H2H Round Robin Tournament - 2011 Champions Group

[MorteEterna]

I got my games with Morte. I had SIGNIFICANTLY better luck than I did against Scottie.

My Germans to his Egyptians. I spawned at the south pole and walked north a little bit. I hit a naming tile and settled by a friendly hut (because I liked the view better) thinking I could rush a warrior but duh I had only 10 gold so I had to hammer for two turns. Minor mistake because I met Morte on a hill between us but his guy was wounded so I took the hill and that gave me the barb beside it. Meanwhile my second warrior popped a barb and was shown the Seven Cities. I got a quick galley out to get the 200 gold and I scouted Morte. I camped several of his tiles, though he managed to hang onto a few. He had a GL pretty fast from culture and had a lot of archers. I upgraded about five warrior armies, but I had very bad luck and only succeeded in promoting his archers and giving him a GG. Heh. But I kind of had him pinned and figured I could just go for Feudalism. I stole his GL so I could keep making elite units. I had a legion army out waiting for England to settle a city so I could hopefully get Monarchy. But then England flipped Morte's 100 gold city. A very rare sight to be sure. They already had a GA settled and somehow got another one. Morte didn't feel he could continue with just his capital and most of his tiles camped.

I went for the Greeks in the next game, having used most of my better choices already. Morte picked Russia. I walked my settler moving into despotism and hit the end of the peninsula. It seemed like a good place to settle, though I was kind of regretting having to face a turn of anarchy later on without the benefit of an AI cap. But my first barb gave me a trireme and I found empty Madrid, so it was worth it after all. I did get Navigation and figured the game was pretty well in the bag. I teched to catapults and put both a library and barracks in Athens (conveniently settled on a whale). Morte put an archer army on one of my forests and my first catapult army managed to lose 25 to 12!!! So that set me back a little, but not a lot. I was expanding to whale cities at the same time and had a city lead, tech lead and (soon enough) superior military force again. My start was just too good. Morte took a stab at trying to galley-drop one of my islands (5 pop city on two whales), but I had a galleon in the vicinity and sunk him after which he gave up.

In retrospect, since I had Navigation, staying in ancient and going for legions might have been a better call, but given the start I had, I certainly had the luxury of choosing an imperfect strategy.

First game I didn't ever get 100 gold, I built the settler. However, I don't know what I could have done without my second city. I wasn't feeling bad before I lost that one.

In second game, my last hope was the units in my galley plus a caravan. I had a free knight, so I hoped I could take your 2 cities and do something. Caravan means at least 50 gold and I could sell some techs to chinese to get other gold. I also had a great humanitarian, but without that I couldn't do anything, so I quit.

[elthrasher]

First game I didn't ever get 100 gold, I built the settler. However, I don't know what I could have done without my second city. I wasn't feeling bad before I lost that one.

In second game, my last hope was the units in my galley plus a caravan. I had a free knight, so I hoped I could take your 2 cities and do something. Caravan means at least 50 gold and I could sell some techs to chinese to get other gold. I also had a great humanitarian, but without that I couldn't do anything, so I quit.

My getting seven cities in both games was obviously a big boost. All my games in this tournament so far kind of highlight a weakness in CivRev - there is a lot of luck involved. The game I lost to Mawpawk was possibly winnable, but I would have had to play my best game ever while he basically just had to not screw up too badly. My games against Scottie were nearly impossible to win (well, the 2nd one had some options, but losing two 1-1 battles in a row was unlucky). Now these games were really mine to lose and I didn't play my best and still had many avenues to victory.

The only solution to this is to have lots of tournaments so everybody has a chance to be both good and lucky.

[ScottieX]

Had a game against Mawpawk

my japanese beat his Indians.

I picked Pawk would play one of his good civs this round and I decided I'd risk the japanese and try to squeeze out a win rather than going right for the kill with Germans etc.

I started out near the south pole and settled by a hut and got 40g or so. I fluffed this a bit by trying to find a better spot to settle and finding nothing so I had to back track and that cost me a turn or two. I figured my start was a bit slow as I didn't have much in the way of directions to explore except for north. I went north and fond the Zulu waiting, since this now had all my warriors heading that way I put them together and took the Zulu cap (elbreacher style).

after this i met mawpawks Indians to the north (uh-oh) and the Chinese to the far west.

