Remove SecuROM from Borderlands+DLC on Steam, please.

[ArcheKruz]

Why does this game's DLC still have SecuROM? It baffles me. I really would love to get this game and its DLC collection, but until all traces of SecuROM are removed or patched out, I am holding myself out of buying the game.

I would have loved to buy the game through Steam, but my less than pleasant experience with SecuROM ruining my DVD-RW Drive, and my great dislike of being treated like a criminal with this draconian DRM scheme for buying the game legitimately has prevented me from purchasing the game and its DLC collection.

You have my word that as soon as SecuROM is completely patched out of the game and all of its DLC, I will make the purchase. I'll buy it at full price even, but not while SecuROM is still in the game.

[BiteMyBios]

Yeah it makes no sense to put SecuROM on SOME of the DLC but not in the main game (Steam version), I really don't see the logic behind that; it really should be completly removed...hopefully Borderlands 2 won't have SecuROM :/

[Ali-Sama]

I agree with this!

[jfredsilva]

I also agree, please remove it.

[Gwarsbane]

There has been many times I have seen the GotY edition of this game on sale and wanted to buy it, but stopped myself because not only does it have DRM on it besides Steam, but its SecuRom DRM which I have had some bad experiences with not only on my system with other games, but friends systems too.

Seriously, this DRM is only punishing paying legit users. Pirates are not being effected by this or any other DRM at all.

If the DRM was removed, Not only would I be buying it, but I know a bunch of people on my friends list that would be getting it too, they are also holding off on buying it for the same reason I have been.

I also hope that Borderlands 2, if its on steam doesn't include any DRM other then Steam itself. While I dislike DRM in general because it punishes the people who buy the game and not the pirates, Steam is DRM that I am mostly happy with as for the most part it doesn't get in my way.

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey there -

While there aren't any plans currently to change anything in Borderlands, I wanted you guys to know that we read stuff like this and give the feedback about Borderlands 2 to the dev team.

[Ali-Sama]

this is like a meme, yo dawg, we heard you like drm, so we put drm in your drm?

[Silicon Vampire]

Hey there -

While there aren't any plans currently to change anything in Borderlands, I wanted you guys to know that we read stuff like this and give the feedback about Borderlands 2 to the dev team.

Lip service and nothing else. You people don't listen to squat.

[steamingears]

Lip service and nothing else. You people don't listen to squat.

Aint that their job? To pretend that they listen?

[japester]

Just because you don't get everything you ask for doesn't mean you aren't being heard.

It's perfectly acceptable to say you don't like SecuROM and want it removed, but keep it respectful. Insulting the devs isn't going to fly.

I've had the good fortune to meet several of the 2K staff over the years, including 2K Elizabeth. And I can assure you that they take all respectful, coherent, mature comments seriously. Good or bad. That's their job. But it's also their job to balance the realities of the gaming business against the desires of their fans, and due to their nature some of those realities cannot be discussed. That's the way it is for all game companies (and other businesses as well).

If it's any consolation, I remember similar complaints years ago when BioShock went to Steam. The explanation at that time was that SecuROM isn't something that can be easily removed. The nature of the DRM means that it is part of the base code, so removing it would require rewriting the game. It's not like some padlock that you can detach and throw away. It's woven in like threads in a garment. Not being a programmer myself, I don't know how true this is. But that was the explanation.

[_Pax_]

When I know in advance that SecuROM is included with a PC game, or it's DLC? I don't buy it for PC.

For example, my copy of Borderlands 1, and all the DLC for it? Xbox 360.

My copy of Bioshock 1? Xbox 360.

...

And when I only discover the inclusion of SecuROM during or after installing the game ...? I grow very, VERY annoyed with that game's publisher and developer (as was the case with Bioshock 2 - I wish I'd gotten _that_ for my Xbox, too).

>_<

IMO, SecuROM is "a virus with a badge". Nothing more, nothing less.

[steamingears]

Just because you don't get everything you ask for doesn't mean you aren't being heard.

It's perfectly acceptable to say you don't like SecuROM and want it removed, but keep it respectful. Insulting the devs isn't going to fly.

I've had the good fortune to meet several of the 2K staff over the years, including 2K Elizabeth. And I can assure you that they take all respectful, coherent, mature comments seriously. Good or bad. That's their job. But it's also their job to balance the realities of the gaming business against the desires of their fans, and due to their nature some of those realities cannot be discussed. That's the way it is for all game companies (and other businesses as well).

And we´re supposed to accept that lack of disclosure of the nature of such realities, and welcome all of the closed door business deals, like why Steam was made mandatory in DNF, why the bioshock 2 dlc was first not going to come to the pc and such. Yes, true is it´s way it is on other businesses too, and that´s why the business/corporate world is fundamentally flawed. The secret nature of their dealings is secret not only to the consumers/fans, but often to employees/shareholders and even executives too.

If it's any consolation, I remember similar complaints years ago when BioShock went to Steam. The explanation at that time was that SecuROM isn't something that can be easily removed. The nature of the DRM means that it is part of the base code, so removing it would require rewriting the game. It's not like some padlock that you can detach and throw away. It's woven in like threads in a garment. Not being a programmer myself, I don't know how true this is. But that was the explanation.

At least Borderlands and Duke Nukem both now have been added to the mac appstore, where there´s no Steamworks or Securom. I tell people that use macs, to get them in there:

Borderlands:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/borde...11888529?mt=12

Duke Nukem:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/duke-...61019864?mt=12

Aspyr is awesome!

[japester]

And we´re supposed to accept that lack of disclosure of the nature of such realities, and welcome all of the closed door business deals, like why Steam was made mandatory in DNF, why the bioshock 2 dlc was first not going to come to the pc and such.

Yup. It's the nature of reality. Kind of like "life isn't fair". It just is. Full disclosure has never been and never will be natural way of things, either in business or in any other aspect of our lives. I prefer to choose my battles.

I'm glad to hear that people with a real objection to this now have an option via iTunes. That's good news.

[Mooninaut]

I've had Borderlands for a while now, and I just bought all the DLC on Steam. I was surprised, disappointed and more than a little outraged that Borderlands, a game that does not have SecureROM, would have SecureROM in its DLC. I would never knowingly buy any PC game that has SecuROM or any similar kind of limited activation / system hook DRM. I will be asking Steam for a refund.

Steam is a kind of DRM, I'll admit, but it doesn't install a rootkit, doesn't limit the number of computers I can use it on, doesn't make me screw around with CD keys, activations, authorizing, deauthorizing or any of the BS that the intrusive forms of DRM force legitimate users to go through.

If you remove SecureROM from the Borderlands DLC in the future, I'll be happy to buy it.

By the way, not only is SecuROM a horrible program, when the activation screen popped up, it didn't display in the game, it opened another window behind the game which was running fullscreen. I thought the game had crashed with a seemingly perpetual loading screen. I had to alt-tab out, and then the mouse cursor went invisible so I couldn't click on the CD key entry window, then I couldn't load the Steam interface to get the CD key, and it took five minutes of fiddling around and alt-tabbing before I could even enter the cd key. Then I realized what was going on, quit the game and came here to post this.

I really like Borderlands, and so I am very disappointed that something this silly is preventing me from playing the DLC.

[Ali-Sama]

And we´re supposed to accept that lack of disclosure of the nature of such realities, and welcome all of the closed door business deals, like why Steam was made mandatory in DNF, why the bioshock 2 dlc was first not going to come to the pc and such. Yes, true is it´s way it is on other businesses too, and that´s why the business/corporate world is fundamentally flawed. The secret nature of their dealings is secret not only to the consumers/fans, but often to employees/shareholders and even executives too.



At least Borderlands and Duke Nukem both now have been added to the mac appstore, where there´s no Steamworks or Securom. I tell people that use macs, to get them in there:

Borderlands:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/borde...11888529?mt=12

Duke Nukem:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/duke-...61019864?mt=12

Aspyr is awesome!

Bioshock 2 has dlc? btw. Duke Nukem does not have securom. http://steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com/the-big-drm-list/

When I know in advance that SecuROM is included with a PC game, or it's DLC? I don't buy it for PC.

For example, my copy of Borderlands 1, and all the DLC for it? Xbox 360.

My copy of Bioshock 1? Xbox 360.

...

And when I only discover the inclusion of SecuROM during or after installing the game ...? I grow very, VERY annoyed with that game's publisher and developer (as was the case with Bioshock 2 - I wish I'd gotten _that_ for my Xbox, too).

>_<

IMO, SecuROM is "a virus with a badge". Nothing more, nothing less.

when did bioshock get securom?

[Mooninaut]

Wellllllllllllll Steam doesn't give refunds so I guess I can use the two packs that don't have SecuROM in them.

[_Pax_]

I actually love Steam, but I am now very very glad my copy of Borderlands was for the Xbox, not the PC.

[Ali-Sama]

Wellllllllllllll Steam doesn't give refunds so I guess I can use the two packs that don't have SecuROM in them.

you only deal with it when you go to them, also. You can deactivate the machine when you get a new pc.

I actually love Steam, but I am now very very glad my copy of Borderlands was for the Xbox, not the PC.

i have it on both. I am missing one dlc on xbox.

[Goteki45]

when did bioshock get securom?

At release. It was removed later (at which point I finally bought the game).

Just wanted to chime in again that it would be nice if this was resolved. I preordered Duke Nukem Forever to show support for not including SecuROM. I haven't played the game yet beyond the intro, and it was recently on sale for $5.

You got an extra $45 from me to show that SecuROM is a bad idea and abandoning it is a good one. I would show this again by purchasing the Borderlands DLC if SecuROM was removed from them. I really do want to play them, and at this point enough time has passed that removal being considered as it was done for Bioshock would be greatly appreciated.

[ParaFrost]

That's a pretty lame ultimatum you've got there oper. The "do what I want or you've lost my business" rubbish never changes anything unless you have about 100k more people.
That being said, I do agree with you. I still have nightmares about that bioshock 1 bs.

[japester]

I remember the hordes of people complaining on the forum about how horrible SecuROM was right after BioShock launched. People would tell horror stories about how it would crash your machine. Or make you vulnerable to attack. Or destroy your drive. Or force you to call and BEG for a new code if you used up all 25(!) of your activations (five each for five machines). And on and on. But when pressed for actual first-hand experience, nobody stepped forward. It was all manufactured hysteria. Eventually, out of the hundreds of "I heard about a guy..." posts, a few legitimate problems stepped forward. But glitchy codes were replaced immediately. And guys with hardware conflicts usually admitted to running questionable software like daemon tools.

A lot of AAA games that sold millions and millions of copies on PC used SecuROM. People who were vehemently opposed to getting BioShock for the PC because of SecuROM weren't even aware that it was already running on their system due to some other game. Oblivion GOTY Edition, Far Cry 2, Dead Space, GTA IV, C&C: Red Alert 3, Mirrors Edge, Mass Effect, and on and on. It only became an issue because of the limited activations. And those were eventually removed from BioShock.

[_Pax_]

My objections to SecuROM were based on it using Root-Kit techniques, to try and make itself completely unremovable, even when the game it came with was uninstalled.

To my mind? That's hacking, that's theft of my drive space, and I won't tolerate it - even if, otherwise, it remained so invisible I would never have known it was there to begin with.

It's a matter of principle to me. If I'm a paying customer, don't treat me like a sneak-thief just waiting for you to turn your back. Because if you do? I'll stop being a paying customer ... and go spend my money elsewhere.

[Goteki45]

Or force you to call and BEG for a new code if you used up all 25(!) of your activations (five each for five machines). And on and on. But when pressed for actual first-hand experience, nobody stepped forward. It was all manufactured hysteria. Eventually, out of the hundreds of "I heard about a guy..." posts, a few legitimate problems stepped forward.

You must not have been looking in the same places I have.

And those were eventually removed from BioShock.

And that's when I bought the game. I've had issues with activation limit extenuating circumstances in the past (faulty HD controller on my computer required roughly 6 OS reinstallations without warning by the time I had it sorted and could replace the motherboard) and so I don't buy anything with limitations. Period.

My objections to SecuROM were based on it using Root-Kit techniques, to try and make itself completely unremovable, even when the game it came with was uninstalled.

To my mind? That's hacking, that's theft of my drive space, and I won't tolerate it - even if, otherwise, it remained so invisible I would never have known it was there to begin with.

It's a matter of principle to me. If I'm a paying customer, don't treat me like a sneak-thief just waiting for you to turn your back. Because if you do? I'll stop being a paying customer ... and go spend my money elsewhere.

Also this. One of the good things about reformatting my machine over and over is that it was able to remove the embedded null registry strings that some SecuROM titles hack in place to prevent removal by normal methods.

Even if SecuROM isn't as bad as other DRM out there (starforce), it still treats the paying customer worse than the pirates, because pirates don't have to deal with it. They just remove it.

That's why I preordered Borderlands when it came out on Steam without SecuROM, and why it was a slap in the face when the Steam DLC contained it. I bought the first DLC without noticing the SecuROM warning (it was scrolled off the visible portion of the screen below the purchase button at 1024x768 resolution) and as a result now I have to manually remove a part of a game that I paid for prior to launch in order to prevent it installing SecuROM (this also makes me unable to play the DLC content that I paid for). I didn't make the same mistake with Moxxi.

It's also obviously not necessary since Knoxx and Claptrap's Robot Revolution on Steam don't require it. It would be nice if some minor attention could be paid to remove it from the Zombie Island and Underdome Riot DLCs. It's been slightly over two years since the release of both of those DLC. It's clear that Gearbox/2K have newer games they're working on, and so Borderlands 1 isn't as much of a priority, but since it has been that long and the game isn't a priority anymore it would be nice to remove this limitation and allow the people who want the DLC but haven't gotten it yet to be able to buy it and play their games.

[Gwarsbane]

Its a shame, another sale comes along, and I check back and it still has DRM included with the addons.

Again remove the DRM and there would be at least 4 more sales (me and 3 friends that want it), more then likely more then that though as I'm sure there are still many others out there who will not buy the game till the DRM is gone.



Well maybe by the next sale. I just hope that the DRM is removed before Borderlands 2 comes out, because even if that doesn't have DRM in it, I wouldn't buy it till I have Borderlands 1. I like to play my games in order after all.

[TheUnlikelyHero]

I'll be honest. I joined the forums for the sole purpose of posting in this thread. I wish I wouldve known about securom before I purchased Borderlands on steam. I'm assuming you guys were aware of the issues with it since this crap wasnt included with the last 2 DLC packs. I've been having an issue activating The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned. I've been going back and forth with securom support to no avail. I copy and paste the serial key directly from Steam into the activation box (which is buggy as hell and I cant even see my mouse pointer when using it) and it keeps giving me invalid serial key errors, even when I use the manual activation method as described in their support section. They finally give me a standalone activation program that when I follow all the steps tells me that it was successful, but when I attempt to go to the DLC in game I'm greeted with another activation prompt and more invalid serial key errors. They even tried sending me an activation.lic file themselves to try instead of the ones I've generated from their site and it didnt work. Yes I've verified the game files. Im getting severely frustrated not being able to use software that I paid for and those butt-clowns over there keep sending canned responses every time they reply to me. I especially like the part in the disclaimer that reads 'You may NOT copy or disclose the information to anyone.' What a joke.

Anybody got any suggestions on how I can play my DLC? and is it really piracy if I download a pirated version of software that I've purchased the license to use? I'm trying to stay legit here and want to avoid doing so but if I dont have any other options and they cant fix their crappy DRM I'll be forced to.

