Cool ideas!Originally Posted by JFD
Frederick Barbarossa was HRE, so I'm not comfortable with that choice...Not sure if it's very fitting. We have Frederick the second on the list anyway.
Cool ideas!
Frederick Barbarossa was HRE, so I'm not comfortable with that choice...Not sure if it's very fitting. We have Frederick the second on the list anyway.
Ehh.. don't really need more civilizations once G&K comes out. With DLC, that will be 34 total civs. They will probably release a couple more civ DLC's to bring it to a more even number.
What I'm hoping for (that I believe is a possibility)
1.) Corporations (expand the economic side of things)
2.) Government
3.) Rework policy tree to have synergy with government
4.) Future Era
5.) Rework Happiness to be local again
6.) Natural disasters, sickness, ect (add an RNG factor)
That's all I can think of for now..
Edit:
7.) Maybe add multi leaders for civilizations again
Ok, this is what the main post for this idea looks like now:
Second Leaders - an idea for both a second Civ 5 expansion pack, and Civ 6.
Here's the list of civs and current leaders with secondary leader suggestions and ideas for them:
Civ 5 vanilla
America - Washington / Abraham Lincoln, or Franklin D. Roosevelt Republic, or die!: Spies get a higher rate of success when attempting to install friendly governments in City-States.
Arabia - Harun al-Rashid / Saladin, or Abu Bakr Abu Bakr: Random Great person gifted at the dawn of every new era.
Aztec - Montezuma I / Naunhati
China - Empress Wu Zetian / Li Shimin (Tang Taizong), or Liu Bang, or Kangxi
Egypt - Ramesses II / Hatshepsut, or Menes, or Cleopatra
England - Queen Elizabeth / Queen Victoria, Edward III, or Winston Churchill Churchill - Albion's Last Stand: During times of defensive warfare, all production speeds are doubled for 20 turns.
Party Master: +3 permanent happiness in your empire, Culture boost ever time you finish a Policy [Culture boost large enough to start you on the next policy]
France - Napoleon Bonaparte / Louis XIV, or De Gaulle, or Philippe le Bel, or Charles VII, or Saint Louis CHARLES DE GAULLE - UA: Flame of the French Resistance. Spies are 10% more effective against civilizations you are at war with. Units heal 50% faster in friendly territory, cities heal 25% faster when garrisoned.
LOUIS XIV - UA: Flourish of the Arts: Gain a culture boost whenever a happiness or culture building is constructed. All wonders generate +2 culture, and those that produce great artist points produce 50% more.
MARIE ANTOINETTE
UA: Let Them Eat Cake. When citizens are starving, you don't get any of those really, really annoying notifications.
UU: Dragoon. Replaces lancer. Can receive defensive bonuses. Can't move after attacking.
UU: Grenadier. Replaces rifleman. Starts with the siege promotion.
UU: Cuirassier. Replaces cavalry. +25% defensive bonus vs melee units.
UU: Corsair. Replaces caravel. Bonus gold and no movement cost pillaging water resources.
UB: Cabaret. Replaces theatre. +3 Happiness, +1 culture for each 4 population.
Germany - Otto von Bismarck / Frederick II
Greece - Alexander the Great / Pericles, or Philip II, or Themistocles, or Epaminondas UA: Scholars and Thinkers: Each Great Person gives your Civ a permanent Science and Culture Boost.
Spartans: Replaces Swordsman, More expensive to build, Requires no Iron, Huge strength bonus.
Pericles - UA: Tactical War: Denounces do nothing, Pillaging does nothing, For every city taken by the enemy, the population is divided and moved to the surrounding cities.
UI: Colony: Can be built by a worker, Build 10 tiles from border and it is a improvement that gives you culture and gold, Useless when in your own territory, however still gives you bonuses in enemy territory.
Epam or Themi - UA: Military Hegemony: Units recieve extra XP and are built faster during wars. Great People give a city extra defense.
India - Mahatma Gandhi / Asoka, Akbar the Great
Iroquois - Hiawatha / Logan the Orator Wampum Council of the Six Nations: City States provide 2x their resources. May be resold to other Civs. City States provide a fraction of the gold (50%) they produce to you.
Japan - Oda Nobunaga / Tokugawa Ieyasu, or Meiji
Ottoman - Suleiman / Mehmed II, or Osman I, or Selim I Mehmed II, UA: Great Bombardments. Military seige units ignore enemy walls when attacking cities.
