Noooooo!!! Don't ask steth to explain himself!Originally Posted by SlickSlicer
XD
Poland/Poland-Lithuania
Portugal/and Brazil
Israel
Assyria or Sumeria or Hittites
Majapahit/Indonesia
Vietnam
Zulu or Zimbabwe
Kongo or Benin
Sioux
Inuit
Noooooo!!! Don't ask steth to explain himself!
XD
Er...not sure how to explain this.
I saw the earlier "charlies in the trees" comment and see your post about the Vietnam war now but...I don't really understand what the Vietnam War has to do with their prospect for inclusion. This kind of justification would be like saying we shouldn't include Germany because of Nazis or Japan because of WW2/Pearl Harbor. If that's seriously the reason for Vietnam's unpopularity, I can't fathom it. However, I doubt that's the reason. I'd like to understand why people don't think Vietnam, a country with thousands of years of history, very interesting conflicts vis-a-vis their enemies, a rapidly improving economy, etc. warrants inclusion. I think there's a lot more to say about 'Nam than many other groups on this list. I don't think many people seriously begrudge Vietnam for the Vietnam War. I find the following reasons for people's displeasure with Vietnam more likely:
-They don't like it.
-They think it's a crappy backwater.
-They think it's the same thing as Siam or China.
-They think it'd be boring gameplay wise or have no possibilities in terms of gameplay.
In which case, I'd have to seriously contend with people on these points. I personally feel that they have a lot more to offer and are a lot more interesting than several of the names on this list. They also have way more name recognition. I don't think many Americans are ignorant on "who" Vietnam is. Compare that to Majapahit, Inuit, Kongo, Benin, Zimbabwe and Hittites. Hell, I'd bet more Americans know what "Vietnam" is than know who the "Sioux" are. I don't think it's much different worldwide either.
Yeah no, I was just saying "funny" because I took your comment out of context, by itself. Like something you would put on a "quoteboard" because it sounds funny on its own. That's all.
A lot of things sound funny when you take them blatantly out of context.
Yeah but that's a pretty good one. Like someone saying "When you get down to it, Hitler was kind of a sweetheart". All of the sarcasm or context in the world wouldn't stop that sentence from sounding funny.
A lot of things sound funny when you take them blatantly out of context.
Even the Viet Cong is scarcely comparable to Hitler. You just had to invoke Godwin's law didn't you?
-They don't like it. They don't like the idea...Each to their own.
-They think it's a crappy backwater. It's an incredibly beautiful country with rich culture.
-They think it's the same thing as Siam or China. The same as China? That's just ignorance. We can be forgiven for thinking that they are the same as Siam, but that's no real excuse either, because just look at Europe...Sweden and Denmark, Germany and Austria...These are similar cultures and no one is complaining - not that we should complain!
-They think it'd be boring gameplay wise or have no possibilities in terms of gameplay. Then we think up some good UXs for them...Which is what you've already done.
I'm not comparing them...nevermind.
The Vietnamese War is more like the American Civil War, except the British didn't come to the South's aide for 10 long years, lose 300,000 men, suffer tons of dissent, drags their allies into losing their lives to, and run like frightened goats leaving thousands of Southerners to their fate at the hands of the North. The North Vietnamese and the South weren't bad, but Americans are just a tad bit angry that Vietnam destroyed their UNDEFEATED streak much like they did for the French.
Need more people voting for the Sioux...Just brainstormed some new stats for them:
Sioux
Leader: Red Cloud.
Capital: Sioux Falls.
UA: Horse Culture. Horses provide culture, and all mounted units gain promotions faster.
UU: Raider. Replaces Lancer. Combat: 24. Movement: 5. Starts with Evasion(50) promotion. Has a higher combat strength and extra movement point.
UU/I: Medicineman. Unpack to use ability, pack to move - can be unpacked outside friendly territory. When unpacked can rapidly heal one unit stationed on UI, and slightly boosts healing of all adjacent units. When packed has 2 movement.
(Unpacked it looks like a tipi, packed it looks like a travois)
Last edited by Hawk; 05-27-2012 at 10:55 PM.
Love it. And I always liked Red Cloud better than Sitting Bull as well (both great men though).
Love this, makes one of the best unique sets I've ever seen. Medicinemen shouldn't be allowed to deploy next to each other though, and units fighting near them could receive a combat bonus, for defending their citizens and non-combatants.
Maybe if the USA and CSA engaged in morally questionable activities, like terrorism, and the British empire was well known for attacks on civilians that wiped out entire villages. Sherman's Savannah campaign is the closest way the ACW compares to the Vietnam War. I don't particularly want to turn this into a Vietnam War discussion, but it really annoys me when people explain only one side of a historical conflict when there's plenty of information regarding both sides. I'm going to leave it there...
