New enemy idea

[strawhatmoose]

My idea for a new enemy in bioshock infinite.

The enemy is called a spring heeled jack (named after a character in Victorian folklore: spring heeled jack [google the name of you want]). The enemy is a normal enemy except for the legs which have been replaced by wooden/metal spring legs which means they can jump very high and without damaging their body.

The enemy jumps around a lot and he is very acrobatic something like bucking bronco would be amazing on him. But the distinguishing feature about him is that he uses double vigors, one on each hand, usually to make a deadly combination. Maybe a water based vigor and electro shock vigor to create more damaging attacks. And when he dies he drops a bottle for one of the vigors he used, with half of the charges used up.

For looks he wears old fashioned aviator helmets and goggles (like WW1 aviators) and either wears clothes with the American colours or the kind of clothes the vox wear such as leather jackets and faded trousers.

[dirtytreva]

so he's like a spider splicer mixed with a houdini splicer, I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

IG, if you listenin, maybe you should use this idea

[watchman]

Sounds good (to make up for the pathetic/weird Boys of Silence).


Another idea would be Bookers Evil Twin Brother armed just as he is with all the same vigors/nostrums (the AI to make use of them all properly would be a bit hard so expect him to be rather a dullard - with the usual jacked up Hitpoints to compensate).

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:Sounds good (to make up for the pathetic/weird Boys of Silence).

Another idea would be Bookers Evil Twin Brother armed just as he is with all the same vigors/nostrums (the AI to make use of them all properly would be a bit hard so expect him to be rather a dullard - with the usual jacked up Hitpoints to compensate).

A bit like a dark link for booker?

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:Sounds good (to make up for the pathetic/weird Boys of Silence).

Another idea would be Bookers Evil Twin Brother armed just as he is with all the same vigors/nostrums (the AI to make use of them all properly would be a bit hard so expect him to be rather a dullard - with the usual jacked up Hitpoints to compensate).

Bus of silence are only that popular because of their creepy look and people wondering what is under that mask, as they said in the trailer. Other than that I would say they are fancy looking mega microphones.

[strawhatmoose]

I'll try to get some of my art of the new enemy soon. Can't upload straight from my phone.

[watchman]

I can see this one running at the player and doing a flip over the players head to land behind.

Various other acrobatics like that would make the spidersplicers look lethargic by comparison.

[strawhatmoose]

Double post sorry my phone messed up

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:I can see this one running at the player and doing a flip over the players head to land behind.

Various other acrobatics like that would make the spidersplicers look lethargic by comparison.

Yeah that's the kind of stuff I was thinking of. As soon as you get a couple shots at it or it does it's double whammy attack on you then it'll jump up and do a flip and get behind you. The easiest way to beat them would be to quickly and silently come from behind and kill it or use bucking bronco.

[watchman]

Bouncing around like a jack rabbit....


Though it should probably stop moving if ITS going to fire at you (tho maybe all it really needs to do is kick you in the head as it goes by.)


Hmm all kinds of acrobatics - bouncing off walls might make for a pretty difficult target

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:Bouncing around like a jack rabbit....

Though it should probably stop moving if ITS going to fire at you (tho maybe all it really needs to do is kick you in the head as it goes by.)

Hmm all kinds of acrobatics - bouncing off walls might make for a pretty difficult target

And that's where bucking bronco comes in handy. Stops the enemy completely and their main advantage is gone.

[watchman]

strawhatmoose said:

watchman said:Bouncing around like a jack rabbit....

Though it should probably stop moving if ITS going to fire at you (tho maybe all it really needs to do is kick you in the head as it goes by.)

Hmm all kinds of acrobatics - bouncing off walls might make for a pretty difficult target

And that's where bucking bronco comes in handy. Stops the enemy completely and their main advantage is gone.

But with limited use (doses) so that you have do decide what you are going to use it on ?


Hope they dont load you up with 'complimentary' buffs just before you need them for certain enemy types (and randomize them so you dont know "exactly what to do" next time on either the game replay or the inevitable 'save - die- reload' sequence.

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:

strawhatmoose said:

watchman said:Bouncing around like a jack rabbit....

Though it should probably stop moving if ITS going to fire at you (tho maybe all it really needs to do is kick you in the head as it goes by.)

Hmm all kinds of acrobatics - bouncing off walls might make for a pretty difficult target

And that's where bucking bronco comes in handy. Stops the enemy completely and their main advantage is gone.

