RAs after that. For a hundred turns or so I was actually "friendly" (I use the term loosely here) with ALL six of the civs I'd met at that point.

Deity is really no joke. The AI is massively buffed even when compared to the two difficulties below it and they are *so* bloody annoying. France has 17k in the bank and I absolutely know if I don't keep them in a constant state of war with me until the end of the game they'll grab up all the CSs in a single turn. There were multiple times this game I thought all hope was lost only to somehow manage to survive and bumble along with my plan. If I do end up pulling this one off it's going to rank up there with my first immortal victory in terms of sheer entertainment. That said, I think I'd much prefer to play on immortal a few more times though before starting another deity game. Early game is super frustrating, even if it makes an eventual(?) victory that much more satisfying.

Special thanks to Magic Hotdog for pointing out my cities were too far apart for proper defense. That tip has helped me more than anything else on the higher difficulties. Also to MadDjinn who's videos showed me how to abuse the AI's logic like nobody's business. Cheers guys.