Different loadout

[Steelsky]

In the past when we loaded out our troops we had a full range of options, give everyone sniper rifles or missile launchers if we wanted.

How will they do it now that only certain prople can use certain weapons and ammo isn't an issue?

I think, to also make it easier for the console crowd, that the best way would be to have a drop down menu showing that options for that weapon slot, when we get more options just add to the list. If a certain weapon has been researched but it not yet available just have it grayed out to remind prople to build some.

Thoughts?

/Yks

[Zweistein000]

Ammo isn't an issue anymore? Then what's stopping me from sending in 20 heavy weapons specialists with rocket launchers and/ro gatling guns. X-Com without ammo is like mechwarrior with no heat. It just isn't the same and some weapons become very OP.

[Alucardex]

Ammo isn't an issue anymore? Then what's stopping me from sending in 20 heavy weapons specialists with rocket launchers and/ro gatling guns. X-Com without ammo is like mechwarrior with no heat. It just isn't the same and some weapons become very OP.

Please read the threads about ammo. Rocket launchers still have limited ammo and normal weapons still need to be reloaded.
We already discussed that in other threads.

[katscan]

Please read the threads about ammo. Rocket launchers still have limited ammo and normal weapons still need to be reloaded.
We already discussed that in other threads.

Ya discussed ad nauseum. Also probably in the XCom sticky on information we know .

[BCD917]

Ammo isn't an issue anymore? Then what's stopping me from sending in 20 heavy weapons specialists with rocket launchers and/ro gatling guns. X-Com without ammo is like mechwarrior with no heat. It just isn't the same and some weapons become very OP.

Well a squad limit of 6 for one.
And with the hidden perk system, it may be quite possible to have upto 6 HW specialists, although unlikely.

[Inkidu]

Well a squad limit of 6 for one.
And with the hidden perk system, it may be quite possible to have upto 6 HW specialists, although unlikely.

Also the cap for rockets is very low, and the likelihood of a heavy hitting anything with his LMG is probably less than an assault rifle. The devs have thought about it, and who knows where it is now.

[katscan]

From the gameplay video, it looks like you have unlimited amounts of the basic LMG, Shotgun, Assault rifle, and Sniper rifle. (A small infinite sign underneath the weapons at base)

[Alucardex]

From the gameplay video, it looks like you have unlimited amounts of the basic LMG, Shotgun, Assault rifle, and Sniper rifle. (A small infinite sign underneath the weapons at base)

They already said that and there is another thread discussing ammo.
Normal weapons have unlimited ammo, but still need to be reloaded.
Weapons like the rocket launcher have limited ammo.

[katscan]

I know. I made the thread on ammo. Not talking about ammo. Talking about weapons, how class locked they are, setting up soldier loadouts, and if weapons need to be produced.

[b15h09]

My understanding is that any class is equally viable. It's come up in the argument of hidden classes, and the justification seems to be that classes don't really matter, all are combat capable. Leads me to believe that the only thing required to win is bringing soldiers and using cover. Hopefully there's more to it, but modern games do encourage winning.

[Gen_Pho]

My understanding is that any class is equally viable. It's come up in the argument of hidden classes, and the justification seems to be that classes don't really matter, all are combat capable. Leads me to believe that the only thing required to win is bringing soldiers and using cover. Hopefully there's more to it, but modern games do encourage winning.

Or means that each soldier have their own advantage so it is not necessary to bring a heavy to win because support soldiers have their own strengths. This does not mean atuo win at all.

[b15h09]

Maybe not. It does mean there's no right or wrong tool for the jobs at hand, just better tools, making various roles largely inconsequential.

[katscan]

Or means that each soldier have their own advantage so it is not necessary to bring a heavy to win because support soldiers have their own strengths. This does not mean atuo win at all.

edit - My post above, with weapon assignments and the infinite sign refers to the view inside the base, when you are assigning weapons to your soldiers..

