Dream Bonuses / Nightmare Bonuses

[spikethedee]

What would be the dream combination for a civilization if you could use any of the bonuses for any civ, but only 1 from each for each era? What would be the worst possible combination?

Dream:

Starting: Knowledge of Religion (Arab) - For Fundamentalism
Ancient: New Cities +1 pop (China)
Medieval: 1/2 Price Rush (America)
Industrial:+2 Production form Mountains (Mongols) - Not a great selection
Modern: Factories Triple Production (America)


Nightmare:

Starting: Knowledge of Ceremonial Burial (Japan)
Ancient: Knowledge of Pottery (France)
Medieval: 1/2 Cost Roads (France)
Industrial: 1/2 Cost Settlers (India)
Modern: +50% Caravan Gold (Egypt)

[JackHall2003]

Indian half cost settlers are great.

[spikethedee]

Indian half cost settlers are great.

By the Industrial Era, is it as effective as it would be earlier? As I said, there's not a great choice of Industrial bonuses. Was also thinking if Republic/CoL from Rome at start would be better than Religion, especially with +1 pop?

[sn1p3rk1ll3]

For modern a sweet sweet dream is in for the English!

[HydroDragon]

England's modern bonus is better than America's.

Edit: Bastard. :P

[elthrasher]

By the Industrial Era, is it as effective as it would be earlier? As I said, there's not a great choice of Industrial bonuses. Was also thinking if Republic/CoL from Rome at start would be better than Religion, especially with +1 pop?

Starting with Republic and +1 population would be completely insane, though Fundamentalism is so strong, it would be kind of tough to decide.

Half cost libraries is a decent industrial bonus. Half cost settlers is very good, but you're right it comes late. Double naval support is absolutely the best modern bonus in the game. Though with those other bonuses, I can't see why you'd ever be still playing the game in modern.

The Zulu medieval and industrial bonuses (using the term lightly) are far worse than what you've got listed. Starting with two techs would be ok in H2H because you could sell them to the AI a bunch. Not so good in FFA.

I believe there are some old threads very much like this one if you want to see what we thought about this a year ago.

[Legatus]

You can replace half cost settlers with the +2 cannon attack, since no one uses those damn things anyways.

Hmmm, looks like we're just slightly tweeking France.

You could switch the caravan gold to start, and have the loyalty bonus (Japan) in modern; it's only useful if you are turtling.

[elthrasher]

Hmmm, looks like we're just slightly tweeking France.

France with extra caravan gold in place of the cathedral. Done! You can't get any worse than that. Actually the Zulu medieval and industrial bonuses are still worse, heh.

And just give America +1 pop in place of 2% interest. You go from way too strong to still way too strong.

[ScottieX]

Dream:

Starting: Begin with knowledge of Navigation (spain)
Ancient: +1 warrior movement (Zulu)
Medieval: Rush units at half-price (America)
Industrial: Half-price Settlers (India)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

I'm thinking with the US bonus - owning territory and getting gold early will be king. nav plus +1 warrior movement wil get the job done - fundy is not needed as you dont need to kill him and he wont get anywhere near you probably. Besides - you get the artifacts.. SoC or 7cog or AW = game over even atlantis could be great!

Imagine how cheap those industrial settlers would be!

Nightmare:

Starting: Knowledge of Ceremonial Burial (Japan)
Ancient: Barbarian villages join (Mongol)
Medieval: Cities grow faster (Zulu) - synergy with the ancient bonus
Industrial: +50% gold production (Spain)
Modern: +50% gold production (Aztec)

+100% gold woohoo..

[sn1p3rk1ll3]

Dream:

Starting: Begin the game with a republic (Rome sweet Rome)
Ancient: New cities have +1 population (China)
Medieval: Rush units at half-price (America)
Industrial: Half-price Settlers (India)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

[ScottieX]

or in terms of synergy

Starting: Begin with knowledge of Navigation (spain)
Ancient: knowledge of democracy (Greece)
Medieval: Rush units at half-price (America)
Industrial: half priced libraries (China)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

why greece? well because two tech will be awesome in this context - you now only need 60 beakers to be in medievil! and depending on what else is going on - you can tech them 50% faster.. with Atlantis you wil ony need 20 beakers.. maybe buy pottery from france?
why libraries? well im guessing you expand in medievil already and now you just need to get to double nav suport to kill the other guy.

also interesting
Starting: Automatic upgrade for elite units(Germany)
Ancient: +1 Warrior movement (Zulu)
Medieval: Free Religion tech (India)
Industrial: half priced libraries (China)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

fund elite legions! youd have to elite those warriors though so might not be as easy in all games but you could often be first to 5 tech and game over next turn.

