GOTW Japanese 18.03.2012

[Kadera]

This week we are the Japanese (yes, Americans were skipped ).
Others civs are:
-Germans (very close W)
-Americans (W)
-Aztecs (close SW)
-Romans (SE)
Artifacts:
-7cog (4N from Washington)
-SoC (8S 3E from Tenchotitlan)
-KT (3S 15W from Tenochtitlan)
-AoC (3S 3W from Rome)
-Atlantis (7S 2E from Rome).

Very very good map:
-walk in (on Germans or Aztecs)
-CoL very early (from Romans)
-big production (6 turns for 500h)
-AI capitals very early
-4GP (maybe 5) from Artifacts.
BC non-dom is so obvious, even without GPs (when all GP settled), i can see 600-700 BC with big luck. Also dom scores should be very good (but my opening is designed for non-dom, so maybe i will do nothing for dom).

[MagnaCarta]

From the few tries i got in, i can walkin on berlin + IW at 3600 with 68g, take tenochtitlan at 2900, 7cog ~2800 (galley from 100g settlers) and a bit after that buy CoL from romans but they are not walking out the next turn, they have 170g from me, they are only giving me 20g for CB (??!!??) so 150g left and no walkout 100g settlers.... frustrating ............. then i tried to go for romans first but at 2900 (earliest i can get there with LA) they have AA (how? no gold, no names,no barbs, no tech sold).........

Do you buy CoL from romans or win through conquer? I'm on real limited time this week so any hint will probably save me a load of time ...... I'm guessing the romans and CoL are you first stop judging by your projections as for 600-700BC you'd need CoL at ~2800-2900... but they cheat with AA so soon and i cant get there any sooner (unless maybe M+B LA and not M+I+B but then 100g is delayed therefore 7cog delayed)...........

I was kind of waiting to spam out 20g settler chains for a week, havent done that in a while is there a reason for skipping USA?
i thought GotW is on an autopilot rather then actual people maintaining it every week....

[Kadera]

i can walkin on berlin + IW at 3600 with 68g, take tenochtitlan at 2900

3600 and 3200 after that CoL 170g ~2700 (with no Rome) but it's not perfect (but very easy). So i tried different way: i took Rome and Tenochtitlan (to be faster).

buy CoL from romans but they are not walking out the next turn, they have 170g from me, they are only giving me 20g for CB (??!!??) so 150g left and no walkout 100g settlers....

It's worth +2 turns.

then i tried to go for romans first but at 2900 (earliest i can get there with LA) they have AA (how? no gold, no names,no barbs, no tech sold)

It's normal, AI needs 8 (or 7) hammers for 1 archer.

is there a reason for skipping USA?

Glitch. Also "go to" with militia is glitched. And once i got 1GP from Monarchy+Inv.

your projections as for 600-700BC you'd need CoL at ~2800-2900...

CoL 2900 BC, Republic 2800 BC
No chance for 600-700 BC, expanding is slower than expected (+1 turn due to lack of forest), also lack of science +1 turn (with ~35 cities i have problem with 300 science for University!, and very hard to research Steam P. within 1 turn with 39 cities! + dye + Monarchy).

I posted (on Deity, Cultural V.):
-200 BC with 2GB but GS very very late (with no money production city was ready very late)
-300 BC with 2GS (at 1600 BC) but GB too late (at 800 BC), while Iron Mine 1100 BC, 300 BC is possible without GB
400 BC is possible with 2GS (very early) +1GB, 500 BC with 2GS+2GB.

[Liam_Sutty]

I keep getting bronze from germans no matter what year I walk in. Maybe you are selling CB and buying BW to get iron? I only had 2 very quick goes this morning and went horses to take techno as the warrior that takes germans take the north barb for galley to 7cog.

[Kadera]

Maybe you are selling CB and buying BW to get iron?

I bought IW to get iron BTW. as for dom 2300 BC is easy (for me) but far from optimal (probably 1st LA should go to Washington but it's useless for non-dom).

[Liam_Sutty]

I tried that first but then they only gave me 10g for CB which means 2 turns for legion? Like I said I haven't had a few goes yet so sure I'll get there.

[johnfeddersen]

The aztecs have AA by the time I can reach them so I have to tech Math. Right now I'm at 250 AD Dom Deity.

BC was in my grasp... But AI upsets with Americans:

My force, 2 CAs (inf,Bltz on both) LA (inf, mar) Vet AA plus Fundy

Americans: 2 AA just vet (because I stole thier GL) 1 LA a one L

Amer last cap 200BC: I attack 30CA vs 18 AA lose!

2nd 30CA vs 18AA win!
2nd 30CA vs 18AA win!

15LA vs 9LA Lose!

