Abduction of Soldiers

[Zxc]

...sorry if this has been posted before but I couldn't find any threads on this topic...

Jake Soloman says in a lot of interviews that the game starts out as being about people being abducted. He's obviously talking about civilians. What do you think of the idea that once in a while, during tactical combat, one of your soldiers can be abducted? One alien might physically or psionically capture one of your guys and disappear with them off the battlescape to leave the rest of your team to finish off the mission.

That soldier would then go MIA or presumed KIA.

Then, some time later, perhaps you either go on a mission to retrieve him / her, or you find the soldier unconscious in a subsequent tactical mission, or during an interaction with a funding council nation, they return him / her to you (with the hint of wanting a future favour, of course, to introduce a little strategic fun).

You could then debrief this soldier by "researching" him / her and perhaps learning a little something about the aliens.

From this point, there could be many consequences. Either you learn something vital about the aliens which enhances X-Com's position in the war, or the soldier's statistics could change (e.g. bravery, or whatever they are calling it in this reimagining), or they could actually become a sleeper agent and turn on you, either in tactical combat or in the strategic realm (e.g. in the ant farm view, perhaps you find him snooping around somewhere where he / she shouldn't, or he/she inhibits the efficiency of some facility. Perhaps there are more base attacks because the soldier has planted a beacon.). Or perhaps the morale of other soldiers rises when he/she is around because "we got Joe Blow back, good as ever."

Of course, if the soldier is made into a sleeper agent for the aliens, the player will quickly learn in future games to sack abducted soldiers after debriefing them. So to make it interesting and make it a replay-able mechanic, I think the consequences will have to be randomly selected by the game and/or the potential benefits will have to be substantial to make it hard to automatically sack the soldier or turn them into cannon fodder.

Just my two cents. What do people think?

[DazzD]

Awesome idea. It could be setup as a snatch and grab mission by the aliens. As soon as one of your squadies gets KO'ed the Mutons rush him/her and they all hi tail it back to the UFO. Or our first alien UFO mission the ship takes off as soon as our first squadie enters it!

I like the idea of the squadie getting dumped back to a council somewhere around the world and them wanting something for him/her. It fits perfectly with new strategic layer mechanics. We have the choice of getting a good soldier back... if we are willing to pay the price.

[Oathbreaker]

I would support this wholeheartedly. Let the dev team have some fun and throw in a few monkey-wrenches once in a long while. But that's as long as it doesn't end up being "okay, and here's the part where they kidnap my crew - again - just like they did last playthrough, ugh."

[Dn0uk]

Be quite funny to see them having nightmares about "the probe" back at the ant farm!

[DazzD]

Good point, it would have to be at least a little random. Playing through the game a second time and knowing exactly what is around the corner makes it too easy to counter. If it were the first UFO mission I would hire a new rookie to enter first every time Maybe a random (but very rare) soldier kidnapping to keep us on our toes. Then if we are willing to pay the price we get our solider back we can also can debrief him/her about an alien technology (make it worth our while).

[mifkin]

Best idea I've read on the forum, given that we're stunning and capturing them 24/7 it doesn't make sense for them to not return the favour.

[heniv]

To me it sounds a bit to much like TV Sci-fi along the lines of Stargate, BSG, V and so on. Not the type of drama I would associate with X-Com. Imo it would fit better into a game with more characterized soldiers, like Mass Effect.

But the mechanic would open up a lot of interesting possibilities for new game mechanics as you point out.



PS. "Joe Blow..., good as ever" is a horrible name for a soldier, especially in that sentence. =D DS.

[ste-V]

heniv: To me it sounds a bit to much like TV Sci-fi along the lines of Stargate, BSG, V and so on. Not the type of drama I would associate with X-Com. Imo it would fit better into a game with more characterized soldiers, like Mass Effect.

same here; the aliens in UFO dont seem the investigative type of aliens, more the: shoot first, ask questions later - alien.

the only problem i have with this idea is, that it'd shift the focus onto ONE "special" guy/girl. you'd try to save an abducted soldier and keep him in your rooster, as you put some effort into to get him back. that would give him more "character", which would make all the other soldiers unequal, in a certain way (eg depth of player narrative). reading OPs post, i somehow had KOTOR in the back of my head, and thought it would fit in there alot. would at least make a classic hollywood-story
also the issue of NOT making it seem scripted would arise here, i guess...

[Wrench]

Great concept! Good thinking Zxc.

Devs please take note of this idea.. It could have alot of spinoff possibilities.

[SectoidSquisher]

That would certainly throw a few googlies (curved balls for USA friends) into the game. A most worthwhile two cents methinks.

[ShredZ]

Maybe this could happen if your soldier is left behind on a mission, maybe he's mind controlled or unconscious, and your team retreats without him. If you do it to yourself I would be okay with it, but aliens capturing your troops sounds a lil over the top.

[Zxc]

I think everyone's has made some great comments. I especially agree that it shouldn't happen often or it would be terrible. I don't think it should even happen every play-through / campaign. I think it should only be frequent enough that if you got a bunch of players in a room, not all the casual X-COm players would know what you are talking about but the diehards would each have 1-2 stories.

