Why is Irrational able to get it right, while other devs get it wrong?

[Unsung Hero]

Bioshock stands high on a pedestal to me as to what my ideal video game should be. Mysterious, moody, atmospheric, subtle creepiness, interesting characters, fun mechanics, interesting protagonist, interesting antagonist, the audio diaries, just being plain old fun. The list can go on and on.


When I look at Bioshock from a micro level, it's nothing really special. It's a linear, corridor shooter that really revolves around the gimmick of plasmids, and tonics. What makes Bioshock click is the narrative, the atmosphere, the characters, the enemies, etc. Real basic things if you ask me.


Irrational isn't really a big name studio. They're not the Rockstar, or the Epic of the gaming world just yet. But Bioshock still went on to sell 4 million units, which proves that gamers appreciate good narrative, and a good atmosphere.


My question is why can't other developers do this? What's the trick that has Irrational a cut above the rest? Are other developers just that lazy to write good narratives, or is Ken Levine really that good of a writer? I'm sure if developers really wanted to create a nice, and moody atmosphere they could. Yet, in most games it's plain, and cold. Is it really that difficult to make a moody atmosphere like the one found in rapture?


Why is Irrational getting it on a narrative front, on a character front, on a level design front, on a atmospheric front, yet to many developers can't even come close to irrationals efforts?

[boltonhawser]

Because Ken Levine studied screenwriting, but Hollywood denied him so he went to videogaming. Good for us, bad for Hollywood. Hehe, and look at Hollywood now, nearly every producer is having wet dreams over the narrative potential of having a Bioshock film in their hands and Ken's just giving them the biggest "☺☺☺☺ You" Hollywood's ever received.

[nonlethal]

Well, Bioshock was a game that didnt follow in the footsteps of other games like Call of Duty and Halo series and etc. When you branch off from a certain "flow" of gameplay you are taking a risk. You either fail or make a huge success off of the change. Irrational Games decided to take that risk and got very successful off of it, while huge big companies like Bungie,Treyarch, and Infinity Ward stick to the same stuff over and over again because what they are good at. Now the latest installments of Call of duty and Bungie didnt do so well becasue they started to stray out of their comfort zone and make a change to there game and it didnt turn out too well. What happens if a company makes a hit off a certain game? they start making mroe games like it to get more money. But look what happened to Halo, they said they were gunna stop with Master Chiefs story at 3, but after Halo:Reach didnt do so good they are now making a Halo 4,5, and 6 as announced at E3. Same thing with movies. People love fresh things, thus the people who complained about "why is Bioshock infinite in the sky!!!!" and got all mad about it dont underrstand how irrational games needs to mix things up a bit to keep people interested. Ever notice how not so famous game companys games are more fun and enjoyable then rich companies? Because the smaller companies have fresher ideas and etc. Think along the lines of Frictional Games. Some of you may not of even heard of them before yet they have created 2 of the scariest games ever made. I laugh when peopel say "fear" is scary and etc. Go play Frictional Games games like "Penumbra or Amnesia:The Dark Decent. you dont know what horror is until u play those games. Hell they sell there games for $20 and they are far mroe enjoyable then any games a big and rich game company can create. (accept u irrational, you guys and Frictional Games are my favorite game companies


"Im looking for the school of magic"-Twinsen

[roguewriter]

In truth, I think it has to do with Ken and company mastering the age old art of "Jack of all trades." In essence, Ken and IG strive to make games which cater to almost every facet of gamer. It's a shooter, but not an over-charged, senseless, testosterone free for all. There are moment when even the most experienced FPS gamer is forced to think once the game is, say, ramped up above easy difficulty settings.


Moving on from there, it's also an RPG, creating a complex narrative filled with characters who are often not cut from standard or cliche molds. In Bioshock, one could argue that, though guilty of crimes, Andrew Ryan was no villain. At least, not in the strictest sense of the word. Even Atlas/Fontaine, at least at one time, was merely a man playing an angle, helping with one hand while destroying with the other. Though painted as something of a second hero, Tenenbaum could be called anything but for her actions. Stepping back, Systemshock 2's Shodan was, in a strange way, valid in her viewpoints.


Essentially, what I'm saying here is that Ken and his team don't insult the intelligence of their players by giving them a cookie-cutter world. They respect the competence of the gamer community while trying to expand the horizons of those who could benefit from it. However, for those simply looking for a fun shooter, one can find that just as well. Sometimes, developers fight so hard to create that "Push a button and something cool happens," game that something deeper is lost, and their game becomes so much button mashing fare. With the 'shock' series, we always know we're going to get something with far more depth.

[Durandan]

And the best part is they haven't even hit their stride yet. Bioshock underwent a mountain of revisions and alterations while they figured out what they wanted. They learned from the experience and have been given PLENTY of time to surpass themselves. They avoided all the pitfalls that so often plague good development teams. They weren't rushed into releasing a shoddy product or become victims of their own acclaim. Basically, it would be a huge disappointment if Infinite didn't totally blow their first game away.

[Unsung Hero]

durandan said:And the best part is they haven't even hit their stride yet. Bioshock underwent a mountain of revisions and alterations while they figured out what they wanted. They learned from the experience and have been given PLENTY of time to surpass themselves. They avoided all the pitfalls that so often plague good development teams. They weren't rushed into releasing a shoddy product or become victims of their own acclaim. Basically, it would be a huge disappointment if Infinite didn't totally blow their first game away.

