XCOM:EU Art style

**heniv** · 01-09-2012

Discussion of XCOM and related games art style.
Do not confuse art with a graphics, they are not the same, but both are relevant.

I must say that I love the art style of the old XCOM:EU game. Units, Weapons, Armour, Terrain, Ships... everything have a clear and clean style and great colours. Almost a cartoon-like style. TFTD kept to that same pallet with a slight modification for the new underwater theme.

Then along came Apocalypse, imo the biggest failure in the series (art wise). The visuals of Apoc was horrible and I don't understand how they got past the concept stage. Weapons, Armour, Vehicles, Soldiers, Aliens, none appealed to me at all. The smooth clean and minimized concept of EU was gone, replaced with some 40's 50's big-and-bulky type of style and bad colours.
Do anyone have anything positive to say about it?

UFO:Aftershock is my second best (third counting TFTD) choice in this "series". They made several good style choices but was lacking due to the graphics of the time. They did however continue on the line of realism type of art. Something that I don't think is always better.

Personally I prefer a stylized type of art.
- World of Warcraft, rather than Age of Conan, Warhammer Online
- Leauge of Legends, rather than Heroes of Newerth, DotA 2.
- StarCraft 2, rather than Supreme Commander 2 and so on....

**vorius** · 01-09-2012

Yeah, regarding XCOM Apocalypse... while I really enjoyed the game the art style was pretty hard to swallow....

You forgot to mention UFO Extraterrestrials... whose art style looks like it was done by the high school basketball team.

**Ruivoml** · 01-09-2012

The art of X-Com Apocalypse were rushed so that they could dedicate more resources to the gameplay, And even then they weren't able to put everything they wanted to (you can see that in the game files, where you have a lot unused stuff. And i mean A LOT).

Despite that though, i liked it a lot. The thing with Apocalypse is that when it got released many of you were already past the age to fall in love with a game in the same way you did with the original EU. I only got to play EU (and TFTD) by 97 so i played the three games basically at the same time. And today, the art in Apocalypse bring the same kind of nostalgia that the art in EU and TFTD does. I also loved the fact that the new aliens in Apoc were 90% organic based (with the remaining 10% going to the UFO equipment, which looked like they were stolen from some other alien race).

For the new EU, i only hope that they do NOT go with cartoony art (like we have in Afterlight). But the truth is, for the game to be released on this fall all that is already decided and set in stone.

**Brian Damage** · 01-09-2012

I could swear I heard somewhere that they were actually forced by someone in charge to use plasticine models for Apocalypse because it was the "in" thing or something. Stop-motion grpahics can work when you do it right (see: Doom), but obviously it didn't in Apoc's case.

**szabolcs85** · 01-09-2012

I hope the same. The aliens should be aliens, not villains from a 1970's cartoon.

**podtech115** · 01-09-2012

(Sigh) I guess I have to be the one....

Then along came Apocalypse, imo the biggest failure in the series (art wise). The visuals of Apoc was horrible and I don't understand how they got past the concept stage. Weapons, Armour, Vehicles, Soldiers, Aliens, none appealed to me at all. The smooth clean and minimized concept of EU was gone, replaced with some 40's 50's big-and-bulky type of style and bad colours.
Do anyone have anything positive to say about it?

Yes. I liked it.

I liked it so much, that I made a BrainSucker copy of it, using my Zbrush.

I really can't see why people like the cartoony aliens in 1 & 2, but hate the photorealistic aliens in 3.

**Ruivoml** · 01-09-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

I really can't see why people like the cartoony aliens in 1 & 2, but hate the photorealistic aliens in 3.

Because of Anthropod

**Cpl_Facehugger** · 01-09-2012

Originally Posted by Ruivoml

Because of Anthropod

He was just a symptom of the bigger issue.

Namely, veins. Veins as far as the eye can see. Most of the aliens were blobs of veins with eyes and teeth. Alien design (not in terms of mechanics, but in terms of art) was terribly uninspired in Apocalypse. Also the aliens were oddly colored. The original had this too, buuuuuuuuut it also had aliens who weren't wearing bright jumpsuits/had bright skin. In apocalypse, every alien was bright blue, or bright green, or bright purple.

Also, the retro styling was a shift from the first two games. It has its own charm, but I'd have liked to see it be a one shot wonder rather than showing up in the next game. It definitely wouldn't work today since we're already inundated with art deco 1950s stuff, what with Fallout 3, Bioshock, the XCOM shooter, etc.

