To clarify, I'm not saying that the unit cap is a console limitation - I'm simply pointing out that the PC version in all likelihood won't have to put up with it, thanks to mods.
To clarify, I'm not saying that the unit cap is a console limitation - I'm simply pointing out that the PC version in all likelihood won't have to put up with it, thanks to mods.
Originally Posted by SectoidSquisher
To clarify, I'm not saying that the unit cap is a console limitation - I'm simply pointing out that the PC version in all likelihood won't have to put up with it, thanks to mods.
I wouldnt get to exciting about modability, because it has not been confirmed yet.
I've read the PC Gamer article over and over again. Firaxis have as good as confirmed it, albeit unoficially. Apart from anything else, I can think of very few games where the modders haven't found a way in to some extent.
Here's the exact quote:
The journalist didn't bring up modding - Jake did. This was after he'd officially confirmed the PC's UI will have nothing to do with that of the consoles. Thank God.Jake keeps going before I even get the chance to ask about mods. "Because it's on Unreal Engine 3 too, the idea is that there's the ability for modability. It won't be anything we're committing to for release, but it's very, very easy using Unreal titles to then give people access to the scripts."
I'd bet on mod tools three months after release. And mods to increase the battlefield soldier count and remove those incredibly brief cutscenes, oh, about twelve seconds after that.
There's a difference between confirming you'll be doing something and mentioning that it's something you'd like to do but "Won't commit to for release". As well, once again I have to bring up the seeming paucity of Unreal 3 game modding which has led me to suspect Epic doesn't like to allow it, so I hope they don't force something into the EULA that allows modders to be taken to court. On the other hand, there's a whole bunch of people, for instance, who were itching to mod Mass Effect 1/2 and it would appear they've never really gotten beyond altering saved games - in that case we can directly point to the developers as the reason; one of the devs gave a long spiel about why they wouldn't be releasing their custom tools (too much time and money to get them into a community workable state or something like that).
It's mildly reassuring, sure, but until it's absolutely confirmed I'm not going to bank on it. I also can't help thinking that out-of-the-box moddability would help in terms of sales in the PC sector, but I can't think of many games that have that. Far Cry and Crysis, maybe. How were they when it came to modding?Here's the exact quote:
The journalist didn't bring up modding - Jake did. This was after he'd officially confirmed the PC's UI will have nothing to do with that of the consoles. Thank God.
You're right - not many games do have out of the box modability, but late is better than never, eh?
And confirmed is better than unconfirmed, and in my case at least immediate is better than late when attempting to entice a full-price, early-cycle sale. But then I feel they're keener to sell this on consoles, where moddability is a moot point (at the moment) anyway.You're right - not many games do have out of the box modability, but late is better than never, eh?
On the topic of mods, consider this too: "number of units in your squad" might NOT be mod-able. There might be a hard limit present due to the UI. Getting around THAT, would be a heck of a project for anyone to undertake ... especially, without introducing a laundry-list of new bugs.
Exactly. If there are certain assumptions (like: the max. squad size is 6) and the whole code is programmed on these assumptions (for example the available space in aircraft) then its not just a matter of changing a number in some property-file. It might introduce a lot of problems which possibly can not be modded away.
And on the topic Unreal 3 engine and modding: Maybe Epic Games does not allow modding, because licensing the engine is their business model. If one game is realeased thats as moddable as Half-Life, then modders could change the game completly (there are half-life mods which turn the game into a soccer game, racing games, rts, ...). So they probably want to limit that free competition.
I was never thinking it would be just a matter of setting max_troops = "16" in some XML or INI file :P. For one thing I've worked with UIs quite a lot in the past (and I'm fairly certain I was originally hired because of an OpenGL-based GUI I programmed from the ground up for a university project), for another, I've always assumed there'd be a fair bit of work involved with upping the squad size - we might even have to change the Skyranger model. And that's where we get to the fun stuff. A Scaleform UI isn't too hard to mess with - you just need access to something that can create/edit swf files and actionscript (not hard) and access to the UnrealScript files that plug into the relevant .swf file's inputs and outputs.
