Merchants usefulness

[scurvy]

Is there ever a time when its useful to have your citizens work as merchants?

i cant really see it, its rare that any other resources (food, hammers, science and culture) is below 100g per 100.

unlike the science game and culture game that are enhanced by their science and culture workers, the caravan game is only effected by total gold in reserve. so even a player who wanted to play the market and caravan game would still be better off producing and selling food/hammers as it always seems be 300-600 g per 100g

did Firaxis over look this citizen job?
do you use them?

[robin74]

Is there ever a time when its useful to have your citizens work as merchants?

Yes, to win the most productive merchant / most gold harvested contest.

[scurvy]

haha, yeah there is that, but that shouldn't be the only time.

i really think the devs need to rework merchants and the caravan game into something more useful and on par with the other citizen jobs.

currently even in era's with huge gold bonuses its hardly even worth using merchants.

come to think of it.. i'ld like to see something like a production bonus for the longer a citizen works the same job or something. that would be good and it would help entice people to specialize. as i think was originally intended by the devs but not so well implemented.

[manopolus]

Here's the thing: Every other resource has another use (or multiple uses) in the game. If you sell these resources, you are giving up the ability to use them for their intended purpose. They are almost always better used than sold. Gold, however, is much more versatile. It can always be accumulated and used as needed. How many people out there actually SELL their production/growth/science reserves? Not many, because it's worth more to them than anything they can buy with the gold it will get them. That is why the exchange rate is always higher than gold... because people buy, but rarely sell.

The weird exception here is culture. A lot of shortsighted people will sell culture for less than 100 gold... I suppose because it takes a long time to get culture high enough to get a great person. Oddly enough, if you watch the exchange rates, you can often buy the culture (admittedly, over time) to get a great person for less than you can buy one, in most games.

I would say that the stock markets actually make it quite worth it to have merchants, personally. The more gold you have, the more you can accumulate through the stocks, which makes it easier to get enough to actually matter. The problem, in my opinion, is that a single purchase (never mind mass purchases) changes the market too quickly to be able to use the gold in an effective manner. If you need a lot of a certain type of military unit fast, for instance, forget it -- it's not worth it by the 5th purchase or so, at which point you COULD purchase production and make them... but still, the price rises too quickly there, too. Therefore, the best way to use this gold is slowly, giving the market enough time to give you a bargain. Wait until the unbalanced production only player sells off his production before buying, etc. Who cares if you don't need it right now? You will at some point.

I'll admit that the economy of civworld can definitely be improved, but I also think that merchants do have their uses even under current conditions.

[robin74]

I'll admit that the economy of civworld can definitely be improved, but I also think that merchants do have their uses even under current conditions.

No they don't. You argument is about how gold is useful, not about usefulness of merchants. These are two completely different things. You make much less gold by having merchants and harvesting it than you would if you switched these citizens to produce anything else and selling it in the market.

[manopolus]

No they don't. You argument is about how gold is useful, not about usefulness of merchants. These are two completely different things. You make much less gold by having merchants and harvesting it than you would if you switched these citizens to produce anything else and selling it in the market.

Yes, but if people actually DID that, the market wouldn't be what it is. Gold would actually be worth more than the other resources if that was the case... like it often is with culture towards the beginning of the game -- most likely because museums are available way before banks are, among other things. At least with a merchant harvesting, you know it will be gold, not "excess" production (which is generally a myth, in any case, with all the wars going on). Selling growth or science is patently ridiculous if you want to advance in the game, so what's left? Oh yes, culture, which is quite often worth less than gold until the second page of science is started, or thereabouts.

I understand the concept, but I really don't think selling off another resource is a good way to get gold. Apparently, virtually no one else thinks so either, or the market would be decidedly different. I'd say most players planning on selling off this or that to get gold tend to go through the game continually broke, because using the other resources for its intended purpose is almost always better than selling it. Perhaps the real problem here is that there is little use for gold in the game beyond buying other resources, and buying things that you can get at a more constant rate with other resources (again, with the exception of culture, since it takes more to get a great person each time -- well, and growth too, come to think of it, but you can't buy population). Perhaps if you used substantially more production each time that you made a phalanx (like you do when buying them), it would be different (and no, I'm not suggesting the game be changed this way). Yes, merchants aren't the most useful creatures out there, but knowing that there's no way in hell I'm going to sell another resource for gold unless the exchange rate is even more extreme than it usually is... I generally have at least one, just so I know I'm getting more gold than I would if I only played the caravan game to get it.

[robin74]

I'd say most players planning on selling off this or that to get gold tend to go through the game continually broke

Really? I keep about 10k of cash at the beginning of the game, going up to about 100-200k later on, depending on the prices of great people. I never go broke, and I make all my money by playing the market.

[manopolus]

Really? I keep about 10k of cash at the beginning of the game, going up to about 100-200k later on, depending on the prices of great people. I never go broke, and I make all my money by playing the market.

LOL, what do you do? Go all production and refuse to help with any wars?

[AngleWyrm]

I understand the concept, but I really don't think selling off another resource is a good way to get gold. ... I generally have at least one [merchant], just so I know I'm getting more gold than I would if I only played the caravan game to get it.

Making 100 hammers will get you 300-500 gold. Making 100 gold will get you 100 gold.
That "at least one guy" should not be harvesting gold, he should be harvesting hammers or food.

[robin74]

LOL, what do you do? Go all production and refuse to help with any wars?

I do various things. Food and production first, science later. And I always extensively help with wars.
Playing the market has nothing to do with what you produce. You use the changes in prices, you trade commodities and great people mostly. Making dozens of thousands in gold, independent of how your city looks, is pretty easy later in the game.