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Thread: Gods & Kings Super Sleuthing

  1. #1
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    Gods & Kings Super Sleuthing

    Please help us fully flesh out this list!

    $29.99, June 19th in America
    Pre-order is now available on Steam! Game unlocks 10AM PST on June 19th in America.
    Game launches internationally on June 22nd; prices will vary outside of the US.

    Freshly Updated Civ 5 Gods & Kings Handbook for Despots & Dictators
    Please help me fact check it!

    Lets Play Gods & Kings With 2K Greg
    Greg crowdsources decisions while playing as the Celts, against the Aztecs and Incas.

    New G&K Developer Diary
    Dennis Shirk and Ed Beach talk about new game mechanics in G&K.

    PAX Interviews and Demos
    Dennis Shirk interviewed by our own 2K Greg at 00:55, and followed by the PAX demo narrated by Dennis Shirk at 01:22.

    9 New Civs
    • Austria (Maria Theresa)
      Diplomatic Marriage allows you to pay gold to puppet or annex an allied City-State
      Unique Cavalryman the Hussar is faster and gains a large bonus while flanking
      Unique Windmill the Coffee House boosts Great Person generation
    • Byzantines (Queen Theodora)
      Patriarchate of Constantinople allows you to choose an extra bonus Belief upon founding a Religion
      Unique Trireme the Dromon is an early-game ranged Naval ship and has a large bonus VS other naval units, but is expensive to build
      Unique Horseman the Cataphract is slower, but stronger, has a smaller penalty VS cities, and benefits from defensive bonuses
    • Carthage (Queen Dido)
      Phoenician Heritage grants a free Harbor in all Cities and, once a Great General is born, allows units to pass through Mountain tiles (though they take 50 damage for STAYING on top of a mountain)
      Unique Horseman the African Forest Elephant is stronger, generates GG's faster and strikes fear in enemy ranks, but is also slower
      Unique Trireme the Quinquereme has a higher base strength
    • Celtica (Boudicca)
      Druidic Lore grants +1 Faith in Cities that are next to an unimproved forest, or +2 Faith if near 3 or more forests.
      Unique Spearman the Pictish Warrior gains a Combat bonus outside friendly territory, produces Faith when they kill an enemy and pillages at no movement cost, but has no bonus VS mounted units
      Unique Opera House the Ceilidh Hall provides +3 Happiness
    • Ethiopia (Haile Selassie)
      Spirit of Adwa grants +20% Combat Bonus vs Civs who have more cities than you do
      Unique Rifleman the Mehal Sefari starts with Drill I and is stronger depending on how close they are to the capital
      Unique Monument the Stele provides +2 Faith
    • Huns (Attila the Hun)
      Scourge of God grants free Animal Husbandry tech at the start of the game, +1 Production from Pastures, and Raze cities at double speed
      Unique Spearman the Battering Ram is a melee Siege unit that actually upgrades to Trebuchet
      Unique Horseman the Horse Archer starts with Accuracy I and has no rough terrain movement penalty
    • Mayans (Pacal the Great)
      Long Count grants free great people on specific turns in the game, and changes your year date to Mayan (cosmetic)
      Unique Archer the Atlatl techs with agriculture, not archery, and is slightly cheaper
      Unique Shrine the Pyramid generates Science as well as Faith
    • Netherlands (William of Orange)
      East India Company retains 50% Happiness from Luxuries that are Traded away to other Civs
      Unique Improvement the Polder gives +Food to Wetlands and Flood Plains, and later +Production and +Gold as well
      Unique Privateer the Sea Beggar starts with Coastal Raider II and Supply
    • Sweden (Gustavus Adolphus)
      Nobel Prize allows you to gain 90 influence when gifting Great People to City States. Also, Declarations of Friendship confer +10% Great Person generation to both parties.
      Unique Lancer the Hakkapeliitta gains an additional bonus when sharing a tile with a Great General
      Unique Rifleman the Carolean starts with March

    People who have not bought the Spain + Inca DLC will be getting Spain for free with Gods & Kings, as they are featured in a Crusades-themed scenario. They will have to go buy the DLC to get Inca, the New World scenario and the New World Natural Wonders.

    Songhai's UA now grants +1 sight and double defense to embarked units. Their Mandekalu Cavalry are slightly cheaper. Their Mud Pyramid Mosque now produces Faith, as Temples are now Faith buildings. Egypt's Burial Tomb both now also produce Faith, not culture, and has its usual Happiness bonus. England now gets a bonus Spy on top of their naval movement bonus. Ottomans now grant the Prize Ships promotion to all their naval units, so they can steal ships that aren't Barbarian-owned; they still get reduced maintenance on naval units. Jaguars have a smaller CS bonus now, but they get it in both jungles and forests.