Except they already give out the UDK, with which you can make games, for free. I was wondering if it was more them not wanting to encourage people to make games on a third-party licensed version of U3 because they then lose the ability to tempt them into selling said games, and therefore a cut of any of the profits that might result - that's what they do with the UDK, you see. You can make games and give them away for free, or you can sell the games... and give Epic a cut of any profits above a certain minimum total amount.And on the topic Unreal 3 engine and modding: Maybe Epic Games does not allow modding, because licensing the engine is their business model. If one game is realeased thats as moddable as Half-Life, then modders could change the game completly (there are half-life mods which turn the game into a soccer game, racing games, rts, ...). So they probably want to limit that free competition.
Last edited by Brian Damage; 02-12-2012 at 02:46 AM.
Well that's kinda bizarre too. Why don't they just extend the same "distribute it for free or license our engine" limitation to third party developers that they give to the second-party ones?
There's also the pressing matter of breaking gameplay balance easily, since either alien numbers should also increase by the same percentage or you'll outnumber them in proportion of squads.
And then the maps probably need to be bigger, too, because they are designed for small numbers. I'm very sceptical.
Probably because the third parties might have put work into their own alterations to the engine, which would require extra financial wrangling over who gets what percent of the royalties.
I don't think people will be afraid to give it a try. I'm not, assuming I've got the time. Heck, I've never said it wouldn't require a certain amount of work. Come to think of it, IIRC Unreal 3 maps can be opened in the UDK if they're not protected... I wonder if they'll have open borders like the old maps? We might be able to stitch them together and recompile, at least to test things on... if not, it seems like they're mostly made out of libraries of 3D tile objects for destructibility anyway - if we can re-use those it's not like we'll be having to model everything from scratch. I'm fairly confident.
Since this thread was intended simply to clarify an aspect of the rules, discussion of PC vs. Console features in this game is really off topic. I've been letting it slide because there was not a thread about this specifically, but now there is. Please carry on any further discussion on this topic there.
Thanks.
Um. If you just want to shut the conversation down for breaching the directive given in the OP, fine - you're a moderator and that's certainly within your authority.
But please, don't insult anyone's intelligence; call a spade a spade, rather than trying to sneak in a plug for your own thread. *shrug*
I created the thread for the sole purpose of trying to divert this conversation to a more appropriate place. Nothing more, nothing less.
I hope this game is being developed for PC and then downgraded for decrepit consoles, just like Withcer 2.
After all, consoles are extremely obsolete 7 year old decrepit hardware, a lot of games have been degraded due to multiplatforming.
In a thread that specifically mentions "no console wars" as it's title, the above post is a fine example of doing the wrong thing. Let's try to express ourselves in a less negative way. Thanks.
Excuse me, but since when is stating obvious facts an objectionable offense?
Terms like "decrepit" are inflamatory and will cause people to get offended. If you want to talk about this, PM me, but moderation decisions aren't supposed to be discussed on the boards.
I've been waiting for a true X-Com sequel for so long it sends my head spinning...
Last time I (re)played my X-Com games was the year I started college. So that would be, what? Twelve? Thirteen years ago?!? Feels like it was in another life now.
Anyway, it thought it was ironic that the last time I played my old school classics, PC gaming was supposedly doomed according to most industry analysts. And now that a new X-Com game is (at long last) in the pipes, it seems like industry analysts are predicting the death of consoles!!! True story, check it out:
http://games.ign.com/articles/122/1220883p1.html
Just so I'm clear, I'll most probably be playing XC-EU on the 360.
Yes, I'm one of those guys. And you know what? That's ok with me.
I'm really rooting for the good folks at Firaxis and will be trying my damnedest to evangelize the pagan console masses to the joys of Sectoid hunting later this year!!!
Cheers to all X-Com fans!
I predict the death of industry analysts.
It's probably the only thing we all can agree on anyway.
Sorry, but I, sadly, must beg to differ.
In an industry that out-profits the movie business year on, their species has a long a prosper future ahead.
Well, that and the fact that most humans love to feel like they know better than everyone else.
The console/PC war is about to end, in the PC's favour!I've been waiting for a true X-Com sequel for so long it sends my head spinning...
Last time I (re)played my X-Com games was the year I started college. So that would be, what? Twelve? Thirteen years ago?!? Feels like it was in another life now.
Anyway, it thought it was ironic that the last time I played my old school classics, PC gaming was supposedly doomed according to most industry analysts. And now that a new X-Com game is (at long last) in the pipes, it seems like industry analysts are predicting the death of consoles!!! True story, check it out:
http://games.ign.com/articles/122/1220883p1.html
Just so I'm clear, I'll most probably be playing XC-EU on the 360.
