Help wtih British Rush

[TheCivFather]

Okay i really want to Knight Rush while still being able to tech up to Double Navy Support and Cruisers if Knights fail. Generally getting Knights isn't much of a problem for me as i generally finish teching Feudalism around 2000-1000 B.C. (give or take how my start went).

What would be a tech tree path for me?



I was thinking something along the lines of:

Monarchy (Start with)
BW<-->HBR (Find Fish then BW first or cities nearby then HBR first)
Feudalism
Alphabet (backfill)
Pottery (backfill)
Masonry (backfill)
Irrigation
Writing (backfill)
CoL
Currency
Mathematics
Navigation
Literacy
Democracy
Banking
Iron Working (backfill)
Construction
Engineering
Invention
Steam Power
University (backfill)
Ceremonial Burial (backfill)
Religion (backfill)

The last two or three are mainly fillers to get to Modern Era with the least amount of beaker required techs while Steam Power as the 4th last allows me to make cheaper Cruisers than in the Modern Era and to Scout, etc....

[dukeblue1987]

Following a set strategy isn't good. Make the best moves depending on the game. I don't mean to sound vague, but it's the truth.

[TheCivFather]

Following a set strategy isn't good. Make the best moves depending on the game. I don't mean to sound vague, but it's the truth.

No i know it won't always be the same in every game. I mean it's just my go to strategy if i can pull it off. Obviously different civs and the area your in will determine what ends up happening. I mean there's not much point in Knights if cities are too far away to get there in time before he can defend against them depending on the year the game is in. I just want to know is this a good tech path for what i want to do.

[ll SRR ll]

I think that knight rushes are very costly, risky and are realy only good at taking mainland cities. Try cats and galleons I believe them to be cheaper, gives you more options, and nav is a tech you should strive for anyways. Nothing is more demorilizing to a chinese, american, or spanish player than taking his best island city. I usually go for knights right after galleons and use them as a good destraction while my main attack force is on a ship waiting to strike.

[elthrasher]

Are you getting Currency because you go over 250 gold that often? You certainly shouldn't be teching Currency before CoL. In many games you shouldn't tech it at all - only if you feel in control of the game and can get it in one or two turns. Going Math and Navigation is often an endgame strategy. It can be useful in a lot of games besides. However, it shouldn't be automatic. Navigation is a dead-end tech. If you know you're going for cruisers, only get Navigation if you have lots of whales or see an immediate strategic value. If you've expanded decently, cruisers should only be about 10 or so turns behind so just don't bother.

Picking up Construction after you've gone all the way down to Banking would probably indicate you are playing against a kitten. If you have a good hill city you probably want to get this sooner.

Iron Working just before Steam?!? Iron Working is the best tech in the game!

If you're backfilling University, you're building up too much tech (i.e. not winning fast enough). University is 240 beakers. There's no reason you need to be doing that much tech to get cruisers and 24 techs, which is generally game for the English. Teching University and building Oxford is always a good idea since bombers will blow up your cruisers pretty well. You should be able to get it first because you don't need a tech from it. You just need to spike it.

Note that popping Atlantis with your free cruiser is a great way to get to 24 techs. It's probably the best use for Atlantis.

[TheCivFather]

I think that knight rushes are very costly, risky and are realy only good at taking mainland cities. Try cats and galleons I believe them to be cheaper, gives you more options, and nav is a tech you should strive for anyways. Nothing is more demorilizing to a chinese, american, or spanish player than taking his best island city. I usually go for knights right after galleons and use them as a good destraction while my main attack force is on a ship waiting to strike.

I'll try that against Power Civs but generally i hate units that have one movement so i prefer Knights for the early game beatdown and the 2 movements, they also cost only 50g in Ancient Era.

