Elizabeth

[Invader]

She's way too cliche, with the perfect body, the enourmous breasts and the cleavage. What I liked about earlier BioShock games was that people were normal, belevable looking people. Now, I disapprove of Elizabeth. Not the character as a whole, but the looks of her. Like I said, she's over-cliche. She looks like ever other woman in every other video game. BioShock avoided ALL of those cliches, one and two. If you were one of the lucky few-ish to ge the Special Edition BioShock 2, look at page 52 of the Deco Devolution artbook and read the comments. They avoided this with a passion. Honestly, I hope the way you made her look was just for marketing purposes. Make her look like a normal young woman, and really cut down on the cleavage, and she will look... real, and not like some sort of UBERPERFECTFANTASYBABBBE. You guys have two more years, so I hope it's just an early concept.

[Trie215]

I have to disagree, and of course only in a matter of opinion, but I LOVE Elizabeth. I wouldn't say she's "Superbabe", but she certainly is more curvy and buxom than any other Bioshock character. Also, she would be small waisted and appear big breasted due to her corset, which is what she's wearing in the trailer. She also looks different in the in-game screen shot so who knows who our Elizabeth will be.


And who says she has to look "real"? It's a choice of style. She doesn't look like a pornstar, and she doesn't look like Olive Oil either (Popeye's gal). Besides, cliche is the new original.

[Nyokou]

http://www.ugo.com/games/was-bioshoc...ck-game?page=2


[Adding "Deep Cleavage"]


There's also another article out there talking about the change of character design (and I think it's K. Levine) basically talking about the characters looking more stylized I guess rather than "normal". I don't like the idea either but then again, there are girls that look like Elizabeth. The only thing I have to disagree about her design is the hair...


Might as well re-post this...

Elizabeth's short hairstyle has kind of bothered me since I first watched the trailer. She kind of looks like Louise Brooks or a Baby Jane splicer which, to me, would place her almost 2 decades ahead. I really don't like it. Part of the reasons I loved the original Bioshock was because of its tie to real-world fashion/appearances. Therefore, I feel like Elizabeth doesn't really fit into this time period at all. She looks like a horrible fusion of 1920s/1930s hair and early 1900s fashion.


Perhaps there's even a reason for her hairstyle (I really hope there is) but it would've looked better longer or cut differently and even styled up extravagantly as was common in those days with hair ornaments/pieces or even a hat!


Any thoughts? Am I the only one bothered by this?

[iglegacy_rapture]

Two things I don't like about her, the breast's and her name. Elizabeth seems like such a bland name for a character of her magnitude, and well the boobs are a bit much.

[IGlegacy_Felonious]

No one knows really anything about Elizabeth's character to make judgements on how she is suppose to look. Obviously Dr Lamb would look silly the way Elizabeth is, because her character would not fit that look. I just think you need to find out what Elizabeth's background and character is before you make statements that her look is over-cliched. She's been imprisoned for 13 years, someone has hired you to go get her, perhaps she is a daughter/wife of a robber baron. I really have no idea about hair styles, but like I said its too early too judge either way.

[Rybow73]

Christ. I could care less if she looks good. However, I'd rather walk around in the game with character that looks like her instead of some hideous beast-woman from planet Uglifest.


I think people need to calm down about her looks. If everyone wants everyone to look sub-par, video games would have boring character models. It'd be kind of weird to save some important girl that looks like a high-school lunch lady.


It's not like she's sporting a double-double Triple Whopper bra-size like Lara Croft. Girls can be in video games with regular size breasts AND a good personality/character in the game.


People that are complaining about her breasts are thinking about her breasts too much. How 'bout them freckles that stand out as well? "Dammit! Now she looks like the Wendy's girl...with black hair! That's in-game advertising! She must look like Roseanne, because that show isn't on at a good time anymore, and they only show reruns!"


Leave Elizabeth to the designers. Maybe she'll turn out to be the Wicked Witch of Columbia at the end as a surprise twist.

[iglegacy_buddygz]

A bunch of gaming nerds complaining that a female lead looks too good.

What?

