Wiki now open for public editing

[2K Greg]

Hey everyone!

I wanted to let you all know that we have opened up the CivWorld wiki so that anyone can edit it, rather than only the devs.

Up until now, the wiki has served as the manual to the game. Now we’d like to expand the scope of the wiki to allow you to use it for (nearly!) anything your heart desires. It would be a great place to post and organize strategies, analysis of the effectiveness of different wonders/units, or a bunch of other things! This can be as much or as little as you guys want it to be, because it’s yours.

A few key pages will remain protected from editing by the public. If you need a change made to one of these pages, simply shoot me a private message here and I’ll take a look!

http://wiki.2kgames.com/civworld

[Ironsmack]

D'oh! Nice one.

[Mega-Dolphin]

Prepare for haters to vandalize the wiki. I hope you guys still have moderators on it.

[SpartonDesign]

And the first thing I did? Point out how much Tanks suck.

We should definitely be throwing strategy sections onto military units and techs. There are a lot of non-obvious aspects that would be useful to know, like not upgrading at certain points due to military units losing offensive or defensive capabilities.

Oh, and thanks for having you guys open the Wiki, Greg!

[Glinda]

Cunning planning just as everyone goes back to work/school. I would have spent time on this over summer, but not now.

[Xinhuan]

I'll see what I can contribute later, if people haven't already contributed a lot by then to the wiki.

[KainS]

And the first thing I did? Point out how much Tanks suck.

We should definitely be throwing strategy sections onto military units and techs. There are a lot of non-obvious aspects that would be useful to know, like not upgrading at certain points due to military units losing offensive or defensive capabilities.

Oh, and thanks for having you guys open the Wiki, Greg!

Agreed, we were pouring everything into gunpowder for better defensive units, just to lose all our ranged defenders in the middle of a defensive battle. Melee units should stay melee, ranged should stay ranged, mobile should stay mobile.

[spacechampion]

Horse-archers do stay ranged with gunpowder (but they upgrade to tanks with combustion), and they are immune to Call to Arms / Secret Weapon.

[KainS]

Horse-archers do stay ranged with gunpowder (but they upgrade to tanks with combustion), and they are immune to Call to Arms / Secret Weapon.

True, but longbowmen have better defense.

[robin74]

True, but longbowmen have better defense.

I'm not quite sure what it is you're complaining about.
Your longbows (defense 3) upgraded to riflemen (defense 5) at a 3:2 ratio. For each 3 longbows (total defense of 9) you're getting 2 riflemen (total defense of 10). So your defense actually went up.
There are various issues with the way upgrades work (including gunpowder itself), but that's not one of them.

[Xinhuan]

Riflemen is melee units. Longbows are ranged units. He is complaining about the lack of ranged units after upgrading, which may cost them a bombardment bonus if nobody is online during the battle itself to insert a stack of 1.

[meagain]

Cunning planning just as everyone goes back to work/school. I would have spent time on this over summer, but not now.

There are plenty of people from all over the world playing so can we stop thinking it has to be centered around your part. Perhaps for the holidays there were an extra people from 2k away on holidays so they didn't get around to this which is not really a huge priority I would imagine. A lot of the stuff people are talking about doing could have been done anytime with a link posted in the forums here. i have seen that happen in many other games.

It would be cunning planning if they said they were only going to have it open for one month!

[KainS]

Riflemen is melee units. Longbows are ranged units. He is complaining about the lack of ranged units after upgrading, which may cost them a bombardment bonus if nobody is online during the battle itself to insert a stack of 1.

That's exactly my point. We went from having a strong ranged advantage to no ranged, and our total power actually dropped (less total units receiving the bonus from the samurai castle wonder) mid-battle. Had to scramble to toss in a few catapults and build what mounted archers we could. With only a few of us on, it was rough, but we did inflict decent casualties on them before we lost, considering the amount of troops they had compared to us.

[robin74]

He is complaining about the lack of ranged units after upgrading, which may cost them a bombardment bonus if nobody is online during the battle itself to insert a stack of 1.

Come on, gunpowder doesn't get discovered out of the blue. If you're concerned it's going to be discovered before the battle, put a catapult instead of longbows in the slot.

[robin74]

We went from having a strong ranged advantage

There is no such thing as ranged advantage. As long as you have a single ranged unit and deny the other side the bonus, the only thing that matters is total strength.

our total power actually dropped (less total units receiving the bonus from the samurai castle wonder)

How?
3 longbows upgrade to 2 riflemen. That's a defense of 3x(3+1)=12 before the upgrade changed to 2x(5+1)=12 after the upgrade.
Your defense might go down due to weather change or it could go down because riflemen get a bonus in fog, so if you had some other weather you lost some of the weather bonus. But if it did, that's not because your longbows upgraded - they get a bonus in fog, too.