Okay, okay you win. Even though both the USA and CSA did engage in morally questionable activities. I was really just comparing the two due to the fact that it was North VS South, they where both torn apart politically, and the North won.
Anyway, I posted this on the +50 Civilizations thread, but they're to busy arguing about Brazil to pay any heed to my idea. I want to push for Cuba, I feel like they would be fun to play as. That being said I won't argue whether they deserve it or not.
Leader: Ernesto Guevara Lynch (Because I want him to be shut up)
Alternative: Fidel Castro
Alt 2: Carlos Manuel de Céspedes
Alt 3: Tomás Estrada Palma
UA: Revolutionary Spirit: All units that previously couldn't defend themselves now can, Units sent to city states get their twice as fast.
UU: guerrilla, replaces World War 2 Infantry: Bonus fighting in allied territory and city state territory. Can venture into territory of Civilization your not at war with and cause havoc.
UI: plantación, replaces plantation: Gives +2 Culture, and grants +2 gold.
Cities: Havana
2nd city: Santiago de Cuba
3rd city: Camagüey
Logo: A red phrygian cap bearing a white star.
Colors: Green and Red. Green standing for the agriculture and Red standing for revolution.
Introduces new city state of Grenada: UA Update: Allying Grenada means losing half of your gunpowder units when attacked.
Thanx, glad to hear that!
I like what you suggested too...Maybe they give military units a combat bonus only when packed, giving another reason to keep them as travois?
I'm not sure that you can really call it a loss. We didn't "win" in that Vietnam fell to the communists, but we also didn't lose anything by withdrawing. In fact, ending the hostilities was probably nothing but a benefit (socially, economically, morally, etc). The only people that really suffered from us leaving were the South Vietnamese (and the North as well, obviously, since everyone suffers under communism).
Perhaps not a loss, but it wasn't a win either, and in most games forfeiting is considered losing. Plus, the Vietnam war was won by the North, we where there to stop the North, we failed, hence it's a loss. Let us just drop the subject, no?
Does no one like my idea for Cuba?
We didn't lose anything, ending the war was a benefit for the country, hence it's not a loss. There, now we can drop the subject (I'm jokingly being as arbitrary as you are)
I did, but I'd make some adjustments:
-The leader should be Fidel Castro instead Che Guevara, really.
-UA: "Units sent to city states get their twice as fast." How many turns is "twice as fast"? What about something like this: "Whenever you send a unit to a CS, a similar unit adhere to its cause, and doubled influence is earned."
-UU: "Can venture into territory of Civilization your not at war with and cause havoc." Didn't like... it seems quite arbitrary as well...
-UI: I believe "plantación" is just the spanish for "plantation" (!)... Also, I'm not sure, but maybe +2 Culture and +2 Gold is too much.
Hrmm... Yes..
When I say units get sent to city states twice as fast, what I mean is this: You know how then you gift a city state a unit of yours and it arrives in ___ this many turns? Well, they get their faster. Thus, if you have a city state ally in need of assistance, your gifted units will arrive faster to deal damage. This is due to the Cubans in Grenada, Bolivia, and the Congo under Che's leadership of course.
The guerrilla unit's ability is stupid, I agree. Any suggestions? Perhaps they can ambush units. A.k.a. disappear from view when stationed in forests/jungles.
Yes, plantación is the Spanish word for plantation, much like how Panzer is the German word for tank.I choose that because Cuba's plantations are quite well known, yet they don't have a special name. +1 Culture +2 Gold? Or maybe, offers a defensive bonus to friendly units stationed there? Any more suggestions?
We nearly have 100 voters. Keep voting people, as the more people vote, the more impressive the results become - and the more likely the devs will take notice. Besides that it's just interesting to see the results!
Dublin, Edimburgh, Viena, etc. were all city states in civilization v that became capitals or cities of the new civs in gods and kings. Portugal should appear (I would also like to see poland/lithuania).
The portuguese empire was brilliant. They shoul create a dlc with the portuguese civilization and the rfc mod:
PORTUGUESE EMPIRE
Leader: D. João II (D. Afonso henriques, D. Dinis, Mario Soares)
Special Ability: NEVER SAILED SEAS (as said in lusiadas) - caravels and religious units are created at double speed.
Unique Unit: Nau (Replaces the Galleaon, more moviment points)
Unique building: Feitoria (replaces bank, luxuty resources provide +1 gold)
go take a look at http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...in-Civ-5/page2
I am in a complete shock. After the coup, by 1975 the Portuguese Empire had all but collapsed.Leader: Mario Soares
Yeah but he worked a lot (together with many other socialists and democrats) to our liberty. I think all the civs should have caractheristics (leader, ub, uu, special ability) that spreads trought their history and is not focused only in the golden age. If there was no Mario Soares or many others, the portuguese would live isolated from the world in a fascist regime. I thhink it 25 april 1974 was one of the most beautiful things that happened in my country. Portugal is not as rich as it was with salazar, but people live happier, and that is what matters right?
