Request to Devs !: [poll] User-assignable Medals !

[katscan]

Hi guys

This shouldn't be too difficult, but what do you guys think about the developers adding in the possibility of medals after a mission?

Specifically, what I am thinking is a system like Silent Hunter, or the original M1 Tank Platoon, whereby after a successful mission, your squad would be able to earn medals for a particularly good performance.

The player could then give out the earned medals to whoever they wanted in that mission (to allow further attachment/customization of soldiers). Some medals could be user-assignable (such as for bravery, etc) whereas some medals could be computer assigned, like for being wounded or for serving in 5 missions (like a tour of duty sort of thing).

Now the medals need not confer additional benefits to units, they could just simply be a decorative item that helps build emotional connections with the soldiers. That wouldn't mess up the balance of the game.

However, medals should be relatively difficult to get, not just something that you could 'farm' by sending in one guy on a mission to try to get the Congr. Medal of Hnr or whatever. The idea would be that even after 20 missions, your guy wouldn't be a walking trophy case, but perhaps have 3-4 medals for their experiences.

[SectoidSquisher]

Definitely - you are the Xcom Commander after all. Also, let us name and design what they look like as well.

@Gazz - The Purple Ass. Ha ha ha ha!!!

Edit: Who voted that it's cheesy? What's cheesy about being able to give those deserving troopers medals? It happens in the real world, y'know...

[katscan]

LOL I know, I wish I turned off anonymous voting.. I bet it was Gen-Pho.. always trying to start trouble, that one.

[Gen_Pho]

No! I voted yes. I think I seconded whoever originally mentioned it...oathbreaker?

[BCD917]

Definitely - you are the Xcom Commander after all. Also, let us name and design what they look like as well.

Go figure, the X-com commander has his hands tied when deploying # of troops, but can hand out medals ad nauseum. Well this is the Military as per Firaxis...

I would say, in most Military Hierarchies there is a board of Officers who determine who gets what and has plenty of red-tape, and would not be at the discretion of the the X-com Commander, so i would have to say no.

[Gazz]

Edit: Who voted that it's cheesy?

I did.

Unit commanders may issue medal recommendations but that's only the start of a long, boring process and totally unsuited for an instaclick reward after a mission.

Just as cheesy as unit advancements by level-up-buying super-critical perks like Heavy Weapons or Heavy Armour like in... was it Aftermath?
Since pretty much everyone needed things like that for survival and firepower, it wasn't much of a choice. Unchoices are bad. Very bad.

[Oathbreaker]

Go figure, the X-com commander has his hands tied when deploying # of troops, but can hand out medals ad nauseum. Well this is the Military as per Firaxis...

I would say, in most Military Hierarchies there is a board of Officers who determine who gets what and has plenty of red-tape, and would not be at the discretion of the the X-com Commander, so i would have to say no.

Number of troops to deploy is a function of:
Room onboard transport.
Mission (do you really want to bring 15 people on a stealth recon patrol?)
Training
Availability
Gear

On-Topic: I just don't want User-Assigned Medals to turn into perks or accelerated Xp that you can give out willy-nilly to whomever you feel the need to improve. It should only accrue to someone who happens to perform something extraordinary - which still leaves open the path of "Hey, this guy needs some medals or Xp or Kills or [insert performance metric] - so I'll just make sure he gets the kills or most of the action on this sortie."

The latter I'm fine with - some of it is just smart play as long as it's not too easily taken overboard (to each their own, how you play is your business), and most missions should probably be hard enough or time-pressured enough that you can't just run one "Rambo guy" ahead to kill all the aliens just to game the Xp system.

[Gen_Pho]

I was hoping for a medal system that doesn't really help the Soldier's stats at all. Medals would just makes him/her more bad-ass and remind you of times when he/she was really on his/her game. I guess some people would probably think that would make medals just useless ego-metal, which would be....T/F?

[katscan]

Yea.. that's what I would be looking for too. Medals simply as a something to further personalize your soldiers WITHOUT giving cheesey stat or XP boosts.

[tazong]

In xcom apocalypse you had medals - i suppose they did not really mean anything apart from being nice eye candy to look at to go with your stats.Could never figure out why certain medals were awarded but medals are a good thing - would be nicer if when they are awarded and you know what they are for.
Talking of which here are 2 of my best troops - no cheating - if my troops died they stayed dead - no cheat saves.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/tazong/xcom2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/tazong/xcom1-1.jpg

[SectoidSquisher]

Go figure, the X-com commander has his hands tied when deploying # of troops, but can hand out medals ad nauseum. Well this is the Military as per Firaxis...

Good point...

[Aknazer]

In xcom apocalypse you had medals - i suppose they did not really mean anything apart from being nice eye candy to look at to go with your stats.Could never figure out why certain medals were awarded but medals are a good thing - would be nicer if when they are awarded and you know what they are for.
Talking of which here are 2 of my best troops - no cheating - if my troops died they stayed dead - no cheat saves.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/tazong/xcom2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/tazong/xcom1-1.jpg

The Apoc medals were awarded based off of invisible points. I don't remember the exact breakdown (you can find it on UFOpedia.org), but basically things like kills, days served, etc all increased the point count of the soldier. I believe the last medal required something like 500 points, while to get up to 4 medals only required something like 250 points. And the medals did nothing but basically show off how much of a bad ass the soldier was.


For the poll I voted for "No." I would have gone for the "it's cheesy" bit, but I don't think it's completely against what XCOM stands for so I didn't pick that one. I would love medals, especially if they expanded the system compared to Apoc, but I don't think the player should be able to award them. That would cause various people to simply load up all of the selectable medals on a single character which would be cheesy, and personally I don't want to have to micro-manage medals or try to remember who did what to give them the proper medals. Simply have a system that awards medals based off of various actions in battle, but have the medals do nothing in regards to stats.

Though I do think medals should help determine who gets promoted when promotions are available. Someone who has done a bunch of things and has a bunch of medals should get the promotion over the guy who has hardly done anything. And while that is how it "normally" works in the previous games, I've seen cases where a guy gets promoted who almost never does anything but on that one particular mission where promotions are available he does a few actions and magically gets promoted over the person who has like 30-50 more kills and highly improved stats because the better soldier didn't do much that mission (usually because the other person happened to be at just the right place to kill a few aliens while the better soldier wasn't at the right place/right time for kills).

[Goodfeller]

I voted yes.

They had a similar feature in Incubation which I enjoyed very much. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2yfVeFEjJ8

In this game, Medals won could be used to advance a character's skillset.

I don't believe medals should be awarded by the player however. Rather it's the game itself that should make the awards based on whoever it considers deserving of such honour.

[Zweistein000]

I have conflicting feelings about this. Medals that don't give bonuses are cool, but can get annoying and waste development time, medals that give bonuses aren't very X-COM like, but seeing that we are getting agent classes and some other stuff never before seen in X-COM, I'd say I'm up for it.

[simoco]

Ranks are already evolving with performences in combat. Why would you want to add a layer with medals?
Why not do the ceremony for fallen soldiers also ?

Do not add too much... It seems just fine as it is...

[babis]

No, as it's biased as hell. You should earn medals/ranks/whatever based on your performance and what happens, not use them as a resource to attach more to your soldiers allowing stuff like "oh my super-awesome John 'AlienMeatGrinder' Snake got his ass kicked, but I think he was really valuable, so let's give him a medal". Allows for pure favoritism, and it's against the whole actions->consequences principle. Of course who am I to tell you what to do with your soldiers, but sounds useless imo.

I'd rather have (automatically assigned) achievements per soldier (killed 50 aliens, survived with 1hp, punched a muton to death), in the form of medals or whatever.

[Severene]

I originally voted yes but think that instead of the commander giving out medals it should be based on performance and auto issued.

[Alucardex]

I like the idea, but I don't want them to waste time on something so useless when they probably have more important balancing stuff to do.
They could patch it in as day 1 update, though.

[SectoidSquisher]

No, as it's biased as hell. You should earn medals/ranks/whatever based on your performance and what happens, not use them as a resource to attach more to your soldiers allowing stuff like "oh my super-awesome John 'AlienMeatGrinder' Snake got his ass kicked, but I think he was really valuable, so let's give him a medal". Allows for pure favoritism, and it's against the whole actions->consequences principle. Of course who am I to tell you what to do with your soldiers, but sounds useless imo.

Well, if you're going to use it just to show favouritism towards a particular soldier, that's your poor lookout. I'd use it to award medals to those who deserved them. It's only 'biased as hell' if you allow it to be.

[babis]

Well, if you're going to use it just to show favouritism towards a particular soldier, that's your poor lookout. I'd use it to award medals to those who deserved them. It's only 'biased as hell' if you allow it to be.

If you wouldn't bias it, then let the computer do it, those things are pretty good at unbiased decisions based on number crunching

[SectoidSquisher]

But it's not as much fun as deciding for yourself that a soldier has earned an award and handing it out to them personally.

[babis]

But it's not as much fun as deciding for yourself that a soldier has earned an award and handing it out to them personally.

Nah, to me this feature sounds similar to assigning yourself a score at the end of a level of a platform game

[SectoidSquisher]

Can't agree with that - they're two entirely different things.

[babis]

Can't agree with that - they're two entirely different things.

Why *entirely* different? They're both effectively "Cosmetic bragging rights based on performance evaluation by the player".

[Gen_Pho]

What's wrong with some bragging rights?

Maybe it would be better if the award was awarded automagically. I definitely want purple hears for soldiers who get serious injuries.

Maybe once a month I can give a "soldier of the month" award out.

[BCD917]

What's wrong with some bragging rights?

Maybe it would be better if the award was awarded automagically. I definitely want purple hears for soldiers who get serious injuries.

Maybe once a month I can give a "soldier of the month" award out.

You still can, get some GI Joe action figures, stand them at attention on your desk and award them medals at your discretion. As for bragging rights, you are the X-com Commander, you are also the Soldier in question and the Soldiers to being bragged to. Just use your imagination.

[babis]

What's wrong with some bragging rights?

Maybe it would be better if the award was awarded automagically. I definitely want purple hears for soldiers who get serious injuries.

Maybe once a month I can give a "soldier of the month" award out.

I think that the player being able to award the bragging rights is lame. Control the shape/colour/flag/pattern/type/object of the award, that's fine, but .. awarding it to yourself?

I don't know, this mentality feels .. alien to me

[Inkidu]

Eh... I don't know if I like this idea. I've been mulling it around for a while and I think it's awfully superfluous. I wouldn't mind metals that were automatically awarded to your troops for doing certain things. Like, for instance, a soldier getting X number of kills, or taking X number of wounds and surviving, a medal of honor that could be awarded for killing two aliens while wounded (no treatment)--it could even be posthumous.

Taking a wound and surviving gets you a purple heart, a kill shot made with less than twenty five percent chance to hit would get you something. I just think handing them out would be pointless and designing them would have to implement a whole ton of elements.

[Being]

Automatically awarded medals that don't offer bonuses to soldier, thanks.

I don't want to be "achievement-hunting" when I'm supposed to be winning battles and I also don't want to spend time giving medals (through game mechanics, I'll always have the option of doing that in my mind or for an AAR or something) that have no effect. Giving medals that have an effect would make them a character progression tool and the minmaxer in me would be unleashed.

[Inkidu]

Automatically awarded medals that don't offer bonuses to soldier, thanks.

I don't want to be "achievement-hunting" when I'm supposed to be winning battles and I also don't want to spend time giving medals (through game mechanics) that have no effect. Giving medals that have an effect would make them a character progression tool and the minmaxer in me would be unleashed.

True, if they're going to be smart with achievements. X number of kills might work, but they would really have to focus on emphasizing different ways to play, not just arbitrary counts.

[Gen_Pho]

You still can, get some GI Joe action figures, stand them at attention on your desk and award them medals at your discretion. As for bragging rights, you are the X-com Commander, you are also the Soldier in question and the Soldiers to being bragged to. Just use your imagination.

You say this like playing with digital toys is really soooo different than playing with little dolls. Lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously.

[Gen_Pho]

I think that the player being able to award the bragging rights is lame. Control the shape/colour/flag/pattern/type/object of the award, that's fine, but .. awarding it to yourself?

I don't know, this mentality feels .. alien to me

I don't think you are awarding yourself, it is marking a soldier for an achievement. Sure you are in some control, but most of the rookies missed while one actually hits its targets. He should be promoted and decorated. You all know that people do get medals in real life right? They are not based off of steam achievements.

[babis]

I don't think you are awarding yourself, it is marking a soldier for an achievement.

The soldier, that you get to fully control. So, you *are* awarding yourself.

Sure you are in some control, but most of the rookies missed while one actually hits its targets. He should be promoted and decorated.

Why let the awarding process under your control and bias it? Easy for the computer to figure that out. shots_hit / shots_total.

You all know that people do get medals in real life right? They are not based off of steam achievements.

Don't give me that now. People in RL don't give medals to themselves, cause there you get to play 1 person, and in a given situation you're either the giver (e.g. general) or the taker (e.g. soldier). You're don't get to be the general who awards the medal to the soldier that you *also* were.

I don't disagree with the awards/achievements. On the contrary, I'd find cosmetic achievements fun. I disagree with the process being user-controlled.

[Gen_Pho]

The soldier, that you get to fully control. So, you *are* awarding yourself.



Why let the awarding process under your control and bias it? Easy for the computer to figure that out. shots_hit / shots_total.



Don't give me that now. People in RL don't give medals to themselves, cause there you get to play 1 person, and in a given situation you're either the giver (e.g. general) or the taker (e.g. soldier). You're don't get to be the general who awards the medal to the soldier that you *also* were.

I don't disagree with the awards/achievements. On the contrary, I'd find cosmetic achievements fun. I disagree with the process being user-controlled.

Yea and I already agreed that mostly computer awarded medals were more appropriate and probably more fun. (post #25)

I also don't see why occasionally putting "stud" label on a specific soldier yourself would be that horrible. Sure you controlled the soldier that gets that "recognition" (yes from yourself, but only for yourself as well), but you are singling him/her out from all of the other soldiers who you also controlled. Also note that I'm not arguing for this like it is really important to the game or anything, this is hard to convey on the internet. I don't think it is necessary, just that it would be fun. Fun in the same way that some people want to customize haircuts of soldiers...something I've personally never found entertaining but understand.

[katscan]

I disagree.. Since you are the commander of a multinational secret force (not one of the soldiers), you presumably have no higher authority (or at least no one micromanaging your decisions) so I am pretty sure, that within your unit, you would be able to assign medals for valor. And having only computer assigned medals doesn't work particularily well for everything since the computer cannot calculate abstract things such as risking your life or doing something brave. Thats why I think there are some that should be computer controlled (purple heart, combat tour of duty, perhaps marksman related stuff) but others such as the higher level medals, be 'available' if your unit does particularly well, and then you can decide who in your outfit truly performed above and beyond.

In RL, you don't earn the congressional medal of honor for only having a high kill rate.

And yes, I mean this from a totally cosmetic standpoint. And having user assigned medals adds to customization, as opposed to computer assigned medals, where you are essentially not involved (Xcom Apoc) and may not even notice your guy has a medal (or care) until much later because there was no player involvement.

[babis]

Yea and I already agreed that mostly computer awarded medals were more appropriate and probably more fun. (post #25)

I also don't see why occasionally putting "stud" label on a specific soldier yourself would be that horrible. Sure you controlled the soldier that gets that "recognition" (yes from yourself, but only for yourself as well), but you are singling him/her out from all of the other soldiers who you also controlled. Also note that I'm not arguing for this like it is really important to the game or anything, this is hard to convey on the internet. I don't think it is necessary, just that it would be fun. Fun in the same way that some people want to customize haircuts of soldiers...something I've personally never found entertaining but understand.

Sure, I think we agree overall, I'm just (quite) a bit more pro-"facilitate the process if possible". Looks (haircuts, body type and stuff) can't be modified by your play (scars perhaps could), so it's perfectly natural to let you tinker with those. Performance awards are something that could be done unbiased and very well by the computer, and the player can get the warm and fuzzy feeling that he/she *earned* it, instead of assigning awards to oneself, which imo sucks the fun of the process to the void and further.

[Gen_Pho]

Sure, I think we agree overall, I'm just (quite) a bit more pro-"facilitate the process if possible". Looks (haircuts, body type and stuff) can't be modified by your play (scars perhaps could), so it's perfectly natural to let you tinker with those. Performance awards are something that could be done unbiased and very well by the computer, and the player can get the warm and fuzzy feeling that he/she *earned* it, instead of assigning awards to oneself, which imo sucks the fun of the process to the void and further.

Yea good points. I think we agree that medals for soldiers should be in though yea?

[babis]

Yea good points. I think we agree that medals for soldiers should be in though yea?

Hell yea! To quote myself:

I'd rather have (automatically assigned) achievements per soldier (killed 50 aliens, survived with 1hp, punched a muton to death), in the form of medals or whatever.

[Gen_Pho]

Sweet. I think we both deserve a medal for the rare internet forum agreement

[Jopo-80]

I have seen medals in several games and I agree that they would be fun and useful in this game as well.

I would like to emphasize that along with just about everything else, I would like this thing to be modable, so that everyone can make their own medals and add them to the game.

Since the soldiers have nationalities and presumably are part of their own nations militaries, then perhaps the medals should also be from different nations, that is a US soldier can get the Medal of Honour and a Russian soldier can get the Hero of the Russian Federation medal etc.

Whether the medals should have a bonus assigned to them, I don´t know. Does getting a marksmanship badge or medal make you a better shot? The medals are an acknowledgement of achievement, so it would be logical that you should give the sniper rifle to the soldier who is decorated for marksmanship.

Here are some suggestions for medals:

Marksmanship badge: computer awarded for marksmanship, criteria for medal can be modded.
Assault Badge: computer awarded for bravery in an assault, especially in close combat, e.g. killing an alien with a knife.
Purple Heart/Wound Badge: for sustaining an injury. In real life you get the purple heart for any injury I think, doesn´t have to be a mortal wound. This medal could have a bonus attached to it, like if the soldier loses some agility due to injury, he gets some willpower or Bravery in exchange. I don´t like the idea that injured soldiers become weak willed psi-puppets. If you survive a mortal wound your will should be stronger, not weaker, making survivors more valuable.
Bravery medals, like the Bronze and Silver Stars etc. could be awarded for soldiers who don´t panic in a dangerous situation or resist psionics etc.

Player could make recommendations for medals, for example you could mark a soldier for the Silver Star and giving the recommendation would increase the soldiers likelyhood of getting that medal significantly.

There´s my two bits worth.