**Ruivoml** · 01-09-2012

Originally Posted by Cpl_Facehugger

He was just a symptom of the bigger issue.

Namely, veins. Veins as far as the eye can see. Most of the aliens were blobs of veins with eyes and teeth. Alien design (not in terms of mechanics, but in terms of art) was terribly uninspired in Apocalypse. Also the aliens were oddly colored. The original had this too, buuuuuuuuut it also had aliens who weren't wearing bright jumpsuits/had bright skin. In apocalypse, every alien was bright blue, or bright green, or bright purple.

Also, the retro styling was a shift from the first two games. It has its own charm, but I'd have liked to see it be a one shot wonder rather than showing up in the next game. It definitely wouldn't work today since we're already inundated with art deco 1950s stuff, what with Fallout 3, Bioshock, the XCOM shooter, etc.

Well the 50's shooter is, like you said, a 50's shooter. You can't very well include modern art on a game thats set in 1950. Unlike Fallout 3. But i digress.

The 50's art deco in Apocalypse was explained as a requirement by those politicians that were financially backing-up the Mega Primus project. But again, its a taste thing.

On the aliens, indeed they were too bright. But what i disliked particularly about the anthropod was the fact that basically its live picture had no articulations. It made you wonder how the hell it could hold a weapon with stiff arms like that. And about the veins, well they are the common aspect that show that those aliens share something in common. In this case, that they all were born the same way (egg>multiworm>hyperworm>chrysalis). Aliens that are not born that way (Micronoid, psymorph, etc) have no "veins".

**podtech115** · 02-28-2012

Originally Posted by Ruivoml

On the aliens, indeed they were too bright. But what i disliked particularly about the anthropod was the fact that basically its live picture had no articulations. It made you wonder how the hell it could hold a weapon with stiff arms like that.

Sorry for bringing this topic back from the dead, I was going to reply to it sooner, but then I thought 'why bother?' then I said 'no', then I said yes, then no. But then I thought I should say *something*, because I feel strongly about original works and I think there should be more of it. (That, and I wanted to show 2 videos of some *real* aliens)

mass effect aliens:
http://www.xboxgazette.com/i/pic_mass_effect_races.jpg

Aside from the Hanar alien, *all* the aliens look the same. 2 eyes, 2 arms, 2 hands, 2 legs, 1 mouth, 1 head. They all look like Rubber Forehead Aliens straight from star trek! I can't even take the Asari aliens seriously, because they look just like humans!

I could go on and on, but I'll just say this: who cares what others thinks of the weird aliens? Who cares if the Anthropod doesn't have articulations! There isn't a single alien or monster that looks like; or even have the same skin texture as the Anthropod.

In fact, from over 20 years of sci-fi games, do you know ***ANY*** aliens or monsters looks near to the Psimorph? I know someone would say something rude like "it's body has vaginas all over it! ROFL!" Or someone else might say 'it's looks silly! how does it see without eyes?' And I would rebut with: 'WHO CARES? Are you really saying that it would be better if it looked like a blue human-- sorry, Asari?' Because that's all you'll get if you don't let the creaters try something weird. Fortune favors the bold!

As for games of today: they're all boring! I'm not joking when I say the aliens from Gears of War and Resistance look alike. Both share certain designs, like glowing yellow eyes, black armer, and other things that most evil aliens have. And don't get me started on Gears of War/Unreal Tournament 3/Infinity Blade/Bulletstorm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Do you really want all aliens to be that of Star Trek?

And this is what I want aliens to look like:
alien 1
alien 2

**Severene** · 02-28-2012

Sounds like you want to see something that came from Cthulu or perhaps was made with the Spore Creature creator. I would rather battle bipods but wouldnt mind seeing some tentacle creatures thrown in for good measure.

**podtech115** · 03-01-2012

Well, I give-up.

But I will say this though: I haven't changed my mind, And I have many reasons for that.

Now I'll just wrap up some replys.

Originally Posted by Nosmirc

You know why we don't see the Hanar fight? Because their bodies are not well designed for fighting, especially against technologically advanced opponents. It's why they work with whatever race Thane is (Thane was pretty uninteresting to me as a character, so I didn't pay that much attention to his backstory lol).

I think Mass Effect is a giant piece of garbage! I don't even know where to start with the story and dialogue, it's all so awful! In fact, i don't know which one is worse: Mass Effect or the dialogue from the FPS xcom ("Well, Hello Dolly!!!, That's One Heck Of A Weapon!!!") I can show you 10 videos on Mass Effect, and show you how bad it all is.... but nevermind. You like what you like, and I like what I like.

