I want to work for Irrational....help?

[drhackula]

Hey all,


I'm a junior in High School, but I was in public school all the way up until now. My school only offered one programming class which I did take, but it was only basic Python stuff. I'm being home schooled for junior and senior years, and want to be a Programmer or Level Designer. I'm creating my own curriculum for my last two years, and I live in NH. More than anything, I want to work for Irrational because I love your games and I grew up in the Quincy area. So, my question is, what languages should I study? I know how to practice level design with things like Valve Hammer editor and such, but languages are what I'm hung up on. What else should I try to study for this field? Should I get a college degree?


Thanks so much to anyone who replies,

Jesse Gardner

[ig.kraack]

A college degree is helpful but not strictly necessary. You'll probably have an easier time getting a job if you have one, though.


Every game I've ever worked on was programmed primarily in C++. It's a good bet that it'll still be the standard for years to come. C# would probably be good to learn, too.

[drhackula]

Thanks for the reply =]


What kind of degree would I be looking at? A general Computer Science degree from any college or should I go for a game-oriented college for a more specific game design degree?

I have so many questions.


Thanks,

Jesse

[ig.don]

drhackula said:

Thanks for the reply =]

What kind of degree would I be looking at? A general Computer Science degree from any college or should I go for a game-oriented college for a more specific game design degree?

I have so many questions.

Thanks,

Jesse

I'm not a designer - so I can't speak to the designer-route here - but I do find that designers all seem to follow radically different paths to becoming designers. Some study computing... some are journalists... some start in QA just learning game-engines and design by default. It's an amazingly diverse crowd of people and hopefully we can get an answer from a designer in here.


As far as going the CS route... I can certainly speak to that.


With a degree at a game-oriented college (DigiPen, Full Sail, Guildhall, etc) for your studies the benefit is that you will learn a lot of game-specific technology and constraints and - most importantly - you will have the opportunity to work on multi-disciplinary game projects. You will learn linear-algebra by default... you will study graphics heavily... physics in terms of solvers... AI path-finding in A*...realms of topics that generally have direct application to modern gaming.


At a college with a classical CS curriculum you will find much of the same... but unless the college has a "game development" track - you will likely have to figure out which classes apply to your desired career path on your own (note: "on your own" means talking with professors and guidance at the school... not literally on your own). Obviously - you will have a lot of opportunity to learn about more diverse topics at a general school and if you have a hankering for a little film, business, philosophy, etc... then you should definitely take that into account in your decision.


What will be a little more difficult to find will be the practice of participating in a "game project"... something that is a requirement at a game-oriented college. Much of working on a game is developing content and design pipelines... slick ways to get art and ideas into your game... and that's something that is very difficult to teach someone without some hands-on experience.


I would definitely reiterate what Kraack said... C++ is the prominent language in the game-industry right now and if you want to program in this industry you must learn it.


C# is something everyone should at least toy with - and as a bonus you can write XNA framework games in C# as you learn the language and learn how to structure together coherent games.

[adrianis]

Helpful question and answers


Im currrently working in an IT business, going to take some long-way-round courses with a distance learning operation here in the UK (Open University) to get programming skills, but I really can't afford to go to get a proper degree for it. Besides that i dont want to get into decades of debt to our student loans company...


So, I was thinking of getting game making experience with a dedicated Mod team or non-profit game devs in my spare time once im very famil programming. Do you guys know anyone working in games now that got into it that way? I got massively inspired by the guy doing 'Infinity: Quest for Earth' (check it out if you dont know it, seriously impressive stuff that guys done) and I've heard from developer interviews that building up a portfolio in that way would be a good way to go about it, just wandering if you have any direct experience of that?


Thanks for your time

[ig.don]

adrianis said:

Helpful question and answers

Im currrently working in an IT business, going to take some long-way-round courses with a distance learning operation here in the UK (Open University) to get programming skills, but I really can't afford to go to get a proper degree for it. Besides that i dont want to get into decades of debt to our student loans company...

So, I was thinking of getting game making experience with a dedicated Mod team or non-profit game devs in my spare time once im very famil programming. Do you guys know anyone working in games now that got into it that way? I got massively inspired by the guy doing 'Infinity: Quest for Earth' (check it out if you dont know it, seriously impressive stuff that guys done) and I've heard from developer interviews that building up a portfolio in that way would be a good way to go about it, just wandering if you have any direct experience of that?

Thanks for your time

I've seen people transition from all sorts of professions into every discipline in the game industry. It's definitely not impossible.


