The Civ Rev Thinking Gamers Guide to...

[Zso_Zso]

I have a new addiction, it is an online fantasy card-game with strong strategy elements -- pardon the pun -- the game is called Elements and can be played here:

http://www.elementsthegame.com/

There are many different cards in the game (several hundred), but you only play with a limited subset 30-60 that you choose to build your deck, from which you pull randomly during a game. There are many combinations and synergies between cards, so it takes deep strategy to design and build a good deck that can beat various opponents.

There are 3 major modes:
1. against AI with 5 levels of difficulty
2. multiplayer
3. something in-between, where players submit decks to the system (arena) and other players can play against the decks as controlled by the AI. Then the decks are ranked based on win/loss counts. So you can let the AI play the decks you designed against human players.

A single game is only a few minutes long, but you need to play many thousands of games to get good and also to collect the cards as you start out with a minimal starter set and then you need to "earn" the rest by winning games.

[Zefelius]

I've been posting in the Skyrim forum lately. Just thought I should admit that... I feel like I'm cheating on you guys!! ha! I don't know if there's a difference yet or not, but one thing in common they have with the Civ crowd is that there are plenty of egos. It's kind of funny what gets people riled up in the world of videogames.

[Star428]

That card game your describing Zso_Zso sounds very similar to 'Magic: Duels of the Planeswalkers'. A very fun strategy card game. It's the only other game i ever play besides Civ.

[Zefelius]

I have to once again give the gaming community kudos for being so smart and adept. When I play Skyrim as a mage I often times die over 20 times battling enemies. I've even put the game on an easier level, next to the lowest, and I still find that the enemies are fast, relentless, and powerful---they will kill me on the easier level 20-25 times before I move onto a different cave where the same thing happens.

So I once again find it interesting how games marketed to a mass audience, which are very popular, are quite difficult. If only these players invested as much time and effort in their studies/work this country might once again be competitive in math and the sciences!

One last note: the Skyrim forums aren't as helpful as this one. Over there it seems like 80% of comments are about stories, what people found, what their style is like in the game, how they interact with other game entities, etc. There's less focus on strategy, although they do talk about that too. But they don't have threads which break down the strategy the way we do it here. It's much less organized; instead, someone might ask for advice, and once the question is answered the thread will fade away. So there's no systematic organization of strategy topics, and thus no way to check up on the best ways of getting through the game.

So I'm not sure how far I'll get. I've played other initially hard games like Civ Rev and Dead Space, but the adreneline of those games kept me motivated to keep advancing. In Skyrim there isn't much adreneline at all. It's fun, but not if I keep dying 20-25 times every other battle (not counting the easy ones against wolves and skeletons, of course).

[HydroDragon]

I think you're probably making these games harder than they should be, lol. My general strategy in Skyrim is to pick off enemies from a distance with a bow and arrow sneakily then use 2-handed weapons when my cover is blown. I have the best heavy armor and 100 heavy armor skill so that's probably why I don't find combat difficult, though I don't remember dying very often even in the early stages. And also, I play very carefully, I never charge in. I'm pretty much always in sneak mode inside a dungeon unless I definitely know there are no enemies in earshot.

Plus I've found that in dungeons with the draugr (zombies) you can usually kill most of them before they even get up if you're observant. You can easily tell the difference between a genuine dead body and one that will get up and fight you, and sneak attack them while they're lying down. You can even take out draugr inside coffins by casting one of those 'mine' spells on the coffin (IDK what they're called). As a mage that might be a nice trick.

I suppose you're wearing clothes or light armor right? There are a lot of defensive spells, stuff like Ebonyflesh supposedly doubles your armor though I haven't tried it myself. And you have those wards that are like a shield to absorb damage. And there are perks for mages to make clothing absorb damage better I think. And you can always use a healing spell in one hand while using your other hand for fighting. And of course, you can pause to use potions if your health gets low.

But as a mage I think the idea is to take the pressure off yourself by turning enemies against each other or summoning allies to fight for you. Summon some creatures, raise the undead, even take a permanent companion if you need it. WHY DON'T YOU DO THESE THINGS ZEF, WHY.

I'd love to see a video of you playing to see why you're finding it so difficult....

[Zefelius]

I think you're probably making these games harder than they should be, lol. My general strategy in Skyrim is to pick off enemies from a distance with a bow and arrow sneakily then use 2-handed weapons when my cover is blown. I have the best heavy armor and 100 heavy armor skill so that's probably why I don't find combat difficult, though I don't remember dying very often even in the early stages. And also, I play very carefully, I never charge in. I'm pretty much always in sneak mode inside a dungeon unless I definitely know there are no enemies in earshot.