I think it would also be a great test of the player's connection to their soldiers if the aliens picked out the higher ranking soldiers for abduction. Imagine if they took your...Mom, or whatever your naming scheme is...imagine how trying on your nerves it would be for that soldier to be gone, and then you get a chance to recover that soldier. I would literally put a face on alien abductions...the face of your soldier that you picked and customized and levelled up, rather than some civilian you never see (unless you guys know something about this game that I don't.)

Regarding ste-V's comments that it might focus attention on one soldier, I can see how that is possible, if you design it poorly. But I offer 2 rebuttals:
1. We all have favourite soldiers or soldiers with great stories. Doesn't that create an "unequal" footing with your other soldiers who are not quite so good? Why would abduction create a new situation? I propose that most players do not have an equal relationship with all their soldiers.
2. If you design it poorly, make players jump through hoops, make them track down UFO's who are likely carrying the body, follow up on clues, interrogate live aliens and learn bits and pieces of information to find this soldier, then I totally agree with you. But in my opinion, if the soldier is taken, time passes, you go on with the war, and then you get a chance to recover them later, not too much drama, not too much focus.

As for the thought that these aliens don't seem like the investigative types, from what I recall of the original game and what I understand of the present game, they abducted people and cows and did surgery. How is that not investigation?

And sorry about the "Joe Blow" comment. I could tell from other threads that I didn't want to derail this one into "how do you name your soldiers?" "Joe Blow" is a nice Canadian expression for an anonymous person.

[ste-V]

1. We all have favourite soldiers or soldiers with great stories. Doesn't that create an "unequal" footing with your other soldiers who are not quite so good? Why would abduction create a new situation? I propose that most players do not have an equal relationship with all their soldiers.
2. If you design it poorly, make players jump through hoops, make them track down UFO's who are likely carrying the body, follow up on clues, interrogate live aliens and learn bits and pieces of information to find this soldier, then I totally agree with you. But in my opinion, if the soldier is taken, time passes, you go on with the war, and then you get a chance to recover them later, not too much drama, not too much focus.

As for the thought that these aliens don't seem like the investigative types, from what I recall of the original game and what I understand of the present game, they abducted people and cows and did surgery. How is that not investigation?

1. the way i thought of it, was maybe too fixiated on that one soldier. my point was, the game would "tend" to give you a soldier thats "special". sort of out of nothing. I just wanted to stress that I'd prefer, if the soldier preferances would come from skills and so forth.

2. yep, i'm totally with you in this. if you can make it not THAT of a scripted mission, and it would only be coincidence, that you'd run across that one soldier, then it would add alot to the game.

investigative: YES, you totally got me there! i forgot how the whole thing started out, once i saw the geoscape

thanks for clearing that up. I'd like your idea added to the game!

[tazong]

I love the idea on some missions where your soldier or soldiers could be abducted by the aliens but i think it would be much more fun if on later missions they reappear and they have been modified in some way and are now actually fighting for the aliens - having to kill them would be so much harder.
As suggested if they were recaptured alive - you could gain some mega research or new tech from this happening or even having them fight for you again with some sort of extra sensory perception against the aliens.
To be honest i love this idea - they could almost be double agents - you could gain something from having them back but they could turn on you and kill an entire squad - do you trust them - do you welcome them back - do you kill them and move on - so many twists and turns - imagine he is your top soldier - he is captured - 10 missions later you fight against him in a ufo crash battle and recature him alive - he gives you vital information - do you trust him - will you spend weeks of research and he turns out to be the saviour of mankind or has he sold you a dummy and given the aliens the time they need while you research and turkey.
what a great idea - i love it.

[Zxc]

[QUOTE=ste-V;1538527]1. the way i thought of it, was maybe too fixiated on that one soldier. my point was, the game would "tend" to give you a soldier thats "special". sort of out of nothing. I just wanted to stress that I'd prefer, if the soldier preferances would come from skills and so forth.


I deeply respect your point. I agree I like soldiers to set themselves apart from the rest by their own merits under trial by fire. What I propose does introduce a new way of adding to an individual soldier's story. But alas, such are the difficulties of remaking / reimagining something sacred - if you stick too closely to the original, you get accused of rehashing old material. If you change too much, you get accused of deviating from the spirit of the original. It's such a fine line. Firaxis developers, if you really read what's in these forums, just know that I'm one fan who will probably love whatever you make.

[Zxc]

I love the idea on some missions where your soldier or soldiers could be abducted by the aliens but i think it would be much more fun if on later missions they reappear and they have been modified in some way and are now actually fighting for the aliens - having to kill them would be so much harder.
As suggested if they were recaptured alive - you could gain some mega research or new tech from this happening or even having them fight for you again with some sort of extra sensory perception against the aliens.

You know, I was thinking about some of the same things (in regards to your comments about the modification part) as I typed the original post. From what I've seen of the developer interviews, their inspiration for the Thin Man was as the "man in black" mythology who infiltrates into the human world. They look sort of normal, but sort of off. I thought it would be awesome if the soldier had that same "man in black" feel when you recover them. Maybe they have hollow eyes because of their experience, or they walk oddly, perhaps somewhat like sectoids. Something just isn't quite right with them.