Then I was shown KT, far to the east. So i disbanded a couple of useless warriors (or something) to get my 100g and settled it down near the KT so i could get the galleon out. By this time i had met the Chinese but i didn't have much spare gold for the HA, so mawpawk took Beijing and I wasn't there to kill him for it (well i had a warrior but he had a HA)...

But his HA continued in my direction and met my choak city with archer on a hill scouting the area.
I wandered my KT into that city and waited for him. Sure enough he moved in and I killed his HA.

So I put a archer and a WA on his trees for his capital and just camped.

After that I moved the KA close to his city but decided It was more important to close off the map to him, so instead of attacking Beijing I explored around to the south west, finding the Mongolian AI which I then killed with the KT, taking two cities. I then built quite a few archers there and ensured there was nothing for mawpawk to the south east.

Now while I had map control I didn't like my chances of rolling fundy Indians. So my aim was to pick up some nice bonuses then to soften him up a bit and finally kill him with some fundy knights with cruiser support.

I got a GS as my GP and a GB for monarchy first to bonus. I therefore decided to play it safe and GB the great wall (the idea being to shut down any faint hopes he might have left of a hail mary) My plan was to tech invention and religion (at about 100 beakers or so per turn) then GS steam and then roll the cities with an overwhelming force.

Because it was still a few turns away - to start off I landed some horses archers and my KT by him. but I didn't want to blow my attack yet - so i set about positioning my units up near a settler i saw which i figured I could grab for free, together with a spy to take out his barracks or something similar and that I could take a city or two and force defense in every city. Again just trying to play everything ultra safe.

At this stage mawpawk had to go with the rugby match approaching he wanted to stay to play it out but its our national duty to watch the rugby !
(I also can't imagine what he could have done to win it).

BTW as I type now NZ is winning

[ScottieX]

REM / Glen,
you guys need to get a game or two in. We have been looking for you!

[Mawpawk]

halftime! yrd gd gamr dcottie i really couldnt do much 1nce the GW was there you had way more cities

[ScottieX]

Almost caught up with Rem but he was ready to play as I was neding to go, I imagine scheduling this could be difficult outside weekends - but at least we got close to having a game

[JackHall2003]

All my games in this tournament so far kind of highlight a weakness in CivRev - there is a lot of luck involved. The game I lost to Mawpawk was possibly winnable, but I would have had to play my best game ever while he basically just had to not screw up too badly. My games against Scottie were nearly impossible to win (well, the 2nd one had some options, but losing two 1-1 battles in a row was unlucky). Now these games were really mine to lose and I didn't play my best and still had many avenues to victory.

The only solution to this is to have lots of tournaments so everybody has a chance to be both good and lucky.

Yeah, a lot of games are decided by the map. You solution is spot on, that way the luck evens out and the good play becomes a factor in the average starts. I think the six names that made it to the final are testament to this.

BTW, I think I've caught all the updates, but let me know if otherwise.

[REM018]

I think these are our time zones right?

Morte +1
Scottie +12
'Pawk +12
Glen -6
Rem -5
Thrash -5

which means it should be really easy for me to find mawpawk........ and yet I got nothing.. heh

for most of us is it correct to say we would find it easiest on evenings after 6... preferably after 8 till late (at least on friday/sat) ?

I am in the same timezone as Morte. +1 (Germany)

[glenneyre]

I took a beating in the first matchup with Mawpawk.

His germans, my Russians.

I started on an large island with 2 barb huts. Got 50g from my first one and thought I might have a chance to get my 100g and then settler out. Instead, the second one gave me Pottery and I had to work gold for a long time to get my 100g. By the time I got it, he had taken out 2 others and gotten a wonder. I submitted.

[JackHall2003]

I took a beating in the first matchup with Mawpawk.

His germans, my Russians.

Whoa there, Germans?, You sure?

You just may get a reprieve there glenn

[glenneyre]

I very well could be mistaken about who he was. I never ran into him that game, and we played a game for fun first - in which he may have been the Germans.

He can clarify who he was.

Although he could have been anyone and destroyed me that game.

