The Patch

[2K Greg]

Hey forumers,

As I mentioned yesterday, a new Civilization V patch is currently in QA. I don’t have the full change list yet, but I will tell you that this patch focuses primarily on improving the stability of multiplayer.

As soon as I have the specific list of fixes, I’ll update this thread with them. I just wanted you to know the general theme of the patch right away

Update: The patch has been released! Fire up Steam to get it.

[MULTIPLAYER]

• Significant improvements to general multiplayer stability.
• Significant improvements to Hot-Join stability.
• Multiplayer now using the same AI move caching as single player, improving turn-times significantly.
• Lobby improvements: We now display game details in the lobby list (players in each game, map size, map type, DLC required, etc.).
• Host can now kick players from the staging room when loading a save (if a player cannot return to a game, the game can now be continued by the rest of the players).
• Found and corrected additional causes of Out-of-Sync.
• Exploit: Corrected an exploit that allowed players on the same team to trade cities back and forth to auto-heal it.
• Exploit: Corrected an exploit that allowed players on the same team to trade cities back and forth to generate endless City Strikes.
• Exploit: Corrected an exploit that allowed a player to “lag” the UI to gain multiple free techs.

[UI]

• Change “Load Game” save sorting to be “Last Modified” by default.

[BUGS]

• When scrapping a unit, make sure any “cargo” units are scrapped as well.
• When a unit is destroyed that is carrying another unit, make sure to kill both (missiles sometimes lingered).
• Corrected a bug that was causing eliminated Civ’s to not generate notifications correctly.
• Changed notification language for when a Research or Trade deal is cancelled due to the AI running out of funds to pay for it (per-turn deal), or are eliminated. It was currently displaying a “because of war” notification which is incorrect.
• Corrected an issue that could cause unhappiness from city count and number of specialists to become incorrect over the course of a long game.
• Changed Frigate obsolete tech to Combustion.
• Fixed Korean science building exploit.
• Fixed a problem with City Strike that gave the user the impression that they could not end their turn, when in reality, city strike was still active.
• Crash: Fixed a crash that could occur in hot-seat when exiting to the main menu.
• Crash: Fixed a crash that could occur when a unit was eliminated by standing too close to a Citadel.

[Berko89]

Best news of the year.

[stethnorun]

I'll be the first to say...I hope that includes animations.

[Pouakai]

This is good, hopefully we'll get this and a DLC before Christmas, preferably about the same time as Spain & Inca last year.

[Mega-Dolphin]

From small to gigantunormous, about how large would this patch be?

[Pouakai]

I would presume it will be safe to estimate a size similar to the other major patches we have had throughout the game.

[nokmirt]

Will any work be done on the AI?

[Machturbo]

So... Fixing MP. What about fixing of the diplo? It still needs work sadly.

[Jazzterisk]

So... Fixing MP. What about fixing of the diplo? It still needs work sadly.

Yes, agreed. I was hoping for some work on that. Perhaps, that's the direction an expansion will take.

I haven't ever played MP so I can't say as to how unplayable it was. Perhaps it needed the work.

[brxbrx]

I'm happy for the multiplayer community. They've been horrendously neglected. Single player has gotten a lot more so far.

Of course, a game shouldn't need this much patching in the first place.

[QuantumTarantino]

I'll be the first to say...I hope that includes animations.

I'll be first to say, i hope they don't, they're working on FIXING MP, not BREAKING it.

[MadDjinn]

I'll be first to say, i hope they don't, they're working on FIXING MP, not BREAKING it.

+1.

Animations would cause too much havok for MP games. Of course, if it was an option that had to be turned on, rather than off, it wouldn't be as bad. Still bad though.


On topic:

It's good that there'll be some focus on MP. too many OOSes and some other ping/drop issues.

[CanuckSoldier]

That is great news Greg, I hope it is really as successful in stabilizing MP "in the wild" as it is in QA testing. I'm also hoping that this adds many of the missing features that we have been waiting for too.

This is the best news the MP community has had since Civ5 was released.

CS

www.civplayers.com

[stethnorun]

+1.

Animations would cause too much havok for MP games. Of course, if it was an option that had to be turned on, rather than off, it wouldn't be as bad. Still bad though.


On topic:

It's good that there'll be some focus on MP. too many OOSes and some other ping/drop issues.

Just so you all know, lack of animations are one of the biggest reasons more people don't play MP. Even if you don't like the idea, just having the option to turn it on would bring in TONS more multiplayers, and thus, make MP a much higher priority going forward. Put simply, it's in EVERYONE's best interest to get animations in, even if you don't like it, personally.