Are you getting Currency because you go over 250 gold that often? You certainly shouldn't be teching Currency before CoL. In many games you shouldn't tech it at all - only if you feel in control of the game and can get it in one or two turns. Going Math and Navigation is often an endgame strategy. It can be useful in a lot of games besides. However, it shouldn't be automatic. Navigation is a dead-end tech. If you know you're going for cruisers, only get Navigation if you have lots of whales or see an immediate strategic value. If you've expanded decently, cruisers should only be about 10 or so turns behind so just don't bother.

Well with Spanish i try to get Currency early for the free market, caravan and gold boost. That early extra gold for Spanish has given me early starts and eventually leads me to being able to Rush the World. Especially when trying to get to good Whale Spots so i wanted to do the same for British. CoL <--> Currency is really "a which hasn't been teched yet first to grab the bonus".

Picking up Construction after you've gone all the way down to Banking would probably indicate you are playing against a kitten. If you have a good hill city you probably want to get this sooner.

Yeah that's where the map layout comes a factor if i find resources i'll go that route first to grab the bonus.

Iron Working just before Steam?!? Iron Working is the best tech in the game!

I know but since i'm going for Knight Rush, IW for me is at the end.

If you're backfilling University, you're building up too much tech (i.e. not winning fast enough). University is 240 beakers. There's no reason you need to be doing that much tech to get cruisers and 24 techs, which is generally game for the English. Teching University and building Oxford is always a good idea since bombers will blow up your cruisers pretty well. You should be able to get it first because you don't need a tech from it. You just need to spike it.

I just put University at the end since by that point its a filler or waiting for Atlantis.

Note that popping Atlantis with your free cruiser is a great way to get to 24 techs. It's probably the best use for Atlantis.

[elthrasher]

I thought this was about England. Well, the Spanish do like to get Currency, but you still shouldn't tech-jump over Code of Laws to get there. Doing so increases the cost of Currency from 80 beakers to 130. It's just not a good plan. Get Code of Laws and then get Currency.

You should read this article to learn about tech-jumping: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/sho...-In-Depth-Look

Basically what you are doing is paying for Code of Laws twice. Tech-jumping is rarely a good idea.

If you are going for knights in the ancient era, then I agree don't bother with legions (there's no way to make that work for starters). Any other strategy should consider some legions at some point. I probably build them in every game that doesn't end with an unlucky settler rush. Also Iron Working is a prerequisite for Construction. It's a cheap tech so paying for it twice isn't that big a deal, but you should at least know why Construction sometimes costs 60 beakers and sometimes costs 80.

[Zefelius]

Tech-jumping is rarely a good idea.

And tech-jumping the same tech twice is even worse! I seem to recall that you used to observe good forum players -- Grayson comes to mind -- doing exactly that in some of their Civ Rev videos. I learned from those observations...

[TheCivFather]

What happened was that i forgot you need IW and CoL before getting Construction and Currency. I hate tech jumping for the reason that i don't want to pay extra beakers for techs unless i'm the Chinese. I'm going to reorganize the tech plan.

[ll SRR ll]

I'll try that against Power Civs but generally i hate units that have one movement so i prefer Knights for the early game beatdown and the 2 movements, they also cost only 50g in Ancient Era.


You dont need movement when you've got galleons, technically your getting three movement pts due to galleons. Blowing 50g on a knight seems expensive especially if it doesnt work. With a galleon fleet and a cat army your attack is much higher than your knight army. I also find that they are completely useless unless you have a barracks witch cost more resources early on that would be best used by settlers or libraries. I always find a nice prodution spot with england and build the barracks in that ( i prefere it to be london if possible while walking my initial settler around).

[ll SRR ll]

I agree that tech jumping is stupid if you have the opportunity to be the tech leader and achieve all the early bonuses. However I believe that if you get a bad start in a FFA and there atleast 2 other human players around in the game staying back and building cities and libraries and tech jumping can be an excellent way to make them believe your not a threat. Ive had games that even I thought that I had no chance in but using the tech hoping strat and double naval support has helped me pull out a unbeliebable win.