Although I do agree, you can look good with a little less fantasy and perfection.

But if you look at the game pictures, she looks a lot less fantasique than the trailer Elizabeth.

So don't worry....

[sh0dan]

invader said:

<h2 class="topictitle">Elizabeth</h2>

She's way too cliche, with the perfect body, the enourmous breasts and the cleavage. What I liked about earlier BioShock games was that people were normal, belevable looking people. Now, I disapprove of Elizabeth. Not the character as a whole, but the looks of her. Like I said, she's over-cliche. She looks like ever other woman in every other video game. BioShock avoided ALL of those cliches, one and two. If you were one of the lucky few-ish to ge the Special Edition BioShock 2, look at page 52 of the Deco Devolution artbook and read the comments. They avoided this with a passion. Honestly, I hope the way you made her look was just for marketing purposes. Make her look like a normal young woman, and really cut down on the cleavage, and she will look... real, and not like some sort of UBERPERFECTFANTASYBABBBE. You guys have two more years, so I hope it's just an early concept.

You are judging her just on her looks?


You don’t even know the poor girl yet.

[benporter]

You know why they avoided female cliches with a passion in BioShock 2?


Because they were all mutants.

[iglegacy_rapture]

I see a little girl that is exposing her cleavage in a time where women were conservative. Sure it's a video game, set in a fictional flying city, but visually she doesn't look like she belongs in that time period.


For me it's not that she looks too good, it's that she doesn't look right. But what do I know, nothing. Perhaps when more is revealed she'll fit right in.

[Jub8Jub]

@rapture I agree with you. It seems like you can see her walking down the street if you look out you window.

[Trie215]

I don't know...

It wasn't as conservative a time as you may think. Yes, more conservative than today, but she is wearing a corset, which was meant to slim the waist line and raise the breasts. Even small breasted women would appear to be more buxom just by the nature of the garment, as the design will show you below. (It's also pretty close to what Liz is wearing in the trailer)





It was the style around 1912 to wear these corsets. If you look at the picture below, it shows a woman of the era wearing a corset. The photo is a little white washed, but if there was dynamic lighting, you better believe she'd be sporting a mighty cleavage.





If you were a stylish, attractive young woman, like Elizabeth, in 1912, you would most likely be wearing these type of corsets which would give her the appearance she has. Also, the waist coat and dress look appropriate to the time as well. I do think her hair maybe a bit moddish for 1912. It would probably be more extravagant and pinned up, or she'd be wearing a hat. Not quite sure on that.

[killer7ita]

She remember me, Catherine Zeta Jones (not so young) in Chicago:

[iglegacy_dannysal]

Since when is cleavage ever a bad thing (cliche or not)? Come on guys!!

[alteredego]

I think that people are over reacting. Look at Alyx Vance from Half Life. She looks hot, but she felt like a real person, not someone who always needed saving. (Looking at you, Princess Peach)

[Trie215]

alteredego said:(Looking at you, Princess Peach)

And she's not even that hot

[iglegacy_rapture]

drhhholmes said:

I don't know...

It wasn't as conservative a time as you may think. Yes, more conservative than today, but she is wearing a corset, which was meant to slim the waist line and raise the breasts. Even small breasted women would appear to be more buxom just by the nature of the garment, as the design will show you below. (It's also pretty close to what Liz is wearing in the trailer)

http://www.corsetsandcrinolines.com/...rontcorset.jpg


It was the style around 1912 to wear these corsets. If you look at the picture below, it shows a woman of the era wearing a corset. The photo is a little white washed, but if there was dynamic lighting, you better believe she'd be sporting a mighty cleavage.


http://www.bluerosecorsetry.com/imag...ench_belle.jpg


If you were a stylish, attractive young woman, like Elizabeth, in 1912, you would most likely be wearing these type of corsets which would give her the appearance she has. Also, the waist coat and dress look appropriate to the time as well. I do think her hair maybe a bit moddish for 1912. It would probably be more extravagant and pinned up, or she'd be wearing a hat. Not quite sure on that.

The woman you pictured must of been a floozy... Here's what I remember from history.