Osman I: The Sword of Osman: City-States which are of the same faith as you do not become hostile toward you. (Unless you declare war against them, probably).☺
UA: Foreign Governance: Allied City-States give +1 Happiness equivalent to half the number of cities under your control.
Persia - Darius I / Cyrus the Great
Rome - Augustus Caesar / Julius Caesar, or Marcus Aurelius, or Constantine the Great
Russia - Catherine the Great / Peter the Great, or Vladimir Lenin VLADIMIR LENIN, Red and Gold, Hammer and Sickle.
UA: People's Revolution: build settlers at half the cost, farms produce +2 food.
UA: Own the Means of Production: double production in all cities, double unhappiness in all cities.
Pick Two:
UU: Red Guard: Infantry. Same stats, half the cost. Fear me.
UU: Typhoon: replaces nuclear submarine. Not detectable by destroyers, just other submarines. Can carry 4 missiles, instead of two.
UU: Cossacks.
UB: Soviet Hall: replaces courthouse. Built at half the cost.
UB: Gulag/State Owned Factory: replaces factory, +2 unhappiness, +8 production. Workers improve tiles +10% faster in city radius. requires a railroad connection to capital.
UB: Kolkhoz: replaces monument. same bonuses as monument, +2 happiness.
UA: Enemy units gradually loose health every turn while in friendly territory.
Siam - Ramkhanhaeng / Mongkut
Songhai - Askia Muhammad I / Sonni Ali
DLCs
Babylon - Nebuchadnezzar II / Belshazzar, or Hammurabi
Denmark - Harald Bluetooth / Gorm the Old, or Margarethe I UA for Margarethe: Kalmar Union that would decrease unhappiness and/or length of protest from adding conquered cities to the empire.
Inca - Pachacuti / Mayta Capac, or Huayna Capac
Korea - Sejong / Gwanggaeto the Great, or Wang Kon, or Queen Seondeok
Mongolia - Genghis Khan / Kublai Khan
Polynesia - Kamehameha the Great / Te Rauparaha, or Wiremu Kingi Te Rauparaha - UA could be Dance of Utu: All military units gain a bonus against enemies you have previously been in a war against. Gain an additional bonus if you attack during a truce.
Spain - Isabella / Charles I
G&Ks
Austria - Maria Theresia / Franz Joseph I Trendy architecture: National Wonders built may be build a second time in another city.
Byzantium - Theodora / Justinian, or Basil II
Carthage - Dido / Hannibal
Celts - Boudicca / Robert the Bruce, or Vercingetorix, or Owain Glyndŵr, or Brian Boru Robert the Bruce UU: Schiltrom (or Shiltron, or however you want to spell it), a Pikeman replacement that's cheaper to build and has a extra defense bonus.
Ethiopia - Haile Selassie / Menelik II Lion of Judah: When founding a religion: May switch founder beliefs/follower beliefs for any religion in game and choose new beliefs for that religion. Each social policy adds +2 faith per city.
Huns - Attila the Hun / Dengizich, or Rugila
Maya - Pacal / Yohl Ik'nal The Dominion: City State allies produce more military units, and support in wars more regularly.
Netherlands - Willem Van Oranje / Wilhelmina, or Johan Rudolph Thorbecke
Sweden - Gustav Adolphus / Karl XII Karl XII: Master of the Winter Solstice: Military units attacking in tundra and snow tiles gain extra attack. Gain a one-time attack bonus against neutral City-States which lasts 10 turns.
UU: Leather Cannon. A unique cannon which has an extra movement point, but does less damage.
What UX should the second leaders have?
*We are working on the list so that the first name listed is the most ideal choice. This is a work in progress though...
Last edited by Hawk; 04-26-2012 at 12:53 AM.
That's fair to say. I'm just trying to think up another German leader, because most of the other European civs have mutiple alternatives.
Not sure who to match them with, but I just brain stormed a few ideas... (some of them are probably stupid, but I listed them as I thought of them)
Scouts move twice the distance, and have a bonus verses Barbarians.
If built a wonder, can build it one more time in a second city. (OP?)
Military units have a bonus fighting along river tiles, and coastal tiles.
The Dominion: City State allies produce more military units, and support you in wars better.
You are gifted a Great person of choice every new era.
Desert tiles give you +1 food. (too unrealistic?)
Workers are ranged units that can defend themselves. (this is more like a UU)
Your Golden Ages give enemy civs Dark Ages. (too far fetched?)
Enemy military units slowly loose health in your territory.