    9 New Wonders
    • Alhambra
      +1 Great Artist Point, +1 Culture, +20% Culture, all Land Military units produced by this city gain Drill I, Free Castle
    • CN Tower
      +1 Great Merchant Point, +1 Happiness per City, +1 Population in each city, free Broadcast Tower in each city
    • Great Firewall
      99.9% reduction in enemy Spy effectiveness in the city in which it's built, +25% elsewhere
    • Great Mosque of Djenne
      +1 Great Engineer Point, +1 Culture, +3 Faith, Missionaries born in this city can spread religion 3 times (not 2), free Mosque
    • Hubble Space Telescope
      +1 Great Scientist Point, 2 free Great Scientists, +25% production when building Spaceship Parts, Free Spaceship Factory
    • Leaning Tower of Pisa
      +1 Great Artist Points, +1 Culture, +25% Great Person generation, 1 free Great Person of your choice
    • Neuschwanstein
      +1 Great Merchant Point, +2 Happiness, +4 Culture, +6 gold, and +3 Gold/+2 Culture/+1 Happiness from every Castle; must be built in a city within 2 tiles of a Mountain that's within your borders
    • Petra
      +1 Great Engineer Points, +1 Culture, and +1 Food/+1 Production/+1 Gold from Desert tiles (not including Flood Plains), free Amphitheater; must be built in a city on or next to a Desert
    • Terra Cotta Army
      +1 Great Artist Points, +6 Culture

    It's unknown what any of these do just yet, or where they unlock, but it's seen in one of the screengrabs that Colossus was moved to Ironworking so it seems Wonders are being shuffled around a bit. Some preexisting wonders are being rebalanced, such as Stonehenge which now produces Faith.

    27 New Units
    • Civilian Units: Missionaries (spread your religion) & Inquisitors (prevents spread of foreign religion)
    • Great People: Great Prophets & Great Admirals (can be expended to heal your boats, even outside friendly waters)
    • Classical: Composite Bowman
    • Medieval: Galleass
    • Renaissance: Privateer
    • WWI Era: Biplane Bombers, Triplane Fighters, Land Ships, WWI Infantry, & Gatling Guns
    • Industrial Era: Machine Gun
    • Modern Era: Marine
    • Unique: African War Elephant, Atlatl, Battering Ram, Carolean, Cataphract, Dromon, Hakkapelliita, Horse Archer, Hussar, Mehal Sefari, Pictish Warrior, Quinquereme, Sea Beggar

    G&K introduces Melee-type Boats that can capture coastal Cities. For instance, Battleships are ranged units, while Destroyers are melee and may therefore conquer Cities. All Embarked Units can now defend themselves and can stack with Naval units as if they were Civilian units. Siege units will be almost necessary to take Cities, especially those who've built Walls and Castles. They have a 200% bonus VS Cities and a lower base strength, meaning they're even worse when used VS units.

    Great Admirals can be expended to heal nearby ships. Great Prophets can create Holy Site tile improvements which yield +6 Faith.

    Great Artists are now the only Great People who can start a Golden Age; they no longer have the Culture Bomb ability. Great Scientists do not grant a new tech outright, they give a lump sum of Science equal to the amt of Science your Civ produced during the previous six turns. When Great Generals create a Citadel, it has a Culture Bomb-type effect; also their Combat Bonus has been reduced to 15%.

    Units now have 100 life, not 10. This is mean to make combat unfold more slowly, allowing for more time for strategy. For instance, killing a unit with a similarly-strengthed unit will take 3 or 4 hits. Also, Embarked Units can now share tiles with Naval Units, allowing sea invasions to be a bit easier.

    13 New Buildings
    • Faith: Shrines (early Faith-producer)
    • Beliefs: Cathedrals, Pagodas & Mosques (unlocks via Follower Beliefs; paid for with Faith)
    • Culture: Amphitheater (replaces Temple, which will has been re-purposed as a Faith-producing building)
    • Espionage: Constabulary & Police Station
    • Atomic Era: Bomb Shelter (protects population VS nukes) & Recycling Center (provides Aluminum)
    • Uniques: Ceilidh Hall, Coffee House, Pyramid and Stele
      And 1 new National Wonder
    • National Wonders: National Intelligence Agency (grants a 5th spy, requires Police Stations?)

    Cathedrals, Mosques and Pagodas are buildable only by taking a corresponding Founder Belief and must be 'bought' with Faith, in the same manner as Missionaries and Inquisitors. The Monastery has been reworked to similarly now only be buildable with the Monasteries Follower Belief.