[elthrasher]

I agree that tech jumping is stupid if you have the opportunity to be the tech leader and achieve all the early bonuses. However I believe that if you get a bad start in a FFA and there atleast 2 other human players around in the game staying back and building cities and libraries and tech jumping can be an excellent way to make them believe your not a threat. Ive had games that even I thought that I had no chance in but using the tech hoping strat and double naval support has helped me pull out a unbeliebable win.

Here you are talking about backfilling rather than tech-jumping. This can be a good idea, as you say. For example, teching Literacy at 30 beakers/turn when China got to 5 techs 20 turns ago is very wasteful. Instead you should get your beaker count above 60 and backfill it (as per the article above).

[TheCivFather]

I think that knight rushes are very costly, risky and are realy only good at taking mainland cities. Try cats and galleons I believe them to be cheaper, gives you more options, and nav is a tech you should strive for anyways. Nothing is more demorilizing to a chinese, american, or spanish player than taking his best island city. I usually go for knights right after galleons and use them as a good destraction while my main attack force is on a ship waiting to strike.

I was just in a match against Spanish. My starting area was so bad so i knew from the get go i wasn't going to win. He took to the islands (He wasn't on the same mainland that i was in either) so i knew Knight Rush wasn't going to work so i tried teching to 24 and didn't bother with Knights (he had 30 when i got double navy support). I ended up making about 5 cities on the mainland and made libraries to catch up to tech (i remember i was like at 7 techs and he was like at 15+ at that point). Anyways my question is how can Cats and Galleons deal with Chinese and Spanish when they take to the islands if they have the tech lead until you catch up and by that time if he keeps up to date with the defending units Pikemans will still be around the time i finish Math and Nav before i can even make (or Rush them). Getting to Mathematics and Navigation takes much longer than getting to Feudalism and taking Knights over with Galleys. Knights are also 50g in the Ancient Era vs the Cats being way more expensive in Medieval due how many techs you need to do to get to Mathematics.


So yeah 60g for Cats vs 50g for Knights (not factoring in Galleon Support either)

Plus 290 beakers total to get Mathematics and Navigation (all the techs needed to get there) vs 140 for Feudalism, 20 for Bronze and 20 for HBR = 180 beakers.


So i still don't understand how Cats and Galleons are better when Knights are cheaper to rush and you save 110 beakers that can be converted into gold instead to help fund military or buildings.

[ll SRR ll]

Its the fact that early in the game how many knights can you muster up maybe two armies? What if he's got cats already or hordes of legion armies, Im sure your like every early English knight rusher that Ive encountered and sent them over with no protection and I send em back to your cap in a body bag. When I cat and galleon rush ive got a solid infrastructure, usually 5 to seven cities. As your question about a spanish or chinese guy with a lot of techs just attack em anyways I'm telling you a majority of the time they are just tech and thats it, maybe a little gold from free market. Ive beaten chinese players at 20-25 techs plenty of times with this strat and usually they have single archers gaurding there island cities. Ive also sunk plenty of single cruisers with my galleon fleet and for some reason once you taken an island city they almost always give me steam power.

[ll SRR ll]

As for your math, I havents calculated this but bc I have a library I'm doubling science so I would only get half the gold from that city so the beaker count would actually be less if that makes sense to you. I dont know I might be wrong and inificient according to some of the forum members but it works for me as I win more than 60% of my ranked FFA games with half of my losses comming from disconnects and intentional and unintentional freezes.

[TheCivFather]

Actually depending on how early i get Knights out (once i had a Knight Army out at like 2000 B.C or something like that), i have an Archer outside their city scouting and ready to take the tree or hill and protect the knights.

I'll keep trying out the Cats with Galleons though but since it takes so damn long to get to Math and Navigation i prefer to make Knights sweep everything on the mainland then if i need to make a Galley and take them to the islands i rather do that. Usually by that time the Knights already have Blitz or Infiltration.


Oh and i play H2H i'm not much of a fan of FFA (mostly because i lose all the barbs that otherwise are mine on H2H).

