FFA
H2H
No difference
Hey Im curious to what everyone thinks because I had this conversation earlier......the luck discussion has been hashed out....there's luck but not enough to influence your record in the long run....
Question: Is there more luck in FFA or in H2H.....basically which is more skill based or are they pretty much even?
Hope your not referring to rank record because that doesn't prove anything...Originally Posted by GrizzleyTigers4
Last edited by ITZ DENI3D; 04-28-2012 at 02:47 AM.
I don't remember saying anything about rank.....theres little competition in ranked these days compared to forum matches.........Im asking exactly what I said....which one is more luck based.......rank has nothing to do with that...
Well that is what I was wondering about.
I voted FFA, one reason there is more human players.
Usually against forum members 2 players will waste everything on each other while the other 2 take off in tech, but in ranked it is different... I have played hardly any FFA games against forum members though so it is hard to tell... I think the starfish map would be the ultimate equalizer to take the most luck out of the equation. 4 human players on a big ass map with virtually even starts equals a fun as game
All you FFA guys say that but what are you comparing it to.....none of you play ranked H2H and you just said you rarely play forum FFA. You guys are comparing forum h2h to ranked ffa which you cant do. You need to play some raned FFA and compare all the noobish stuff in ranked FFA to that, not forum play. Forum play is tougher anyways on both sides....Usually against forum members 2 players will waste everything on each other while the other 2 take off in tech, but in ranked it is different... I have played hardly any FFA games against forum members though so it is hard to tell... I think the starfish map would be the ultimate equalizer to take the most luck out of the equation. 4 human players on a big ass map with virtually even starts equals a fun as game
With the startfish the wonders and barbs never move so its even more luck in my opinion because the closest person to a wonder should get it guaranteed.....
I think u mean "artifact". Not "wonder". I voted ffa as well.
That is simple, just tell everyone they can't get the artifacts, if someone accidentally gets LCOA thats fine but other than that it would be the purest game that is all about skill IMO...
H2H is for people that want to abuse AI... Whoever finds AI first to abuse wins... not so much in FFA. People voting FFA gets spanked in FFA majority of the dang time. There is only a handful of people who play h2h alot and can kill it in FFA as well. There is also more use of Power Civs in h2h too than anything... where there can only be "luck" that the Zulu beats China, Indians beat Romans, Greeks beat Japanese, Mongols beat Americans. Bring 4 of them together and luck will diminish a whole lot more than freaking h2h.
I think this thread is pointless to because 75% of this forum people play non-stop h2h and will gladly choose FFA even though they rarely play it.
I think Duke realizes FFA takes a different skill set than H2H... But I agree, it really is about abusing the AI and I said this months ago... Not to mention all the tech civs that can easily be taken from the AI like CoL, Nav, Fundy, Monarchy and Demo... In FFA that takes all of that luck out of the equation which is a big deal...
Last edited by ITZ DENI3D; 04-30-2012 at 03:34 AM.
Hard to tell, but FFA is easier, in h2h instead you know who your enemy is and there is no way you can avoid him.
I played a bunch of ranked FFA games recently and I was shocked at the level of "noobness". Sometimes even beyond description. Many beginners seem to play FFA. I guess because of the quick play option. The only problem is that if there is a decent player in there and you cannot get to him because he is too far away and you are busy taking out the other 2 humans, then the decent guy has a chance at turteling to a huge lead w/o playing well.
In FFA, the player that gets the AI cap has got a big advantage too. In H2H there are 3 AI caps and you can usually get at least one. So that is enough to work with.
I would say that FFA with 4 good players is tough and a different beast than H2H, since you have to account for more than one good opponent. But in most cases it boils down to at least 2 players wasting their resources on each other while the other one or 2 watch and tech up or wait for the other 2 to fight it out and then conquer.
Luck plays a role in both formats.
Regarding the amount of power civs: In my experience it is the exact opposite as mentioned before: You cannot find a ranked FFA game where there is not at least one Zulu/USA/China player in it. And if you happen to find one, then 3 out of 4 civs are Spain and Aztec. In H2H, the number of power civ users declined a lot over the last years. In FFA, the lobbies are full of them (mostly noobs though)
I may go into longer detail another day, but for now.....
More luck in FFA, because there are more humans.
The (weak) AI is fairly constant. Humans vary considerably.
I voted FFA by the way.
Bad starting positions (which is luck) is much more recoverable in H2H.
Also in FFA, you can end up with 2 decent players close but separated by you, good luck recovering from trying to take both on at the same time.
more luck in FFA.
FFA. Starting postions are more important in FFA. Every time I played FFA with 4 good players at least one player would be screwed right away.
Lol, as I said... H2H players will choose FFA and FFA players will choose h2h... Common sense and again no point on the matter.
There is a point actually multi this whole thread is to prove to you personally that luck runs across FFA and H2H....you see it in both and there is no reason to stop playing one because you think its all based on luck because neither is.....also you are wrong about the H2H and FFA people picking the opposite....many people who voted(people you claim are only H2H players) play both.....
I play both... But there is the preferred choice. Majority of forum members don't play FFA.
Yea I used to prefer FFA and now I prefer H2H.....I think both are fun though
DigitalPackrat the only member on the forums that went from h2h to FFA to show that he still can/is at to the top in both. Only h2h player that is doing it now or maybe only can...
Ha thats funny man just cuz I dont feel like playing ffa with a buncha noobs doesnt really mean anything Ive played over 2000 games in FFA so I think that gives me a right to claim Im both. I prefer to play all my matches with forum players for good competition these days and I never back down from a challenge....
I hope this is a joke. 95% of Ranked FFA players are terrible. Last time I played FFA I won 30 some games in a row with the Greeks and then quit out of severe boredom.