Plus I've found that in dungeons with the draugr (zombies) you can usually kill most of them before they even get up if you're observant. You can easily tell the difference between a genuine dead body and one that will get up and fight you, and sneak attack them while they're lying down. You can even take out draugr inside coffins by casting one of those 'mine' spells on the coffin (IDK what they're called). As a mage that might be a nice trick.

I suppose you're wearing clothes or light armor right? There are a lot of defensive spells, stuff like Ebonyflesh supposedly doubles your armor though I haven't tried it myself. And you have those wards that are like a shield to absorb damage. And there are perks for mages to make clothing absorb damage better I think. And you can always use a healing spell in one hand while using your other hand for fighting. And of course, you can pause to use potions if your health gets low.

But as a mage I think the idea is to take the pressure off yourself by turning enemies against each other or summoning allies to fight for you. Summon some creatures, raise the undead, even take a permanent companion if you need it. WHY DON'T YOU DO THESE THINGS ZEF, WHY.

I'd love to see a video of you playing to see why you're finding it so difficult....

Maybe I'll go back to being an Orc... on the apprentice level (next to lowest) I got to level 17 okay. Then I started over as a Dark Elf and it got very hard around level 10 (I'm at 12 right now) at the same apprentice level. Maybe you're right and I'm overthinking it. But I've tried everything: casting ward spells, using potions mid-battle, enchanting weapons, using my healing spells, using staffs along with magic, etc. But there's always a drawback. For example, if I use a ward spell my magicka drains pretty quickly, even though I've increased it every other level along with my health. So that means I can't use my destruction spells as much for attack.

Also, weirdly, I've found the higher level apprentice spells to be worse the novice ones in some ways: they're smaller and so I miss more often than the wider novice ones, then have to be charged up which takes a second or two each time, they drain more magicka which is a bummer until I get a perk to compensate for it, and they are broken up as opposed to the novice ones which continuously streamed forth in the direction fo the enemy. On the plus side they do more damage, but that barely compensates for the drawbacks.

In the other forum one guy said to move around a lot. But then enemy mages/enemies will follow me with their stream of fire or frost, and I'll see only flames, bump into a wall and get trapped between it and some other wall, desk, etc. I'll fire back but their steady stream eventually kills me. It's actually kind of funny and I think you would get a kick out of watching me trip all over the place, bumping into walls, casting spells on Lydia as she gets between me and the enemy, and eventually falling to the ground with all sorts of ice spears piercing my dead body!!!

I think I'm just game retarded and will have to play at the novice level intended for 10 year olds! No shame in that...

[Zefelius]

P.S. It sounds like your success comes partly from playing very carefully (like using sneak) and also using a wider variety of skills. On the first point you're probably right to do that, and maybe I've just been too lazy b/c it seems like it would become really tedious to me to sneak all the time and play so carefully unless I were a thief. On the second point I could adjust more. I assumed I should try to focus on less skills in order to develop them into more powerful versions and not be too spread out, and so I never thought to mix something like archery and two-handed the way you do. I figured as a mage, for example, that I shouldn't have a shield or heavy weapon---so I carry only small enchanted daggers. Is that bad?

[HydroDragon]

P.S. It sounds like your success comes partly from playing very carefully (like using sneak) and also using a wider variety of skills. On the first point you're probably right to do that, and maybe I've just been too lazy b/c it seems like it would become really tedious to me to sneak all the time and play so carefully unless I were a thief. On the second point I could adjust more. I assumed I should try to focus on less skills in order to develop them into more powerful versions and not be too spread out, and so I never thought to mix something like archery and two-handed the way you do. I figured as a mage, for example, that I shouldn't have a shield or heavy weapon---so I carry only small enchanted daggers. Is that bad?

Yeah, It just occured to me while I was writing that everybody might not sneak around as much as I do. This has been my approach in the Fallout games too, try to get as many sneak attack criticals with a silenced rifle as I can before engaging the enemy properly. My first hit on an enemy is pretty much always a sneak attack critical with an arrow which often kills them instantly without revealing my position to anyone else.

Not sure my approach would work with a mage though, I take it every spell you cast makes a lot of light and sound and reveals your position. You might want to try some kind of long-range spell that turns enemies against each other, I think I've seen one called 'frenzy' that does that? From the sounds of it, that enemy would then attack the other enemies and do some damage before they eventually kill him.

The in-game tips recommend using electricity-based spells on wizards to drain their mana, after that they're just extremely weak fighters with a dagger or a staff if they're higher-level. If you've got the staff of magnus that should work in the same way too.

You shouldn't listen to me too much BTW, I haven't played as a mage and I'm sure it's more difficult, just not that difficult.