Amer turn: LA 9 vs AA12 I lose!. Amer GG, L 4 vs 7.5 CA he wins!!!!

6 turns to reload and the Americans go down 200AD

[MagnaCarta]

I keep getting bronze from germans no matter what year I walk in. Maybe you are selling CB and buying BW to get iron?

For me: 3600 berlin + Iron W ------ I settled at 3800 2 squares north of berlin... that barb gives a caravan which i send to berlin at 3600, buy Bronze W for 20g and sell CB for 20g, then walkin gives me IW+13g.

I havent tried buying IW first (it was more expensive so i tried the cheaper first) so i dont know whats better but it worked so i stuck with it

3600 and 3200 after that CoL 170g ~2700 (with no Rome) but it's not perfect (but very easy). So i tried different way: i took Rome and Tenochtitlan (to be faster).

Yes Yes Yes!!! much thanks again for this guidance

2900 Rome+CoL ( )
2800 Tenochtitlan, Republic................. Crazy!! and i still couldnt do BC lol....

I was actually pretty close to getting it done before, had to change the order of civs.... first LA to ROME!! and not Tenochtitlan, also i had to use 2 legions built in kyoto (taking only 2 turns per LA which was the key to getting there in time (at 3000 or before) )


I had my first go Last night, Scored 100AD culture V.... i thought for sure this would be my first BC but NO GB!!NO GB!!NO GB---- that sucked!! I got GS(150c), GS+GA (SoC)..... GE,GE,GA,GA,GH and another very late useless GS which i settled... i used GS,GS on ind+corp at ~1400BC and could have built oxford ~1000-1100 so if i had a GB at that time internet would have been HUGE!!! thats ~900 gold extra per turn starting at 1000 BC (less until railroad at 700BC, maybe 500-600g) so : 4x500=2000g + 6x900=5400g...... total~7400g extra if had a GB.

7400g is worth roughly 10!!! wonders to rush.... im sure that would have been the difference to BC win.... I will try again

My production city was ready for 0AD without communism (with comm 100-200BC depending on $$$ available), but i couldnt get 20/20 in time for that so i never made the switch... had a GS ready in case.

[MagnaCarta]

Glitch. Also "go to" with militia is glitched. And once i got 1GP from Monarchy+Inv.

BTW... A couple of tries, my militia disappeared !?!... i think when im too quick on the buttons sometimes the militia just vanishes when i first settle....... is that what you mean by 'go to' glitch?

Also , the GP glitch... doesnt that always happen when you hit both milestones on the same turn? i.e teching monarchy and reaching 500g at the same time. And if not what happens when you reach 2 milestones on the same turn, i always try to seperate the milestones sometimes losing a turn in the process waiting

[Kadera]

that barb gives a caravan which i send to berlin at 3600

I missed this start Never mind, i got caravan from friendly hut (and spy from barbs, used to get money from map and later to kidnap GL).

NO GB!!NO GB!!NO GB---- that sucked!! I got GS(150c), GS+GA (SoC)..... GE,GE,GA,GA,GH

It's enough for 300 BC (not faster).

i used GS,GS on ind+corp at ~1400BC and could have built oxford ~1000-1100 so if i had a GB at that time internet would have been HUGE!!!

Don't forgot about production city You needs ~1000g for Oxford, so your production city will be ready too late (and GB+2GS / 4GP? big luck is needed).

is that what you mean by 'go to' glitch?

No. Units are moved by "Go to" at end of turn (while this week before end of turn and before normal units, few times i forgot to attack barbs).

the GP glitch... doesnt that always happen when you hit both milestones on the same turn?

Not always, usually yes - it's probably "500g glitch". But this week i researched: Monarchy, next turn Invention (still less than 500g) and got 1GP (not 2).

[johnfeddersen]

Also dom scores should be very good (but my opening is designed for non-dom, so maybe i will do nothing for dom).

Finally a 1800BC dom diety. Dream LAs (inf bltz march) almost every other army... GG from roman. road placement important. Americans not a problem with only 2 AAs and 1 LA.

[MagnaCarta]

Don't forgot about production city You needs ~1000g for Oxford, so your production city will be ready too late (and GB+2GS / 4GP? big luck is needed).

That is so true! So in a way, it actually negates the internet making it useless... can only go as fast as production. i lose 1-2 turns? and best case scenario maybe make it back in earlier communism. I guess my railroad is too late then ?

What year did you get it? I think also im expanding too slow, always.

Noob question: Do you ever build roads for expansion use?

Finally a 1800BC dom diety. Dream LAs (inf bltz march) almost every other army... GG from roman. road placement important. Americans not a problem with only 2 AAs and 1 LA.

Nice score John ....

