Hopefully that car getting messed up was indeed functional and not just cosmetic, although it sure is pretty.
Remember that the truck the heavy was hiding behind when he comes under fire from the muton in the diner? That truck ends up a pretty good wreck, I wonder if that was done by the muton suppressive fire?
I know.. that's who. Watch the gameplay video again. Please answer for me the following: Please name for me, the 9 levels of power.Originally Posted by Inkidu
www.youtube.com/watch?v=G042hfKwYKg
No, but seriously, answer the following please, and you will answer the question:
1) damage inflicted by the LMG
2) the number of shots you count that hit the car
3) damage inflicted by the grenade (hint, its 4 points)
4) the result of a single frag being thrown at the car
I highly doubt that, at least, bullet based weapons can destroy actual terrain. Look at how the heavy gains access to the berserker.. he switches to the RPG. Why not just use the LMG if it would destroy the wall and then damage whatever is left inside?
Fair enough, but wait until that heavy gets a heavy laser (I imagine the laser replaement for the LMG). Terrain will run in fear!
True.. I would expect terrain suffers damage from weapon hits esp. more advanced weaponry. That was a key feature of the original and Jake said they definitely wanted to keep that element.
However, the actual distinction here is if suppressive fire causes terrain damage as opposed to direct aimed fire. And I believe it does not. Based upon the game mechanics and the system, it appears to work:
Click suppression button -> display graphics that suppression debuff is 'active' -> enemy unit is debuffed
Notice that the graphics are only a physical representation that the debuff has been activated, not actual fire being laid down with resultant damage to the underlying terrain.
Also, it appears that an actual unit is debuffed, not an area. So if there is a second enemy there, he is not affected (which is silly). Can you suppressive fire an enemy around the corner of a building??
Lets make sure that we all stay civilI appreciate that people are really amped up about the game and the possible things it will incorporate in ways of realism but stay away from insulting one another's research or opinions please.
Hah.. GalFriday.. It took me a while to find out what you could possibly be referring to or what quote triggered that post. Took me a second but then I realized its probably me "That's who" comment. LOL.. Me and Inkidu are good buddies, we go back hundreds of posts together. We laugh, we crying, we hold each other when times are bad. He knows I was just messing around and directly answering the question of "who", heh. He didn't take it in an aggressive way
katscan - I probably am overthinking it, your right. I'm just saying what is the to suppression that a Granade cant handle, because if it is Unit based debuff, then there is no point... I would imagine, overwatch would be a better tactic all round.
I just want to say, that if they are and will... have destructable enviorns, then they have to go, at least 90% of the way with this. I'm not talking about bulldozing bulidings and trains exploding... but cars and petrol sations, trees, thats all fair game if you ask me..
I think overwatch is the more passive option and suppression is used to set up more aggressive pushes.
If you wanted to push forward you would use the sniper in overwatch, and would revert back to the granade option and be blowing away walls, thats Aggressive....
The reason I call overwatch passive is because you forgo the shot now, for a possible shot later. Suppression pins people down with an accuracy neg and a possible shot while other people move in on the flank to perhaps take out another alien who's unsuppressed. It's the difference between having two overwatch shots taken at your guy and one.
Thank you Inkidu, I understand the difference. I think you are missing my point. which are two points:
1) Looking for a kill shot IS more aggressive than redecorating a wall.
2) There are tatics/equipment available that superseed Supression, grandes being one of them...
If you have two/three targets, the only time you would use supression (if any) would be if outnumberd. 4-3, 3-3, maybe.... but a 3-2, 2-2 you would go for an explosive/explosion of some sort. (I'd be thinking abouit this at 3-3) You would Never Split up a small team, not even to flank. The only time you split up, is escape and evade.
Other than that...You would be withdrawing and looking for a tactical advantage round the "dancefloor" then side arms would come into there own, especially if you are left with you Heavy weps guy & your Sniper.
Though can we clarify that unlimited Ammo & Cool down period(s) to heavy weps and sniper? if the answer is Yes and No respectivley, Then this makes Side-arms virtually usless...