But with limited use (doses) so that you have do decide what you are going to use it on ?

Hope they dont load you up with 'complimentary' buffs just before you need them for certain enemy types (and randomize them so you dont know "exactly what to do" next time on either the game replay or the inevitable 'save - die- reload' sequence.

Well if they were in the game these enemies would drop half used vigor bottles so there could be a chance of refilling your charges. Yeah I prefer to improvise with something new and unexpected than to do something that you know how to do. Like what if there were unstable evolutions to the vigors like one can be making the electro bolt jump to other enemies and the other evolution would be like a massive electro bolt that deals more damage an stuns longer but to a single enemy. For bucking bronco it could be slamming the levitated people on the ground which knocks hem out for a few seconds or carrying a few enemies away into the clouds (like one or two put of five enemies).

[watchman]

strawhatmoose said:

Well if they were in the game these enemies would drop half used vigor bottles so there could be a chance of refilling your charges. Yeah I prefer to improvise with something new and unexpected than to do something that you know how to do. Like what if there were unstable evolutions to the vigors like one can be making the electro bolt jump to other enemies and the other evolution would be like a massive electro bolt that deals more damage an stuns longer but to a single enemy. For bucking bronco it could be slamming the levitated people on the ground which knocks hem out for a few seconds or carrying a few enemies away into the clouds (like one or two put of five enemies).

Loot vigors/nostrums (with varying counts of doses and a few empty too) would be logical and that way you (player) might find more varied/random ones (at least once in a while).


The question would be would the opponents (enemies ... do we ever have any allies in this game ????....) all be frequently using all the different nostrums/vigors themselves and thus have to have their scripted behaviors/AI know how to use them properly (static choreographing them could be done but that usually leads to the scene playing the same way every time).


Throw in some 'fake' nostrum/vigors (with odd names) for a little variety -- the era was rife with charlatans selling 'patent medicines' that usually were little more than high octane alcohol and a few unsavory components.

[strawhatmoose]

watchman said:

strawhatmoose said:

Well if they were in the game these enemies would drop half used vigor bottles so there could be a chance of refilling your charges. Yeah I prefer to improvise with something new and unexpected than to do something that you know how to do. Like what if there were unstable evolutions to the vigors like one can be making the electro bolt jump to other enemies and the other evolution would be like a massive electro bolt that deals more damage an stuns longer but to a single enemy. For bucking bronco it could be slamming the levitated people on the ground which knocks hem out for a few seconds or carrying a few enemies away into the clouds (like one or two put of five enemies).

Loot vigors/nostrums (with varying counts of doses and a few empty too) would be logical and that way you (player) might find more varied/random ones (at least once in a while).

The question would be would the opponents (enemies ... do we ever have any allies in this game ????....) all be frequently using all the different nostrums/vigors themselves and thus have to have their scripted behaviors/AI know how to use them properly (static choreographing them could be done but that usually leads to the scene playing the same way every time).

Throw in some 'fake' nostrum/vigors (with odd names) for a little variety -- the era was rife with charlatans selling 'patent medicines' that usually were little more than high octane alcohol and a few unsavory components.

Well I think irrational can make analogue AIs who don't jut do one or two things, but can be varied. Like say the vox migt use guerilla tactics and play dirty, and within them there will be different vigor users. The founders might attack head on and try to overwhelm you with guns and vigors. But within that group the enies would play slightly differently such as some might attack head on and others may also flank.

[watchman]

strawhatmoose said:

Well I think irrational can make analogue AIs who don't jut do one or two things, but can be varied. Like say the vox migt use guerilla tactics and play dirty, and within them there will be different vigor users. The founders might attack head on and try to overwhelm you with guns and vigors. But within that group the enies would play slightly differently such as some might attack head on and others may also flank.

I dont know all the vigors they've shown (and how many more they might not have yet) but say the Splicers (er...) 'enemies' can have/use half of them (and if they have them as loot then they might as well be using them). They have to then make use of them appropriately (usually in conjunction with their weapons (how many varieties of weapons teh 'enemies' will have ?) they have or props/scenic features present. That along with tactics that the magic potions modify or enable.