[ll SRR ll]

Your doing something wrong then I almost always have math by 2000 BC hence why I love when the other English player in my game tries a knight rush.

[TheCivFather]

Hmm i'll keep working on getting Math at 2000 B.C then. Thanks for the year tip.

Earlier i was up against another Spanish but this one was on the mainland. He still loss even with attempting Pikeman armies since they were no match against KA with Blitz and Great General with a single Archer on one of his Trees with a defense of 9+.

[TheCivFather]

Also can you give me a brief run of your opening moves that get you Math at 2000 B.C.?

Like say work 4 food after pumping out 2 warriors make a settler and put on dye, etc...

[ll SRR ll]

Actually I thought about it 2000 bc is very achievable especially if you wanna blow a GS on it, its more like 1500. Ive definatly had em with out blowing a GS by 2000 its just one of those really good starts or a double dye spot. I'm usually rushing with a Galleon fleet and a couple of cat armies by 0 AD. Even if he has pike armies I still have the advantage usually 24.5-18. Most of the time I'm attacking single units though (mostly archers and I dont even have to drop em I just attack right from the boat 9-4.5). I almost always have a legion army with it too for back up.

[ll SRR ll]

Depends on the start but I always move my settlers towards the middle of the map no matter who is in the game. I never move em more than 4 turns. I try to find an area where there are ways of making money ie barbs rivers exc... I build two warriors ( sometimes one sometimes 3 depends on where I'm at). If there are rushers I get broze if not i start working two grass lands to get up to three pop and work on my next settler. I usually have two settlers at the same time and settle em both by dye and start on my fourth settler in London. I work on alpha build one or two libraries depending on how much gold ive got, Ive had games where I have had to rush multiple galleys to stay under 250. Always try to make peace with someone bc you have a better chance of getting caravans (very important!!!!) I usually get my free settler around 3000 bc and settler them around 2800. Im not concerned about growth either I settler them on the first reasonable dye spot I can find and rush a library. If I'm pressed for time and I want to end the game right away I go alpha, writing, math, nav. If I'm feeling nice and have plenty of time to play then I'll hit COL, Currency, Constuction. Whats very important in my strat is that I never stop building settlers in london and I'm not shy about where I put new cities (by any resource I can find). This strat is solely based on sounding though I have to alter it alot and have to rely on getting a free settler. I'm always rushing settlers so even if I dont get my 100g I still have a chance in the long run on staying competive in any game.

[TheCivFather]

Yeah i just got to 900 B.C for Math on Single Player for practice. Not bad for first attempt. I stopped for Bronze since i had Fish nearby otherwise it would have been 1400 B.C.

[elthrasher]

I was just in a match against Spanish. My starting area was so bad so i knew from the get go i wasn't going to win. He took to the islands (He wasn't on the same mainland that i was in either) so i knew Knight Rush wasn't going to work so i tried teching to 24 and didn't bother with Knights (he had 30 when i got double navy support). I ended up making about 5 cities on the mainland and made libraries to catch up to tech (i remember i was like at 7 techs and he was like at 15+ at that point).

At this point what you want to do is spam cities like crazy. Go into Republic and switch to only hammers and gold and just fill up the mainland. If you can afford 5 libraries, you can afford 10 settlers! Great, now you've got 15 cities and can go full tech in Democracy and backfill a bunch of stuff. Try to build Oxford University to stop that and get Steam Power (money techs if you get a GS) and start cranking out cruisers. Load 'em up with any odd units you have and start taking cities.

When Spanish players yield the mainland you have to punish them for it. By creating your own island of 5 cities you aren't exploiting this vulnerability at all.

[dukeblue1987]

Just want to add my 2 cents that knights are not England's best unit. Their best unit is the longbow archer. And I don't mean putting them in your cities. Do you have any idea how hard it is to defend against a vet longbow army and 2-3 vet legion armies? Especially with +1 navel bonus, which makes it hard to sink their transportation.

I always hear about people going for knights in ancient with England. Lets do the math.