[MadDjinn]

Just so you all know, lack of animations are one of the biggest reasons more people don't play MP. Even if you don't like the idea, just having the option to turn it on would bring in TONS more multiplayers, and thus, make MP a much higher priority going forward. Put simply, it's in EVERYONE's best interest to get animations in, even if you don't like it, personally.

Do you have statistics for that? Have you asked everyone yet? 'TONS' is a lot of people to ask.

no, I'm pretty sure the constant OOSs, drops and lag issues keep people from wanting to play MP. Animations are only good if the actual network code is stable enough to handle it.

[mwallyn]

Just so you all know, lack of animations are one of the biggest reasons more people don't play MP. Even if you don't like the idea, just having the option to turn it on would bring in TONS more multiplayers, and thus, make MP a much higher priority going forward. Put simply, it's in EVERYONE's best interest to get animations in, even if you don't like it, personally.

So...a pretty looking game is more important than one that actually runs? I can see where you are coming from, but I think making MP functional would draw in way more people simply because you'd actually be able to play it.

[istry555]

So...a pretty looking game is more important than one that actually runs? I can see where you are coming from, but I think making MP functional would draw in way more people simply because you'd actually be able to play it.

You'd think, but the sad truth is probably closer to a lot of casuals or would-be MPs tried MP, were turned off by the lack of animations, and didn't even play long enough to experience the actual stability issues (which are a more important concern).

I'm also hoping this MP patch will finally address MP-AI-Diplomacy which is still non-existent and makes using AI slots worthless.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

I realise why animations aren't in normal MP, but why not on hotseat? It's not like there's any network connection problems, and the game is essentially an SP game (except the computer has one less (or more) AI to deal with).

But I think MP as a whole should get the ability to turn them on, but make off the default.

[_Pax_]

Animations are only good if the actual network code is stable enough to handle it.

Showing animations or not, has absolutely zero to do with the networking.

Seriously. Those animations are not something that would need to be transmitted over the network. They're already on your own computer. The game just has to actually, you know, display them.

[lietkynes]

I hope this patch will have the promised Pitboss or PBEM for those of us who don't like real time multiplayer.

[General Paul]

I hope this patch will have the promised Pitboss or PBEM for those of us who don't like real time multiplayer.

Is it X-Mas?
PBEM was promised to be released a month after release of the game...

1.5 years ago...

more like the pope gets married

[stethnorun]

You'd think, but the sad truth is probably closer to a lot of casuals or would-be MPs tried MP, were turned off by the lack of animations, and didn't even play long enough to experience the actual stability issues (which are a more important concern).

This, exactly. It describes me, all my friends, and even people on Steam I talk to occasionally. If those people had stuck around (if animations were in the game), they TOO would have seen the stability issues, and the devs would have put a higher priority on stability fixes. Only an idiot would think "I don't like animations so don't put them in!". What a narrow, shortsighted view.

[eastkitton]

Only an idiot would think "I don't like animations so don't put them in!". What a narrow, shortsighted view.

Oh great, how many more times has this got to be thrashed out on this forum?

MP is slow enough anyway. Sitting around waiting for someone else to watch the pretty animations sure doesn't help.

[eastkitton]

As soon as I have the specific list of fixes, I’ll update this thread with them.

While you're at it, are you going to update the sticky Patch Notes thread with the details of the last patch?

[mekk]

I'll be the first to say...I hope that includes animations.

I am afraid no as Greg said "improve stability". Animations would mean the opposite as an implemented feature due to potential sync issues.

On the other hand it's very promosing that they no longer seek for a multiplayer network programmer, so hopefully found someone already.

[stethnorun]

Oh great, how many more times has this got to be thrashed out on this forum?

MP is slow enough anyway. Sitting around waiting for someone else to watch the pretty animations sure doesn't help.

Well first off, if you are playing Civ for anything OTHER than a slow experience, you need to be playing a different game. Civ = slow. Secondly, some of us played Civ 4 MP ENTIRELY over LAN...which means we were all playing it like a board game.

And again, OBVIOUSLY this would be an option, not a requirement. Why on earth would you people be against the OPTION of including it? Again, extremely narrow and short sighted.

[SamBC]

Animations are to do with the network because they cause additional timing issues that have to be synchronised. You can't have an attack finished and result known on one computer significantly before another. So the animations don't have to be transmitted, but timing signals do.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

I think what steth's trying to say is why are so many people against the option of animations being in MP? It's an option for a reason, you don't have to use it. Removing the capability entirely restricts people though. I would much prefer that animations were available in hotseat.