[SVPM]

Starting: Fundamenatalism
Ancient: +1 movement of warriors
Medieval; no need
Industrial: no need
Modern: no need

[ScottieX]

So far i think +2 movement and fundy will kill +1 pop and republic and probably +1 pop and fundy too.
More money faster and a strong attack. more AI caps etc.. you'd be lucky to live long enough to use the +1 to its greatest potential and if you use the republic you are toast even worse than everyone else.

Im pretty confident with my nightmare civ only thing i might change is making the CB a courthouse... (are you really going to grow your cap without any good bonus later on?)

[sn1p3rk1ll3]

Starting: warriors are vet
Ancient: +1 movement of warriors
Medieval; fundamentalism
Industrial: half cost wonders
Modern: double naval support

Since warriors are the way to go, SVPM-Zulu/Arab-style... this seems a good alternative
->Make'm last longer and be 1337 faster


All hail the best civ for

[Liam_Sutty]

I still think Cermonial Burial gets a hard time! I'd much rather sell that to the AI than Monarchy/Nav/Religion. The 15g-25g you can net is way better than +50% caravan gold!!

[asmodeios]

Start with ancient wonder.
Ancient: +1 movement
Medieval: 1/2 cost units
industrial: +1 cavalry attack
modern: double naval support

[HydroDragon]

I wouldn't rate a wonder that high. Colossus or the Oracle maybe, but I'd rather have a great person or something.

[REM018]

I think the overrun bonus is pretty sweet. First for overrunning all barb huts with a warrior army (not as great w/o the extra movement though). And later a CA or KA overruns single fortified archers. Still not comparable to the American medival bonus, but often overlooked.

[ScottieX]

I think the overrun bonus is pretty sweet. First for overrunning all barb huts with a warrior army (not as great w/o the extra movement though). And later a CA or KA overruns single fortified archers. Still not comparable to the American medival bonus, but often overlooked.

I guess without +1 movement you'd want nav or religion and legions then you hit 5 tech and hit them with a good attack that will over run a lot of stuff. the 5 tech bonus will help you to get together galleon fleets with nav etc.

[Liam_Sutty]

Just to add weight to the Ceremonial Burial argument last night I had a game as Japan and walked till 3500 finding nothing but settled 3500 on fish. I get a couple of warriors out and bump into greece 3100. There was no threatening them because of the hoplite but they introduced me to Russia who I could sell CB for 45g and threaten for the instant 50 which after a naming tile put me at 105g the same year. I can only assume they were sharing caravans with greece. That is well above average for getting your 100g settlers and gave me a massive boost in this game.

[Frelinder]

or in terms of synergy

Starting: Begin with knowledge of Navigation (spain)
Ancient: knowledge of democracy (Greece)
Medieval: Rush units at half-price (America)
Industrial: half priced libraries (China)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

why greece? well because two tech will be awesome in this context - you now only need 60 beakers to be in medievil! and depending on what else is going on - you can tech them 50% faster.. with Atlantis you wil ony need 20 beakers.. maybe buy pottery from france?
why libraries? well im guessing you expand in medievil already and now you just need to get to double nav suport to kill the other guy.

also interesting
Starting: Automatic upgrade for elite units(Germany)
Ancient: +1 Warrior movement (Zulu)
Medieval: Free Religion tech (India)
Industrial: half priced libraries (China)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

fund elite legions! youd have to elite those warriors though so might not be as easy in all games but you could often be first to 5 tech and game over next turn.

This one is in my opinion the best!

Starting: Begin with knowledge of Navigation (spain)
Ancient: knowledge of democracy (Greece)
Medieval: Rush units at half-price (America)
Industrial: half priced libraries (China)
Modern: Naval support doubled (England)

You can build hoplites from the start so just be certain to put up good defence and then 60 beakers to get half price units, a galleon for 30g... Nice! If you play against this..