Bronze working - 20 beakers
Iron working - 30 beakers
1 barracks - 40 hammers
3 legion armies - 80 hammers (assuming free legion)
1 archer army - 30 hammers
1 galley - 30 hammers

Total = 50 beakers, 180 hammers
2x 9 attack unit/4.5 defense
1x 4.5 attack/13.5 defense (18 on defensive tile)
1x galley/militia

HBR - 20 beakers
Feud - 140 beakers
2 knight armies - 125 hammers (assuming free knight)

Total = 160 beakers, 125 hammers
2x 12 attack/6 defense

Way quicker, and more efficient to get legions and archers. Only go knights if you stumble on an early GS. The archers are key because its near impossible to remove them. Therefore, you force static defense. And we all know making your opponent build static defense is a key to success. And just for the sake of argument, this is what you need for vet knights with archers.

Bronze - 20 beakers
HBR - 20 beakers
Feud - 140 beakers

Barracks - 40 hammers
1 knight army - 50 hammers
1 longbow army - 30 hammers
Galley - 30 hammers

Total 180 beakers, 150 hammers
1 18 attack, 9 defense
1 4.5 attack, 13.5 defense
1 galley/militia

[TheCivFather]

At this point what you want to do is spam cities like crazy. Go into Republic and switch to only hammers and gold and just fill up the mainland. If you can afford 5 libraries, you can afford 10 settlers! Great, now you've got 15 cities and can go full tech in Democracy and backfill a bunch of stuff. Try to build Oxford University to stop that and get Steam Power (money techs if you get a GS) and start cranking out cruisers. Load 'em up with any odd units you have and start taking cities.

Yeah i went into democracy and i was doing over 100+ beakers at the end. What happened was that he rushed Automobile and started making Battleships. Once he rushed Automobile i knew it was only a matter of time before i lost. He also started making Modern Infantry too. Sometimes i get a little lazy by not making more cities and like i said the area was so bad (desert like crazy and i had all the trees already) that i didn't bother making any more cities. I did pretty good considering i had a bad area and only 5-6 cities for most of the game.
When Spanish players yield the mainland you have to punish them for it. By creating your own island of 5 cities you aren't exploiting this vulnerability at all.

Just want to add my 2 cents that knights are not England's best unit. Their best unit is the longbow archer. And I don't mean putting them in your cities. Do you have any idea how hard it is to defend against a vet longbow army and 2-3 vet legion armies? Especially with +1 navel bonus, which makes it hard to sink their transportation.

I always hear about people going for knights in ancient with England. Lets do the math.

Bronze working - 20 beakers
Iron working - 30 beakers
1 barracks - 40 hammers
3 legion armies - 80 hammers (assuming free legion)
1 archer army - 30 hammers
1 galley - 30 hammers

Total = 50 beakers, 180 hammers
2x 9 attack unit/4.5 defense
1x 4.5 attack/13.5 defense (18 on defensive tile)
1x galley/militia

HBR - 20 beakers
Feud - 140 beakers
2 knight armies - 125 hammers (assuming free knight)

Total = 160 beakers, 125 hammers
2x 12 attack/6 defense

Way quicker, and more efficient to get legions and archers. Only go knights if you stumble on an early GS. The archers are key because its near impossible to remove them. Therefore, you force static defense. And we all know making your opponent build static defense is a key to success. And just for the sake of argument, this is what you need for vet knights with archers.

Bronze - 20 beakers
HBR - 20 beakers
Feud - 140 beakers

Barracks - 40 hammers
1 knight army - 50 hammers
1 longbow army - 30 hammers
Galley - 30 hammers

Total 180 beakers, 150 hammers
1 18 attack, 9 defense
1 4.5 attack, 13.5 defense
1 galley/militia

Problem with Legions is that they have one movement (even with Galley transporting them i still don't like it). Knights are good because if your cities are under attack Knights can easily get there and take them back. I'll try it out though. Also if you set up map control and leave some barbs the free knight can go to them to get veteran easily without having to make a barracks (i still try to put a city on 3+ trees to make a barrack) putting KA at 18 Attack to take down 15 Defense AA. And if you send the KA to AI capitals to capture them they also end up with upgrades by the time you get to the human player(s) which is what i did against that Spanish and by that point my first KA had Great General to insure he was going down with the second KA closing in to help finish him.