Yes, I'm one of those guys. And you know what? That's ok with me.
I'm really rooting for the good folks at Firaxis and will be trying my damnedest to evangelize the pagan console masses to the joys of Sectoid hunting later this year!!!
Cheers to all X-Com fans!
Seriously though - I don't see consoles dying out any time soon. If they do, it might force PCs to become more 'standardised', which can't be a bad thing - instead of the vastly different amounts of hardware configurations that are common nowadays.But PC gaming has been exploding. More people spend more time playing games than ever before. Meanwhile, the top five games companies by value have halved in value, and those that have dropped out of the list- traditional games publishers - have been replaced by free-to-play and social companies.
I thought they ended when GTA4 was released, when it was clearly shown how much better (graphics, controls, everything) it was on the PC?The console/PC war is about to end, in the PC's favour!
****but the console owners refuse to lay down their arms****
I joke, mods.
I love how we have a pseudo-console war in the no console war thread. =__=
Well its really more of a skirmish.. j/k
I'm not holding my breath for mods. Maybe a year or two after release, unless it turns into a huge genre-busting smash hit. Which it won't. It's too far away from the 2-second-attention-span crowd's idea of a fun little past-time.
I wouldn't agree with that at all - look at the Total War series. That's definitely miles away from the '2 second attention span' you mention, yet the place is crawling with mods for it, among which some are genuinely game-changing - for the better.
TUs and ammo. Removal of hidden classes. Removal of classes and restoration of progressing stats. I bet we'll see these within the first 3 months, and they'll be tweaked and expanded for years. This current design leaves much to be desired for a lot of people, and since they express a wish to make it moddable (which I've got to give Firaxis huge props for, they make things HIGHLY moddable generally), those with the know how will make this the X-Com they want, not the X-Com they were given.
TW: Empire is a pretty good example. I mean, Empire was crap. If you use the slightest bit of tactics, you're going to roflstomp the AI if they don't outnumber you 2 to 1 or better. Nevermind the damaged and schizophrenic campaign AI. Enter the Ultimate Commander Darthmod. Evenly matched, a battle could go either way. As you change your tactics, the AI will attempt to match you tit for tat, even showing initiative at times. Modding turned a pretty horrid game into what I'd consider a pretty damned good game. It's far closer to what Creative Assembly should have released, instead of what they did release.
Now, I'm not trying to say Firaxis is making a bad game. I think it will be a very nice, highly polished game, with a good foundation to mod from. And I think, because of the design choices they've made, there will be a large group of people hungry for mods.
Darth is the master of all TW modders for me.
Keep it on topic, guys. If you want to talk about mods and modding, take it to another thread.
Thanks.
As a final note, in all fairness, it will probably be a simple variable # switch since the squad is dropped in the middle of combat (skyranger unloading is NOT modeled) AND the size of your squad increases during the course of the game, meaning there is an easy variable to modify (which the game modifies) when you make that appropriate advance. So yea, it should be easy to mod on a PC.
I really really like that there aren't any console war discussions allowed. It is so old and annoying. Well done 2K!!
so...its not coming out for my iPad?
no only android
Ya i cant see the consoles dying out anytime soon if ever simply because....(NOTE: this is not designed to be an inflamatory comment im am simply stating a fact) whether or not its true ther will be ppl who dont want to get a PC because they view it as 2 costly if consoles do die out however games will probably tranisition over to ipads,androids,etc. cuz thats were most of the casual gamers will go....Gaming gods help us if that ever happens....games will cease to be games and will be....angry birds style *shudders*
The most logical progress in computing will be tablet based. The power and usability of computers/consoles but in a tablet. Now that will be something.
Plug/Link to a big screen and controller for gaming purposes, use the touch screen or a linked keyboard or voice recognition for writing emails., or other things you would usually never use a console for.
What consoles really have going for them at the moment, is that they are standardised, easy to use, and are purely for gaming. They don't work well for other tasks, when we can have everything in something that's mobile as well, then i shall be in heaven.
Some people like to do it, sitting on a couch, some people like doing it in their bed, some people like to do it sitting at a desk, everyone is doing it...(laugh if you get that reference). Wouldn't it be nice if a company gave you a product that could allow you to any of those things, that is what they should be focusing on. In my opinion.
Well, maybe with Splashtop 2 ... I hope it works better than it does with Civ V.
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