I propose we have a thread to summarize what we dislike about what we have heard about the game so far.
I'll start.
-I hate the fact that inventory management seems to have been "dumbed down" and the inventory grid has been removed.
-Only one base. Seriously?
-Only 6 soldiers? Max? 14 should be the minimum.
-The general "consolification" of the game.
The more I hear about the game, the more I lose my enthusiasm.
You pretty much summed it all up for 150 millions of original Xcom community.
Now whats left is to deliver our message to Firaxis and prey they listen.
OK first of all take the phrase dumbed down and remove it from your vocabulary. It is a meaningless phrase. Next time you want to say something is dumbed down, stop and think about what you really mean. Type that instead.
Now I believe that there are topics for each of your complaints. You may want to express yourself on them.
Given that another thread has popped up as a "counter" I'm going to re-open this one with the condition that it remain as a list rather than another "discussion" thread. There are several in which you can discuss the specific aspects, but let's leave this one as a simple list.
Last edited by Codex; 02-04-2012 at 12:53 PM.
- I don't like the camera angles seen in the screenshots released so far. They point towards a freeform camera rather than a fixed isometric view. I hate having to fiddle around with cameras while playing. If this is going to be the case in the actual game, then this is my no. 1 major complaint of the game. StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3 made the smooth and perfect transition from 2d isometric to 3d isometric. Devs should take notice.
- Maximum squad size of 6 seems a bit low.
- I prefer a top-down view of the base to the ant farm thing.
- I'm not a fan of not knowing your guy's class until later.
- I'm not a fan of permanent Will penalties for fatally injured guys (provided it's the only possible outcome after recovery).
- I prefer being able to have multiple bases spread around the world.
- Not happy about only having a single base.
Last edited by Ixnatifual; 02-07-2012 at 10:09 PM.
-Squad size. This right here is the biggest complaint I have. Indeed, it's the only one that I'm actually willing to complain about to any extent.
-Only one main base. (Could be mitigated by allowing airbases to have skyrangers and troops for fast response IMO)
-Possible connections to the FPS.
-Unlimited ammo (accept the reasoning and think it could work... But still miss ammo. On the plus side, the really important stuff, heavy weapon ammo, is in per the podcast.)
-No TUs. (don't mind this so much, but as a card-carrying X-Commie, I'm contractually obligated to be at least a little dubious at any change from the original.)
-Squad Size
-No ability to take items from dead enemies/friends
-One base - again as others have said, could be fixed by having 'airfields' around the world.
Other than that, I'm struggling to be honest.
As for the phrase 'dumbing down', it used by gaming journalists as well as us - it has a clear meaning and many, many games have suffered from it - and not only PC/console versions either, also sequels in some PC series, but this isn't the place to discuss it so I'll leave that there.
[EDIT]: To clarify: I just went with stuff I felt hadn't been mentioned yet, here.
-The game's general slide toward the "RPG" side of the term "RPG elements". I'm all for more depth in the squaddies, but I feel classes are restrictive compared to the original, and the over-emphasis on the team of perk-based unique snowflakes has harmed the game design by moving away from the large-scale warfare of the original. It seems that in attempting to "take the focus off the individual", they have in fact added too much of just that. Frankly, if I wanted a light RPG there are a million out there I could go for; an X-Com game needs no more than a light overlay of RPG traits.
-As a knock-on effect of the watering down of the inventory, the far-reaching inability to do things like pass items, make aliens drop items, haul troops and aliens and run smash-and-grab missions, all "cool things" and emergent elements that will be sorely missed.
-The general feeling that we're losing more than we've gained (and in my case, the few things we are gaining were never asked for and frankly I can take them or leave them).
-Everything's a blasted disbelief-suspender-snapping cooldown-based ability now. No. Thank. You.
-The design being built around a desire to appeal to everyone, resulting in the addition of things like "action elements", which I assume are the Oh-My-God-Did-You-See-That-Cool-Thing-For-The-Twenty-Fifth-Time camera angles that I suspect are going to irritate hell out of me. The trouble with adding, well, let's call it cross-genre appeal is that often things from one genre irritate fans of another, especially if they're intermixed. It's a case of "You got your X in my Y!". Add too many "action" elements and you begin annoying the strategy fans. Add to many RPG elements and you begin bugging the action fans. Etc, etc, etc. If you're not very careful (and since this is these guys' first time as a team making this particular sort of game, there's lots of opportunity for error) you find you only appeal to the most heavily overlapping section of the Venn diagram depicting the strategy-RPG-action-whatever gamer continuum.