I agree rharris. If there is a sectoid hiding behind a car, I am throwing a grenade rather than "applying a magic debuff" that adds "-10% accuracy, -2 movement squares" .. the latter is only marginally useful as the grenade will simply just take care of the enemy instead of tickling him and risking return fire.
Unlimited ammo - Yes Cooldown - No .. BUT.. The ammo per CLIP is limited, so you may run into a situation where you would have to forgo a shot in order to reload on your turn, versus switching to you sidearm and taking the shot, instead of reloading. (We speculated in another thread that switching to your sidearm is free while reloading takes a full action)
If I see a sectoid behind a car I will sit with my machine gun trained on the car and let out bursts of fire if I see anything around the car moving in a non-discriminating fashion. Mix of suppressing fire and overwatch I guess.
What are you waiting for GenPho, for him to blow you a kiss? Just nuke him. Throw the 'nade. THROW IT ! KILL HIM !!!
Eh, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.
Overwatch is passive because it relies on the enemy making a move. That means if they don't move you've wasted your action.
Suppression is more, let's not use aggressive... active. It's a much more active tactic.
You assume I'm splitting up a small team because I go for a flank? No, I'm not. If I suppress someone I could have the assault soldier and the support soldier move up to flank. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going off on their own. That means they're going to push against the enemy. A blitz as opposed to sitting back and hoping they don't throw a grenade in my overwatchers lap.
They're both valid tactics from what I can see. It just depends on what you want to do to impose your will.
Yeah I meant to address that. If grenades aren't an option (maybe I used them up on the last 3 sectoids I saw hiding behind cars) I would not "shoot to kill", I would shoot as fast as possible at the f***ing car with my machine gun hoping that something hits it, or to pin it in place.
Best scenario is that I can just call in an airstrike from 20 miles away, but that wouldn't be much of a game.
Hah.. yea true. Or perhaps your "grenade ability" is on its 5 minute "cooldown", perhaps you are out of "charges", or perhaps you have been affected by the "cloak of darkness debuff" and have 30 seconds left. I kid, I kid. Just don't forget to pick up your research tokens when the fight is over so that you can trade them in for fun stuff ;P
Yeah because being able to pick up completely alien weapons off the ground and use them with a touch of research and 0 modification isn't gamey at all
greta, so if you are "Supressing" and you flanking guy misses the shot (becuase you cant have two now) then your trooper that was "Supressing" next turn is on a cool down and you then are exposed in two positions.... oh ho...!
If you have overwatch on, at least you are not risking two guys for the sake of a tatic that could possible be a detriment to the team. Wait for him to make the first move, while your other trooper covers the arcs...then, BOOM....!
Unless he doesn't make a move and his buddy is flanking your overwatch unit ! In simulations such as Combat Mission, you overwatch an arc usually. Presumably, since vision is now 360, you can overwatch the areas to your flank and behind you too?
If you don't supress one of the enemies in that case then they presumably will get two free shots at your flanking soldier. In demo magic land the one alien missed, but would both of them missed???? (probably)
Hence, load everyone up with grenades ! I wonder what uber-weapon they will have to supplant the blaster launcher? That thing was awesome. I especially loved breaching the top of a ufo with one shot, and then nuking the inside of it, the control room with subsequent shots. But it certainly was an 'end game' weapon
I'm sure when I first started surfing for videos and interviews someone said going into supression mode was going to eat thru the ammo, so it might not always be available and maybe over watch will be your next best choice. Also this map was so small that grenades were always a good choice, even for the heavy during his first shot when he went into supression mode, he could've thrown a nade or he could've rocket launched the car, but this was all for show...
Also, was it coincidence that in the demo those that were doing the supression were prioritized? First the Heavy got shot, then the Support was targeted, and from the humans side the first Muton to die was the one using supression fire. Perhaps using supression is a good way to get yourself killed. :P
It would make more sense if you were still allowed to break cover, but doing so automatically resulted in being hit, or at least resulted in an extremely high probability of being hit. There's no reason why suppression should guarantee that an enemy can't move.
That's apparently how it works. Any shots taken from suppression take a hefty penalty to accuracy. Breaking from cover gives the suppressor a free shot.
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