And another reason I hate it: In Mass Effect 3, the Reapers are attacking the Earth, and the game thinks we should care if the planet gets destroyed or not (yeah, right). Or they may destroy the galaxy (Yeeah.... place your bets here). I really think the Reapers are going to be destroyed long before Earth does, or they will retreat back in to space. But it all comes down to the fact that the Reapers are just so weak, that I just don't care!

And then there is this:
http://kotaku.com/5886674/bioware-wr...l-her-a-cancer
(just read the DocSeuss parts)

Originally Posted by Alucardex

What ecosystem would bring forth something with tons of heads?

Pierson's Puppeteers

**Nosmirc** · 03-01-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

I think Mass Effect is a giant piece of garbage! I don't even know where to start with the story and dialogue, it's all so awful! In fact, i don't know which one is worse: Mass Effect or the dialogue from the FPS xcom ("Well, Hello Dolly!!!, That's One Heck Of A Weapon!!!") I can show you 10 videos on Mass Effect, and show you how bad it all is.... but nevermind. You like what you like, and I like what I like.

I really only enjoyed the first one...but come on, the XCOM fps lines are just pure BLEH! compared to the mehs in ME

And another reason I hate it: In Mass Effect 3, the Reapers are attacking the Earth, and the game thinks we should care if the planet gets destroyed or not (yeah, right). Or they may destroy the galaxy (Yeeah.... place your bets here). I really think the Reapers are going to be destroyed long before Earth does, or they will retreat back in to space. But it all comes down to the fact that the Reapers are just so weak, that I just don't care!

You know, I've been pondering that too. One of those cases of plot hole created by the need to make the game completable I guess.

Kinda like how an invading alien force shouldn't have any problems wiping us out. Heyo!

**podtech115** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by heniv

My point: They ****ed up the art in Apocalypse, items, armour, weapons, soldier looks, soldier avatars and more.
Bioware succeeded in their art of making a Bio-type of armour.

One is aesthetically pleasing and logical, the other one is not.

Well, I don't know about that.

The Collector armour looks like every other sci-fi armour I have seen for the last 10 years, at least. I bet it was made by the same people of Duke Nukem Forever, or Gears of War, or Vanquish, or Quantum Theory, or Rage, or Crysis.... I'm not saying it's bad, it's just I've seen it all before, and it's feels so bland. (But it is better then what we're getting with the FPS xcom.)

As for the Apocalypse Armour: other then just saying 'ell it looks well it looks different ' I really don't know what to say. But! I still think it could have been a good piece of Armour if it was made a bit differently. lo:
http://pics.mobygames.com/images/cov...8260539-00.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/images2/i...apocalypse.jpg
The point is: if we give it a bit of a change, I'm sure it will look just fine.

As for "items, armour, weapons", now your just being a fanboy. Tsk,Tsk

. The weapons (like the Marsec M4000 Machine Gun) it was a cross between 1940s guns, and sci-fi like that of Men In Black guns . So I don't see the problem. The weapons look cool and new.

As for the soldier avatars .... you got me there, it looks bad. (he looks like Dave Lister from Red Dwarf)

You know, you are lucky that you didn't get the guys who made the star control aliens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH57VFpUGj8

Originally Posted by anotherdevil

I just love the line "and the game thinks we should care if the planet gets destroyed" ... I mean, why would humans care if their home planet got utterly devastated. I mean, who cares right? Mum and dad dead? Meh

It's not new. Not in gaming, not in anywhere. In the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the Earth goes Boom in the first pages of that book, and I care about that, as much as I do for ME3's Earth.

Originally Posted by anotherdevil

As for why the reapers are taking their time... who knows? Maybe that's something we will find out. If they don't explain it, then I'll be disappointed.

Are you disappointed?

**Alucardex** · 03-01-2012

Well Mass Effect is not for everyone and you are entitled to have your own opinion, but personally I find it's writing to be on the stronger site (compared to other games)
However that article you posted there makes me sick!

So a bioware WRITER (!!!!) admited she doesn't like games and is horrible at them and people start calling her a cancer???
One may agree or disagree to someones opinion, but when you have to resort to personal attacks you completely disqualify yourself from any discusiion.
Those people spamming on her twitter accounts should all be persecuted for harassement.