But who wants a character dressed like that ^. After seeing the Catherine Zeta Jones picture the hair really needs to go.

[isoph0451]

Good God. Who cares? The game is two years away! I thought she looked cool, and didn't even think about this. Don't judge until you have seen her in gameplay footage. She might turn out to be a better character than Ryan (which would be hard) so you never know! Just...gah worry about why its coming out in two years and not now!

I feel like people are nitpicking the hell out of this game. Don't. Yeah its different than Rapture, but it's NEW, and it has more than a ton of potential.

Oh, and she doesn't look like an UBER perfect babe. She can be attractive, she is a woman.

And, you can't compare her to Rapture's women, they were probably all attractive before they became ugly, and seeing as Bioshock only shows ugly, spliced up morons (besides the good looking Andrew Ryan, of course ) you can't compare her to any characters of those games.

[lukecz]

Art imitates reality in this case as she looks very much like somebody I know (no, not giving out her phone number). The other characters we saw during demo@GamesCom were "normal" human beings just like in Bioshock.

[Trie215]

I understand it was a more conservative time, but reading standard history books and the like, you will read of the more conservative people. I cant say for sure as I wasn't there, but I'm sure there was a more "colorful" group of unsung citizens whose standards weren't exactly the most christian.


I mean the world still considers America to be very conservative, and if you were to read a textbook about it, it would appear that way. But in reality, there are many areas of American culture that are not conservative. It's all about what information we have access to.

[Muskel]

I did not think her breasts were enormous compared to the norm these days. Huge breasts are cliche. You can even use motion controls to shake them around these days.


Beauty is only skin deep. This may be thier plan. Shes beautiful... you really start to love her...and then... she's really the devil. What a twist that would be. I'm not ruling it out.

[isoph0451]

Lol good theory. I kinda hope that she stays good though. Cause just from the concept of her character I really like her.


And I agree with you her breasts didn't even garner my attention, until I read this post. And now after actually looking, they aren't big. At all.

[ShockingBiology]

My two cents: her breasts aren't gratuitous, nor are they even really that large. The trailer just showcases them because she is leaning over the balcony and reaching for Booker, who is suspended slightly below her. Any outfit that was even moderately revealing would show some boobage in such a situation. The other screen shots I've seen also seem perfectly believable and not at all exploitative or salacious.

[sh0dan]

The game is fiction, not history. Like everything else in the world she is exaggerated. She would actually look “out of place” if she was perfectly accurate to history, when the rest of Columbia is exaggerated.


The history is only the inspiration, lets try not to forget that. I like her a lot, she looks vulnerable, mysteriously powerful and hot all at the same time. In my book that is a good thing. Real history be damned.

[isoph0451]

Amen sh0dan!

[FtRapture]

I think the time frame my prove irrelevant as it is in Columbia and as such may not necessarily follow the conventions of life on the land. I don't think she looks out of reason considering the nature of the game.

[assassin_snyper]

im sure however they choose to make her, the game is going to be awsome, and nobody is going to not buy it just becuase of the way she looks.

[benporter]

I think a lot of people here don't understand the physics of the corset. Even the push-up bra, for that matter.

[robot264]

i wasn't even paying attention to her face haha.

[cookiekiller6]

It's for Booker guys, if they change her appearance, Booker isn't gonna be happy.

[Juan29.Zapata]

cookiekiller6 said:

It's for Booker guys, if they change her appearance, Booker isn't gonna be happy.

She's still quite young, she's less than 20 years old if I remember well.


Anyway, I don't really see what's wrong with Elizabeth, but we really have not seen her in motion, so we can judge her better before complaining about her.

[Nintendoll]

I don't think she's oversexed, I just think her overall styling seems a bit off. Maybe it's the colors in the trailer, or how the clothing in the GI cover looks a little too modern...I mean, it's still good, and there's really not a lot of images/info on her yet.

[benporter]

We still have to remember that Irrational are trying to sell a game. They're hardly going to put some donkey-faced man-woman as one of the lead protagonists, are they? I still don't think she's as objectified as everyone is making out. She has breats (as women are wont to have), and wears a corset, just as was dictated by fashion back then.