    New Techs
    • Drama & Poetry (classical) (replaces Aesthetics, to alleviate confusion with the Policy)
    • Architecture (renaissance)
    • Guilds (medieval)
    • Ballistics (modern)
    • Industrialization (modern)
    • Combined Arms (atomic)
    • Telecommunications (information)
    • Mobile Tactics (information)
    • Advanced Ballistics (information)

    The Classical Era is now thick enough to be two 'columns' wide. Eras now run as Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern, Atomic, Information. Here's the full tech tree, albeit in low rez.

    New Natural Wonders
    • Mt Kailash (Tibetan mountain considered holy by Hindus)
    • Mt Sinai (Egyptian mountain considered holy by the Abrahamic religions)
    • Sri Pada (Sri Lankan mountain considered holy by most religions)
    • Uluru (Australian rock formation considered holy by Aborigines)

    New Luxury Resources
    • Crabs (Fishing Boats)
    • Salt (Mine)
    • Truffles (Hunting Camp, marked by Pigs)
    • Citrus (Plantation)
    • Copper (Mine)

    We haven't heard of more buildings like the Granary or Stables which boost these new resources, so probably pre-existing buildings will boost them. Some more new Luxuries have been confirmed and are tied to the new Mercantile City-States. More on that below.

    Golden Ages now last longer, and provide their bonus to Culture output as well as Gold and Production. Also, all Building-derived Happiness, no matter what, is always considered Local. Wonder-derived Happiness is still considered Global.

    Religion
    The Faith ticker is colored in white, symbolized by a white dove holding a green olive branch. This gives passive benefits similar to Policies called Beliefs which can be beneficial for pursuit of any victory. Religions are like Wonders in that they can only be founded once. In any game, only about half the players will be founders. Religions spread on their own to neighboring cities (within 10 tiles). Missionaries are used to spread your religion to foreign Cities and Inquisitors are used to prevent the spread of others' religions. There are three kinds of beliefs: Pantheon, Founder and Religious. Examples of Pantheon Beliefs include:
    • Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra Tiles (without Forests)
    • Faith Healers:+33HP healed per turn if adjacent to a Friendly City
    • Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
    • Gods of Craftsmen: +1 Production in Cities with 3 or greater Population
    • God of War: +Faith from battles won within 4 tiles of your Cities
    • Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith from Incense and Wine
    • One with Nature: +4 Faith from Natural Wonders
    • Religious Settlement: +15% faster border growth


    Eventually, your fledgling religion blossoms into 11 possibles: Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Taoism, Tengriism and Zoroastrianism. These real world religions are only lending their symbology; the beliefs behind your religion will be completely customizable, even their names. The Founder beliefs, of which you will choose one, will benefit only your Civ and the City in which the religion was founded will become that Religion's "Holy City". If you lose your holy city, you lose your founder belief until you can win back your city. The conqueror of the Holy City does NOT gain your Founder Belief while they are occupying it.

    • Initiation Rites: +100 Gold when each City first converts to this Religion
    • Interfaith Dialogue: Gain Science when a Missionary spreads this religion to cities of other religions
    • Just War: +20% Combat near enemy Cities that follow this Religion
    • Papal Primacy: +15 to Influence ranking point with City-States following this religion
    • Peace Loving: +1 Happiness for every 5 followers of this religion in non-enemy foreign cities
    • Pilgrimage: +1 Faith for each foreign city following this religion

    The follower Beliefs, of which you will choose three (one upon founding the religion when your first Great Prophet spawns, and two more later when a second Great Prophet spawns), will benefit any City that follows your religion, e.g.:

    • Cathedrals: Use Faith to purchase Cathedrals (+1 Faith, +3 Culture, +1 Happiness, Artist Specialist slot)
    • Divine Inspiration: Each World Wonder provides +2 Faith in city
    • Guruship: +2 Production if city has a Specialist
    • Holy Warriors: Use Faith to purchase pre-Industrial land units
    • Peace Gardens: Gardens provide +2 Happiness in city
    • Swords into Plowshares: 15% faster Growth rate for city if not at war

    "The religion game kinda happens through the first two thirds of the game and then kinda naturally tapers out," lead designer Ed Beach said. Founding a Religion creates a 'Holy City'. You lose the benefit of your Founder Belief if this city is captured (not sure if the city can be razed). The conqueror does not steal these belief. You will get them back if you reclaim the city.