Starting: Fundamenatalism
Ancient: +1 movement of warriors
Medieval; no need
Industrial: no need
Modern: no need

You should be able to defend easy thanks to hoplites. Yes the agressiv civ will most likely take all the AI caps but after that he can't do much..

Oh.. and if getting Atlantis then thats zero beakers needed to get to medival and half price units.. not 20 beakers..

*cheers*

[SVPM]

You should be able to defend easy thanks to hoplites. Yes the agressiv civ will most likely take all the AI caps but after that he can't do much..

Oh.. and if getting Atlantis then thats zero beakers needed to get to medival and half price units.. not 20 beakers..

*cheers*

If needed the civ I proposed would have had half-cost too in medieval... Can't do much after taking all the AI caps? With the +1 movement thus civ has all the golds adn will expand crazy in medieval with all that cash. I would probably prefer the other civs to play, but to say it's better, I'm far from thinking that...

Maybe +1 for knight in industrial would close the game all the time.

[ScottieX]

galleon support will partially offset the fundy issue as well as giving some defense bonus and will also partially offset the disadvantage in movement.

Then when you hit 5 tech (maybe because of atlantis or demo) you will have a few turns where if you can force him to defend the other guy will be much weaker come 5 techs... If you take one of his cities, you have fundy and naval support and are attacking much stronger than him.

Also remember 5 tech works well with a tech like nav because you can rush the galleons for galleon support in any city any turn, and also get a defender for free.

human vs human most of the time you are using counter attacks so as long as you dont give him overun you can counter his 2 movement fundy warriors unless he gets to you too fast.

[SVPM]

galleon support will partially offset the fundy issue as well as giving some defense bonus and will also partially offset the disadvantage in movement.

Then when you hit 5 tech (maybe because of atlantis or demo) you will have a few turns where if you can force him to defend the other guy will be much weaker come 5 techs... If you take one of his cities, you have fundy and naval support and are attacking much stronger than him.

human vs human most of the time you are using counter attacks so as long as you dont give him overun you can counter his 2 movement fundy warriors unless he gets to you too fast.

You really think nav and Demo is the best combo?

I guess nav can take the place of +1mov or fundy sometimes, but demo? No way I would take it instead of one of the other two. Nav + fundy would make powerful legion rush and you get to 5 techs quickly.

Even then I think fundy + +1movement is better.

[ScottieX]

No way I would take it instead of one of the other two. Nav + fundy would make powerful legion rush and you get to 5 techs quickly.
Even then I think fundy + +1movement is better.

are not nav and fundy the same type of bonus? yeah i'd have that if it was possible but Im treating it as if it is not.

[Hellogoodbye123]

playing against elthraser would be a nightmare.. lol

my dream is to play against easyyyy competition like sniperkiller :P hahahah

[sn1p3rk1ll3]

playing against elthraser would be a nightmare.. lol

my dream is to play against easyyyy competition like sniperkiller :P hahahah

maybe in a week or 2 I can play... maybe not

[Hellogoodbye123]

maybe in a week or 2 I can play... maybe not

lets just wait for a while because my homework is like a zombies game
once 1 wave is another.. another wave comes literally the next week.. lol
and now midterms and midterm papers are coming closer and closer... im scared! hahah and i got no ray gun lol

[MultiPlayaBeast]

By the Industrial Era, is it as effective as it would be earlier? As I said, there's not a great choice of Industrial bonuses. Was also thinking if Republic/CoL from Rome at start would be better than Religion, especially with +1 pop?

Don't agree with that. Religion is beast and most people can't handle it so early... believe me, I know.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

England's modern bonus is better than America's.

Edit: Bastard. :P

I totally agree with that one. Double navy support is monster. I finally seen what power it will do and it gave me a heartache what I seen.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

France with extra caravan gold in place of the cathedral. Done! You can't get any worse than that. Actually the Zulu medieval and industrial bonuses are still worse, heh.

And just give America +1 pop in place of 2% interest. You go from way too strong to still way too strong.

No more strong America!

[MultiPlayaBeast]

Starting: Fundamenatalism
Ancient: +1 movement of warriors
Medieval; no need
Industrial: no need
Modern: no need

The second hardest post ever... I agree with that... no one can stop that civ they had those two starting bonuses!