Yea I agree with GenPho. I just think that it means all are viable choices with certain strengths. My biggest worry on 'soldier loadout' was that something like the sniper would be essentially 'locked' to a sniper rifle, which thankfully is not the case. In other words, if we are going on a mission that will have confined quarters, I want to be able to reassign the sniper with something useful, not a long range weapon. On a sadder note, the screens seem to show that the shotgun -is- class locked... a stupid decision in my mind since its not THAT specialized of a weapon. Anyone should be ablet to equip it but related special perks limited to the assault class.

Again, I don't want to see Baldur's Gate 3, The Aliens where my Archer (sniper) cannot equip a sword.. this isn't a fantasy game.

[b15h09]

Again, I don't want to see Baldur's Gate 3, The Aliens where my Archer (sniper) cannot equip a sword.. this isn't a fantasy game.

Agreed, not a fantasy game. I really don't want to see a shotgun working well against heavy alien armor. Unless you've equipped appropriate ammo for the job.

[Gen_Pho]

Maybe not. It does mean there's no right or wrong tool for the jobs at hand, just better tools, making various roles largely inconsequential.

Are you saying you really want a 'right' tools for missions like "kill all the aliens on the map?" That was something I really liked about X-Com, you could fight the battles as you wished. This doesn't make roles inconsequential, it just makes a wider variety of strategies viable.

[b15h09]

I'm saying if I'm against armor, I want penetrating weapons to be necessary. If I'm against swarms of weak enemies, I want those penetrating weapons to be fairly worthless. Enter support with shotty.

[Gen_Pho]

I'm saying if I'm against armor, I want penetrating weapons to be necessary. If I'm against swarms of weak enemies, I want those penetrating weapons to be fairly worthless. Enter support with shotty.

Well I would think that different classes all have different options to deal with armor penetration or spread fire, although I guess I don't know how the snipers would deal with swarms. There are always grenades...

[Alucardex]

I'm saying if I'm against armor, I want penetrating weapons to be necessary. If I'm against swarms of weak enemies, I want those penetrating weapons to be fairly worthless. Enter support with shotty.

Hell NO! This leads to the boring rock, paper scissors kind of gameplay that most weaker rts games use.
With this it just comes down to picking the right soldiers before battle making the mission itself completely boring.

[b15h09]

If overdone, yeah, boring. I'm not saying that sectoids should only be vulnerable to assault bullets or something. I am saying that when that cyberdisk shows up, and your assaults bullets are ricocheting off, you're really glad you haven't used your heavy's rocket yet. Nothing wrong with spicing things up with special cases where there is a right tool. If everyone can do everything, I'll find that equally as boring.

[DP1982SK]

If overdone, yeah, boring. I'm not saying that sectoids should only be vulnerable to assault bullets or something. I am saying that when that cyberdisk shows up, and your assaults bullets are ricocheting off, you're really glad you haven't used your heavy's rocket yet. Nothing wrong with spicing things up with special cases where there is a right tool. If everyone can do everything, I'll find that equally as boring.

I would not mind some 'realism'. I mean. it's highly unlikely that bullets will penetrate alien heavy armor, but it's also rather pointless to aim that huge anti-tank gun against something small, fast and nimble... (accuracy penalty?)

[katscan]

Agreed, full on rock-paper-scissors gameplay doesn't have a place in Xcom.. Like GenPho, I like flexibility in how to approach an encounter. I am happy that my sniper wont be useless if I dont want him packing a sniper rifle this mission. Weaknesses are fine, as long as they are not overdone. And as someone mentioned, I don't want to see weapons, esp. shotgun, reduced to 'its a special weapon so we will give it high damage at close range no matter what the enemy armor is'. Although we still dont know exactly how armor works.

[b15h09]

I agree, flexibility is a must. My concern is that things are SO flexible that the choices you make are mostly inconsequential. Choice without consequence really isn't a choice. You SHOULD be able to bork your loadout/troop selection bad enough that you're going to fail your mission before it even begins. If you can't then they're not really giving you choices.

[katscan]

True b15, it has to be a fine balance so it doesn't end up rock-paper-scissors but at the same time your choices dont become irrelevant.