[ScottieX]

Good work pawk - unless you went germans..
too bad glen.

[MorteEterna]

Ok, I think I can't win the tournament anymore. I lost to REM018, my mongols against japanese. It froze at one point, I think I could win but gave him the game, since I don't know.

[elthrasher]

Ok, I think I can't win the tournament anymore. I lost to REM018, my mongols against japanese. It froze at one point, I think I could win but gave him the game, since I don't know.

You can't keep losing and make it to the top two, but getting to a shootout for 2nd place with a 6-4 record is very possible.

[Mawpawk]

I very well could be mistaken about who he was. I never ran into him that game, and we played a game for fun first - in which he may have been the Germans.

He can clarify who he was.

Although he could have been anyone and destroyed me that game.

i was romans for that tourney match, settled in place and found loads of gold and a.i to use and abuse think i had about 8 cities by the time you unluckily hit yor 100 gold mark, map luck wins again.

thrashers right morte its early days and 2nd spot will be available until all matches are completed methinks

[ScottieX]

nevermind me ...

[REM018]

Ok, I think I can't win the tournament anymore. I lost to REM018, my mongols against japanese. It froze at one point, I think I could win but gave him the game, since I don't know.

I would normally offer a rematch, but I think in this case there was nothing you could have done. You had 4 cities vs. 10 of mine and I had Karakorum (w/ Colossus) boxed in and all your sea tiles covered and I had Rome boxed in too. You probably got to cats before I managed to block ur sea tiles, but I had cats too and just started going for invention/cruisers with one scientist saved for industrialization.

You would have had a chance if I had not gotten the GA for flipping the annoying city between me and Rome. but that pretty much tilted the whole thing in my favor.

We can do a rematch, since it froze and you probably could have taken one or two cities if you had managed to attack in unexpected territory, but I do not think you would have managed a comeback.

Problem with games between you and me is that so far you always managed to pull out a win even if I had the advantage :-/ I would hate to win my first game against you like that, but I really don't think there was any chance for you.

But of course, if you feel like calling it is unjustified, then we should probably do a rematch.

Btw: The Oracle really sucked for me this game (I galley dropped Thebes from him). It would not give me a single even or close battle for many turns in a row. Unbelievable! 1.5 vs. 1.5, 6 vs. 7.5, 6. vs. 6 twice in a row (I sent in 2 spies to disrupt defenses, did not change anything). Later 6 vs. 7. I was pretty much stuck with my stupid non-vet HA for an eternity until it finally got a 6 vs. 7.5 in. And then it would not give me the ensuing 6 vs. 5 with my other HA. Frustrating!

[JackHall2003]

Mawpawk, thanks for clarifying.

REM - looks like Morte agreed further up that he conceded this one, so I've recorded as such.

[REM018]

I can most certainly live with that. Just wanted to give some more details on the game, so that people can form an opinion of whether they see an issue with not replaying this one. (of course that opinion is based on my version of the story ;-) )

[glenneyre]

My schedule has freed up, so it will be much easier if anyone wants to get some games in.

Here are some times I can be on: (All times Eastern Standard)

Any early morning this week: 5-7am
Any night this week: 6-10pm
Mostly any time this weekend 7am - 11pm

If you reply to this thread a good time you can be on, I will set it up so I am on that time as well.

[elthrasher]

I'll look for you tonight. Maybe 9pm? I'm also on eastern time.

[glenneyre]

Thrasher -

Perfect. See you on then. I will quit any other game I am playing. Just send me an invite when you get on.

[REM018]

My schedule the next couple of days is going to be tough. Maybe Saturday night my time works (so after 5 pm EST). Thur/Fri if I have time then only from 1 pm - 6 pm EST. Mon/Tues/Wed next week are definitely a no-go for me. After that things should be better.

[ScottieX]

my russians beat gleneyre's mongols

I built some warriors and explored, got a galley and found SoC for a GS and a GB
I then put up some horses.
I found 2 ai and threatened them for 50 g as they were quite far (aztec and USA) meanwhile glen got the romans with his mongols and seemed to meet the chinese. But it seems while he was in the midst of expanding my Horse met his warrior. I quickly built 3 more and my first horse cleared out his forward warriors while hte 3 others followed behind.