[dukeblue1987]

Problem with Legions is that they have one movement (even with Galley transporting them i still don't like it). Knights are good because if your cities are under attack Knights can easily get there and take them back. I'll try it out though. Also if you set up map control and leave some barbs the free knight can go to them to get veteran easily without having to make a barracks (i still try to put a on 3+ trees to make a barrack) putting KA at 18 Attack to take down 15 Defense AA. And if you send the KA to AI capitals to capture them they also end up with upgrades by the time you get to the human player(s) which is what i did against that Spanish and by that point my first KA had Great General to insure he was going down with the second KA closing in to help finish him.

I understand your reasoning, I just don't agree with it. First, 18 KA vs 15 AA is terrible odds for the knights. First, I think its less than 50/50 (see battles odds thread where we are in the process of testing), but it's also 75 hammers vs 30 hammers. Third, knights are way easy to kill. Vet knights get 9 defense (12 on defensive tile). Injured knights are 4.5 and 6 respectively. Easy kill for legions or a HA. You want to protect the knights with single archers at the very least and they are 1 movement. Last, you can get to legions way faster. Try to get a legion army or two and an longbow army to your opponents cities. The militia will let you see their defenses. Attack 9-5. Don't attack against archer armies. Just move around and make him build static defense everywhere. You will win.

[TheCivFather]

So your saying not to attack AA even though the first LA wears down the AA so the final LA takes out his AA. I don't understand... the point of LA is so that they wear down and the others capture the city. If your saying not to attack AA and make him build static defenses then that's why everyone like to Knight Rush because they don't want to sit around for 2hrs while you get the advantage over him for building static defenses when Knights end the game around 0 A.D and in 30 mins or less. 18 v 15 my KA still win every time. And with a Longbow Archer on a tree with 9+ defense ensures LA/HA has to get passed the Longbow first to get the KA but theres always a second KA not to far away.

[dukeblue1987]

So your saying not to attack AA even though the first LA wears down the AA so the final LA takes out his AA. I don't understand... the point of LA is so that they wear down and the others capture the city. If your saying not to attack AA then that's why everyone like to Knight Rush. 18 v 15 my Knight still win every time. And with a Longbow Archer on a tree with 9+ defense ensures LA/HA has to get passed the Longbow first to get the KA but theres always a second KA not to far away.

I would never attack an archer army unless I felt it was absolutely necessary (e.g. you're already losing hail mary type attack) or I had an overpowering force (e.g. 6 LA's). It is better (less risky) to simply move around the opponents cities and make him build archers everywhere.

18v15 is hardly "win every time". In fact, I believe the actual odds are less than 50/50 (and hammer ratio is very bad for the knights).

You say you like knights for their movement. But then say you would have an archer defending a knight. You can't have it both ways!

[TheCivFather]

If i have a Longbow right outside his city from the start not only i'm a forcing a chokepoint and map control but i'm scouting what's leaving his city while having the Longbow already over there so when KA gets there all the Longbow has to do is take a tree or hill the same turn my KA is going to attack or the turn before so the archer fortifies.

[Star428]

At this point what you want to do is spam cities like crazy. Go into Republic and switch to only hammers and gold and just fill up the mainland. If you can afford 5 libraries, you can afford 10 settlers! Great, now you've got 15 cities and can go full tech in Democracy and backfill a bunch of stuff. Try to build Oxford University to stop that and get Steam Power (money techs if you get a GS) and start cranking out cruisers. Load 'em up with any odd units you have and start taking cities.

When Spanish players yield the mainland you have to punish them for it. By creating your own island of 5 cities you aren't exploiting this vulnerability at all.