Well to be honest, Bioshock was a bit of a step down compared to System Shock 2. But overall, Bioshock was a really great game. Infinite I expect the same. I expect a great narrative, with great characters, with a great background story. The only way I can see Irrational bettering themselves is if they don't rush the last few levels, and don't have you fighting a generic mutant as the final boss.

[laforzadimente]

"My question is why can't other developers do this?" Some do.

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

moving to Irrational discussion, the forum where this topic belongs, as it has nothing to do with Bioshock Infinite.

[forsaken82]

thelastguardian said:

Well to be honest, Bioshock was a bit of a step down compared to System Shock 2.

Quite amazing how this is forgotten or completely ignored. Don't get me wrong... Bioshock was fantastic.. one of my favorite games of the generation, however it comes off more like a "shock" lite in the sense that the game mechanics are more streamlined in favor of the same audience that loves the faster paced games of big sellers like Halo 3 and CoD4. Granted, Bioshock set itself apart with its inclusion of the RPG lite mechanics and of course its fantastic art and atmosphere, but had they not taken the more traditional shooter approach to Bioshock and went with the more hardcore, slower paced RPG design of System Shock 2, I am positive the game wouldn't have been nearly as successful. I think IG knew that they were taking a risk with the game, but at the same time they also knew where to draw the line. One of the best traits a studio could have is the ability to be original, while simultanesouly adapting to your demographics, and I think IG nailed it with Bioshock.

[Durandan]

I haven't finished SS2 yet, so I can't comment with the proper authority but I have heard this claim several times before. I am sure there were some things from SS2 they could have better incorporated into the Bioshock worlds, but I will say that one thing I am not partial to is degrading weapons. I know having failures adds to the realism and tension, but it can get annoying pretty darn quickly. I'll need to spend more time with it before I can comment further.

[ragingmudcrab]

System Shock 2 was phenomenal, but I still prefer BioShock. Not gonna lie, the core gameplay experience of SS2 was better, but narrative-wise... It's hard to compete with BioShock. But I'm also naturally partial to the setting, themes and philosophies of BioShock, although I do still love me some cyber-punk.

[Durandan]

Truly, cyber-punk is under-appreciated.

[F.Fontaine]

Ah wish I could play system shock 2 it became one of my top 3 games that I really wanna play.

[sunjammer]

I think Shock had better individual fates. Bioshock was very much the story of jack, Fontaine, Tenenbaum and Ryan. Everyone else were fodder. In Shock the cast felt much bigger and more meaningful. Then again that might just be nostalgia; I love Shock to the moon and back, and not just for its amazing Co-op which too few people got to experience..


I think Irrational get it right because they are coor dudes and dudettes. That's my Grand Theory.

[Juan29.Zapata]

Irrational is not the only studio with great ability to do storytelling; Naughty Dog, Rocksteady and Valve are some of the most talented studios that have the ability to tell a story right, and know how to present the gameplay.

boltonhawser said:Hehe, and look at Hollywood now, nearly every producer is having wet dreams over the narrative potential of having a Bioshock film in their hands and Ken's just giving them the biggest "☺☺☺☺ You" Hollywood's ever received.

Quite in the contrary, Ken would love to have the game being converted into a game. But man, Hollywood doesn't deserve to have Bioshock.

[booker13]

I think a film would be good but wouldn't do the name justice at all

[Durandan]

I'd be all for a film if it Ken Levine had direct oversight and you gave it to a director who could get money and would respect the vision. I'm not sure who'd be good for that though. Maybe Abrams or Whedon? Clearly, the people at IG are able to remain independent from too much corporate oversight, and that has to be pivotal.

[zeyphon]

They have a few well thought-out IP's and they take a good amount of time to develop new titles. Another devloper than does this(even more so actually) is Blizzard which also comes out with amazing games and Bioware(though less so lately, maybe because EA has been pressuring them to release titles faster than planned).

[heyimwyatt]

thelastguardian said:


My question is why can't other developers do this?

I would say a lot of developers make great games. Look at Bethesda studios with Fallout; there is a huge expansive world, with great story telling and most importantly addictive fun game-play.


Then look at Team Bondi and Rockstar with LA Noire. They took a lot of risks with that game and succeeded in my opinion.


And do not overlook the indie developers out there with games like Braid, Limbo, Flower.


There are a lot of great games being made by developers willing to take big risks.

[mpress24]

I truly think it all boils down to Ken Levine's extraordinary imagination, and it does not hurt that he has surrounded himself with a development team that is extremely talented, and that can help realize his vision. It does not hurt that he has been given free reign creativity wise, and his willingness to take risks and not compromise his vision to appease others.

[vsharres]

I'am amazed that nobody in this topic even mentioned Valve.For me they are the only developer in the same level of awesomeness as Irrational.Yes, other developers creates allot of fun games, such as Blizzard and Bioware, but Valve and Irrational are the only ones that made feel the same feeling as reading a good book,or seeing a good movie.

[borrego]

There's a certain level of substantial storytelling that is typically missed in gaming, but Irrational definitely has locked down. They get it right because of their attention to every detail about the environment, story, and gameplay.


It will be very interesting to see how evolved Irrational will be ten years from now. They're already blowing it out of the park for delivering a highly substantial gaming experience, and they can only become better and better at what they do!

[gameschen]

Although Fleener is usually an equally impressive move catcher that can beat safeguarding each below plus compared to male insurance, as well as now doesn????t have a DUI upon his / her history. Pursuing Charles???? detain, it would be a great annoyed when he were used baseball caps prior to Fleener arrive The spring.