As for a mage carrying a shield or daggers, I guess that's a personal choice. There are spells to summon a bow and some kind of axe so you wouldn't need those. A shield might be a good idea to provide extra defense, who knows. It might be useful when fighting dragons or something with a periodic attack so you could block their breath attacks with it and then heal/attack with the other hand. I know at lower levels I used a shield in one hand and a healing spell in the other to heal myself to full health while being attacked, but then I'd end up with full health and no mana which was great for me as a non-mage but probably bad for you.

Fighting mages is easy if your first attack hits before they're ready for it, otherwise it becomes much more difficult. Those protection spells they cast seem to absorb a lot of damage so they must be good when you use them too.

Also, don't forget to use shouts! Unrelenting Force is awesome but mages can block it with those protection spells I think. If you catch them before they're ready you could send them flying and then tear into them while they're defenseless on the floor. Actually now that I think about it, when I'm fighting mages their 'stream' attacks do a lot of damage but I often interrupt them with a power attack or a shout, is that something a mage could do?

P.S: I've probably just got a lot more experience with these games without realizing it so maybe they are actually difficult and I'm just accustomed to it.....like when I explained to my grandad that I was playing a game with other people over the internet and he just couldn't understand it, lol.....

[Zefelius]

After saying I would give it up because I hated dying so much I played yet again... like a true junkie!!

[ScottieX]

P.S. It sounds like your success comes partly from playing very carefully (like using sneak) and also using a wider variety of skills. On the first point you're probably right to do that, and maybe I've just been too lazy b/c it seems like it would become really tedious to me to sneak all the time and play so carefully unless I were a thief. On the second point I could adjust more. I assumed I should try to focus on less skills in order to develop them into more powerful versions and not be too spread out, and so I never thought to mix something like archery and two-handed the way you do. I figured as a mage, for example, that I shouldn't have a shield or heavy weapon---so I carry only small enchanted daggers. Is that bad?

I just charge around in dungeons and run straight at enemies.
Usualy i work out somthing to kill them fairly quickly even if they kill me the first time. But usualy you can tell thy are a bit tough for that strategy quickly.

One thing tht seems to work is finding some terrain that that cant get at you easily - attack them with somthign like the dragon fire shout and some destruction spells or whatever - then pop out of cover to get them to come back or run away if they get up where you are - and repeat.

But yeah i think archery is the most powerful weapon in the game. I'd rather not do much sneaking though - im more hack and splatter and on to hte next objective

[SVPM]

Mage are really harder then the other, especially when you level as damage don't grow with level. EVery other character type sees their damage grows as their skill grows and the weapon too gets better. The higher level spell aren't necessarly better as they are all mass effect which could kill your partner and or conjured allies.

[Legatus]

Picked up Skyrim on Sunday, but haven't started it yet. Still cleaning up some FF XIII stuff.

Question: I've gathered that the character is somewhat like Fable in that you can choose to focus on meele fighting, archery, magic, or any combination of the bunch. I know playing style has a lot to do with this, but which style/combo have people found to be the most fun?

I'll probably barely have enough time to play this once, let alone multiple times, and I know want to repeat what I did in Dragon Age, which was unknowingly create a character designed to be a tank, which is a very boring way to play! (I eventually restarted as a mage)

Thanks.

[HydroDragon]

That's the beauty of this game. You can do anything you want. You don't choose a class, your skills just level up as you use them. Therefore, if you want to be a mage, use spells. If you want to be a tank, wear heavy armor. That's it. You can even do weird combinations like a mage with a shield or whatever. It's totally up to you.

Unlike Dragon Age where you choose 1 class and you're stuck in that for the whole game.

[SVPM]

I've played some King Arthur 2: the role playing wargame.

It seems interesting, I haven't played enough to recommend it or not. It's a strategy game (like the total war series), but with lots of RPG elements. You have heroes and you do quest. you are good or evil, christian or pagan. Your heroes and units level up...

It's the same company (paradox) that made Europa universalis

[Hellogoodbye123]

soooooo...

anyone looking forward to that new strategy game?

....twisted metal for ps3? :P haha

it is certainly a marvelous strategy game dealing with risk factors that make it the more intense !!

[Mawpawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mLH...eature=related

i liked this game.

[Hellogoodbye123]

lol?...... ^^^^^^

[ITZ DENI3D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mLH...eature=related

i liked this game.

Funny as hell lol.

[ITZ DENI3D]

I thought this was pretty funny too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa44lDNKsb0

What I learned... DON'T F*** WITH YODA!

[SVPM]

There will be an expansion for Civ V coming late spring. Maybe they'll have time to work on civ rev 2 after that!!!

[JackHall2003]

There will be an expansion for Civ V coming late spring. Maybe they'll have time to work on civ rev 2 after that!!!

Let's not hold our breath though, eh?