The best thing you can do is work on a couple projects at home. Start with something really small and then expand into a larger game that requires you to create a more diverse set of systems. Get a feel for using some of the free tools out there (Blender, UDK, XNA, etc) and all you'll need is a good team-oriented approach to land a job in the industry.


I've also seen people who are just really good at a single concept (like physics) transition into the game industry because they just "get it" and their base skill-set/understanding is prepared to tackle the various issues we face every day.


As a self-taught programmer you'll need to realize a couple things:


1) Programming is just a tool in your tool-box. It's just a way of describing functionality and gluing things together. It's important but not nearly as important as understanding the high-level concepts. You'll need to understand a variety of crazy concepts to actually "get something done". The code is just an expression.


2) The only way you will pick up "good" habits and get better/more-fluent at programming is by practicing and working with open-source/samples that have solid architecture. Have a professional review your work and give you feedback. Find good communities that interact at a comfortable level.

[adrianis]

That was my plan, although i wont be strictly self taught in programming since im taking a work-funded course, but then i dont think it does C++ (though it is object oriented) so that certainly will be.


Thanks for your response dude, much appreciated

[bfdannourse]

Hi all, I am game art student all the way down in Australia. I'll just cut to the chase what does the industry look for when they bring junior 3D artist. My skills are Maya, Photoshop, mudbox and UDK. BTW are mod projects useful?

[sunjammer]

So what if I've got something like 10 years as a fulltime Flash developer (not designer or animator), is that any good at all?

I'll dabble in C++ with openFrameworks and JUCE for audio plugins, but it's a language I personally feel is compatible with a specific class of human being I don't necessarily belong to.


Flash is such a nice community and business to be in, but it often feels like a cul-de-sac in terms of the fields you can realistically work in.

[bfdannourse]

Hi all, I am game art student all the way down in Australia. I'll just cut to the chase what does the industry look for when they bring junior 3D artist. My skills are Maya, Photoshop, mudbox and UDK. BTW are mod projects useful?

[ig.don]

sunjammer said:

So what if I've got something like 10 years as a fulltime Flash developer (not designer or animator), is that any good at all?

I'll dabble in C++ with openFrameworks and JUCE for audio plugins, but it's a language I personally feel is compatible with a specific class of human being I don't necessarily belong to.

Flash is such a nice community and business to be in, but it often feels like a cul-de-sac in terms of the fields you can realistically work in.

Most nextgen games use some form of Flash variant for their UI (menus, HUD elements, etc) - but unless the studio has a completely streamlined process already you would likely need a firm grasp of C/C++ to make your tool-set/framework/integration work up to snuff.

[ig.don]

bfdannourse said:

Hi all, I am game art student all the way down in Australia. I'll just cut to the chase what does the industry look for when they bring junior 3D artist. My skills are Maya, Photoshop, mudbox and UDK. BTW are mod projects useful?

I'm not an artist - so take my response here with at least a hint of skepticism.


I imagine there are 3 major criteria of evaluation.


1) Raw artistic skill-set.

2) Understanding of process/pipeline/art-tech - and how you can improve it... what you do to make it work for you.

3) Team attitude.


Mod projects are awesomely useful. Get into one if you have the opportunity.

[bfdannourse]

yeah dude i am right now in the middle of mt second one as a team lead

[Sans Frontieres]

Extremely cool questions, answers, topics...


Through the glorious capabilities of the internet and social networking, I've been able to email or IM with some developers in the industry. I've heard this now from 2 sources, and essentially am coming here to confirm these thoughts that have been passed on.


Level design is something I would love to become involved in. Tthe need for raw skill or "an eye for the right thing" seems neccesary, which is understandable, but I haven't heard much on software. Nothing professional, but using the editors/toolsets that come with other FPS games (that are not Unreal related) I create levels (and have also messed around with RTS games). I don't really have a portfolio, but hypotheticlaly I'm applying for a job at IG...would I strictly need to know Unreal related software? And is this prevelant throughout the industry (as in, certain companies using certain software) ? It was mentioned before that C++ is a kind of industry standard...for level design, is there any equivalent or simply different horses for different courses? (Sorry for the lengthy post)

[iglegacy_mcmillan]

I see this come up alot in various forums, and it's a solid question. I'm new but my take on it is don't rush into the industry unless you're dead set on putting all you have into it. The game industry is competitive, that's an understatement though. Alot of the companies tend to be scattered throughout the states, with a decent number out in the burbank/california area.


There are position openings for irrational (game programmer, etc) that have been open for a while now, so I would check those requirements. I've seen gearbox's prog requirements as well, and they're generally the same.