I teched masonary and had the trigger finger ready for poping Great wall but in the end it wasnt reqired, his empire was unprepared to defend against the HA and he called it. (USA also hd a GB tht i knew i could steal later so no shortage of GB)

rome was 1 pop etc so if i had got to him later I might have had trouble with many cities.


my greeks beat gleneyre's english
he started off on an island - I got 7cog and was doing pretty well even without that - it was going to be pretty tough for him to come back from that so he called it

[JackHall2003]

Wow, Scottie. A 5-0 start and decent civs left. Good going.

Standings updated.

[elthrasher]

my russians beat gleneyre's mongols

I built some warriors and explored, got a galley and found SoC for a GS and a GB
I then put up some horses.
I found 2 ai and threatened them for 50 g as they were quite far (aztec and USA) meanwhile glen got the romans with his mongols and seemed to meet the chinese.

So you played a game with six civs in it? I think not.

[ScottieX]

So you played a game with six civs in it? I think not.

ok maybe chinese didnt exist I guess i just thought the name of his mongol city looked chinese... hmm yeah thats what i get for writing my write ups late at night I thought it was pretty impressive that the AI had expanded that close to him before he took their city... apparently they didnt...

[Mawpawk]

english vs gleneyres indians

i move 1 turn and settle on 1 dye 1 tree build the warrior and tech HB glen is rather close and i manage to make a vet horse army kinda quickly, i also tech BW as im playing it safe,from my point of view glen looks to be on a hill so i build a galley to ship my HA across sum water to find more easier prey except b4 that happens our galleys meet glen attacks but my boat wins ,glen concedes.

hope you noticed i used my better civs for you glen as i was taking no chances!gd luck on ya next games fella

[ScottieX]

yeah everyone who makes it to the champions tournament is dangerous.

But mawpawks Romans and english .. that's a tough combination.
Sounds like pawk might have been under some pressure if the galley had won though.

Good luck in your other games - kick some ass

[elthrasher]

I played French against REM018's Indians. The world seemed to be a fatter southern continent connected to a smaller northern one by a land strip with a single forest on it. We met (me coming from the south, he from the north) on that land strip. I had gold, REM didn't. He fled north and I pursued him with two warriors. He settled in a balanced spot (possibly his start?) and I put my warriors on his trees, since he hammered up a defender before I got to him. That left me just 1 gold. Maybe using those two guys to go out and pick up gold would have been smarter, but I liked having my enemy pinned down, especially with me having one tree. I researched HBR and hammered out the first horse - took 7 turns, but REM of course had to build warriors with city workers, so I'm not complaining. I met Rome and sold them my techs for 40 gold, cracked a barb and soon conquered my new-found friend. I got Bronze Working, not CoL, but I think I preferred that. Meanwhile REM got a warrior army to clear off his trees - but I think the damage was done, especially since my horse army soon found Tripoli. The Arabs hadn't met anybody yet so they just had two warriors and I had Blitz. Got the good tech that time. I'll take Bronze Working + Religion over CoL any day.

I expanded some and built some legions. I knew REM had got the Knights Templar so I figured he'd come my way and try to turn things around. He managed to take Rome with me being slow on the buttons, but I wasn't too worried. After all, he didn't even have Fundamentalism yet, but I did. I teched up to Navigation and pushed some legions at him. His cities didn't have defenses and at the same time I started killing his stuff at Rome, so he gave in. Not relevant, but I got the Ark in there somewhere as well and had 8 cities by this point in the game, most of them were pretty large due to having gotten two Humanitarians as well as Irrigation. Paris was an impressive 8 pop at the end. Beat that!

[JackHall2003]

Moving along nicely in here. Mawpawk, congrats on your 5th win, the boys from my adopted country setting the pace. thrasher keeping the pressure on though.

[ScottieX]

Current civ rankings and initials of players still to use civs

French (WWWW) G, M
Japan (WWWWL) G
Egypt (WWWLL) R
Germany (WWWLL) ME
England (WWWL) E, R
Mongolia (WWLL) E, R
Greece (WLLL) E, G
Rome (WLLL) G, ME
India (WLLL) ME, S
Russia (WLLLLL)

[elthrasher]

What? India with no wins? Well, I'll fix that. I played India against REM018's Russians. I spawned with rubber by my capital and decided to settle in place. I think this was a good call because I worked that rubber all game except one turn when REM had a militia on it.