[ITZ DENI3D]

Showing Mawpawk a thing or 2 about halo wars. He thinks he will beat me someday

[Mawpawk]

iv had halo wars for 4yrs i think.. neva thought much of it as i had the mighty civ rev 2 appease my gaming appetite but i had a few games and beatings today and im kinda liking it any1 got thoughts on this old game? and i wont just beat u denied i will destroy you... like i said my skill is reading people ...and you my friend is a business card challenge on!

[Mawpawk]

halo wars halo wars, can sum1 tell me how 2 kill that stupid flying leader thing that keeps healing...its purple pink

[HydroDragon]

Sounds like a prophet? I played it at a friend's house years ago.

[ITZ DENI3D]

LoL a lot of anti air or double team with alien anti air and then drop disruption bomb. I will show you You will get it eventually, just don't expect to beat me unless I have a stroke or something But knowing my luck I probably will so congrats on the future win!

[spikethedee]

My local Game has copies of Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars for under a tenner. Worth a look for Civ Rev devotees???

[JackHall2003]

My local Game has copies of Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars for under a tenner. Worth a look for Civ Rev devotees???

As a civ rev devotee, personally I find nothing else worth a look. I've tried, but within hours each time just go back to civ.

EDIT to add - You still have a local GAME? lol.

[spikethedee]

EDIT to add - You still have a local GAME? lol.

Yeah, there's a Gamestation which has closed, but Game across the road has a big sign saying that "we're here to stay and not going anywhere"

Will see how long that lasts!!

[SVPM]

Crusader King 2 is a really great game. Same developper as Europa Universalis and use the same engine as EU3. It is less complex to play it then EU3, but still has really deep strategy going on.

There is a hard learning curve at the start though (a couple of hours to understand what's going on and then many and many more to grasp everything).

The paradox community is also really good and the replayaility is almost infinite with the enormous quantity of mod made by player.

[Chug E]

I got R.U.S.E. I've only played the first stage of the basic game and it doesn't appear to be anything like the blurb, so there might be something to it I've missed, as it didn't seem to have the abiliy to use the ruses of the title, so maybe you've got to play the thing through once or something. If it plays like it says it does in the book and blurb, then it might be a good alternative.

I got RUSE right when it came out. It's actually pretty cool and could've had some of the potential Civ Rev has if more people played it. At the beginning there were a decent amount of people playing it, but it quickly wore off. I stopped playing it because I couldn't ever get any decent competition online on a regular basis.

When I was playing it tho, I had some team games that were super fun and knock out fights. Like 2hr games.. Has a ton of potential, but not enough support.

[JackHall2003]

Disgaea 4: A Promise Unforgotten - This caught my eye being promoted as a strategy game. Never heard of the franchise though maybe worth some further investigation.

[ITZ DENI3D]

MAW gave me a bit of a scare in Halo Wars today, he is definitely getting better in strides but I put him back in his place relatively quick

[Mawpawk]

ah the beauty of halo wars, yes denied you r a better player than me but i will own u soon

[Mawpawk]

thinking games hmmm. i played denied in a gun game (black ops) and he nearly won evry game but i still think im better

[ITZ DENI3D]

he nearly won evry game but i still think im better

Thats all that matters. Your pizza would've gone rotten if you didn't quit when you did. Waiting to beat me is like waiting for the sun to implode, have fun

[phillosophe]

online connections are horrendous, constant disconnect, I got excited for this game, bought it at release, played the campaign (which is quite hard) until I got familiar with controls, then thought I was ready for MP, but kept disconnecting. I was running wire connections at 15MB+ so no prob there, the online coding for PS3 was horrible and they never released a patch. Sold after a few weeks. :/

[phillosophe]

I got RUSE right when it came out. It's actually pretty cool and could've had some of the potential Civ Rev has if more people played it. At the beginning there were a decent amount of people playing it, but it quickly wore off. I stopped playing it because I couldn't ever get any decent competition online on a regular basis.

When I was playing it tho, I had some team games that were super fun and knock out fights. Like 2hr games.. Has a ton of potential, but not enough support.

online connections are horrendous, constant disconnect, I got excited for this game, bought it at release, played the campaign (which is quite hard) until I got familiar with controls, then thought I was ready for MP, but kept disconnecting. I was running wire connections at 15MB+ so no prob there, the online coding for PS3 was horrible and they never released a patch. Sold after a few weeks. :/

[JackHall2003]

Catherine is probably the most frustrating puzzle game I have ever played. Just ask Thrasher. It's a pretty cool concept though.

This is now under £15 in UK. Might give it a go.

[ITZ DENI3D]

I just domed somebody with less than 1/10 of a second to act in Halo 3 flying 50 miles an hour. My hand eye coordination is off the hook!