So what if some people like the storyline more than the actual gameplay?
In fact: I have watched let's plays of many games I didn't like the gameplay of, but wanted to see the cutscenes etc.
The gaming marked is big enough to offer games for everyone.

**podtech115** · 03-01-2012

Well, I don't know what her writing is like, but I heard Dragon Age 2 was bad. I was just pointing out why I don't like Mass Effect, and maybe she was part of the problem.

We're getting off topic again, and I have no idea what else to add to the art style topic!

**Gen_Pho** · 03-01-2012

How about: The art looks pretty sweet.I'm excited to see what they have done with Etherals and Chrysallids! In game that is...not in a preview.

**Alucardex** · 03-01-2012

Yeah back on topic:

I wonder how they will pimp-up the Ufo's.
I hope they keep the saucer design, but pimp it up with lots of details and a more technologically advanced look.

**Gen_Pho** · 03-01-2012

Originally Posted by Alucardex

Yeah back on topic:

I wonder how they will pimp-up the Ufo's.
I hope they keep the saucer design, but pimp it up with lots of details and a more technologically advanced look.

I would like the interiors of saucers to be a little more randomized so that you didn't know exactly what the interior looked like before you even got to the crash site. Details in general would be pretty sweet.

**anotherdevil** · 03-01-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

And then there is this:
http://kotaku.com/5886674/bioware-wr...l-her-a-cancer
(just read the DocSeuss parts)

Wow, you know what's amazing, when you don't selectively read parts of the article you realise it's actually on her side. Sure she may not enjoy playing computer games as much as others of us, and sure she likes to focus on the story arc rather than the action, but she's a writer! Some people are so unwelcoming of different perspectives

Originally Posted by podtech115

Well, I don't know what her writing is like, but I heard Dragon Age 2 was bad. I was just pointing out why I don't like Mass Effect, and maybe she was part of the problem.

The RPG elements of DA2 were much more stream lined than DA:O, and a lot of people didn't like that. But like all Bioware games, the story line and the characters are well thought out and interesting.

It's not like only one person writes these games you know...

So sorry I can't agree with you in the slightest, you just don't seem to be able to enjoy a story driven game...

**Codex** · 03-01-2012

There's already a thread in videogames and tech discussing the writer that podtech brought up. I'm on my phone so I cannot provide a link atm, but its called something like "story, fastforwarding and gameplay, where do you stand?" I think it would be best if discussion along that vein moved to that thread rather than continued here guys. Thanks for trying to get b ack on topic, and let's try to stick to that course

**anotherdevil** · 03-01-2012

I just love the line "and the game thinks we should care if the planet gets destroyed" ... I mean, why would humans care if their home planet got utterly devastated. I mean, who cares right? Mum and dad dead? Meh

As for why the reapers are taking their time... who knows? Maybe that's something we will find out. If they don't explain it, then I'll be disappointed.

Back on topic, I think it weird for the art style, because while they have moved away from the comical art style of the original, they seem to have retained it in the way the characters look, to a degree. They don't look hyper-realistic, they don't look cartoony, but they do look something in between to me...

**Alucardex** · 03-02-2012

Originally Posted by anotherdevil

Back on topic, I think it weird for the art style, because while they have moved away from the comical art style of the original, they seem to have retained it in the way the characters look, to a degree. They don't look hyper-realistic, they don't look cartoony, but they do look something in between to me...

Yeah and I think that's a pretty smart decision.
Ultra realistic models probably wouldn't work. Just think about the sectoids:
They will look a bit... cheesy no matter how much detail you put into them and they are the more "normal" looking aliens.
On the other hand I'm glad they didn't go into WoW level of cartoonishness, that would ruin the mood for me.

**anotherdevil** · 03-02-2012

but that's the thing, the characters don't seem to fit into the environment around them. That looks far more realistic that the characters do, and they don't seem to fit.

And aliens like the new muton look of a different art style than the human... but maybe that's just me

**Alucardex** · 03-02-2012

Originally Posted by anotherdevil

but that's the thing, the characters don't seem to fit into the environment around them. That looks far more realistic that the characters do, and they don't seem to fit.

And aliens like the new muton look of a different art style than the human... but maybe that's just me

Hmmm dunno to me they fit in fine maybe you should look at the high-res screenshots.
ALso, why should the aliens NOT look different? I mean they are aliens they have their own art theme to them.