[KainS]

There is no such thing as ranged advantage. As long as you have a single ranged unit and deny the other side the bonus, the only thing that matters is total strength.


How?
3 longbows upgrade to 2 riflemen. That's a defense of 3x(3+1)=12 before the upgrade changed to 2x(5+1)=12 after the upgrade.
Your defense might go down due to weather change or it could go down because riflemen get a bonus in fog, so if you had some other weather you lost some of the weather bonus. But if it did, that's not because your longbows upgraded - they get a bonus in fog, too.

I don't remember the details exactly now, but we went from 8100 to 6600 power the instant the tech was researched, and weather wasn't a factor, as it was snowing at the time.

[KainS]

Come on, gunpowder doesn't get discovered out of the blue. If you're concerned it's going to be discovered before the battle, put a catapult instead of longbows in the slot.

We were rushing to get gunpowder, even after the battle started since we were close, just didn't know at the time it changed our ranged units to melee.

[Valdoe]

I like your gesture but honestly do you thing the top players are going to share secrets how they got to the top.

Devs should be thinking how to rank players and set up games that allow the more experience plays to play with each other without newbies hindering a great game

[Glinda]

I dunno, I took the trouble to write a FAQ. There's the issue of the fact that 90% of people don't bother to RTFM, from my perspective.

[ahtrap]

I think the top players would be glad to share their secrets...if any time spent at all on these forums is any indication. There are links to FAQs like Robyn, suggestions of other places to go to for information, etc. And we keep telling people they have to CHAT in game to be effective (well, as much as the horribly and repeatedly broken chat 'feature' might allow), but...

All the 'secrets' of playing the game well, about playing the markets, about never building any merchants, about how to make workers happy, they've been discussed many times over. If people fail to put in any effort, that's not the fault of the so called top players.

[Valdoe]

I like your gesture but honestly do you thing the top players are going to share secrets how they got to the top.

Devs should be thinking how to rank players and set up games that allow the more experience plays to play with each other without newbies hindering a great game

[meagain]

And the first thing I did? Point out how much Tanks suck.

Any chance you can explain what you mean by the whole 0.03 and 0.032 thing. That is not a big difference mathamatically but could be big difference depending on how measurement is done. eg if scale of zero to one then bigger difference.

[meagain]

I think the top players would be glad to share their secrets...if any time spent at all on these forums is any indication. There are links to FAQs like Robyn, suggestions of other places to go to for information, etc. And we keep telling people they have to CHAT in game to be effective (well, as much as the horribly and repeatedly broken chat 'feature' might allow), but...

All the 'secrets' of playing the game well, about playing the markets, about never building any merchants, about how to make workers happy, they've been discussed many times over. If people fail to put in any effort, that's not the fault of the so called top players.

I wouldlove to find some of these experienced players who are happy to give advice. I haven't seen it once and I am active in chat. I have looked at some info but it is not always easy to locate info your after on these forums.



Off topic what problems are people having with chat? Is it broken in some games or just poorly designed? I have never had problems but do think it could function better.

[SpartonDesign]

Any chance you can explain what you mean by the whole 0.03 and 0.032 thing. That is not a big difference mathamatically but could be big difference depending on how measurement is done. eg if scale of zero to one then bigger difference.

It's definitely doesn't seem as big mathematically, yes. However, when you start getting to bigger numbers of units, you can more easily see the affect it has.

With 10,000 production...

50 tanks = 300 power, OR
80 Knights = 320 power

Now if you have Leonardo's Workshop...

Tanks: 300 power + 50 = 350
Knights: 320 + 80 = 400

So a decent amount more power without the attack wonder, but an approximately 14% greater power with the Workshop.

It's just not wise if the battle has any chance of being close. Mobile units can be a good thing to stock up on if your opponents have a tendency to pop Call to Arms, as unlike the other good attacking units around that point of the game (Legions, Man-At-Arms, Catapults, Cannons), Knights won't get hit by the halving effect. Also, it's not common that someone has a sizable Mobile defensive force, so it's even less likely the Knights will get hit by enemy attacks.

[AngleWyrm]

We can improve the unit pages by adding stats to the images.

Just did this for Catapults

Here's the wiki code:
[[Image:Catapult_card.jpg|frame|left|Attack: 5<br />Defend: 1<br />Hammers: 125]]

All I had to do was add "frame|" at the beginning, right after the picture name, and then "|" and the caption at the end. Note the use of <br /> to get to the next line.