Against most civs that is what i would do. Go into republic and spam cities everywhere. But against spanish i get nervous doing this. I'm afraid they might have galleons roaming around the continent just waiting to pick off my settlers or my newly-founded cities.

[HydroDragon]

A good player would hardly let your longbow set up camp in one of his trees from the start of the game to the end! You've practically already won if you've managed that.

[dukeblue1987]

If i have a Longbow right outside his city from the start not only i'm a forcing a chokepoint and map control but i'm scouting what's leaving his city while having the Longbow already over there so when KA gets there all the Longbow has to do is take a tree or hill the same turn my KA is going to attack or the turn before so the archer fortifies.

You can do that with legions too. And I'm not saying that you have a terrible strategy or anything like that. I also come from the perspective of playing 90% of my games against really good players. Vary rarely do our games make it to knights. In general, the better players are all hyper aggressive.

Here is the best advice I can give anyone in this game.

There is a common misconception that they key to winning is to tech far enough ahead that you have a unit capable of killing your opponent. This is how you post times in GOTW. It is completely different in multiplayer.

In multiplayer, a game is won by a combination of collecting a larger portion of the X resources on the map (huts, AI, naming tiles) than your opponent and then using your resources more efficiently. You can use resources more efficiently in two ways. The most obvious, is not buying stupid things like harbors and hammering units when possible instead of rushing them. The second way is to use X resources to make your opponent use X+Y resources. E.g. if I use 30 hammers to build a legion army, my goal is to make you use 40 hammers to build archers. Remember, gold is more wasteful than hammers. Making your opponent rush archers is extremely inefficient for him.

Hope that makes sense and gives you a different perspective on the game.

[dukeblue1987]

A good player would hardly let your longbow set up camp in one of his trees from the start of the game to the end! You've practically already won if you've managed that.

Haha so true! Although sometimes its hard to remove longbows. Like I said, they are what makes the English good.

[TheCivFather]

Haha so true! Although sometimes its hard to remove longbows. Like I said, they are what makes the English good.

That's why i love the English when i first started playing. Even since Civ 4 for the Gold Elisabeth would make there. Then when i got Civ Rev months ago and saw she got Longbows and Double Navy Support with early Knights and early +1 Navy bonus i was like a kid in a candy store.

[ll SRR ll]

The only time I will use the Knight rush strat with England is if Ive gotten Knights Templar and a GS. Then it really only cost you 25 hammers for a single Knight and usually I dont attack caps with my army I'll take a couple of non-cap cities bc 18-12 is better odds. Most of the time when I do this its for intimidating my opponant and slowing his growth.

[danthechan]

interesting thread. after the initial explore/collect gold phase i would tend to let the 1st gp chose between those methods. if you get a gb then build the castle and go with legions. if you get a gs then go for knights. for either method i'm going to want a barracks. of course you can set out with your legions and still follow up with knights.
as to the question of attacking aa's with la's its hard to say. for me it depends on the risk/reward. if its a great city, or a strategically significant city, the it would be worth attacking it with 2 la's. if you get the 1st wound then you can attack 9-10 on the 2nd. not good odds, but you are only wagering 30 hammers against his city. if i plan on taking cities with la's i will wait a couple turns and embark with 3 or more la's instead of 2.

[dukeblue1987]

interesting thread. after the initial explore/collect gold phase i would tend to let the 1st gp chose between those methods. if you get a gb then build the castle and go with legions. if you get a gs then go for knights. for either method i'm going to want a barracks. of course you can set out with your legions and still follow up with knights.
as to the question of attacking aa's with la's its hard to say. for me it depends on the risk/reward. if its a great city, or a strategically significant city, the it would be worth attacking it with 2 la's. if you get the 1st wound then you can attack 9-10 on the 2nd. not good odds, but you are only wagering 30 hammers against his city. if i plan on taking cities with la's i will wait a couple turns and embark with 3 or more la's instead of 2.

This is a very good post.