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Thread: a look at win ratios

  1. #1

    a look at win ratios

    Let me explain a few things My W-L ratio and why it looks so good.. First, a bit of background. I have been playing for a while on and off. I like to use all the civs, particularly Mongols and French. A few months ago I picked up the game again and started playing. I have 3 accounts. I was playing a selection of different civs. Like random, but just picking myself. I had been lucky not to encounter any good Zulu (or at least close) or America players for the first couple of weeks. I found myself ranked around top 30 on two of the accounts. Approximately 20-2 or 20-3 ratio on both so I started trying to make the top 10. This is also when I started getting messages from players I never played or heard of calling me a cheat.

    I switched to using almost exclusively Spain Arabs and Aztecs (China if I know the other will be Zulu or America) with both accounts and got both to the top 10 fairly easily. One got the re-set thing where it takes the points off you but leaves the record. The other is still in the top 10. Number 6 I think with a record like 115-15. That must mean I’m great (or cheat), right? Wrong.
    Lets just take a moment to break it down.

    Losses –I have had a look around here a little and it turns out most loss have come from people here. I forget which accounts I have played people on but it goes something like this, At least 2 from Blades, another 2 from Remo, 1 from Chief RocKa and possibly LiamSutty and Digitalpackrat (may have been different account) a couple from accidental freeze, a couple from Zulu walk-ins and the rest just bad starts I could not recover. Those loses are just the flash account, there are more (lots) on other accounts.

    I have never quit out a 4000bc freeze simply because I do not think I caused them. I have never quit a bad start unless the opponent shows me they know how to win. I have only had one person freeze the game on me I think that I waited out. In the hundred odd games no one has pulled the stunt where they take your city in 1 move and until recently no one has great wall glitched. Lots of people hitting pause early though I think to beat the barbarians. And lots not giving peace in democracy, but I guess you learn to live with it.

    Ok now the wins. Approximately 10:1 winning ratio. Looks great. But lets dig deeper.
    I know how to move and take another city in ten turns. Opponent quits. 20? Free wins.
    I know how to build a horse army in ten or fifteen moves, opponent sees it and quits. That’s us up to 25? Free wins.
    Zulu opponent can’t kill you in first 20 turns, quits. That’s us at 35 wins.
    Egypt opponent does not get the colossus of Rhodes. Quits. 40 wins.
    Spain does not find a whale. 45 wins. You get the picture.
    So nearly half my wins all I need to do is settle my city. Really? What’s up with these players? It’s basically how I learned to play –losing but not quitting. See how the other player wins.

    That still leaves around 60 wins but the truth is I’m using good civs.
    Maybe half of those games I had to fight for. In the other half the opponent just plays on without actually doing anything. They think they can maybe just force me to quit because they have 12 tech and I have 3, I don’t know? But build a few cites and before they know it it’s 20-14 to me and they just quit. So in reality my win/loss ratio should be around 3-1. The players who beat me are the one who actually attack me. Should be obvious, but it seems a lost point on most.

    The good players I have played the most (on various accounts) are Remo18 Digitalpackrat and Blades not far behind. I have had some good games with remo sadly only winning when I have the civ advantage or get the 7 cities of gold. I think I only got my first win against digital very recently in ffa and I sure I only got the better of blades once.
    If my ratio was against these players I think it would turn from 10:1 into about 1:5

    On my 3rd account, I started out using France Mongols and Russians exclusively (now though just pick from lots of civs. Mongols are just too tough against Aztecs Zulu etc. Egypt also give me a tough time because they get irrigation too fast). I got this one up to number 25 at one point but that also got a points re-set keeping the w/l numbers. I think this is around 150-75, but i play on this if short of time etc. Strip out the games where I had to quit for time and the freezes (like 4000bc ones and re-synch) probably brings me back to the 3-1 above.

    So am I any good? Probably not the best question to answer for yourself, but I’m certainly not as bad as 75% of players out there.