And regarding your comment about having them fight for you with some sort of new benefit, like extra-sensory perception, that's a great idea. What crossed my mind was something like District IX in which the guy who sprouted the alien limb developed the unique ability to wield alien technology. Now I'm not proposing that the recovered soldier should sprout a muton arm, but just the idea that because he/she's been in close proximity to the aliens for some time, they "understand" them and have some sort of unique ability, as one of the possible consequences of recovery.

But like Oathbreaker and DazzD said, I don't think soldier abduction should happen too often. Otherwise it loses its novelty and overwhelms the original things about X-Com that we all love - the idea of an underpowered force who shoots down UFO's, goes on tactical missions, recovers alien bodies and artifacts, and advances technology while managing a global strategy to gain ground in the war. I don't think soldier abduction should be too scripted or occupy too much space in the story or it will distract and detract from all of that. (sorry, I'm a newbie at forums. I don't know how to quote multiple people from within a single post.)

[misterlarry]

This really is a good idea that opens many different possibilities for game play and risk/reward excitement. Hopefully the developers think along the same lines.

[DazzD]

Another addition that I was thinking of was rather then that soldier being returned to an alliance for us to 'buy' back, what if that soldier fought his way out of capture. As a kind of payment for loosing a good soldier for a few missions he/she lands back to earth with an alien weapon and a choice of 4 more perks to upgrade. Just a thought... I really like the idea of the abductions. And like it has been mentioned make them something that is really really rare so only those that have played the game alot have seen them!

[Zxc]

Oooo...escape from capture...now there's another fun possible outcome. I like that.

The sad part for me is that I have a feeling Firaxis is past the point of introducing new design ideas and might not be able to institute this, if they didn't already think about it. I don't think it would be hard to integrate but what do I know? I don't know the first thing about programming.

[bucky699]

I'd support this idea as long as you can learn where they took your men and have a chance to rescue them, maybe slightly traumatised by the alien "probing" lol

[DazzD]

Well there was mention that soldiers that have been critical hit in the past might panic easier in later missions. I would say a probing counts as at least one critical hit... If your squad can get to the captured soldier before they start, you get a rescue bonus if not you get a very sore soldier returned.

@Zxc, it is probably far too late to add to the game if they are in beta and just doing the balancing act. It doesn't hurt for us to give them ideas for the patches and sequels tho!

[nu_clear_day]

I could see this being an interesting idea.

What I really liked about X-Com back in the day, was that it felt kind of like I was playing a 2-player game with the computer playing the role of the aliens. To me, it always felt like the alien side was building up their forces in almost the same manner that I was. When they were going on terror missions and the like, they were also trying to gather resources to build up their side.

Intellectually, I know that when I go into an encounter and see a new alien that I haven't encountered before, it's because it's kind of set up that way - enough time has passed, I've reached certain milestones, and that triggers some sort of algorithm that tells the computer it's time for me to start fighting Floaters, now. But emotionally, it often felt like - when the Mutons started showing up, that was because the computer was devoting resources to bring them into the field, and had reached their own resource milestones to unlock a new enemy to use in their fight against.

Anyway - to bring that to the topic: Part of your own mission objective is often going to be trying to capture an alien to bring back alive for study. So I can certainly see the possibility for some symmetry on the aliens' side, where they might be looking to do the same thing to you.

I wouldn't want it to necessarily be a scripted thing, though - rather an emergent part of the gameplay. That really could be as simple as an alien type that goes in with some sort of stun weapon and is looking to stun and capture one of your soldiers in much the same way that you're trying to do the same thing with them.

[tazong]

I think someone may have touched on this idea in another thread but i think its worth mentioning in here to:
This is based on interceptor missions(shooting down ufo) - basically the interceptors are manned by pilots - now like soldiers you have to buy pilots to fight and shoot down the ufos.Pilots are very much like scientists and can have a low skill and high skills and obviously the more missions they fly and ufos they shoot down they can level up and get better - now heres the twist?
Normally if the interceptor is shot down it is destroyed - i think it would be better if it was like 50/50 situation wether the plane was destroyed and pilot died or if he manages to eject - obviously the better the pilot the more chance he has of ejecting.
now if he ejects over sea - would be nice if you could build like a rescue recover veiachle like a helicopter - that could go and pick up rescued pilots and he lives to fight another day - if you dont have rescue recovery - he drowns and is lost.
be nice to have a little movie of either being rescued or drowning just to make you feel worse/better.
This does 2 things firstly makes pilots major assets like soldiers and also adds more tactical spice to the game.
now if the pilot ejects over land - the aliens will always automatically land and try to kill him - but you do have the chance to send in a recsue squad to save him - this would be like a tactical mission for your soldiers.
now i know the is a soldiers wall of fame but to have a pilots hall of fame to - most ufos shot down - tactical missions - rescues etc etc etc would be just so cool it would be untrue.
I think it would add a lot more depth and stratagy to the game
i personally think little touches like this makes the difference from a game thats very good - to a game thats outstandingly brilliant - try to cover all the angles and tick as many boxes as you can - would only be a good thing if it were included.