I messed around based on that strategy and was able to get to america (via 7cog's galley) and attack at 2300 with 4LA+GG from rome (2 had infiltration)... tried twice but kept losing to 1AA at 30... I dont know what else i could do to change it but reload and get a low score so it obviously doesnt count.

Playing dom makes me understand you as i notice its tough to win a final battle

[MagnaCarta]

Finally able to crack the stubborn Americans for a 2200BC domination win (definitely perfect FOR ME as i squeezed every last possible move into this).... Last try of the week too , lol, down to my last attack

Off to Vegas for the Weekend ..........

[USBlues19]

Is it okay to ask some ultra-noob questions here? If so, here goes.

Well, I posted my best Deity finish ever with a 1860 AD science victory. My strategy is to get to CoL fast and then start building island cities, and rush for Tanks. Then protect myself / expand as I get all the techs.

Even after reading a bunch of these threads, I have no idea how you guys are finishing so fast. (Doesn't help that I only get about 1/2 your abbreviations...)

First of all, what's a walk-in? I've sent a warrior over toward an opponent directly, but by the time I get a warrior and get over there, they have at least an archer defending. If I wait til I have a warrior army, they have archer army.

So I always end up just playing defense and going for a tech win.

Do I research horsemen first? Try to take some capitals and then focus on science? I'm afraid I'll fall behind on science if I don't start with Alphabet - rush library, then go pottery,masonry, irrigation, etc.

Throw a clueless noob a bone, ay?!?

[Kadera]

Watch my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Naluzie. Also you should read faqs on forums.2kgames.com.
Simply:
-take 1st capital (best walk in)
-get money from barbs
-take next 2 caps
-spam 30-40 cities
-Ind+Corp (15g for free x number of cities) etc.

Noob question: Do you ever build roads for expansion use?

Never.

attack at 2300 with 4LA+GG from rome (2 had infiltration)... tried twice but kept losing to 1AA at 30... I dont know what else i could do to change it

Attack barbs etc. I'm not going for dom but they have AA 27, with spy 24 (15 vs 24, 12 vs 8, 12 vs x ...).

[MagnaCarta]

First of all, what's a walk-in? I've sent a warrior over toward an opponent directly, but by the time I get a warrior and get over there, they have at least an archer defending. If I wait til I have a warrior army, they have archer army.

Its when you take a capital before it has any defenses up. Most civs will have their first archer up and defending at 3500BC (your time), so if you can get their and attack at 3600 or earlier, you are walking in without a fight... usually takes bumping into at least 20g with your settlers and settling very close to the capital (usually within 2 squares), rushing a warrior and moving him towards the city so next turn you can take it.

Well, I posted my best Deity finish ever with a 1860 AD science victory. My strategy is to get to CoL fast and then start building island cities, and rush for Tanks. Then protect myself / expand as I get all the techs.

Combustion (tanks) is useless for technology victory or any other type for that matter (except late domination win). they are a load of fun though!!

(Doesn't help that I only get about 1/2 your abbreviations...)

for help with this you'll have to be more specific

Do I research horsemen first? Try to take some capitals and then focus on science? I'm afraid I'll fall behind on science if I don't start with Alphabet - rush library, then go pottery,masonry, irrigation, etc.

Like Kadera stated above, after first cap go get money and make more offensive units and plan your next capital(s)...
As far as tech, After getting what is needed for making your armies (if needed. sometimes you can get techs from the first civ you take, such as IW for legions) your target is CoL-republic !!! asap. and then start expanding in medieval era.
Dont worry about falling behind since you are taking your opponents out, there is no one to chase really

Again as been stated above, try and watch some of those videos ( http://www.youtube.com/user/Naluzie ), they're great!.... you'll learn a lot and get the hang of it in no time, that is mostly how I learned along with past GotW threads and in general in this forum.....

[johnfeddersen]

Great Score Magna!

I think If I take on America earlier with Spy (instead of to rome). In the mean time send settlers from my cap to create city 2 tiles from Rome... with roads I'm 3 turns from america to rome with 7 to 10 LAs + GG.

Have fun in Vegas!

Kadera,

Thanks for all the insights as usual!

[ScottieX]

BTW... A couple of tries, my militia disappeared !?!... i think when im too quick on the buttons sometimes the militia just vanishes when i first settle.......

thats to do with the button you press when you get the message after you settle.

[MagnaCarta]

thats to do with the button you press when you get the message after you settle.

It must be the Y button (xbox) then, sometimes i press Y few times before settlers get there (after multiple restarts there is an urge to get there faster lol) and im guessing it overlaps a bit after the settlers settle.....

Throw a clueless noob a bone, ay?!?

Another great thread that covers pretty much everything about GotW (and somehow not mentioned much):

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...990-GOTW-Guide

BTW... it was written by the man above ... (the man above my post that is )