**Gen_Pho** · 03-02-2012

I really like the art. I think it follows the line of realism and sci-fi cool that the original followed but with more modern design tools and capabilities. Yeah the aliens look different than the humans. That's because they are aliens.

**babis** · 03-02-2012

Art style for me is effectively 3 separate things: modelling(+animation), lighting and image tone/post-processing.
IMO models are cool, lighting is ok but image tone is a bit too colourful for my taste.
Would be awesome if we got modding access for some of the post-proc part, as that shouldn't be difficult to expose.

**anotherdevil** · 03-02-2012

I think the aliens should look different, but they should all look like they belong on the same screenshot. To me there is just something jarringly off about them...

**SectoidSquisher** · 03-02-2012

That's because the sectoids are basically naked, while the Mutons are clad in armour.

**heniv** · 03-12-2012

I was bashing on the Apocalype art-style earlier in this post. Now I have been playing ME3 and saw a simmilarity.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HgUIgwdtD7...r_Ingame01.jpg (ME3 Collector armour)
http://i34.tinypic.com/jsyhd5.jpg (Aplocalype Megapole Armour)

The concept is really similar, but the execution of idea and the context in witch it is used makes all the difference.

**podtech115** · 03-14-2012

Originally Posted by heniv

I was bashing on the Apocalype art-style earlier in this post. Now I have been playing ME3 and saw a simmilarity.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HgUIgwdtD7...r_Ingame01.jpg (ME3 Collector armour)
http://i34.tinypic.com/jsyhd5.jpg (Aplocalype Megapole Armour)

The concept is really similar, but the execution of idea and the context in witch it is used makes all the difference.

I'm sorry for sounding like an idiot, but what does that mean? I have no idea what you are getting at. They both kind-of look alike, but they have nothing to do with each other.

**heniv** · 03-15-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

I'm sorry for sounding like an idiot, but what does that mean? I have no idea what you are getting at. They both kind-of look alike, but they have nothing to do with each other.

My point: They ☺☺☺☺ed up the art in Apocalypse, items, armour, weapons, soldier looks, soldier avatars and more.
Bioware succeeded in their art of making a Bio-type of armour.

One is aesthetically pleasing and logical, the other one is not.

**apoxwrhthrio1980** · 03-14-2012

i think the art style is great and it reminds me of the intro animation of the original xcom (colors, comic style etc). I believe that if the developers had the tech back then, the graphics would be like this one.

**badoguer** · 03-14-2012

I think the art style is great.

Half cartonish half realistic, in a perfect balance, repecting the original cartoonish concept but not turning in something childish like World of Warcraft.

**Inkidu** · 03-14-2012

I'm one of the few people who likes what's dubbed, "Real is brown", but like anything doing it too much or employing it improperly only detracts, but the same can be said for over saturated color styles, too. Personally, I like the art if it fits. For example. I don't like the art of Fallout. Why? There's not enough of it. However, I love Fallout 3 because there's all this retro futurism in your face.

So I like X-Com: UFO Defense's art style in terms of color, but I really don't like some of the choices for weapons. Most of it looks good and my predominant gripes are with the auto and heavy cannon. They look just a little too cartoonish.

I'm really digging XCom: Enemy Unknown's (2012) art style though. It's got that perfect blend of color and realism. Sure the sniper rifle's a little on the big side, but a lot of the tech and aliens look really cool, especially the mutons now that they've dropped the whole alien-metal workout leotard look.

EDIT: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...y-unknown.aspx

I think this explains some of the questions floating around in the forums.

EDIT 2: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...s-enemies.aspx

Also.

**Nosmirc** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by Podtech

The point of showing you all this is because I want the next X-COM (without 2k marin, thanks) to look this photorealistic. When I play an PS4/PS5 game, I don't want to be thinking I'm play a game, I want to be thinking 'Am I seeing a portal into another world?'

I know we've discussed this at length in the past, but I have two words for you. John Carter.

That movie underlines the danger of using every bell and whistle you can find for your product: Your production costs WILL be through the roof. In John Carter's case, Disney needed to make 600 million to break even. Six. Hundred. Million. Just to break even! Fine movie, but you're sailing into a territory where unless you have a massive surplus of money, you're not going to make a profit making products like that. You'll end up having to go down the checklist of "what makes a movie/game/whatever a smash hit?", trying to ensure that you won't be operating on a massive loss.

Basically, if the goalline for being profitable is lower, you have more freedom to make what you want, rather then what the market finds hot at the moment.

PS: That Nivida demo with the elf? Yeah, hair doesn't work that way. Ever. Hello uncanny valley!