Last edited by Brian Damage; 02-05-2012 at 02:33 AM.
- No TU
- No ammo
- No inventory
- Hidden classes
- Weapons with cooldown
They still didn't clarify if crouching is in or not, if not, add that to my list too.
Everything is said, so I'll just copy the ones I agree with:
- Only one main base. )
- Possible connections to the FPS (<- which is not X-COM. I can call "space invaders" X-COM, but that does not make it X-COM).
- The general "consolification" of the game.
- No inventory
- Hidden classes
- Squad Size
- No ability to take items from dead enemies/friends
I'm still optimistic though. As of now, I'm going to buy it.
I have to say that I have generally liked what I have heard and read. However, there are a few things that concern me...
-Limited squad size (I hear there reasoning for smaller squads, but I don't agree. In the original, I manned my SR with 10 soldiers and a tank. I would then split them up into groups as I combed the map looking for enemies).
- Single base (I don't even know if this is confirmed! It appears to be by the way everyone is going on about it, but I have yet to read/see/hear a single official statement confirming this. If it is, then it would be a negative as having multiple bases was a detrimental part of the game. Not just in coverage, but in response time of both the Interceptors and your Skyrangers.)
Note about the inventory, it has been clarified in the GI podcast that there will be inventory, it will just work differently fron the original. As with everything, I will have to wait and see how that plays out, andor we get more concrete information, before judging it though.
- Time Units replaced by Move/Action/Shoot/Perk system. Worried I won't be able to do all that I want to or be able to switch from soldier to soldier "mid-move" or move post-firing.
- Inventory. Worried that I can't share items, pick up items/corpses and retreat, move fallen comrade from danger, change tactics on the fly.
- Squad Size. Worried that smaller squads means smaller maps, Less complex UFO or building designs with fewer units to cover fewer directions, Smaller number of Aliens per battle, and losing some of the fun I had from carefully arranging my army before hitting "Next Turn".
Other than that, I'm pretty optimistic about the game and hungry for more details.
My list is more a list of "concerns" since without seeing them in action it is hard for me to flat out commit to them being things I don't like (exception being inventory change).
- Will stat. If the person is going to turn into a useless, panicky, mind controllable troop then I might as well just let him die
- No Inventory/Tactical Core Change. I can say this isn't a "concern" but a flat out don't like feature. Managing one's inventory and being able to pick various things up was a huge part of the core of the tactical combat of XCOM (to me that core is the freedom/management XCOM provides one with). This prevents all sorts of tactical choices and it creates balance issues with explosives.
-- Unlimited Ammo. This directly ties into No Inventory/tactical core issue. While I don't mind that "small arms" don't have magazine management (it would be nice only for immersion reasons, but it has no real impact on the balance of these weapons and at times can even be annoying and pointless micro-management to deal with), but explosives/heavy weapons (and look, almost all heavy weapon ammo is explosive!) having "unlimited" ammo even if it is restricted by having to wait so many turns to use again is just a horrible balance issue.
-- Class Weapon Restrictions. Again tying into No Inventory/tactical core change. I understand the issues in regards to perks (which could be fixed by placing restrictions on which weapons certain perks work with), but part of the tactical core of the original XCOM games was the freedom one had and these restrictions go directly against the freedom portion of the tactical core of the original games. Also it's kinda hard to pick up different weapons if there's no inventory to manage.
- Unable to pick a recruit's starting class. This means you will need to hire a bunch of soldiers only to then let them die or fire them once you find out they aren't the class you're looking for. It's more of an annoyance than anything, but at least you hopefully won't have to wait a whole month to find out their class.
- Squad Size. I'm hoping that the initial 4 is similar to how one only had 8 soldiers to start with in XCOM and that you can hire more. I hope the new EU uses a starting crew of 7 (that way you can swap a single soldier for a tank) and then max size being 14 (or 12+2tanks).
- Single Base. I "hope" that we can build multiple bases and that the point of the satellite coverage is so that you simply don't need to drop like 2-3mil+ on a single base where the only point is to increase your visual range and it doesn't even house any soldiers/craft (most easily done in the original by dropping a hyper-wave decoder, 4xFusion Ball Defenses, and a grav shield so that the aliens will never succeed in attacking it).
There's a rough list of my concerns so far. Remember that my only real issues without playing the game is the "No Inventory/Tactical Core Change" and it's sub-bullets.
Okay. For me, in order from least-disliked to most-outright-hated, so far:Originally Posted by szabolcs85
- Only one base;
- Small squad size
- No detailed soldier inventory;
- Not knowing what kind of soldier I've hired, until after the first mission (seriously; don't these guys have personnel dossiers ...?