    City-States
    Religious city-states have been added, which give you +Faith per turn. The new Mercantile City-States have solitary access to unique luxuries, such as Porcelain or Jewelry, which can give a marked Happiness boost to your Civilization. The quest system is greatly expanded, allowing Civs to offer up to 3 quests at once, and offer new kinds of quests as well, such as denouncing other Civs for them. The Influence Points that Gold can buy has been greatly reduced.

    City-States can be 'bullied' without outright going to war with them. Give a show of force and make demands, and perhaps they'll give in to avoid war. This will lower your standing with them, and possibly other City-States as well, and might trigger requests for Declaration of Protection against you. New City-States include:

    The new full list is thus:
    • Cultural: Brussels, Bucharest, Florence, Kathmandu, Kuala Lumpur, Milan, Monaco, Prague, Warsaw, Yerevan
    • Militaristic: Almaty, Belgrade, Budapest, Hanoi, Sidon, Valletta
    • Maritime: Cape Town, Jakarta, Lisbon, Manila, Mombasa, Quebec City, Ragusa, Rio de Janeiro, Sydney, Venice
    • Mercantile: Antwerp, Cahokia, Colombo, Genoa, Hong Kong, Marrakech, Singapore, Tyre, Zanzibar, Zurich
    • Religious: Geneva, Jerusalem, La Venta, Lhasa, Vatican City, Whittenberg


    Espionage
    Spies are unlocked during the Renaissance. They are not represented on the board. You get 1 Spy per Era, starting with the Renaissance (meaning 4 Spies by the Modern Era) and one for building the National Intelligence Agency national wonder, meaning 5 Spies in total, and England with 6. Spies gain promotions like other units for successful missions. If a spy is killed, you have to wait a predetermined amount of turns for a new Spy to take its place.

    Note spies are NOT represented on the board as a unit. You assign spies to the City of your choice and put them to work doing various tasks: rig elections in City-States (which occur every 12 turns), create unrest, steal technologies and run surveillance. Spies can also be stationed in your own cities to work counter-intelligence and safeguard Technologies from being stolen.

    Gathering information via surveillance can give you pieces of Intrigue regarding AI Civ's activities, such as Netherlands planning to invade the Huns, which you can choose to share if you like in order to make friends with rival Civs (Intrigue is turned off in Multiplayer).

    Diplomacy
    Religion will greatly determine who you can deal with early on in the game, as those who don't share your religion will be less likely to deal with you. Later in the game, diplomacy is most influenced by Policies, specifically Order, Autocracy and Freedom. The "is trying to win the same victory as you" diplomatic penalty has been removed from the game. Also, you won't get blamed for wars you didn't start. Furthermore, the AI is more forgiving and will not hold a grudge against you as long as it used to.

    You can offer to adopt an Embassy for a friendly rival Civ starting in the Classical Era, which allows you to see each others' Capitals and gives a boost to diplomatic relations. Research Agreements can only be made with Civs you have declared Friendship with and cannot be made until Education. You may also sell advanced technologies to rival Civs.

    You may negotiate to renew treaties before they expire. Civs have a chance to renegotiate the treaty during this process.

    Computer Player AI
    The AI is much more intelligent now in combat maneuvers and it's been stated specifically that the AI builds and deploys armies more intelligently, so hopefully there will be less zerg rushing and more proper use of ranged units. We're told that the AI can plan a betrayal 15 turns in advance now, and they have been programmed to intelligently plan amphibious invasions. Until we get to play it, it will be difficult to know exactly how much tougher the AI is.

    Policy Trees
    The Policy Trees have had a full balance pass. For all the changes, above is a video courtesy of our very own MadDjinn

    User Interface
    You'll be able to skip the opening cinematic, which will take you to a loading screen (confirmed to be rolled out to Vanilla as well.) The UI has also been redecorated slightly to look a little less Art Deco and a little more Baroque.

    Multiplayer
    You'll be able to have animations in multiplayer, either move or attack animations, or both. This change will be rolled out to owners of Vanilla Civ 5 as well.

    3 Scenarios
    "Fall of Rome," a Classical attack/defense scenario: "Play as either Eastern Rome or Western Rome trying to fend off the barbarians, or as one of the barbarians themselves." Rome and Byzantium are forced to take Policies that negatively impact their empires, while the Celts in the west, Carthaginians across the Mediterranean and Huns in the east all push to be the Civilization that took down the mighty Roman empire.

    "Into the Renaissance," a Religion-centric Medieval scenario: "Grow your medieval kingdom into one of the great nations of Renaissance Europe, fending off outside invasions from Mongols and Ottoman Turks and fighting the religious wars of the Crusades and Reformation!" Almost certain to be greatly influenced by the Thirty Years' War: Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, France and Spain will vie against the Ottomans and Mongols.

    "Empire of the Smoky Skies," a Victorian 'steam-punk' science fiction scenario: "Build flying airships and huge tractor-like tanks from the unique tech tree of this Victorian science-fiction scenario, and use them to spread your empire across the pre-industrial world."

    Screenshots
    Religion
    Espionage
    WWI Era warfare
    Great Prophet
    Industrial Era
    Netherlands
    Ethiopia and Huns

    Civs by continent:

    • America America, Aztec, Inca, Iroquois, Maya
    • Europe Austria, Byzantium, Celts, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Greece, Netherlands, Rome, Russia, Spain, Sweden
    • Africa Carthage, Egypt, Ethiopia, Songhai
    • Near East Arabia, Babylon, Ottomans, Persia
    • Asia China, Huns, India, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Siam
    • Oceania Polynesia


    Civs by 'era':
    • Ancient Aztec, Babylon, Celtica, Egypt, Huns, Inca, Maya, Polynesia
    • Classical Byzantium, Carthage, Greece, India, Iroquois, Persia, Rome
    • Medieval Arabia, China, Denmark, England, Germany, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Siam, Songhai
    • Renaissance America, Austria, Ethiopia, France, Netherlands, Ottomans, Russia, Spain, Sweden


    Hey, who are the:
    • Shintoists Japanese
    • Sikhs Indians (Punjabs)
    • Tengriists Mongolians & Huns
    • Zoroastrians Persians
    Last edited by zephyrtr; 06-23-2012 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    Civs:
    Byzantium
    Carthage

    Religions:

    Confucianism
    Tengriism

    Wonders:

    Great Mosque of Djenne (the last of the 3 wonder screenshots)

    Units:

    Great Prophet
    Missionaries
    Spies (not available till the Renaissance and are not built but rather awarded after x many turns)
    Melee naval units (which can conquer coastal cities)
    WWI-era bi-planes and tri-planes
    Privateer
    Pictish Warrior

    Buildings(?):
    Foreign Embassies

    Misc.:
    Embarked units can defend themselves
    Unit HP changed from 10 to 100.

    UA:
    Celts have the ability to gain additional faith when their cities are settled against a forest.
    Byzantines can purchase a bonus sixth belief.
    Mayan UA somehow revolves around the calendar.
    The Dutch have a ship that steals gold from port cities and can also convert wetlands to profitable fields.

    Lead designer is Ed Beach.

    http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1218810p1.html
    http://kotaku.com/5885161/heres-how-...ent-the-series
    http://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-...ion-v-6350514/ (also confirms Byzantine and gives info on their ability)
    http://www.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-c...ion-v-6350514/
    http://www.2kgames.com/blog/civiliza...pack-announced
    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/02/16/ci...available-lat/ (Confirms Carthage)
    Last edited by istry555; 02-16-2012 at 01:14 PM.

  3. #3
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    According to GS

    http://asia.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-...ion-v-6350514/

    WWI Era "Land Ship" tanks will be added and a "Privateer" naval unit with some special abilities will be added

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    Religion seems to be based on the accumulation of "Faith" points similar to Culture. The current accumulation of Faith points is displayed on the top resource bar as a dove with an olive branch in its beak. I remember seeing a forum post about a mod that worked in a similar manner. I can't remember the name of the mod though. You accumulated faith points and at certain threshold values you unlock new characteristics for your religion. Seems the expansion is following that same basic philosophy.

    The third wonder concept art looks like the Mosque of the Djenne. Could this mean that the Mali are returning as a playable civ?

  5. #5
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    Civs:
    Byzantium. You can tell on the screenshot with the religions, the 'bonus belief', this is also their UA, having 6 beliefs where other civs have 5.
    Carthage. Mentioned in several previews.
    Celts. The Pict Warrior is probably their UU.

    Wonders:
    Going from the screenshots the Terracotta Army and Petra.

  6. #6
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    From one of the screenshots (of the religion screen), it also appears that the Colossus has been moved to Iron Working.

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    Empires of the Smoky Skies, "a Victorian science-fiction scenario."
    - from the joystic article.

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    I wish to know how much.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machturbo View Post
    I wish to know how much.
    http://www.gamespot.com/sid-meiers-c...ion-v-6350514/

    Says $29.99

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    I'm going to guess the Leaning Tower of Pisa is one of the additional wonders since it's been on the cover art forever.

  11. #11
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    Keep it coming, guys! As more info comes to light, I'll assimilate it to the top post. What seems to be most missing from this update is WHEN the expansion's coming out. Late Spring is not very specific.

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    Upping HP for units to 100 is probably an attempt to create a greater disparity between older and newer units, reduce the wild fluctuations from rounding, and to change healing rates for various units. It might also mean that units will survive combats with contemporary units more often, even if overmatched (i.e. a Horseman being more likely to barely survive an attack from a Spearman). But this is all just speculation.

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    more numbers certainly does make rounding less severe. I would like a slightly more predictable math system for combat. It was very frustrating to go into a fight that seemed to give you all the advantages, and still lose dramatically for some unknown reason. Luck of the dice doesn't swing a battle that much.

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    they probably made this change because there is no more stacks of doom running around so maybe they are trying to find a happy medium in all this? kinda makes sense. I don't know how it will pan out though with having 100 HP. I would think they must also increase city's HP as well, otherwise one unit will own a city, which is against how they envisioned city combat would be played out.

    I know some people liked stacking of units, but I am glad it was taken out.


    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrtr View Post
    more numbers certainly does make rounding less severe. I would like a slightly more predictable math system for combat. It was very frustrating to go into a fight that seemed to give you all the advantages, and still lose dramatically for some unknown reason. Luck of the dice doesn't swing a battle that much.
    I agree somewhat, its crazy how some of the results are but there has to be some risk to it all. If I wanted to give an excuse for such things, it could be the imagination of bad weather, failed tools/weapons, incorrect information.

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    for combat:

    The increased HP/unit would seem to indicate a finer grain combat damage system (unless for some reason they just like big numbers). Maybe they're trying to get rid of situations like 10 CKN wiping out a 100 defence city via the 1 damage/shot minimum? (equates to 10% minimum damage/shot vs. units). Or mass Keshik ownage until air units appear.

    So... Spear vs. Tank won't be a rage quit moment anymore? We'll have to wait and see.

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    I've missed your colorful posts, zephyrtr... welcome back. This is a very nice compilation.

    It's nothing but a hunch right now, but I believe the Classical era will be fleshed-out in GK too with all the new content and religious game mechanics which are more emphasized during the earlier eras.

    Perhaps you can add to the list the use of a new UI art style, which others have described as being more Baroque-esque.

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    Aw, thanks! It's good to be back. This is definitely the kindest game community I've been a part of. (Been trolling D3 lately -- its a certifiable mess in there).

    It seems pretty definite that the Industrial era will be more fleshed out. I hope religion is gonna flesh out Classical, though. A big complaint has always been that the classical era is over too fast.

    The UI art style changing from deco to baroque doesn't really affect gameplay at all. I guess I could add a footnote.

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    Aside from MegaBearsFan's picture, what all can we do in religion? Will there be any difference between them or will they just be the same thing, just a different name?

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    Interesting that theirs no new techs, i wonder if they've done anything with RA's. i also hope the combat AI has had an upgrade, like Civ4s first expansion.

    It all looks really good.

  20. #20
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    There are new techs, it says so in the first paragraph of the blog post

    EDIT: A quote:

    It will come as no surprise to those of you who are familar with expansion packs for previous Civilization games that Gods & Kings will add more techs, units, buildings, Wonders, and playable Civilizations. But what about the big brand new game elements that will change the way you conquer the world? Let me lay it out for you:

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    Additionally, a sharp-eyed Civver from the original thread also spotted that the City State of Lisbon was still in the game via one of the screenshots for this expansion pack so it's unlikely that the Portuguese will make it this time...and also with Hanoi, no Vietnam.

    So that makes it, from the links in this thread:
    Celts
    Mayans
    Netherlands
    Byzantines
    (probably) Carthaginians

    + almost certainly the Zulu for balance and consistency with previous Civ releases.

    Who are the most likely in your opinion for the other 3?:

    Ethiopia - not much mooting on the forums, probably unlikely.
    Israel ( I think that with the commitment to two 'religious cities' that this will make Israel's inclusion unlikely, as Jerusalem will surely be one of them and it's omission from a potential Israel Civ will be too controversial/ unlikely)
    Sioux - it's been a while and it would increase the much needed representation from the Americas.
    Inuit - with the greatest respect to Polar Bear....please(!) Although, if it is included it would show that Civ do listen and lobbying on this forum works but I really can't and don't particularly want to see it in this expansion...this time, there are far more worthy candidates.
    As for the rest of the Americas, even though I would like it, I can't see the Apache or any other Native American nation making it and Mexico is a slightly more plausible, if not still massively unlikely addition, with Canada.
    Kongo - A late but popular choice (including with me) on the forums...that would confound the arguments of Civvers complaining of 'Vanilla' Civs.
    Poland (Lithuania Confederation) - like Kongo before it, it would be a debutant in the series and some much needed fresh blood.
    Sumerians - A reprise from Civ III and it would mix it up a bit.
    Hittites - As per the Sumerians but with both of these, Assyrians - in my opinion a glaring omission over the 5 Civs with not as even a hint of a mention but like Kongo and Poland, it would be a complete outsider and thus very unlikely.
    Majapahit After reading into this Civ, it could well be a deserved inclusion that could once again break the so called 'vanilla' mould. Does 2K have the imagination, or is it high enough in the pecking order, to include it? Probably not...
    Nepal is possible but once again, a reach.
    Austria-Hungary would be interesting although probably unlikely...maybe it will be a Magyar Civ all on its own representing Hungary and Eastern Europe.
    The Huns, as mentioned above would have a chance through the back door of a scenario and they should get their shot, why not?
    After Denmark's DLC release I can't see any other Scandianavian Civ - Sweden or Finland being in this one.
    With Songai already in place, I can't see Mali (ever) making a return in Civ V.
    (There are 10s of other Civs but I can't see them making it)

    I would like the 3 'missing' Civs to be: Israel, Sioux and Kongo (and if not them, Poland).
    However, I think it will be: Sioux, The Huns and one of Sumerians/ Hittites/ Assyrians.

    With all the interesting and superb improvements, I can't wait for April, probably early May - 'late spring', vague but not that vague. I think I will add Korea to my cart!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Israelite76 View Post
    Who are the most likely in your opinion for the other 3?:
    I think those three Civs will be; Sioux, Kongo and Indonesia.

    What I am dreaming about is; Finland, Israel and Vietnam. Also Timurids (Espionage focused Civ) would fit to the expansion concept perfectly...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARDUK View Post
    I think those three Civs will be; Sioux, Kongo and Indonesia.

    What I am dreaming about is; Finland, Israel and Vietnam. Also Timurids (Espionage focused Civ) would fit to the expansion concept perfectly...
    I would think one of the missing Civ's has to be Zululand. Perhaps I'm dreaming as well....

  24. #24
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    I think the 4 remaining civs are probably going to be filled like this:

    the Zulu
    then either Portugal or Sumeria (and whichever one doesn't get added will almost definitely be DLC later)
    then either Ethiopia, Mali (doubtful), Khmer, Sioux, or the Hittites
    then the last spot will be a surprise new non-legacy civ.

    My reasoning being that the Zulu are the biggest legacy civ missing, being in 5 previous games (Civ I-IV and Rev). Sumeria and Portugal are tied for the next legacy spot, both appearing in two previous games. The next tier are all the civs that have only appeared in one previous game (and not counting the redundant civs like amalgamated Native America). Then, a surprise new civ seems obvious as otherwise people would complain that all the civs are old choices, and vanilla had surprise civs in Songhai and Siam over more obvious choices for their regions.

    One final comment. The Celts and Byzantium UAs already focus on religion, so I highly suspect a civ will be focused on espionage to highlight that new mechanic. Since previews have said spies don't really come into play until the Renaissance, that leaves a civ around that era.
    Last edited by istry555; 02-16-2012 at 11:14 PM.

  25. #25
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    Where's Kevik when you need a poll, eh?

  26. #26
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    I think Babylon has ancient Mesopotamia pretty much covered. Sumer's definitely out, and the Hittites and Assyrians aren't exactly far away.

    Israel is difficult to make a case for as a unique civilization for two distinct reasons. Present day Israel lacks much of a history. It is a self-described nation of the Jewish people, yet much of the Jewish history and its cultural, scientific and historical contributions have been made prior to its founding or outside of it due to the Jewish Diaspora. On the other hand, the biblical Kingdom of Israel lacks a contiguous archaelogical history. We literally know nothing about it given how little evidence there is. Using what little imagination I have, sticking Jerusalem in as a city-state is probably the most concrete thing the devs can do.

    Mexico is a stretch. Given the presence of the Aztecs, they'd have to do some juggling with city names. I have my doubts about this one.

    The Huns feel pretty spot-on, and in addition to that I would add the Portuguese (one of the major Renaissance colonial powers). The last one is a toss-up. Maybe Tibet is unique enough in terms of culture to warrant a shot at that spot, but they'd have to screw around with Lhasa and whatnot.