For programmers, C++ is a must, but if you're going to school for a cs degree or physics, it's better to weigh your options first and ask yourself "am I willing to put myself on the line?" it's not meant to sound scary, but there's alot you can do you with a cs degree outside of just game programming. Learning visual basic or java to start out with, especially for novice progammers is a good starting point.


Unreal Development Kit is a great resource to expirement with and produce modded games. Alot of times mods are something you can use to show your skills and expertise considering Unreal Engine still is an industry standard, unless the studio produces their own game engine. Take a look at the UDK Make something unreal contest for an idea on the kind of design and proficiency that suits your skills.


Practice, practice, practice. It's hackneyed, it's cliched, it's trite, but it's a truth that any dedicated first time progammer, artist, level designer, texture artist, etc, needs to understand. You can shoot the breeze and claim you have great ideas(which you might) but if you don't improve your understanding of your skillset, it'll come off as sloppy and lazy. Invest in other fields as well to work for a game company. Often times you might apply for a position but having diversified interests helps you when you hypothetically work for a company.

[bfdannourse]

Well Spoken sir

[irishjohn]

I just want to say, this is a great thread. Solid advice and interesting questions. Good luck to all of you guys and thanks to the IG people for the replies.

[spectregunner]

I was curious, are all game designers mostly all programers, C++ types, or do you have guys that have other skills other than programing (besides artists and composers). I would think in such a competitive career field that one would need to be versed in many fields. Do you have dedicated writers, or do those writes and creative types have to dig into game code with the rest of the team?


I ask because my degree is in English and I'm good with computers; I'm just no programer, nor do I have a desire to program.

[ig.don]

spectregunner said:

I was curious, are all game designers mostly all programers, C++ types, or do you have guys that have other skills other than programing (besides artists and composers). I would think in such a competitive career field that one would need to be versed in many fields. Do you have dedicated writers, or do those writes and creative types have to dig into game code with the rest of the team?

I ask because my degree is in English and I'm good with computers; I'm just no programer, nor do I have a desire to program.

This is a tough question.


The answer depends on what team you're talking about and what you need to accomplish. I would say that there seems to be a strong move towards having designers be far more technically-minded - which often comes in the form of some sort of programming background.


Games are not getting simpler to create. As gamers we (rightly) demand more and better. More interesting interactions... better animation... more numerous and deeper characters... ease of entry into game-play but depth to master. The sorts of systems employed to push these boundaries are wildly complex by definition - so the people using them need to not just understand the system - but be able to bend them and improve them.


Since all these systems and tools are ultimately being used to make a game on a computing platform - then having some computing background gives someone a basis of knowledge that allows them to make far more encompassing decisions in a timely fashion than someone who doesn't have a basis of comparison and needs to learn something completely.


Ultimately - if you have good problem-solving capabilities and are able to learn and absorb - then you're a good candidate for the game industry. Some studios have very hard-lined roles for "coder" or "designer" - while some studios employ a fuzzier line around responsibility. It all depends on your team, their capabilities, and what the vision is for the game. Some studios have narrative designers... some don't need them.

[shycustis]

Hello~

Hope this hasn't been covered in the thread already. ://

My name's Shy-- I'm an artist and designer. Working for Irrational is one of my dreams, and would love to apply. Only problem is I'm willing but currently unable to relocate. I actually had some professional contact with an Irrational employee not long ago, and asked about the likeliness of being considered/hired without relocating, so I understand it's extremely unlikely, but was wondering if there was a place/way/person to contact to apply regardless. I'd like to try my chances anyway, nothing to loose!

Thanks so much! I really hope to hear back.

[ltreyt15]

I would love to work for Irrational! (From Thread)


I have applied to work for Irrational but I haven't heard back.

I am willing to work as a QA Tester if need be. I love the work done on Bioshock and System Shock 2 and would love to be part of the creative process in developing a game like that.


Any ideas on how to get my foot in the door?

[natsuto]

I just cut to chase what industries, they bring the junior high school 3D artists. My skills is Maya, Photoshop, Mudbox, Kodak 10 and the UDK.

[hunterdavidross]

What kid of art jobs does Irrational Games offer?

Also, I'm heading off to college soon and was wondering what programs I should take to become a concept artist...

[laforzadimente]

Seeing as an IG staff member hasn't been in here in over a year: If you're interested in seeing what jobs Irrational offers, visit http://irrationalgames.com/studio/ca...at-irrational/


Below is an example of an Art position (Level Builder).

The original BioShock team is at it again. Under the direction of Ken Levine, we are setting our sights on outdoing our past achievements with BioShock Infinite. With BioShock’s Metacritic rating set at 96, this won’t be an easy task. This is why we need you.


Simply put, level builders create worlds. As a level builder, you are directly responsible for creating our worlds. You will need to combine a strong aesthetic sense in creating visually interesting spaces with a solid understanding of how gameplay is affected. You will also need to possess the technical skills to ensure that your levels work within the constraints of the game technology.


Job requirements:


•Understanding of contemporary 3D first-person engine technologies and editing tools

•Experience creating first-person levels using Unreal, Quake, Half-Life or similar technologies for commercial titles (this must be demonstrated through actual levels created for these engines)

•Understanding of and desire to create first-person shooter gameplay

•Interest in and understanding of architecture, lighting, texturing and other elements that are required to create aesthetically pleasing 3D levels

•Ability to meet deadlines

•Ability to work and contribute effectively in a team environment

•Collaborate with the Art Director to lead the creation of consistent, high-quality work

•Model, texture and light 3D environments for a state of the art next-gen game engine

•Meet project deadlines and milestones

Required skills:


•Outstanding communication skills

•Ability to work within technical constraints and generate top-quality art

•Ability to create a highly modular, reusable building system

•Clear understanding and implementation of technical guidelines and constraints

•Ability to effectively collaborate with other departments

Bonus Points:


•Experience with UE3

•Traditional art skills, ability to do occasional environment concept drawings/paintings

•Capable of creating any aspect of a 3D game environment including modeling, texturing, and lighting of terrain, architecture, world objects and collisions

•A fluent knowledge of 3ds Max and Photoshop

•Experience with animated environment effects (such as particles)

•4+ years of industry experience.

•Ability to use basic programming or scripting tools

When Applying for this Position:

Please remember to include art samples as appropriate including 3D rendered material, concept sketches, 2D work and/or animation. When submitting extensive samples of 2D work, please send high-resolution samples, preferably on a CD submitted through mail, or provide the address for your online portfolio. No one will be considered without a portfolio. To be considered for this position you must submit salary requirements.

Shape some of your experience and training off of these templates if it is what you want to do. Also, don't necessarily expect to land what you want after you graduate. You may wind up working for someone else to build up your experience first. In fact, IG's descriptions seem to look for those that have proven themselves in the industry with other projects beforehand. Get involved with indie projects, create your own, do some internships, build a portfolio, etc then come back to Irrational.


As for the concept artist thing most of that will probably focus mainly around sketching so anything related to that would probably be a good idea. Not sure if concept development is large enough of a duty to warrant an entire position so you may want to supplement your skills with 3d modeling classes / something else.

[9ice]

@hunterdavidross - I can't speak for what Irrational looks for in concept artists, but I know that companies like Valve and Blizzard prefer to have multi-disciplined artists on staff. What that means is by all means learn your Photoshop, but also try to learn a 3D art program like Mudbox or ZBrush. The more things you can do, the more attractive an investment you are to the company.


With that said, it also goes without saying that your traditional drawing skills need to be sharp, and it can't hurt to learn traditional sculpting as well.

[hunterdavidross]

1019ice said:@hunterdavidross - I can't speak for what Irrational looks for in concept artists, but I know that companies like Valve and Blizzard prefer to have multi-disciplined artists on staff. What that means is by all means learn your Photoshop, but also try to learn a 3D art program like Mudbox or ZBrush. The more things you can do, the more attractive an investment you are to the company.

With that said, it also goes without saying that your traditional drawing skills need to be sharp, and it can't hurt to learn traditional sculpting as well.

Haha, 3D and sculpting are not my strongest skills but I guess practice makes perfect

[hunterdavidross]

Okay, so I've been going over the requirements for Art: Level Builder, it has quite a lot of things you need to be sufficient in. It confuses me in a way though, It says that you need to be familiar with Unreal editing tools along with 3D art and 2D art. I'm downloaded UDK and am teaching my self with tutorials on the Internet and I can already draw really well, but in the application it only asks for 3D models and 2D art pieces, why wouldn't they ask you to send in a level you created or something?

I geuss all I'm trying to ask is what EXACTLY are they looking for in the application (what kind of models and art) concept/ freestyle/ scenery? Please help.

[laforzadimente]

"3D rendered material" encompasses level building in my mind.

hunterdavidcross said:I geuss all I'm trying to ask is what EXACTLY are they looking for in the application (what kind of models and art) concept/ freestyle/ scenery? Please help

That's why you need to get involved in a small-time project first. The requirements of what you need to build will present themselves in order to finish the project. Then you can start your portfolio from those. As you gain experience you will come up with ideas that may not have a home in an existing project and can make those on the side and add them to your submission.