)
- "ant farm" style, highly-abstracted base construction interface;
Yeah OP, some bits of the game make me uneasy, did not know you can only have 1 base though. Although i LOVE the original and still play, I will not be blind buying the game like i did CIV5 my faith has gone after that. If what the OP says is true, only 1 base and max 6 soldiers, although i only usually sent around 6-8 soldiers in a mission depending on experience i would still rather the choice.
i think i will stick with the Xenonauts remake. Been playing alpha on it and its pretty good and a nice new geoscape air combat concept.
Everything that szabolcs85 said, and:
-hate the way the Armor looks. it's ugly and it looks riped-off from gears of war.
-The connection with the FPS XCOM. I don't want any connection to a game that didn't even care about what the heck it's even attach to! If the FPS game doesn't want to be an xcom game in any way, then why should xcom: EU bent over backwards to say "yeah, that really happened in the xcom universe!" I feel like quoting Yahtzee on what he said about the prequel in his review of Force Unleashed.
-the Special Power or Power-Ups seems bad. really bad. It seems more like a Yu-Gi-Oh! game now, where instead of using smart strategy, you go "Behold! I will use my Special Power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat!"
Yeah because laying down supression fire or sniping at targets is clearly a superpower Oo
I mean the bonus powers, like getting to see you allies' target, or the muton's Blood Call. It makes something simple into something makes you go: "well, If I use this Power-Ups, and combine it with this power, I may get the alien in one shot!"
Not a discussion thread guys. Try to keep it to lists.
My list:
I dislike the part where we speculate on things that haven't officially been confirmed yet, and then rage on them.
People oppossed to the idea that this game could easily be made for both consoles and PC players. The original could be played with a mouse and its 2 buttons, so expanding on that wouldn't seem to be too difficult.
I DO dislike that, so far, all we have seen is a max party of 4 squad members in the screenshots, but for all we know, that could be xcom, month 1, week 2.
Last edited by Shaunair; 02-05-2012 at 10:57 PM.
Looks like my complaints are mostly addressed, but a couple points I'd mention.
Superhuman-like abilities (in their implementation) like suppression fire or sniping that are tied into a rigid class system, rather than a function of equipped weapons, which would allow flexibility in team composition.
Having to level up a specific class to be able to move after taking a shot, or take a snapshot. Limitations of tactical options based on RPG elements isn't what I want.
My list
- Number of units (If i want to send in 20 guys i should be able to send in 20 guys)
- Map Size (I like big maps and hunting for that last alien hiding in the toilet)
- No Inventory (WTF)
- Perks (umm no maybe you can train people to level up there skills but perks are just a cop out)
- No TU (I can do math add and subtract but i guess i am a minority now)
- Classes (Each guy should be able to do everything some will do it better that's what stats are for)
- Set missions/opjectives (X-Com is about freedom to win the war the way you see fit)
- Single Base (almost as WTF as no inventory)
- No Ammo (ummm i think we just jumped the shark and the game hasn't even come out yet)
- Will Stat (If they don't have the will to fight then they are probably shouldn't be in the military)
Even though I'm neutral on the TU issue (have to see how it works), but this was very funny!
Well here is my list of things I think they are screwing up:
- Time Units (Being allowed to auto, burst, or single shot with increased % chance to hit sometimes made a big difference. Plus you could usually fire more than once per turn if you had plenty of TU and didnt feel like moving.)
- 1 Base (Why are we being limited? Multiple bases will be required to cover the entire planet. This is just ridiculous.)
- No Ammo (If I didnt want to mess with ammo I would just use laser guns all the time. I like the fact that I have to take a pause between blasting aliens to reload as it is more realistic. Plus I loved the sound it made when you reloaded!)
- Squad Size (This should be up to the player not dictated by the game. As stated earlier you could make the player manage between number of troops by making them offset what items they would take along.)
- No Inventory (How is this even XCOM if I dont have inventory managment? Stop being lazy and get to coding because that is a cop out.)
- Maps (while some static maps would be nice to see of certain areas, I think it would be nice to also see some random farmhouses out in the boonies again.)
- Console Design (I play all my games on a PC for a reason. Please take the extra effort to design a game that can utilize the keyboard and mouse for those of us that have them.)
- TIME (I dont have a problem with time passing while we are on an away mission but to be fair, if a UFO pops up it should be shot down. Perhaps the ability to switch to the assault plane while in battlescape mode or auto-pilot kicks in for the radar control station to scramble fighters if a UFO is spotted.)