The logic still might be too complex to 'generalize' and that likely leads to mininizing the flavors because of all that custom code for each combination (potion + enemy flavor) . Some might just be 'buffed' straight attacks or defensive bonus and can be lumped together without any extra logic needed. Others are specialized to exact terrain/prop details and if done in place of blasting away with whatever weapon the enemy has the logic might be shared across many enemy types( ex- if a splicer had a 'handgrenade' any one of the splicer types could have thrown it at you or around a corner - ignoring it being out of character for some). If the enemy has 'allies' that can interfere or get in the way (worse if they use different vigore/nostrum effects simultaneously), the behavior AI becomes more specialized (group coordination between the 'enemies' ).


I would hope that we would get more than the few BS 'special' splicer types (a bit or alot more variation).


Also you dont want to be flooded constantly/endlessly with enemies special 'potion' attacks, so they should be somewhat 'rare'.

[strawhatmoose]

Okay here is my drawing for the enemy idea

[laforzadimente]

Through all of this I was envisioning these curvy plastic prosthetic legs.




Although now they have ones that strap on to fully functional legs. They help you run faster and jump higher. I just spent the last 15 minutes looking but couldn't find anything on the discovery channel special I watched on bionic advancements. They had hydraulic exoskeletons etc, but as far as these specific legs went, they let the user run at least twice as fast and jump over at least a 5 foot fence in one motion.

[watchman]

Okay here is my drawing for the enemy idea

When I was visualizing what you described I saw longer lower legs (like a rabbits or cats) with a longer heel to ball-of-foot made of strap spring steel (so would have a much greater bowing action of the spring as well as look more distinctive. The foot could probably be the usual true section of a shoe.

Your form you would not want pants covering the springs (to make them obvious) and I might add a big coil (compression) spring linking the lower and upper leg (at the back) that would increase the springing ability even further - some way that it normally isnt used for walking but can be triggered (like the lower leg one you have) to give a huge push ( jump upto a next story or two or a long ballistic (βάλλειν) long-jump)

[watchman]

Through all of this I was envisioning these curvy plastic prosthetic legs.




Although now they have ones that strap on to fully functional legs. They help you run faster and jump higher. I just spent the last 15 minutes looking but couldn't find anything on the discovery channel special I watched on bionic advancements. They had hydraulic exoskeletons etc, but as far as these specific legs went, they let the user run at least twice as fast and jump over at least a 5 foot fence in one motion.

Yeah thats closer to what I visualized (though less fancy curves), but triggered coil springs would be usable from a dead stop (the 'suprise' gimmick).

Actually 'run at least twice as fast' isnt the case - longer stride means you spend more power lifting the body up and down rather than moving forward and many sprinters arent that tall and have more rapid strides so that they have more cumulative contact with the ground to impart forward motion. Wont matter here as sprinter isnt desired (in these games they dont want things to move too fast...)

[strawhatmoose]

I'll make some improvements to the legs they were just done basic designs I thought of. And I was thinking of those prosthetic legs but I didn't know how to make them look steampunk.

[watchman]

I'll make some improvements to the legs they were just done basic designs I thought of. And I was thinking of those prosthetic legs but I didn't know how to make them look steampunk.

Steampunk is more just pretty brasswork, the springs coil or strap(leaf springs) would still be functional (steampunky would probably elaborate into pistons and compressed air (tanks) ----- which might be the 'deluxe' version of the same character.

[strawhatmoose]

Ok I have some new leg ideas. Also I thought about the idea of a deluxe (or elite) version of the spring heeled jack. The normal one can have wooden legs that are vulnerable to incinerate vigor and will burn and crumble either after a certain amount of time has elapsed or the enemy has taken too many jumps and put on too much strain for the legs to handle. This would render the enemies practically immobile and useless (though still able to shoot vigors).The elite's legs would be made from metal and will not burn away and will only break after a certain amount of time has passed AND a certain number of jumps are taken.

[watchman]

The pictures were pretty close for the simple springy (bunny hopping) type of opponent. Coil spings/pistons for big jumps more single power jumping type behavior (take time to reset). Bunny could still bounce off of walls and jump high enough over you to land behind you. (Sander Cohen could have used this thing)

Vision of 1 leg broken (even for the deluxe one - just took more damage) and it sproinging off in weird directions (heh, over the side to plunge to its death). Might happen randomly when used - (sound effect of a garage door spring breaking THONNNNGG) maybe the leg falling off ...

Both legs broken it thrashing on the ground (or trying to crawl away). Not too elaborate as these things life-span in these games arent too long anyway (maybe have some interesting monologue quips for the 'broken' circumstances. )

Such details would have to be consistant with what they will do for other 'opponents' in the game..