Don't take me seriously,I'm only joking.It seems almost impossible to imagine Soares as a leading proponent of Portuguese expansion.
Blasphemy.Portugal is not as rich as it was with salazar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5346744.stm
Celestial Emperor of Brazil
Don't worry . They'll bring other Civs from previous Civ games to Civ5,in one way or another . Instead ranting about it,why not suggest/help to suggest civilizations that have never been represented in Civ series before . Beyond that,I'd like to give a little help on this suggestion
Feitoria fits better for replacing Harbor than Bank,mainly because their use were pretty restrictive to coastal cities . About the UA,I guess that it might be better to give another ability related to city-states and Great Merchants,which would also cover the history of Portugal before the "Discovery age" .
You gotta be kidding me . Even a leader from the dictatorship era(1964-1985) fits better than this suggestion .
As Portugal is leading this poll, I decided to give some construtive ideas. I would like to see something about brazil as these two civs should appear:
IDEA FOR PORTUGUESE EMPIRE,CIVILIZATION V
Leader: John II
Unique Ability: SEAS NEVER BEFORE NAVIGATED – When first to contact with a city state receives twice the regular amount of gold. When reach the renaissance era receive one great merchant.
Unique Unit 1: Carrack (replaces Galleass) - can cross ocean. +2 strenght (?)
Unique Unit 2: Bandeirante (replaces Musketman) - +1 movement point. Can cross forest and hills without these specific terrain costs
Colours: White (1st colour) and indigo (2nd colour) - these were similar colours to the ones in the portuguese kingdom flag
HISTORY
The actual territory of Portugal was occupied in the 1st millennia bC by Celtic tribes and Iberian tribes. In 500 bC iron cultures were seen in the north of Portugal. In the south Phoenicians and Greeks established trade with the natives. In the 1st century bC the Roman Empire invided Iberia founding resistance from the known listians. They annexed the territory and ruled it unitl the invasion of Germanic tribes. Some of these tribes, the Suebi and the Visigoths established organized Christian kingdoms in the territory during the begin of the medieval era. When in 711 aD the Muslim invaded Peninsula Iberia, the Christian people ran to the asturian hills where reconquista started. There were formed the first low medieval era kingdoms in peninsula Iberia.
In 1143 the Portuguese kingdom was found due to the fight of Henry of Portugal and his son, D. Afonso Henriques, who became the first king of Portugal, for the independence of the “Condado Portucalense”. The conquest of the territory that belongs to Portugal nowdays was hard and was made by many kings. The disputes with Castile never ended and in the battle of Aljubarrota the Portuguese together with the English fought against the armies of Castille, getting victorious. Portugal replaced a new blood line to the throne – The House of Avis, and assigned a trait with the englihs that still exists in the present.
The golden age of Portugal started with the beginning of the discoveries when the Portuguese armies conquered Ceuta, and important and wealth city in North Africa. After this conquest, Portuguese sailors, with advanced boat-making and sailing techniques started to explore the globe trough the coast of West Africa, the islands in the Atlantic Ocean, passed to the East African coast, Arabia, India, Southeast Asia, China and Japan getting the first European contact with these civilizations, beginning the “first global era” and establishing new trade rotes to the European. The Portuguese and Spanish discoveries culminated in the Treaty of Tordesillas where the catholic Pope divided the world in two halves: The west for the Spanish and the east for the Portuguese. The Portuguese sailors also discovered Brazil and started to colonize the region as well as the ones in Africa.
From 1580 to 1640 the Portuguese Empire was owned by the Filipes of Spain. Portugal lost many colonies cities and feitorias do the Spanish enemies. In 1640 there was a revolution where the 4th dynasty of Portugal was established: The house of Bragança. The absolutist Portugal explored Brazil as never before becoming very wealthy with the gold and sugar trade. In 1807 Portugal was invaded by Napoleonic armies and the royal court ran to Brazil establishing the capital in Rio de Janeiro. After the French invasions Brazil got independent and the Portuguese colonial policy started to focus on Africa. By the same time revolutions for a liberal monarchy won and the first Portuguese constitution was written. By 1910 the Portuguese territory became a republic.
The dificultues that Portugal lived with the republic led to the emergence of a fascist state ruled by Salazar. The country (Portugal, Azores, Madeira, African colonies and Cities in Asia) lived isolated from the world. In 1961 African colonies revolted and started the Colonial war. Only in 1974, when the fascist regime was put down by socialists and democrats, the colonies got independent.