Classes - (This shouldn't be predetermined, I should be able to customize my troops as I desire.)
Perks - ( I like the idea if I get to choose them as my troops advance in rank.)
Its sad that I have waited so long for a remake of this game only to be given a sad shadow of the original. I'm going to go outside and scream now.
I hate the loss of ammo too, but you do still have to reload - you just have nonsensically infinite clips now, which, if we've understood the latest interview properly, they appear to have tried to make less noticeable by encouraging you to rush through battles as quickly as possible due to the base being mysteriously non-functional while your soldiers are in the field.
You do, but unfortunately they're locked to the trooper's class, it seems.Perks - ( I like the idea if I get to choose them as my troops advance in rank.)
*No picking up stuff off of dead guys. I heard Jake Solomon's reasoning on loadouts and "inventory tension", and I agree.
However, you could alleviate that by simply requiring a character to drop something of equal size in order to pick something up. Thus, I drop an unloaded rifle to pick up a rifle from the battlefield.
As for everything else: I had issues with TUs, squad size, and base restrictions, until I had them explained to me. I'll take Mr. Solomon at his word, and I 'spect this will still be stoopid fun.
- Only one main base.
- Unlimited ammo
- No ability to take items from dead enemies/friends
- No inventory (Not detailed, where the soldier has what)
- Cooldown-based ability or weapons
- No TU
- Class Weapon Restrictions
- Map Size (I like big maps, and when you are searching for the last aliens one gets sloppy and could get a soldier killed)
- The inevitable and understandable "Consolification"
Going to have to agree with everyone here. Although on the class subject, i'd like to be able to define my own classes and not be restricted with what the game gives me.
So you liked having to comb a great big map for that one last alien hiding in the top floor of the darkened farm in the far corner of the map? For me, that was one of the worst things about the original games!
It's been repeatedly confirmed that the PC UI wil be different to the consoles'.- Console Design (I play all my games on a PC for a reason. Please take the extra effort to design a game that can utilize the keyboard and mouse for those of us that have them.)
Just lists Squisher
1. I wish that the soldiers weren't riding flying poniesJust lists Squisher
2. I don't like that it is set in the 1400s
3. I wish it wasn't being made to only run on Vista operating systems.
Well played Sir, well played indeed.
-I don't like that we have to wait until the end of the flippin' year to play it.
yeap.my expectations might be high but sorry i want an X-COM
Small squad size.
To my original "I don't like" list I'd like to add:
-No TU's.
-The ant-farm style base. I have a bad feeling that it implies the removal of base defense missions. Also, I hope that I'll get to place my base(s) where I want. I'd like to place it where I live.
-The class system. It needn't be restrictive. I hope that my heavy weapons guy would be able to use a sniper rifle if neccesary, even if not with the same efficiency as a sniper would.
That's confirmed.
We know that equipment is like this, and they've implied that weapons may be as well.-The class system. It needn't be restrictive. I hope that my heavy weapons guy would be able to use a sniper rifle if neccesary, even if not with the same efficiency as a sniper would.
Not sure if i am in rigt place but this just does not seem to fit nowhere so...
YES/NO lets vote.Just let everyone know how you feel about what you have seen so far.Because i have seen a lot of bs here(on forums in general)and it looks to me like no one want to say what this game is.Name rip of for making money.Im huge fan i had high hopes but...Its not isue of is this going to be good or bad game i am sure in worst case its gonna be decent but i am sick of companies destroying games(look at newJAlliance,nice game but its not JAlliance).F... being politically correct im mad about this.I dont have power to change things but i have voice.All this with all due respect too ppl making this game if killing XCOM is not their decision.Just look at cartoony visuals.What sane XCOM fan would want that(ok if u want 14yo to buy).I know its business.I know its about money.I know that no one is going to give few months or years of their life just so i can have fun.But is there is no other way?Do guys in power think that ppl are reatarded and cant handle inventory,APs,(no weapon magazines FFS)...Why dont u put in joypad only controls so we dont have to trouble ourselfs with keybord and mouse.PLAYERS are not retarded and do appreciate deep,complex games.Stop re-imagining and make proper XCOM.Or change title into "Kill scary aliens for whole family".Disregard my bad english thats not the issue here.
Vlada, I sent you a PM as to what threads you could post that in. For now, this is just a list of what people don't like in actual gameplay. Please see other people's posts for what I mean by that or feel free to post in one of the links I sent you, so long as it's done in a respectful manner.
And preferably with a space or two after every period. Kinda hard to read that, the way it is now. Very wall-of-text-y. (Not meant to give offense, just offering constructive criticism.)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote