SPQR - Rise of Rome

[Kruelgor]

nm...............................

[Bearspider]

Having some doubt about the forest penalty.

At war with macedonia atm and sooo much forest, giving 50%- to the roman legion who was by far more manoverbel and"forest"friendly the the macedonian phalanx seems a bit wrong.

[vonJahgmann]

Turn 283, you're getting close to crash time. It'll crash before you get to turn 350 most likely.

1. Is it isolated to the scenario map, or does it also affect random maps?
2. Is it the unplayable barbarians or minor city states causing the crash?
3. Is it the fact that technologies and units are assigned a number?
4. Is it the fact that I uploaded a bunch of blank MP3s to erase late era songs?
5. A million other possibilities.

Is it expected that saved games in your mod, from earlier versions, are not supported with newly updated betas? If yes, then my issue is not related. If no, then I have a repeatable crash upon re-load.

If it helps, I am playing the scenario not the random map.

[Kruelgor]

Having some doubt about the forest penalty.

At war with macedonia atm and sooo much forest, giving 50%- to the roman legion who was by far more manoverbel and"forest"friendly the the macedonian phalanx seems a bit wrong.

Good point. Maybe Phalanx should suffer from the same penalty? OR, you could try hiring some Foederati to assist in the forest.

Realistically though, I think Phalanx units should probably suffer the same penalty.

[Kruelgor]

Is it expected that saved games in your mod, from earlier versions, are not supported with newly updated betas? If yes, then my issue is not related. If no, then I have a repeatable crash upon re-load.

If it helps, I am playing the scenario not the random map.

I appreciate your feedback and status updates. For saved games, it would probablty depend on how far back a version it goes. Generally yes old saves games will work, but not always, I noticed.

[vonJahgmann]

Realistically though, I think Phalanx units should probably suffer the same penalty.

I've been struggling a bit with the "feel" and game play of open/reward, forest/penalty notion. Take these suggestions with a grain of salt...

1. Reduce the forest terrain combat penalty from 50% to 33%
2. Remove the freebie Shock promotion from the various Legion units
3. Create a new Open Terrain Reward and set to 33% fighting bonus

Personally, I'd like to see the fighting penalty match the fighting bonus. Unless you changed the mechanics of the the Shock promotion, that 20% reward seems imbalanced to the new rough terrain penalty.

As for game play, right now I'm on a sidewalk conveyor belt for Legions --- *always* opting to take the Drill promotions with Legions to make them more effective. If the bonus and penalties were closely aligned, I might opt to take a Shock2 every now and then.

[Kruelgor]

I appreciate that feedback.

Historically, the Roman Legion was greatly feared in the open field. It was almost invincible for centuries in the open field, but every now and then they would get caught up in forest combat and would very often lose the battle there. Also, I want to make it almost impossible for Rome to conquer the barbarian civs so I think I'll keep it at the 50%.

As far as Macedonia goes, I'll remove some of the trees in the area (maybe). I need to look at it.

One other thing to remember, I purposely designed this to hopefully be a tough challenge when played on Prince mode (or higher).

I don't want it to be a piece of cake for the player, especially if it's your first few times to play it.

[whoward69]

Fixes for lots of missing refernces in HC V3

In new_units.xml

<GameData>
	<!-- Table data -->
	<CivilianAttackPriorities>
	</CivilianAttackPriorities>
	<Units>
		<Delete />
	</Units>
<!-- WH Start -->
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="Units" column="Type" />
<!-- WH End -->
	<Units>

In MinorCivs.xml

<GameData>
	<MinorCivilizations>
		<Delete />
<!-- WH Start -->
	</MinorCivilizations>
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="MinorCivilizations" column="Type" />
	<MinorCivilizations>
<!-- WH End -->
		<Row>

In new_buildings.xml

<!-- Building Maintenance is Cost divided by 25 -->
<GameData>
	<Buildings>
		<Delete />
	</Buildings>
<!-- WH Start -->
  <!-- References to BUILDING_GARDEN in this file (towards the end) should be BUILDING_SPQR_GARDEN -->
  <!-- References to BUILDING_GRANARY in this file (towards the end) should be BUILDING_SPQR_GRANARY -->
  <!-- References to BUILDING_SEWERSYSTEM in this file (towards the end) should be BUILDING_SEWER_SYSTEM -->
<!-- WH End -->
		<DeleteMissingReferences table="Buildings" column="Type" />

In new_building_classes.xml

<GameData>
	<BuildingClasses>
		<Delete />
	</BuildingClasses>
<!-- WH Start -->
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="BuildingClasses" column="Type" />
<!-- WH End -->
	<BuildingClasses>

In DeleteCivilizations.xml

	</Civilizations>

<!-- WH Start -->
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="Civilizations" column="Type" />
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="Improvements" column="Type" /> <!-- Trashing Polynesia, wipes out Moai, so tidy that up -->
	<DeleteMissingReferences table="Traits" column="Type" />       <!-- Trashing Moai, wipes out the Way Finding trait, so tidy that up -->
<!-- WH End -->
</GameData>

In SPQR_technologies.xml

<GameData>
	<Technologies>
		<Delete />
	</Technologies>
<!-- WH Start -->
	<!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, do a DeleteMissingReferences on the Technologies table!!! -->
	<Resources>
		<Update>
			<Set TechCityTrade="NULL"/>
		</Update>
	</Resources>
	<Technology_Flavors>
		<Delete />
		<!-- See also commented out block in this table in (much) further down this file -->
	</Technology_Flavors>
	<Technology_PrereqTechs>
		<Delete />
		<!-- See also commented out block in this table in (much) further down this file -->
	</Technology_PrereqTechs>
	<Improvement_TechYieldChanges>
		<Delete />
	</Improvement_TechYieldChanges>
	<Improvement_TechNoFreshWaterYieldChanges>
		<Delete />
	</Improvement_TechNoFreshWaterYieldChanges>
	<Improvement_TechFreshWaterYieldChanges>
		<Delete />
	</Improvement_TechFreshWaterYieldChanges>
	<Traits>
		<Update>
			<Set ObsoleteTech="NULL"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Set FreeUnitPrereqTech="NULL"/>
		</Update>
	</Traits>
<!-- WH End -->
	<Technologies>

	<Technology_Flavors>
<!-- WH Start - Remove ALL these Deletes
		<Delete TechType="TECH_AGRICULTURE" FlavorType="FLAVOR_GROWTH" Flavor="5" />

	<Technology_PrereqTechs>
<!-- WH Start - Remove ALL these Deletes
		<Delete TechType="TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY" PrereqTech="TECH_AGRICULTURE" />

That will get the 2800+ database.log errors down to 76 - I'm investigating those

[Kruelgor]

That's very kind of you, whoward69.

How much do I owe you?

I'll place a "Thank you whoward69" somewhere in the next update notes.

[whoward69]

That's very kind of you, whoward69..

My pleasure

How much do I owe you? ..

Being able to play your scenario will be enough reward

[MAHak]

While playing as Egypt, latest version, i ran into this bug. When i selected to build the slave camp in my second city i lost control of where to place my citizens, i had to set avoid growth on and then off to regain control.

Also it seems that the "queen policy" in the monarchy policy branch provide +10 culture in all cities not just your capital.

Lastly some prefences: The geography of Egypt seems a little weird, there is flood plains in the desert regions several tiles away from the Nile, you should also remove the fur resource from the area, well i think furs are related to much more frigid areas. I know you want the civs to found their own cities but it just fills wrong that there is no cities along the Nile(apart from Alexandria) it was inhabited by people for thousands of years before game start, maybe make it so all civs have minimum 3 historical places cities and then make settlers more expensives to compensate.

[Kruelgor]

While playing as Egypt, latest version, i ran into this bug. When i selected to build the slave camp in my second city i lost control of where to place my citizens, i had to set avoid growth on and then off to regain control.

Also it seems that the "queen policy" in the monarchy policy branch provide +10 culture in all cities not just your capital.

Lastly some prefences: The geography of Egypt seems a little weird, there is flood plains in the desert regions several tiles away from the Nile, you should also remove the fur resource from the area, well i think furs are related to much more frigid areas. I know you want the civs to found their own cities but it just fills wrong that there is no cities along the Nile(apart from Alexandria) it was inhabited by peoples for thousands of years before game start, maybe make it so all civs have minimum 3 historical places cities and then make settlers more expensives to compensate.

Thanks for that. If you want more cities you'll have to build them yourself with settlers. I'm not going to place more cities down for Egypt because quite frankly Egypt wasn't that powerful at the time period.

[Kruelgor]

Improving the Legacy Units concept a bit:

Roman Phalanx I, Warrior I, and Savage I: 100% upgrade discount for life.

Roman Phalanx II, Warrior II, and Savage II: 75% upgrade discount for life.

Roman Phalanx III, Warrior III, and Savage III: 50% upgrade discount for life.

Savage IV: 25% upgrade discount for life.

[Kruelgor]

Making the Forge and Workshop more worthy by increasing their production modifier from 15% to 25%.

[Kruelgor]

Phalanx + Forest = 50% combat penalty (just like legions)

[Kruelgor]

oh yeah, this expanded database.log is the bomb

[Kruelgor]

Got this error message after some XML changes were made.

This error occurs whenever a WorldBuilder map is loaded.

I'll have to reverse my changes to pinpoint what exactly is causing this error.

Something tells me it started happening after I removed the <ID> numbers for the units, but I'm not sure.

[nigelr1812]

Back from my hols in Gaul and back playing, so back to give feedback, at least on gameplay, historical feel etc, as certainly not a modder/programmer just a gamer and history buff!!! but looking awesome

[nigelr1812]

ps first impressionj is the game seems a lot slower, as only have one city-Rome but it's taking some time between turns - more waiting??

[nigelr1812]

bug report, bought a sag1 archer which i was then given the option to upgrade for 0 gold, which i thought why not, just in case but on the next turn i was offered the same option again

[nigelr1812]

its only 486bc Carthage has declared war and landed 10 plus warriors (III) via amphib invasion right next to Rome, it's looking grim already!!!!!

[nigelr1812]

update on the battle of Rome, I was able to freely destroy 9 carthage units and they didn't once attack Rome, AI perhaps need a tweek?

[nigelr1812]

is this correct to upgrade a phallanx II to III costs the Romans 750 gold, seems excessive???

[nigelr1812]

Another query, just unlocked exceutive magistrates and my next social policy has increased dramtically from 1500 to 4450 points, which can't be right otherwise why would I want to unlock Republic for the Romans??? Bug?????

[nigelr1812]

ps i now have 3 cities and it will take 112 turns until my next policy, as i'm generating 35 points per turn. It's currently turn 257 and 378bc

[nigelr1812]

Carthage has just landed at Capua via amphib invasion but once more did not carry out any attacks on the city

[whoward69]

I have database.log down to

[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIEconomicStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_OPTICS" does not exist in Technologies
[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIMilitaryStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_FLIGHT" does not exist in Technologies
[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIMilitaryStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_ATOMIC_THEORY" does not exist in Technologies
[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIMilitaryStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_FLIGHT" does not exist in Technologies
[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIMilitaryStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_RADIO" does not exist in Technologies
[20151.085] Invalid Reference on AIMilitaryStrategies.TechPrereq - "TECH_RADIO" does not exist in Technologies

Despite what it says in the XML files

<!-- Entries in this file define the attributes of various AI Player Strategies.  
Entries can be completely removed safely, ...-->

It lies, and removing the entries cause the game to crash on turn 1 - which leads me to suspect that something in the core is hard-code to look for particular strategies at particular times, which may be why the game crashes between turns X and Y

(But without the source all this is just guess-work!)

Think I'll try allocating these strategies to the very last tech in the tree, and see what happens

[Kruelgor]

Don't waste too much time with the database.log, now that I got the LoggingEnabled = 1 I've cleared out most of the errors there, and will finish clearing out the rest.

[Kruelgor]

Another query, just unlocked exceutive magistrates and my next social policy has increased dramtically from 1500 to 4450 points, which can't be right otherwise why would I want to unlock Republic for the Romans??? Bug?????

That sounds right, not a bug.

[Kruelgor]

bug report, bought a sag1 archer which i was then given the option to upgrade for 0 gold, which i thought why not, just in case but on the next turn i was offered the same option again

Sounds odd. I'll look into it.

[Kruelgor]

is this correct to upgrade a phallanx II to III costs the Romans 750 gold, seems excessive???