[MultiPlayaBeast]

I think the overrun bonus is pretty sweet. First for overrunning all barb huts with a warrior army (not as great w/o the extra movement though). And later a CA or KA overruns single fortified archers. Still not comparable to the American medival bonus, but often overlooked.

I like that idea... overrun has helped me stop that militia in every city deal alot. Overrun stops alot of things slick players try.

[Hellogoodbye123]

The second hardest post ever... I agree with that... no one can stop that civ they had those two starting bonuses!

yes they can, if this civ started on the 5 tile island...

BUT, NOT JUST ANY 5 TILE ISLAND...
its the one in the north, that has to travel 20+ tiles in either direction to hit that one peninsula....

only experienced players will know what im talking about.. haha because maps are not random, theres like hundreds or something with different spam points, and that is the worst map/spawn point lol.. ive gotten it twice, and played the map 5-6 times.. once it was twice in a row, but second time i was in mainland lol

[ScottieX]

yes they can, if this civ started on the 5 tile island...

BUT, NOT JUST ANY 5 TILE ISLAND...
its the one in the north, that has to travel 20+ tiles in either direction to hit that one peninsula....

I hate that map where you start on a big island - but it is basically empty and cut of by sea from anything good. you are tempted to settler walk but find nothing then you build a galley and find nothing...

[MultiPlayaBeast]

yes they can, if this civ started on the 5 tile island...

But, not just any 5 tile island...
Its the one in the north, that has to travel 20+ tiles in either direction to hit that one peninsula....

Only experienced players will know what im talking about.. Haha because maps are not random, theres like hundreds or something with different spam points, and that is the worst map/spawn point lol.. Ive gotten it twice, and played the map 5-6 times.. Once it was twice in a row, but second time i was in mainland lol

lmbo, i know exactly the map you talking about!

[Hellogoodbye123]

you guys are civ addicts lol if you know the map :P

[sdu754]

I still think Cermonial Burial gets a hard time! I'd much rather sell that to the AI than Monarchy/Nav/Religion. The 15g-25g you can net is way better than +50% caravan gold!!

Ceremonial bury is a starts with bonus, 50% Caravan gold is an ancient bonus, I know you get them both together, but they're technically different types of bonuses. I would also rather sell the AI ceremonial burial too, but that's because it is useless whereas monarchy, navagation & religion are something you don't want the AI to turn around and sell to your opponent.

Just to add weight to the Ceremonial Burial argument last night I had a game as Japan and walked till 3500 finding nothing but settled 3500 on fish. I get a couple of warriors out and bump into greece 3100. There was no threatening them because of the hoplite but they introduced me to Russia who I could sell CB for 45g and threaten for the instant 50 which after a naming tile put me at 105g the same year. I can only assume they were sharing caravans with greece. That is well above average for getting your 100g settlers and gave me a massive boost in this game.

Such a lucky start can not be depended on, and the only thing ceremonial burial is good for is trading to the AI. Being able to get 95 gold from a single AI that early is very unlikely. Atleast as France with Pottery, if someone gets a tech from a hut, it will usually be pottery rather than horseback riding, and you can use it to influence a builder.

Nitemare Bonuses
Start with: Ceremonial Burial (Japan)
Ancient: Barbs join us (Mongols - is the reason they are weak)
Medeviel: Rapid City Growth (Zulu - Cities actually grow slower if they drop to one pop)
Industrial: +50% Gold (Spanish & Zulu - building & units cost 50% More)
Modern: +50% Caravan Gold (Egypt - No one builds caravans at this time & I heard that it doesn't work)

Medeviel Notes:
More great people (Greeks is a worse bonus for them, because they get no culture while in democracy, so it gives them nothing at all, whereas if you make sure not to let your pop drop to one rapid pop growth don't hurt you, and could give bigger cities later on after expansion.)
Temples produce 3 Science (Aztecs - only good if you get the Ark, otherwise useless)

Dream Bonuses
Start with: Units Heal After Victory (Aztecs)
Ancient: Religion (Arabs)
Medeviel: 1/2 cost units (American)
Industrial: +1 Cavalry Attack (Arabs)
Modern: Double Naval Support (Enland)