Luxury resources give you twice the bonus.
Anybody but Ying Zheng (Qin Shihuangdi) for China. He sucks. >:{
Li Shimin (Tang Taizong) or Liu Bang are best. Kangxi is ok, except he isn't Chinese.
Had an idea for Karl XII for a UA and UU:
Master of the Winter Solstice: Military units attacking in tundra and snow tiles gain extra attack. Gain a one-time attack bonus against neutral City-States which lasts 10 turns.
Karl IX won some hefty victories against Russia, by using the winter against them. He also had a reputation for attacking neutral states, such as Poland-Lithuania, so I thought he should get an attack bonus whenever he attacks a City-State that was neutral prior to the attack, which lasts X number of turns. This would only be a one-off bonus, against each City-State.
UU: Leather Cannon. A unique cannon which has an extra movement point, but does less damage.
I know that the Leather Cannon is Gustav's invention, but the Carolean was Karl's invention, so an inverted synergy is kinda cool.
How's this for a UA for the Iroquois - or someone else, but they came to mind as most appropriate:
Military units that are in defencive stance while in Forest tiles can only be attacked once per turn (so no gang bashing), and have a much higher retaliation when attacked.
1. Personally, I think a unique scout would do better here. The UA might otherwise be a little UP.
2. Could be OP, but the concept just bugs me. Perhaps this would be better for National Wonders.
3. This ones cool. I feel like theres a civ asking for this one, but I'm not sure which.
4. This one would definitely be good for something like Russia.
5. I love this one. But maybe it should be random, instead of chosen. I think Louis XIV might be a good one to get this, or Abu Bakr. France and the Middle East churn out great people pretty much always, rather than in isolated periods (like Austria, Germany or England).
6. I'm not sure which civ eats sand, but if there is one, this would be perfect.
7. Definitely a UU.
8. Could be a little too unique, depending upon how Dark Ages would work. Would be good for Rome under Constantine though.
9. Another very good Russian one. But I'm not sure it would suit Peter the Great, because he'd benefit from a more cultural UA. Alexander I was leader during the Napoleonic Wars of Russia, and of course Napoleon make the mistake of attacking Russia. But I think Alexander was more diplomatically skilled than militarily, because I remember a quote in which he asked Arthur Wellesley to save Europe from France.
10. Might end up being a different way of doing the Dutch's UA.
Also:
Osman I: The Sword of Osman: City-States which are of the same faith as you do not become hostile toward you. (Unless you declare war against them, probably).
For America: Republic, or die!: Spies get a higher rate of success when attempting to install friendly governments in City-States. - Maybe FDR, but most of the suitable Presidents might not be what your looking for in the list, such as Woodrow Wilson or LBJ.
For the Ottomans: Foreign Governance: Allied City-States give +1 Happiness equivalent to half the number of cities under your control - would be perfect for Suleiman, as Selim and Osman both are reputable military heroes, but not so much refined lawgivers. Refers to the fact that a good amount of Ottoman politicians and advisors were Greek. I can't think of any other Ottoman Sultans which are not reknown for their military careers or weren't incredible cruel/useless.
Last edited by JFD; 04-25-2012 at 02:19 AM.
I like that one. Most appropriate for the Iroquois.
And potentially game breaking. You could throw up a wall of scouts and it would take forever to get through into the city, more than enough time for the iroquois to either completely reinforce or bring in new units.
Also the CIA is really sloppy when trying to install Pro America governments
I concur. A perk like that breaks the mechanics of the game. They shouldn't have a UA that affects their adversaries' actions to oppose them. It also makes no sense.
I guess I should probably say that I personally don't like the idea of having secondary rulers in general, despite my post from earlier regarding China. I would rather they continue adding more civs.
Ah, but the key is to deify the Republican government, and from that others cite America as an example of political greatness. Thus, even if the CIA can't get the job done, internal citizens of non-Republican countries will for them.
And sure it could be gamebreaking, but it is a cool idea. Perhaps solve it by making it a unique version of Fortifcation called Entrencement, which comes with a penalty to defence or something. Enemies would get an attack bonus against entrenched units the longer they are entrenched.
Maybe we can rework the Iroquois idea so it's more fair?
Ok, so the best of the other ideas need to be assigned to civ leaders:
Trendy architecture: National Wonders built may be build a second time in another city.
Water warriors: Military units have a bonus fighting along river tiles, and coastal tiles.
The Dominion: City State allies produce more military units, and support in wars more regularly.
(I gave the free Great person one to Abu Bakr)
The UU for Robert the Bruce should be the Schiltrom (or Shiltron, or however you want to spell it): a Pikeman replacement that's cheaper to build and has a extra defense bonus.
I definitely want the Mayan's second ability to involve City States! I don't think that they are getting that, although I'm not sure what the UA is exactly anyway? Maybe my Dominion idea: The Dominion: City State allies produce more military units, and support in wars more regularly.
I sort of wanted some culture bonus as well, but that's a start.
Trendy Architecture should go to Franz Joseph. Indicates the dual-Monarchy quite nicely.
Another idea:
Churchill:
Albion's Last Stand: During times of defensive warfare, all production speeds are doubled for 20 turns.
Wow, yet another copy of the same list. Still got the bad "leaders" in as well.
*Who do you mean by 'we'? 'We' have wanted J d'A & WW taken out a few times now, but still they are there. Unless of course, by 'we' you mean 'I'.
Who is WW?
And yeah, Jeanne D'arc is a general, not a civilization leader.
Edit-Oh William Wallace. Haha. No comment on that one. I like Gauls like Brennus and Vercingetorix personally. Vercingetorix isn't very likely considering his ultimate defeat, but it's not like Boudicca is any better, seriously.
Indeed. Ancient/Classical Celtic leaders were invariably trampled by the Romans. The only other famous one I can think of is Caractacus, and yep, he was squished too. Still, you can't really have a Celtic Civ and not include an Ancient/Classical leader, because that's what people expect when they hear the word 'Celt'.
I've given up. I think the best we are going to get is 'OK, I see what you mean, and I haven't really got many credible arguments to back up my position, but we're going to move them to the end of the list so you can pretend they're not there (even though they are).' So for now I'm taking the attitude that the quicker we think of things to apply to the other French and Celtic leaders, the sooner they will be gone.
Opening up the can of worms that is the French leader debate yet again: it seems a shame not to have a medieval King as an option. As someone with French connections (lulz, see what I did there?) it would be great to have Philippe le Bel, Charles VII or Saint Louis as options. OK, so I'm biased as I'm a medievalist by trade, but still.
Perhaps Llyweyn the Great would alleviate the Celtic issue.
I remember mentioning a year or more ago that a good Celtic leader would be Jock Stein
He's a very worthy candidate, perhaps more so than Glyndŵr who is already on the list (at my instigation, in fact).
It would be good to have an Irish leader as well. Brian Boru?
My wishlist for future expansion(s):
1) Corporations, reworked from how they were in IV
2) UN type resolutions, reworked from how they were in IV
3) Worker ability to tunnel through mountains for roads or railroads (and destroy/remove tunnels)
4) Worker ability to make new specialized tile improvements, like airfields, nuke silos, or radar stations
5) New Civs: primarily Isreal, Zulu, Inuit, others
6) Alternate civ leaders for existing civs
An idea I've often thought about would be a an additional "citizen" or "refugee" unit. Basically, cities over a certain size would have the ability to decrease their size and create this civilian unit which would be useless except to move to and add to another city, increasing the population there (an alternate idea would be to also let them do things like workers, but at 1/3 the speed of workers) This would be useful if you have a city that is about to be taken over, you could try to save some of your population by moving them to another city. Naturally, you would get added unhappiness for any displaced citizen units you have roaming the map, maybe a culture hit too.
Oooh yes, Brian Boru. My family served him as Bards. I would very much like him as a leader of the Celts.
I've always seen Llywelyn ap Gruffydd as the William Wallace of Wales, although he is a great deal more noble by bloodline.
We might be putting down too many leaders, so can we have a max of three, with the first choice being the most ideal? Some of them have more than three already, so who should I removed now?
Greece
I suppose Greece's UU, UB, & UA depend on who they are representing. If they are representing all of the Hellenic Kingdoms [They shouldn't] Then no comment.
However if they would make Greece represent God damn Greece instead of Macedonia to then this is a different ball game.
UA: Scholars and Thinkers: Each Great Person gives your Civ a permanent Science and Culture Boost.
Spartans: Replaces Swordsman, More expensive to build, Requires no Iron, Huge strength bonus.
UA: Tactical War: Denounces do nothing, Pillaging does nothing, For every city taken by the enemy, the population is divided and moved to the surrounding cities.
UI: Colony: Can be built by a worker, Build 10 tiles from border and it is a improvement that gives you culture and gold, Useless when in your own territory, however still gives you bonuses in enemy territory.
UA: Military Hegemony: Units recieve extra XP and are built faster during wars. Great People give a city extra defense.
If the Greeks are used to represent anyone else but themselves, this includes using Companion Cavalry or Peltasts, OH LORDY GEE WIZZ THAT WILL MAKE ME MAD!
Lemmie tell you who should have each one: Pericles gets Tactical Warfare.
Epam or Themi or any spartan civ leader gets Military Hegemony
No one unless you have a Spartan in mind, gets the Spartans, because ever Greek leader up there hated the Men of Sparta.
IMO, you should make Queen Victoria the most ideal alternative for England. Also, Louis XIV should definitely remain. Louis IX would showcase that France has too many Louis, so the better option might be Charles de Gaulle, although Charles VII might accomodate the familiarity of Joan of Arc, as well as a Medieval King - a good synergy with Edward III. I'm not sure who Philippe le Bel is, though.
If you want another Polynesia leader you could add Te Rauparaha. He was a Maori Chief regarded as the Napoleon of the South Pacific. His UA could be Dance of Utu: All military units gain a bonus against enemies you have previously been in a war against. Gain an additional bonus if you attack during a truce.
Utu means Revenge in Maori, and most of Te Rauparaha's successful conquests were for revenge. He also invented the Haka, or at least the most famous version of it.
Charles the 2nd for England: Party Master: +3 permanent happiness in your empire, Culture boost ever time you finish a Policy [Culture boost large enough to start you on the next policy]
Just want to make a comment for a possible second ability for the Iroquois. The Iroquois were famous as patrons of land both renting and collecting goods/tribute from other tribes and later settlers and governments for the use of the land. The Iroquois were supposed to be the guardians of land for many other tribes and in some maps this is shown too. And even after the English started taking the land in Canada settlers were still complaining at how the Iroquois were buying back land grants through wise trading.
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So how about a UA that does this: And call it "Wampum Council of the Six Nations"
City States provide 2x their resources. May be resold to other Civs. City States provide a fraction of the gold (50%) they produce to you.
Last edited by Kukulcán; 04-25-2012 at 08:45 PM.
For Ethiopia: UA: "Lion of Judah"
When founding a religion: May switch founder beliefs/follower beliefs for any religion in game and choose new beliefs for that religion. Each social policy adds +2 faith per city.
======
Based on the Ethiopian Dynasty and the history of the Kebra Negast.
Hey Hawk just thinking can we make the current list we have include all popular ideas talked about on this thread? Such as Corporations, UN Resolutions, etc? If so I would probably edit my first post on this thread to include the list so all newcomers could see it and be inspired b the incredible ideas! PM me about it!
ALT FRANCE
CHARLES DE GAULLE
UA: Flame of the French Resistance. Spies are 10% more effective against civilizations you are at war with. Units heal 50% faster in friendly territory, cities heal 25% faster when garrisoned.
LOUIS XIV
UA: Flourishing of the Arts: Gain a culture boost whenever a happiness or culture building is constructed. All wonders generate +2 culture, and those that produce great artist points produce 50% more.
MARIE ANTOINETTE
UA: Let Them Eat Cake. When citizens are starving, you don't get any of those really, really annoying notifications.
UU: Dragoon. Replaces lancer. Can receive defensive bonuses. Can't move after attacking.
UU: Grenadier. Replaces rifleman. Starts with the siege promotion.
UU: Cuirassier. Replaces cavalry. +25% defensive bonus vs melee units.
UU: Corsair. Replaces caravel. Bonus gold and no movement cost pillaging water resources.
UB: Cabaret. Replaces theatre. +3 Happiness, +1 culture for each 4 population.
Last edited by steveg700; 04-26-2012 at 06:13 AM.
I will buy this DLC as long as it contains GWBush for the US saying you are invading other countries because they might have nukuhlar weapons
She never actually said "Let them eat cake." so I'm not sure if that's entirely suitable. Besides, I don't think she's the most ideal leader either..
AUSTRALIA
Leader: Julia Gillard
UA: Carbon Tax. At any random time after the year 2000, a box will show with the quote 'There will be no carbon tax under my government'. Next turn, your gold increases by +20 and you have -1 happiness.
I believe it was an Italian author who later attributed the words to a 'great princess' and as Maria was still alive, the French used it as anti-monarchy slogans.
I like you, but what is wrong with you?
True she never said it, but it's the sort of pseudo pop-history that the Civ series likes to include every once in a while.
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