[koutaf]

I love Elizabeth, she looks like a very complex character and surely she will be a good partner in the game. This aspect is an improvement from the previous games so I'm sure it will not disappoint.

[sac_boi]

I seriously hope they take away the makeup.

It was quite uncommon for women to wear makeup in public at the time. If you'll recall from your American History class, the "flappers" kinda started the whole wearing-makeup-in-public thing and those weren't going strong 'till the twenties.

Since it sounds like Columbia has been cutoff from the public for a time, and considering the degree of American exceptionalism in this game, I find it difficult to believe the citizens of the city would let Elizabeth wear her makeup during her capture and that she would take the time to put it on after DeWitt rescues her.

I don't care about her body type; that's nothing she can help. But, I agree with Rapture and that she should look a bit more like her time.

Then again, we still know very little about her . . .

[benporter]

sacboi said:

I seriously hope they take away the makeup.

It was quite uncommon for women to wear makeup in public at the time. If you'll recall from your American History class, the "flappers" kinda started the whole wearing-makeup-in-public thing and those weren't going strong 'till the twenties.

I don't know where your American History teacher gets his/her facts, but that simply isn't true.


http://www.ehow.com/how_4517104_appl...le-makeup.html


Google 'Makeup 1910s' and you'll find a ton of links about it. Although, Columbia probably falls into 1900s since it's been cut off for a while. But even then you'll find a lot.

[sac_boi]

benporter said:

sacboi said:

I seriously hope they take away the makeup.

It was quite uncommon for women to wear makeup in public at the time. If you'll recall from your American History class, the "flappers" kinda started the whole wearing-makeup-in-public thing and those weren't going strong 'till the twenties.

I don't know where your American History teacher gets his/her facts, but that simply isn't true.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4517104_appl...le-makeup.html

Google 'Makeup 1910s' and you'll find a ton of links about it. Although, Columbia probably falls into 1900s since it's been cut off for a while. But even then you'll find a lot.

My bad. What I meant by public was outside the theater and off camera.

[benporter]

sacboi said:


My bad. What I meant by public was outside the theater and off camera.

Even then women still wore makeup. Granted it was probably a lot less, but they did.

[Systemaddict]

I think this isn't a huge issue. First - it's two years away and lots can change. Second, her looks will mean nothing if her character is handled with a deft hand and given the depth she deserves. Nothing in Irrationals history gives me reason to believe this isn't the case and I won't let a couple screens and video taint my expectation that they meet that standard again.

[Aelle]

It's already been said a couple of times in this thread, but I just thought I'd back the corset argument up with a little personal experience.


As someone who wears a corset daily (I'm a waist trainer), I can promise you that the cleavage is quite realistic. Personally, I wear an underbust (which doesn't give you near as much boobage as an overbust like Elizabeth is wearing) and it still jacks my tits nearly up my nose. In comparison, an overbust actually pulls the flesh from under a woman's armpits and the sides of her breasts and pushes it forward, not to mention the generous lift up from below the breasts.


Overbust corsets EASILY make women look two to three cups larger than they really are.


As for the overall idea that Elizabeth is "too attractive"...


Bull☺☺☺☺☺☺.


She's pretty, yes, but on my college campus ALONE I can find women more attractive than her. Personally, the idea that someone would find her "too attractive" is a little shocking to me...I mean. I've been playing games for years and yes, I would agree that most female characters in games are only there to be eyecandy (the gaming world is still amazingly sexist--anyone see that PS3 commercial with the stupid girlfriend who thought God of War was a movie?). But I was actually very happy to see Elizabeth, a very average (and yes, attractive) woman in Bioshock Infinite.


I'm not usually one to raise the feminist flag in a gaming environment (really, it's pointless to do so anyway) but I really hope Elizabeth turns out to be a believable character who can stand on her own two feet. We need more female characters who are realistically strong (within the confines of the game), who aren't idiots or cold-hearted ☺☺☺☺☺es. It would be nice. Really.