In present, Portugal is a Republic that invests in developing the territory and has an active play in the diplomatic stage.
CITIES
1. Lisbon (Portuguese capital)
2. Porto (2nd major city of Portugal)
3. Coimbra (Portuguese city that helds the oldest portuguese university)
4. Guimarães (Portuguese Kingdom’s birthplace)
5. Braga (important religious and cultural centre)
6. Évora (major city in the south of portugal)
7. Leiria (important medieval and modern city. Today na industrial and cultural centre)
8. Santarém (important cultural city in medieval ages. Today na important agricultural centre)
10. Aveiro (important industrial and port city)
12. Sintra (royal homeplace by centuries)
13. Faro (major city na Algarve)
14. Sagres (where started the researches for the discoveries)
15. Lagos (important south Portugal city)
16. Bragança (important interior city. Set of the royal line)
17. Porto Santo (Major city in the island of Madeira)
18. Angra do Heroismo (major city in the island of Azores)
19. Vila Real (important city in the north)
20. Beja (important city in alentejo. Agricultural centre)
21. Portalegre (important city in the interior. Industrial centre)
22. Setúbal (Industrial centre focused on the sea resources)
23. Tomar (homeplace for the Knights templar)
24. Guarda (major city in the interior known by the intensive industry)
25. Cova da Eiria (Portuguese religious centre with millions of pilgrims every year)
26. São Paulo (city in Brazil, founded by the Portuguese. Major citu in brasilian expansion by the Portuguese bandeirantes)
27. Rio de Janeiro (city in Brazil, founded by the Portuguese)
28. Luanda
29. Bahía (city in Brazil, founded by the Portuguese)
30. Goa (City in India owned by the portuguese for many centuries, important commercial and militar centre)
31. Macau (City in China owned by the Portuguese for many centuries, impornant commercial centre)
32. Maputo (Capital of Mozambique, ex-Portuguese colony)
33. São-Tomé (Capital os São Tomé e Príncepe, ex-Portuguese colony)
34. Bissau (Capital of Guiné-Bissau, ex-Portuguese colony)
35. Díli (Capital of Timor, ex-Portuguese colony)
I'd like to see portugal and brazil as 2 civs on a new dlc. What do you think?
It's nice to see the Sioux are as popular as the Inuit now...I like them both, although the Sioux first of course!
I probably should have voted the Sioux (because I do want another Native American Civ)... but I just don't want to see the Sioux again. If you had included an option like you did with Brazil/portugal for either other Plains Civs (or other continental US civs) I would have voted for the option. I know I would like to see the Apache/Comanche etc. instead of the Sioux for once especially since they are just as famous.We nearly have 100 voters. Keep voting people, as the more people vote, the more impressive the results become - and the more likely the devs will take notice. Besides that it's just interesting to see the results!
Edit: Used wrong quote
Noted, next time I'll include a / other plains option. I thought the Sioux were the most popular of the plains NAIs, but I should've included the other option nonetheless.
Once one or two of the civs on the list are added I'll update the poll, but considering there's an expansion I think we'll have to wait a little longer than usual, but hopefully we get another double civ DLC, that would be nice!
*Bump*
It's too soon for this poll to fall behind.
You think 94 votes isn't enough? I'm not sure there are any more people that come to this board on a regular basis.
@Paulo112 I like your ideas for Portugal and think they are very deserving of a spot. I think the UA should be 2x the gold regardless of being 1st or not and the UU musketman is basically the minuteman with extra movement, make something more original and I think it'd be great.
94 voters is a decent number on its own right, but I was hoping to get above 100. The more voters, the more weight a poll is likely to carry if the devs get to see it.
Rather speculative imo. I doubt the devs care at all.
We've had this discussion before..
Firstly, I was told by 2K Elizabeth that what goes on in these threads and polls does matter to the devs.
Secondly, we have Polynesia and other civs pointing to either incredible coincidence, or that the devs do take into account these threads and polls.
Thirdly, even if they don't care, we do this for our own entertainment. It's interesting to see what others think, and to see what is popular in this forum.
Fourthly, is the an even more main forum that the devs take more interest in than the 2K Forums? If not here, we don't have much hope anyway.
Perhaps they care, but they have in their minds that a ~100 sample in a forum is far from enough if they want a serious answer.
Maybe 46% of the 94 voters want Portugal in, but what if most of the guys who don't care about these forum (but buy and play the game) just want the Zulu included? Even if we had a good statistical sample size, there are things these polls would never take into account.
But I agree the polls are quite interesting!
Which is why devs never really take internet forums into account, despite the correlation vs causation error people make regarding Polynesia. Until a dev says "Yes we care about the polls", we have to assume that they don't care.
Polling for your own, non-scientific amusement? Fine. Polling to accomplish something? So far, no evidence that it's possible.
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