TL;DR I Looooove borderlands and HAAAAAAATE Securom

[sintregal]

I never quite understood why publishers or developers would choose to use SecuRom. I understand that piracy is bad and that it should be stopped, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest that SecuRom does any such thing. It often seems to push some legitimate customers towards piracy. (justified or not)

I read somewhere that SecuRom costs around 20k base setup and then 10 to 20 cents per unit shipped. These numbers are probably off, but going with that math and a base line of 1 million in sales.
This means that SecuRom usage costs 2k between 120 and 220 thousand dollars, with no measurable return in piracy prevention.

Can anyone explain to me how this is a sound business decision? Honestly, I don't understand.

[Gwarsbane]

Another Steam sale is coming up and more then likely Borderlands will be on sale. Is there any chance of having the DRM removed? When its on sale, if the DRM was removed it would be an instant buy for me and a few friends.

I know a few people buying if the DRM is removed doesn't mean a whole lot, but there are many others out there that I'm sure would also buy if the DRM was removed. There are more of us that hold off on games like this due to DRM then you would expect.


Also think of the good PR it would create "2K Games Removes DRM to please customers who bought game".

[Azure]

Funnily enough I actually joined this forum just to have my say on this post too.

I bought borderlands only a few days ago (yes I know its 3 years old now) it was VERY slow at the start, but once i got further into it, it turned out to be a very good game!

I don't understand why everyone is complaining about this stupid SecuRom, the ONLY problem I see with it is that you have to have the disc inserted which I hope can be some-how removed in the future (maybe with a steam-based activation similar to Call Of Duty 2?) There are ways to easily get around the issue of not using the cd (plenty of cracks etc) but I would prefer a legal way (although i doubt its illegal if ive actually purchased the game?) anyway i wouldnt be able to update it >.>

But yeah, all those complaining are just wimps honestly, get over it! I agree and sympathise with the devs on this forum when they have to take such baseless claims and unneeded critisms from people who don't even know what they're talking about.

I guess the only (current) way to avoiding needing a CD is buying off steam? But I dislike having to download the whole game using my data when I'm paying the same price as a hard-copy =/ but that's an irrelevant issue.

[_Pax_]

I don't understand why everyone is complaining about this stupid SecuRom, [...]

SecuRom is essentialy a Rootkit. Which means, it works like a virus. If you uninstall a SecuRom title, the Securom Rootkit stays behind.

That's not behavior I tolerate on my PC.

(although i doubt its illegal if ive actually purchased the game?)

Circumventing the copy protection on a piece of software, even if you legally own that copy, is in fact a violation of the DMCA. You can be fined, or even jailed, for doing it.

[...] people who don't even know what they're talking about.

Sweet, sweet irony ...

[Gwarsbane]

Funnily enough I actually joined this forum just to have my say on this post too.

I bought borderlands only a few days ago (yes I know its 3 years old now) it was VERY slow at the start, but once i got further into it, it turned out to be a very good game!

I don't understand why everyone is complaining about this stupid SecuRom, the ONLY problem I see with it is that you have to have the disc inserted which I hope can be some-how removed in the future (maybe with a steam-based activation similar to Call Of Duty 2?) There are ways to easily get around the issue of not using the cd (plenty of cracks etc) but I would prefer a legal way (although i doubt its illegal if ive actually purchased the game?) anyway i wouldnt be able to update it >.>

But yeah, all those complaining are just wimps honestly, get over it! I agree and sympathise with the devs on this forum when they have to take such baseless claims and unneeded critisms from people who don't even know what they're talking about.

I guess the only (current) way to avoiding needing a CD is buying off steam? But I dislike having to download the whole game using my data when I'm paying the same price as a hard-copy =/ but that's an irrelevant issue.

I've had encounters with SecuRom before. It messed up my system quite a bit, to the point where I had to reformat my hard drive. Programs that had been working find, suddenly stopped working at all. No matter how many times I reinstalled those programs they would not work. There is no way legally to get around this stuff as was mentioned.

This version of SecuRom is also silly having on a steam based game, why? Because it limits how many times you can install the game. That is one of the silliest DRMs out there, next to always on connection for single player games.

You talk about people with baseless claims and yet don't even know if its legal to break the DRM or download pirated material even if you bought the game. You are the one who does not know what they are talking about.