Anyway, he moved and walked in on Athens, getting Democracy. I found Beijing just to the north. I was a bit concerned that REM would hit me really fast, but I went after Beijing anyway (not wanting to risk a non-vet horse army against pikes) and took it easily, getting Writing. I found Paris to the far east but before I could get there, the culture got really big. REM declared war. I figured he was just trying to make Napoleon build some archers, but he actually took the city. Pity I wasn't there with my two horse armies when it fell. But oh well. I peeled some settlers out of Beijing and put them on dye while I worked on Iron Working. Then I grabbed Pottery to get to medieval.

REM and I had a little standoff at one point. He was in Democracy but had a fortified pike army. I had units that might have beat it if I were lucky, but it didn't seem worth it. I built a bunch of legions and a catapult army out of rubber, got a GS and used it for Navigation. Soon I had a pile of armies knocking at REM's door. He didn't have enough units to stop me and gave up after I'd taken a few cities. I think REM had gotten a GB from Confucius and was planning to use it for the Great Wall, but it was probably too far into the game with too many cities having changed hands for that to work.

To answer your question, REM, I kept up in tech by virtue of those early dye cities. As India, I get 4 beakers from dye in medieval. I had so many units because I kept my capital working that rubber and a plain forest tile for the entire game. I pretty much always do this now, if I'm able. I used Beijing for settler production, used my capital for units only (after a barracks) and used my 100g city mostly for units but also for one or two settlers. At the point you quit, I was just hitting industrial and would have had three settlers ready to hit the islands. I never used Republic at all.

[REM018]

Well, as Thrasher wrote already, I got some really bad beatings. Game one I could not do much, since when our settlers met, he was out of moves, but I did not have gold - otherwise this would have been a quick one ... Blocking my trees was key and I was suprised that u came after me with 2 warriors. Not much I could do in that game. Choked off and Mongols had an archer army up when I got there in 1800 BC or so.

Game 2 I thought I had a good start, but then after I met 2 of your warriors you took Beijing and had 100g already. So much for my good start ... I knew you were making plenty armies, but I just did not have resources with Athens and Moscow sharing 3 trees. When I was about to build a spy for ur barracks, you came over with 2 horse armies in fundy and I had to reallocate my spy resources. Destroying those barracks could have bought me some time to expand and tech to Math myself and get in a decent position to defend.

GG - I yet have to win a game against you and by the look of the few games we played, I will need a very lopsided start in my favor :-\

[ScottieX]

Rem018/Morte,
what times are you guys likely to be on? - I'll see if I can be available for those times over the rest of the week / in the weekend.

[REM018]

Can't say for sure this week. But the weekend is probably better for me. Don't know yet what I will be doing.

[MorteEterna]

Rem018/Morte,
what times are you guys likely to be on? - I'll see if I can be available for those times over the rest of the week / in the weekend.

In my afternoon, from 14:00 to 16:30 I should be on, almost every day. I don't know what time it is on NZ. On other days, I don't know, but maybe it could be easier

[ScottieX]

In my afternoon, from 14:00 to 16:30 I should be on, almost every day. I don't know what time it is on NZ. On other days, I don't know, but maybe it could be easier

early in the morning - But I can work somthing out.
Thanks for the response guys will try to getonline to get at least 1 each in over the next couple of days.

[ScottieX]

morte's english beat my germans

sadly I coudnt catch a break. Only good thing was when he took the japanese and I took it back off him becase I was waiting on the other side.
first setack ws the matchup itself.. england is a good anti german choice. next was the ai getting far too lucky. Next was his being far away with sea between us next was me clearly beeing too sleepy to play and getting my arse kicked by the AI that had got lucky earlier on.

heh anyway morte played to englands strengths and used the archers and naval support to shut me down and a GA flip from his culture. He also built a library

time to sleep now...

[elthrasher]

morte's english beat my germans

Yay! Sorry, that's not polite.

Ah well...hurrah!