    On a different note, I have just recently started playing FFA. (first thing I notice is the amount of freezes (that don’t look like anyones fault) and the amount of games that don’t register between 10-20% –Does everyone find this) Whatever, I’ll need to work on it a bit I think and change my style. Played 4 yesterday. The first was my Spain against 2 chinese and a zulu. I placed my city with no grass (or whale) and it screwed me. I do this all the time in H2H, but 100g is not quite as easy to come by in FFA. Zulu player found me early and I never really recovered. One Chinese quit and the other did nothing. I’m sure If I had got my 100g 20 turns earlier or had grass to build a settler I could have won because the zulu only had 2 caps and 100g city. Very frustrating watching him win that one. I won the next 3 as China, Spain, Spain, but two did not register. I think it be the way the other quits, but not sure

  2. #2
    Oh sorry. Thats probably too big

  3. #3
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    I kind of skimmed over the post... don't worry about people calling you a cheat. 10-1 W/L is totally achievable. I've got into the top ten with over 10-1 using Russian only and I've won over 100 in a row with Aztecs. This was a couple years ago when I think there was more "bad" players but still, it can be done as long as you luck out and don't get a close Zulu or good America player.

    It seems like it really is bothering you that someone called you a cheat. I would add a bunch of us to your friends list, play some player matches with us, and join the next tournament. That reputation will quickly fade.

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    I must admit...I have eyed your record with some suspicion... I even commented in a thread somewhere that I think 'Flash/Brent' may have made a return, while not actually naming a GT because I wasn't sure, but Grizz (Blades) quickly cleared that up.

    Welcome to the forums BTW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackHall2003 View Post
    I must admit...I have eyed your record with some suspicion... I even commented in a thread somewhere that I think 'Flash/Brent' may have made a return, while not actually naming a GT because I wasn't sure, but Grizz (Blades) quickly cleared that up.

    Welcome to the forums BTW.
    A good point. There was a notorious cheater that had "Flash" in his gamertag and he has at several accounts. He played Aztec only. So that is likely the cause of a lot of speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Bang Over View Post
    Egypt opponent does not get the colossus of Rhodes. Quits.
    Funny. The worst thing about these guys if you are playing for points is that they are invariably ranked down below the 500's. Lucky to get a point for their auto-quit, but hit for 30 points if they strike gold and land colossus with 5 desert tiles and a river

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    "They think they can maybe just force me to quit because they have 12 tech and I have 3, I don't know? But build a few cites and before they know it it's
    20-14 to me and they just quit."

    You had me fooled a few weeks back. I thought you were a newbie and focused on killing the other AI's while having a good time. By the time I took your first city with knights from my galleon I didn't even bother to check out your tech score. Big mistake. Baam, you hit right back with your spanish cruiserfleet and CA. I didn't quit though, but had to a few turns later. Next time I'll hunt you down

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    Now the question is, what are the names of your other 2 accounts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RamblerMan View Post
    Now the question is, what are the names of your other 2 accounts?
    Are you talking to Flash Bang......his other accounts are both fair play......Ive played him on both

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzleyTigers4 View Post
    Are you talking to Flash Bang......his other accounts are both fair play......Ive played him on both
    Thanks for speaking up. But I just played someone else who writes here and he is convinced I cheated. I took a barb while he was getting veteran. I hate when someone does this to me and I tried to explain it was accident. I just saw the x as I pressed the button but it gave me a galley still. I didn't move it or take gold but still it stopped him using it so I suppose its fair he feels cheated. Maybe I should have quit the game then but was looking forward to a tough one. It was tough but I lucked out in the end. If you want the points just find me again and you can have all the free wins you want. I really dont care anymore.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RamblerMan View Post
    Now the question is, what are the names of your other 2 accounts?
    Lock n load 88
    justmeg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Bang Over View Post
    But I just played someone else who writes here and he is convinced I cheated. I took a barb while he was getting veteran. I hate when someone does this to me and I tried to explain it was accident. I just saw the x as I pressed the button but it gave me a galley still. I didn't move it or take gold but still it stopped him using it so I suppose its fair he feels cheated. Maybe I should have quit the game then but was looking forward to a tough one. It was tough but I lucked out in the end. If you want the points just find me again and you can have all the free wins you want. I really dont care anymore.
    Most people, including people here, are about as statistically & mathematically sound as a sack of rocks, even though many have college educations. In other words, they are ego-driven & undisciplined. So they make claims of cheating across an unreliable channel with unreliable software in unreliable hardware with an anonymous opponent based on a completely non-statistically significant sample size & call it "truth" or "fact". They will even post such nonsense on here. I've had it happen to me on multiple occasions.