Ditto I agree %100 duke, FFA games are too easy.
I forever find this to be talk and not action... Like people in h2h is that much better... Heck ever. I play at least 2 games of FFA per day and even a noob can get the best of you he's left alone... And then you quit because you don't feel like chasing the guy in tech to get tanks. I'm using Romans now in FFA and they dang near as bad as Mongols in FFA but I bet no one can do that and maintain a more than 3 to 1 in win to loss ratio even against power civs.
I also don't see why any of you all commenting period on either one of the play types when you all are garbage at this game because what the heck ever you all are doing in this game is considered by the majority on the forums to be luck. Luck equals NO DANG SKILL. Complaints about starting positions and map knowledge. Dang shame we even have these tourneys. I would love to see for once the word luck not come out of anyones mouths. Almost got me talking about luck and even civ or Mario gods effecting my gameplay listening to the trash in which means nothing to a real gamer..
Just because you don't use the word luck doesn't mean you are not saying it. Saying you lost because of an uneven battles or constantly getting techs from barbs is no different than saying you got unlucky. I would know because I've said itBut I've heard you say it plenty of times as well, just because you're not saying the word "luck" doesn't mean you're not referring to it...
Speak for yourself I dont quit in ranked ever....and who said h2h players were better? dont put words in our mouth...we have all gone on record to say that the play level in ranked for both h2h and ffa is seriously lacking in skill for the most post compared to forum matches
Dang someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Nothing is ever black and white...just cuz some luck exists doesnt mean that skills isnt the largest factor. If skills aren't #1 then explain to me why nobody can beat Duke on a regular basis....or why Packrat owns everybody right now at everything....garbage my butt..... Why are you being so confrontational lately multi.....acting like people have offended you....then you come to the forums...a public arena for debate and start calling everybody garbage and distasteful....
This is like me saying that you suck because you don't play H2H with the Russians only. And they are just as bad as the Mongols! Don't be so ignorant. Yes FFA is a different game than H2H. It doesn't mean just because we prefer one than we suck at the other.
Also, you saying that the Romans are dang near as bad as Mongols in FFA completely crushes your credibility. It's simply not even close to being true! Start with Republic AND 1/2 cost Wonders (actually very useful in FFA). Are you freaking kidding me?!?! You can hammer out Sam's castle every fricken game!
Go read my thread about luck again. As the skill gap closes, luck increases because THERE HAS TO BE A WINNER. It's not like chess where there can be a stalemate between evenly skilled players. Thats why winning 60-65% of your games against forum members is GOOD. If you go back and look at all of my tournament records I am well over .500. But I certinaly don't win every tournament I enter. Nobody does. I'm not complaining, just presenting the facts.
Nice Duke....you filled in all the holes I left in my post at 4am
I really don't care to tell the truth.... this debate about h2h and FFA is something that in the end no one will come to a true consensus on. I don't respect something like this even being mentioned on the forums when AGAIN as it is simply is, FORUM MEMBERS PLAY H2H PREFERRABLY!
No point in talking about skill in ranked for whatever because it is still being played by almost every dang one of you. Very hypocrite like to continue to bash ranked when it is where gameplay continues for everyone. BEFORE I CAME TO THE FORUMS I COULD BEAT EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU AT LEAST ONCE... IS THAT LUCK BECAUSE I WASN'T A FORUM MEMBER? Admittedly I have become a whoooole lot better than I was but still could hang with any of you. This goes for those that isn't forum members either. Talent in the forums seems to only come from who can win some h2h games... evaluating who is good with their bit of "luck"?
Your thread Duke basically to me gives a reason to blame things on luck if there is a lost on either side.... only luck in civ is battle luck, thats it! I woke up on the wrong side of the bed??? NOOOOOO, I'm seriously tired of dumb talk on luck. There is then no comparison to who's better than who if even the two is basically of the same skill but because someone throws in luck then neither really can be recognized. As I said before.... bet no one can go a game without throwing the word of luck in there, saying "You lucky Ba$ta^d" or "That's some lucky $hit".
Dude, chill out. I have no idea why you are so upset. Somebody bashes ranked FFA and you get all defensive just because that is what you play most? That is just silly. Rank really doesn't matter, especially in FFA where you can basically avoid early losses through a "glitch" in the system. We don't play player match FFA often just b/c it hard to schedule. And then when one player gets knocked out early is he supposed to wait for an hour for the 2nd game? No. So only one game ever gets played.
I can't speak for everyone, but a very large majority of my games are player matches. Probably over 90% in the last year. I only play ranked when there is nobody else to play and you know that. Also, I think many peoeple will tell you I admit when I get outplayed. It happens. If you outplay me, I will tell you.
Third, there is variance in this game in both formats. Just accept it. It is a fact. However, I totally agree with you though that people blame luck for loses way too much in this game. If you notice, the only times I blame luck are very unfairly balanced starts. If the game goes to knights, it probably wasn't luck unless the winning player just played with his food for an extra 30 turns.
But seriously, chill out and just enjoy the game. People blame things like luck for everything that goes bad in their life. It's a natural human reaction.
Im not sure if i even want to dignify that with a response
Last edited by GrizzleyTigers4; 05-04-2012 at 01:17 PM.
Well its either luck or fate... All I know is everything doesn't happen for a reason thats for sure... "The universe is hostile so impersonal, devour to survive so it is, so its always been..."
I wonder if people think FFA is more luck because they lose more in FFA? Maybe thats why I think H2H is more luck I'm not sure but I notice that Mawpawk loses a lot more in FFA than he does in H2H...
Again, I had time to read it, before it's been erased from mankind history!!!
It was a good answer, don't know why you edited it?
Yeah..everyone does since freezes occur 1000% more often.
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