In fact, are they going to fix all the bugs that are rampant in hotseat? They're mostly just graphics glitches, but it's nowhere near as polished as the main game.

[nokmirt]

If the AI does not get fixed I'm done with this game. Now not only me but many others have bought all the maps, DLC, everything. We all are traditional SP players, who never will play multi-player. I understand that multi needs work, but SP is the core of the game, indeed to most of us. To us the game is way below its standard with the tactical AI the way it is. The game is below its standard as well with the current way diplomacy is coded. These things need to be looked at and taken care of. I mean after all the game has been out for almost 15 months now. It was brought out with so many issues to begin with, but there has been plenty of time to fix it. So please 2K Greg tell us whats on your mind. Do you see the AI fixed in the near future or are we just wasting our time playing and being loyal to a game that will never be fixed properly? Thanks for any feedback.

[_Pax_]

Animations are to do with the network because they cause additional timing issues that have to be synchronised. You can't have an attack finished and result known on one computer significantly before another. So the animations don't have to be transmitted, but timing signals do.

Sure, you can. Drop "simultaneous turns" out of the mix, and you lose the whole "synchronised" issue entirely.

As someone else said: if you're looking for a FAST game ... you're not looking for Civ." Civ isn't an RTS. Stop trying to shoehornit into an RTS-like gameplay experience, and OH HEY no more out-of-synch problems!

[jpbar81]

Thanks, Greg.

Perhaps I'll start playing some multiplayer games after this patch.

[Nefliqus]

I don't understand why they can't public Patch Notes with planed changes list if patch is already in QA?

[Bantams]

Thanks, Greg.

Perhaps I'll start playing some multiplayer games after this patch.

+1


Thanks for the info Greg does this mean the vacant programer position as been filled now?

Also will this patch be "Awesome" or just meh?

[Black Gate of Mordor]

I don't understand why they can't public Patch Notes with planed changes list if patch is already in QA?

Because they don't want to release information until they're sure what they're going to release. You don't say "We're going to put animations in MP" and then during QA discover it's too slow, then release the patch with no animations. In the past, they've only ever added to patches, not taken away.

[Nefliqus]

Because they don't want to release information until they're sure what they're going to release. You don't say "We're going to put animations in MP" and then during QA discover it's too slow, then release the patch with no animations. In the past, they've only ever added to patches, not taken away.

Hmm, but such thing like performance issue should be considered during development phase. Anyway I'm not talking about final list so they can remove some unsecured points and make later an update of Patch Notes. It is good for us and them (publishing attract more people).

[l4m3r]

Wow 2KGreg ist still alive? Great News! I hope there is an Expansion!

[Shiav]

MP focused? I just might have to play a few more of the weekend games

as an aside, i honestly dont know any one who wont play multiplayer for animations. considering it would slow down the game (both lag wise and in reality) i dont see it as a good thing and would immediately turn it off if it was in. sure it'd be a nice option but i think we can all agree that before we work on that we need stability and better tactical ai

[porky]

I really don't think turning MP animations on will bring in hundreds or thousands of new players, suggesting something like is just absurd. Being able to actually play a MP with all your friends, would bring in new people I feel.

I do feel that since there are a lot of people that have voiced their concerns on MP animations I think it should be added at some point in time as an option. That way, for the people that want to slow down the MP and possibly cause more lag, they can, simply by turning on the animations. For those of us that would like a nice smooth, lag free enviroment, we can keep them turned off.

I just realized the mod I made won't ever work in MP (which it was designed for) because a lot of stuff keys off of animations not just attacks. That means if MP animations are never added I will never be able to play my mod vs other humans like intended. Even knowing this I would rather have no MP animations as they could cause serious slow downs.

[oblio]

So now I can see the lead MP developer at Firaxis reading this thread and screaming out "but I thought that's what they wanted" and hurridly picking up the phone to QA telling them to stop work, send it back, we have to start over. So another three months wait for the next patch?

[SamBC]

Sure, you can. Drop "simultaneous turns" out of the mix, and you lose the whole "synchronised" issue entirely.

As someone else said: if you're looking for a FAST game ... you're not looking for Civ." Civ isn't an RTS. Stop trying to shoehornit into an RTS-like gameplay experience, and OH HEY no more out-of-synch problems!

Indeed, if I were going to play internet MP, this is what I'd want - sequential turns, played over a long time (scheduling 1-3 hour sessions over a period of weeks), preferably with animations. It just seems sequential turns are completely off the menu. Despite being easier to program and preferred by some players.