    This is much like real life so you're taking the right approach: Just play fairly consistently, admit your faults when make them & try to make it right, & move on. It's absolutely pointless & a waste of time to live for others, especially in a video game.

    best regards,
    Pedal2Metal

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    I was just curious as to the other GTs because of the similarity of your GT to a very notorious cheater's. It really has zero impact on me anyway, I haven't played in a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RamblerMan View Post
    I was just curious as to the other GTs because of the similarity of your GT to a very notorious cheater's. It really has zero impact on me anyway, I haven't played in a year.
    Yea no need to go there we have hashed that out about 5 times in 5 different threads including this one......you know what the say about ASSumptions right.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Bang Over View Post
    Lock n load 88
    justmeg
    Wow, I played you quite a lot. Mostly on those two accounts. For some reason, I remember your "Lock n Load" account to be your strongest ;-)

  16. #16
    Yes we have played lots. I dont understand smiley? You have beat me more on that name?

    Our most recent was my flash account. India against france. You played really well with your usual early onslaught but I got the great pyramid that saved me.
    I mostly lose but always like playing you because at least we have some battles.

  17. #17
    And what I remember most is you always beat me at button racing.

  18. #18
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    I put the smiley there b/c it is unlikely that you play stronger on one account than on the others (except maybe for civ choice).

    The India/France game I remember. I settled Paris in a non-growth spot. You had Rome and Delhi separated by a hill and enough room to expand behind it. I lost my HA against very good odds to the Arabs, otherwise I would have been able to put much more pressure on you and probably would have broken through that nasty hill choke point w/ my elite armies (GL). The way the continent was shaped was also good for you since I could not really get to you by galley unnoticed. So I had to attack the choke point eventually. Was a good game.
    Last edited by REM018; 05-02-2012 at 04:45 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedal2Metal View Post
    Most people, including people here, are about as statistically & mathematically sound as a sack of rocks, even though many have college educations. In other words, they are ego-driven & undisciplined. So they make claims of cheating across an unreliable channel with unreliable software in unreliable hardware with an anonymous opponent based on a completely non-statistically significant sample size & call it "truth" or "fact". They will even post such nonsense on here. I've had it happen to me on multiple occasions.

    This is much like real life so you're taking the right approach: Just play fairly consistently, admit your faults when make them & try to make it right, & move on. It's absolutely pointless & a waste of time to live for others, especially in a video game.

    best regards,
    Pedal2Metal

    I guess I agree but in reality... We have all one way or another cheated someone for victory in ranked... Not realizing it or do but just don't believe it is cheating. We people find ways to bend the rules... Funny it even comes down to video games such as a GW deny or democracy refused request for audience. I till 8 months ago really though that taking a barb from someone while there upgrading was not cheating if I was working on that particular barb first. It comes down now to what someone considers cheating logically.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiPlayaBeast View Post
    I guess I agree but in reality... We have all one way or another cheated someone for victory in ranked... Not realizing it or do but just don't believe it is cheating. We people find ways to bend the rules... Funny it even comes down to video games such as a GW deny or democracy refused request for audience. I till 8 months ago really though that taking a barb from someone while there upgrading was not cheating if I was working on that particular barb first. It comes down now to what someone considers cheating logically.
    I think cheating is more black and white....if you have to rationalize why something isnt cheating then it probably is.....but yea....I guarantee everyone has glitched once by mistake.....especially the barb glitch....I remember the first time somebody stole my barb reward I was pissed...I saw the demo glitch used and couldnt figure out how they didnt do peace.....then I tried the demo glitch myself....till I came to the forum a few weeks later and realized it was cheating.
    Last edited by GrizzleyTigers4; 05-03-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiPlayaBeast View Post
    [...] I till 8 months ago really though that taking a barb from someone while there upgrading was not cheating if I was working on that particular barb first. It comes down now to what someone considers cheating logically.
    Just out of curiosity: I would like to hear a reason for why you thought that taking a barb that is not there anymore is not at least odd/unexpected behavior? You got a reward for stepping onto an empty tile ...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by REM018 View Post
    Just out of curiosity: I would like to hear a reason for why you thought that taking a barb that is not there anymore is not at least odd/unexpected behavior? You got a reward for stepping onto an empty tile ...
    I thought it was odd behavior yeah.... But in the end I felt too that the game was telling me... There is your chance to get what was yours in the first place. I used to think that if the developers allow a glitch to happen that it is mine to exploit. Everyone else was doing it... Why not me.

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