  27. #27
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    Question Carthage

    Looks like Carthage is very likely in, so who do you think will lead them? Queen Dido, General Hannibal Barca or someone else? I would very much prefer Queen Dido. A much needed female leader and has serious freshness

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    I think the 4 remaining civs are probably going to be filled like this:

    [...] legacy civ [...]
    Could it be they are on purpose still leaving out some legacy civs for later, either in another expansion pack or DLC? All civ games (with the exception of the first one) had two expansion packs.
    One final comment. The Celts and Byzantium UAs already focus on religion, so I highly suspect a civ will be focused on espionage to highlight that new mechanic. Since previews have said spies don't really come into play until the Renaissance, that leaves a civ around that era.
    Could be. Another thing to note is that both the Dutch and Carthage are naval powers, which would fit in well with the redesigned naval combat. So it'd make sense that some of the new unknown civs would make use of the new possibilities, like indeed spies.

    So what civ would be good/known for (proto-)espionage?

  29. #29
    Zephyrt thanks for the work for compiling all this!

    Add to diplomacy part something about this:

    After religion loses its biggest power, diplomatic relationships get affect by ideologies of Empires.
    Freedom, autocracy and order start to determine things.


    I personally love this, gives this setting ready for world wars and espionage cold wars. You can choose if you want to join a pact or just stay neutral, Switzerland style.

  30. #30
    Anandus, my money is on Austria. They are remarkable enough to be in the game, and as Espionage comes to play from renaissance onward it would suit them well.

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    Thumbs up New AI's Improvement is Comparable to the Jump in IQ from a Gorilla to a Human.

    I have received word that the AI in the expansion will be much more powerful than it is right now.

    Displayed in the following image are 3 brains. The smallest represents the state of the AI when it was first released. The middle one represents the AI as it stands right now. What is mind-boggling is the sheer increase in the number of convolutions in the brain regulating the new AI in the expansion. Such an expansion in cerebral cortical area will mean an amazing difference when it gets released.



    Behold! Another picture illustrating the massive change between the present AI and the new AI:


  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahitian Moon View Post
    Anandus, my money is on Austria. They are remarkable enough to be in the game, and as Espionage comes to play from renaissance onward it would suit them well.
    I think I agree with you, they'd fit right in there.
    But it's speculation at this point.

  33. #33
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    I am taking it as read that the Zulu are already in the expansion, the other 3 are for nations apart from the ones I stated: Celts, Mayans, Netherlands, Byzantines and Carthaginians are the ones I would like to know what you think will turn up. From the evidence there will be no Portugal nor Vietnam.

  34. #34
    Been thinking bout the two new planes.
    Could other one be a UU replacing the biplane?
    Maybe germans get it and Landsknecht goes for Holy Roman empire?

    As we get the Industrial era scenario I think we get a new european civ too.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrtr View Post

    There will now be melee boats and ranged boats, allowing capture of coastal cities to be a bit easier.
    So what are "melee boats"?

    Is this like triremes ramming other boats, or like boarding parties?

    And it will be like storming coastal cities with a squad of torpedo boats in Call to Power 2?

  36. #36
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    Mainly boarding parties. Supposedly, melee ships can invade coastal cities.

  37. #37
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    It's gonna be Zulu, Portugal, Khmer and Sioux. Huns will be in the Fall of Rome scenario, but not as a standard Civ. Zo zpoke Zephyr.

  38. #38
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    Portugal will not be in. Not yet, at least. In one of the sceenshots, it shows a "Lisbon" City State. You can't have Portugal without its capital.

  39. #39
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    DAMN, you're right. This screenshot may be from a beta, though? Damn... Alright, let's go to the board: 4 vacant slots. Who's been in previous games that aren't in yet that we can consider?

    Austria, Ethiopia, Hittites, Holy Roman Empire, Khmer, Mali, Portugal, Sioux, Sumeria and Zululand.

    Zulu is mostly guaranteed so there goes one slot. Three left.

    Mali is kind of precluded by Songhai. They each owned mostly the same cities. They're out. Siam sort of took Khmer's spot, but not exactly. This Lisbon business seems to be precluding Portugal from the time being. HRE at the same time as Byzantine? I dunno...

    Sumeria and Hittites were in for the Ancient Wonders Scenario. Is it possible they'll pull them over to the main game? Some of their abilities were kinda weird and Hittites basically stole from Russia's ability. Seems unlikely.

    Ethiopia's a possibility. Sioux and Austria too, though they're sorta weak contenders. I wonder if they'll throw us a curve ball again like they did with Polynesia?

    Does the inclusion of Tengriism possibly suggest the Huns will be included as a baseline Civ? They're so much like the Mongols, though (who also have Tengriists) so it seems like a weak argument either way.

  40. #40
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    I would say, and this is entirely my suspicion, that instead of the Zulu they would choose another African civilization, such as Zimbabwe or Kongo, that have been doing so well in the recent polls. Either way, if they include any Sub-Saharan civ we'll hopefully have a new city art-style to work with

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