In the next update, it will cost Legacy Units less to upgrade....but the average cost for non-legacy units will be $1,000 to upgrade. Better generate some money somewhere. Capturing of cities yields a lot of money. Mint adds quite a bit too. Sun Deity and Proconsul will add +10 gold per city.

[nigelr1812]

just reached 4450 social points and it's now jumped to 12050 and I have only made 4 cultural advances whilst some of the computer oppoents have started on the age of ambtion some time ago - is this right?

[whoward69]

Policy costs can be determined from the formula given here - http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/M...ocial_Policies - and by knowing where some of the "POLICY_COST" magic numbers appear in it. But it's easier to start FireTuner and give yourself a load of culture and see what the nubers are!

1 City of 1 Pop - Policies 1 thru 7 (the first is an "opener")
700, 700, 915, 2470, 6700, 14970, 28630

2 Cities of 1 Pop each
745, 745, 980, 2640, 7170, 16015, 30635

3 Cities of 1 Pop each
795, 795, 1045, 2815, 7640, 17065, 32640

4 Cities of 1 Pop each
845, 845, 1110, 2985, 8110, 18110, 34645

The killer value IIRC is "POLICY_COST_EXPONENT"

[Kruelgor]

just reached 4450 social points and it's now jumped to 12050 and I have only made 4 cultural advances whilst some of the computer oppoents have started on the age of ambtion some time ago - is this right?

Reaching the Age of Ambition doesn't have anything to do with policies. Most likely they researched the Wheat discovery.

This is designed to be difficult, not a casual joy ride. It's also designed where the average player will only complete 2 to 4 Policy Branches in an entire 1000 turn game. Therefore, choose your policies wisely. There is strategy required.

There are several policies and structures that will help to get policies faster. The Senate, for example, reduces policy cost by 50%.

[nigelr1812]

All feedback noted but my 3 cities have proconsuls, sun deities, war deities, monumnets etc.

Built the senate quickly which didn't seem to have any effect on policy costs

[Kruelgor]

Built the senate quickly which didn't seem to have any effect on policy costs

I'm pretty sure it does, I'll double check.

[whoward69]

Built the senate quickly which didn't seem to have any effect on policy costs

It doesn't affect policy cost it affects "culture production"

If before building the Senate you are at "50/800" culture after building it you will be at "75/800" (not "50/400")

[nigelr1812]

Observations - at the moment I have to earn 22950 point to earn a golden age whilst only at 4500 having reached turn 405. Also, at the moment it's seems a massive hill to climb to move beyond the Republic policies before the age of Augustus and Empire as the progress is so slow to earn 12,050

I have just built a mint which is a big help but up to now I could only manage to maintain 2 Manip I legions to the extent I had to sell a slave. By the way how can i get a replacement as it's not obvious unless the answer is not possible?

What levels do you recommend playing at, as I am playing King and Epic?

[whoward69]

Do you still know the GUID (ModID) for the first version or SPQR? I have a theory why the scenario doesn't show any Civs in the drop-down list the first time a game is loaded and would like to try something out that needs that id

[whoward69]

Think I'll try allocating these strategies to the very last tech in the tree, and see what happens

	<AIMilitaryStrategies>
		<Update>
			<Set TechObsolete="NULL" />
		</Update>
		<Update><Where TechPrereq="TECH_FLIGHT" /><Set TechPrereq="TECH_NEW_AGE" /></Update>
		<Update><Where TechPrereq="TECH_RADIO" /><Set TechPrereq="TECH_NEW_AGE" /></Update>
		<Update><Where TechPrereq="TECH_ATOMIC_THEORY" /><Set TechPrereq="TECH_NEW_AGE" /></Update>
	</AIMilitaryStrategies>
	<AIEconomicStrategies>
		<Update><Where TechPrereq="TECH_OPTICS" /><Set TechPrereq="TECH_NEW_AGE" /></Update>
	</AIEconomicStrategies>
	<AICityStrategies>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="AICITYSTRATEGY_FIRST_SCIENCE_BUILDING"/>
			<Set TechPrereq="TECH_LIBRARY"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="AICITYSTRATEGY_FIRST_GOLD_BUILDING"/>
			<Set TechPrereq="TECH_MARKET"/>
		</Update>
	</AICityStrategies>

Seems to be the "best" bet