**Alucardex** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by Nosmirc

PS: That Nivida demo with the elf? Yeah, hair doesn't work that way. Ever. Hello uncanny valley!

Haha yeah I tought the same thing.
Some of those tech demos are just breathtakingly realistic. For example the SSSS demo: It looks completely photorealistic.

The CryEngine 3 demos however hit some kind of Uncanney valley for me: They look almost realistic... but not quite and that sort of irritates me.

**podtech115** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by Nosmirc

I know we've discussed this at length in the past, but I have two words for you. John Carter.

That movie underlines the danger of using every bell and whistle you can find for your product: Your production costs WILL be through the roof. In John Carter's case, Disney needed to make 600 million to break even. Six. Hundred. Million. Just to break even! Fine movie, but you're sailing into a territory where unless you have a massive surplus of money, you're not going to make a profit making products like that. You'll end up having to go down the checklist of "what makes a movie/game/whatever a smash hit?", trying to ensure that you won't be operating on a massive loss.

ooww yeeah, ouch.

poor John Carter.

But what other option are there? All the games of 2011 were just boring Shooters. And almost all of them had '3s' in them. Where are the RTSs? Where are the sims, and 4x games? (don't answer that)

The problem I hear is that there isn't enough RAM In the consoles. Developers can't try anything new because of it. I think even the guys who are making XCOM:EU said they are having problems too, and had to work hard to keep the destructible environments in.

And some of the tech shown here will be free in the next gen. like photorealistic lighting.

**Alucardex** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

ooww yeeah, ouch.

poor John Carter.

But what other option are there? All the games of 2011 were just boring Shooters. And almost all of them had '3s' in them. Where are the RTSs? Where are the sims, and 4x games? (don't answer that)

The problem I hear is that there isn't enough RAM In the consoles. Developers can't try anything new because of it. I think even the guys who are making XCOM:EU said they are having problems too, and had to work hard to keep the destructible environments in.

And some of the tech shown here will be free in the next gen. like photorealistic lighting.

Personally I'd blame the lack of new RTS games on the consoles and their control scheme. Let's face it: It sucks to play an RTS with pretty much any current gen controllers and no developer managed to work out a solution to that problem.

I think with photorealistic graphics we will rather see MORE generic shooters, because thats the genre were graphics count most.

**Nosmirc** · 04-09-2012

Originally Posted by podtech115

But what other option are there? All the games of 2011 were just boring Shooters. And almost all of them had '3s' in them. Where are the RTSs? Where are the sims, and 4x games? (don't answer that)

That's the point I'm trying to make. The higher your production costs are, the more you have to ensure your product is a massive success. And right now, there are a bunch of highly successful franchises, which are of the shooter gameplay style. They have to go with what sells very well.

Making things photorealistic is expensive. If you don't need to, or you can pull off a reasonable facsimile that doesn't require the costly assets required for photorealistic, then why do it? Keep your production value lower means you have more options in what you make, because you can hit profit much faster. It's the same sort of thing when it comes to physics. If your game (like this one) doesn't need it, why spend funds on licensing the software for that purpose?

Originally Posted by IllusionofLIfe

I have to interrupt our regularly scheduled XCOM discussion to clear up a few facts on this one (since the journalists reporting on John Carter have been less interested in delivering real facts than they have been devouring it like a pack of ravenous wolves). The movie's budget was $250 million. Definitely a very expensive film, but not the highest Hollywood's ever seen. It also had a reported marketing budget of $100 million, which is extremely fishy because all that came out of the marketing campaign was some posters, some trailers, and some TV Spots, without even a speck of merchandising. On the other hand TRON: Legacy's marketing campaign was rumored to be about $75 million and it had tons of merchandising, theme park tie-ins, and a full-blown ARG. So while $100 million may be the official number, I don't believe a word of it.

Fair enough. I didn't really follow John Carter much, and saw an article in my paper a while ago quoting the 600 mil figure. In any case, it's still was an extremely expensive movie, and as such, it's profit threshold was that much higher. The 100 mil marketing is kinda odd...I hardly heard anything about it. I was surprised when my friends were like "lets go see it, k?", as I didn't even know it was out.

Originally Posted by Alucardex

TBH I never heard of John Carter before. Marketing over here in Germany must have really sucked.

I would said that's surprising, but like I said, I hardly heard about it aside from the odd snippet here and there. Hardly a massive marketing campaign >.>

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