[meagain]

We can improve the unit pages by adding stats to the images.

Just did this for Catapults

Here's the wiki code:
[[Image:Catapult_card.jpg|frame|left|Attack: 5<br />Defend: 1<br />Hammers: 125]]

All I had to do was add "frame|" at the beginning, right after the picture name, and then "|" and the caption at the end. Note the use of <br /> to get to the next line.

This is certainly something useful imo. thanks for that.

[meagain]

It's definitely doesn't seem as big mathematically, yes. However, when you start getting to bigger numbers of units, you can more easily see the affect it has.

That is more helpful. However I get no idea of that from reading what has been added to the wiki. Perhapos you could add part of that strategy in for others especially keeping mobile units

[SpartonDesign]

Yeah, I was thinking that, but I'm not an overly-avid Wiki user, so I don't always know the best way to format/present info. I'll keep it in mind; I may return to the page and do some theorycraft.

[AngleWyrm]

Any chance you can explain what you mean by the whole 0.03 and 0.032 thing. That is not a big difference mathamatically but could be big difference depending on how measurement is done. eg if scale of zero to one then bigger difference.

I've since changed this around on the wiki, so that it makes more sense. The fractions of attack/hammer were a bit confusing, so I flipped it over to be hammers/attack point. This shows as full numbers, and makes the cost more clear.

For instance, the Knight has an investment cost of 125 hammers / 4 attack = 31.25 hammers/attack point. But the upgraded tank has a cost of 200 hammers / 6 attack = 33.33 hammers/attack. It costs somewhat more hammers to produce the same attack when buying tanks.

How much more? 6 knights produce 24 attack and cost 750, while 4 tanks produce that same 24 attack but cost 800.

[random user]

I know you already did all that work so I'm sorry this comment is so late, and it's probably not a big deal, but I'd express the cost as attacks per 50 hammers (since 50 hammers is the minimum cost of all units except for militia, which gets upgraded pretty quickly).

So man at arms would have a attack rating of 3 and a defense rating of 1, while a legion would have an attack rating of 2.67 and a defense rating of 1.

That makes it easier to compare units, as you can easily say a tank, which has an attack and defense rating of 1.5 is exactly half as efficient as a fighter which has attack and defense ratings of 3, and 1.5 is half of 3.

Edit: this also makes it easy to compare weather bonus, as you can just double the value.

[Ryan Smith]

considering the very idea of wicki is public editing its so nice of you to open that for us

[churd]

Hey 2kGames Community Managers,

When you opened the wiki up for public editing, did you also open up the upload section? I'm trying to insert images into the wiki and the site is rejecting the uploads. Specifically, I'm trying to insert images of the wonder requirements, such as these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6761787...th/6153980888/ . Please let me know if there's something you can do to help me with that.

[meagain]

Hey 2kGames Community Managers,

When you opened the wiki up for public editing, did you also open up the upload section? I'm trying to insert images into the wiki and the site is rejecting the uploads. Specifically, I'm trying to insert images of the wonder requirements, such as these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6761787...th/6153980888/ . Please let me know if there's something you can do to help me with that.

Are you able to explain another way what you are trying to do? Several of those wonder requirements change depending on size of civ and if it has been built before which I'm sure you know. So that leaves me a little confused as to what you are trying to point out.

[meagain]

I don't know how to edit wiki. It could be easy if I checked but I also don't know the answer to all my questions.
What I thought would be good to put in is the hammers requirement for each building just like has been done for military units. Is someone with the knowledge and know-how able to do that?

[churd]

Are you able to explain another way what you are trying to do? Several of those wonder requirements change depending on size of civ and if it has been built before which I'm sure you know. So that leaves me a little confused as to what you are trying to point out.

Yes... but if you have a picture of the wonder with all six great people required (the maximum), you can easily figure out what the requirement is for the wonder if five people were required: subtract the right-most person.

E.G. Since Shakespeare's Theater costs ABAABA when it costs 6 GPs, it costs ABAAB when it costs 5 GPs.

[MichaelZ]

It'd be nice to be able to post pictures to the wiki regardless of the reason. I'd like to post the Guide Pictures (the smaller versions of the Great Art Puzzles) alongside the artists and title of the work, but it's not allowed.

[AngleWyrm]

The wiki site is down, unable to connect.

[JenC]

there is no more wiki...

[mattyran]

The wiki should come with a disclaimer that says, "All information in this wiki could be nullified at the drop of a hat by the next game update when we decide that the game should play more like Horace Goes Skiing".