A colonization system for Civ5...

[Draskar]

[edited after post #9]

Hi from Italy!
What do you think about the possibility to found colonies in civ5?

Here's my suggestion:

You can use a Settler to found a Colony instead of a city, the Colony works like a full-allied city-state, which gives to you worked resources and a BONUS:

Military, culture or food (easy to implement for developers) OR
Add a new kind of CS-type: Colony, that brings to the owner a mixed bonus like x culture, x food to the capital, x gold, x science, x happyness (any linear combination of these)

Influence with the colony starts at a top level (like 100 influence) and begin to decrease like normal CS. You have to finance your colony like a CS (with golds, but also with workers and units if you want speed-up their build or defence power) to mantain the influence at a positive value, and YOU ARE THE ONLY that can influence this Colony CS.

There are 3 status values:

1) Loyal (influence 60 or more): The CS gives to you Resources & Bonus (similar to an allied CS)
2) Controlled (influence from 30 to 59 ): The CS gives to you resources & Small or No Bonus (similar to a friend CS)
3) Indipendent (influence under 30): The CS gives to you nothing.

When the Colony's influence go under 30, the CS declare indipendence and becomes a normal CS like others (CPU choices which of the 3 types), and other Civs can now "influence" or protect them.

Then:

1) If you like it, you become friend (influence 45, halfway from alliance)
2) If you don't like it, you are in war with the CS and influence goes to -200.
Then if you conquer the city, you can restore his colonial status, and your influence will be 45 (Controlled).

Why found colonies instead of cities?

1) Because are not your cities, they don't affect happyness or culture influence.
2) Becouse if you finance them, they gives you some kind of bonus every turn.
3) Becouse you don't have to found a city in a far and/or bad place only for get a resource you don't have.

What do you think?

[civvy]

Pretty cool idea! Another good strategic option if you want to bottle up an AI - stick a CS (Colony) at a choke point...

I like!

[Rycci]

I think it would be a great addition. I hate having the cost of social policies jacked up because I needed one more aluminum.

[acpraider6]

yes, interesting idea but there would have to be counter measures. It would have to be weaker than a normal city, and thus more prone to attacks. Also, like in civ4 with cottages, they should grow into larger and larger colonies and provide more and more money/resources. When you hit -5 happiness, colonies should begin to disband.

[Shiav]

yes, interesting idea but there would have to be counter measures. It would have to be weaker than a normal city, and thus more prone to attacks. Also, like in civ4 with cottages, they should grow into larger and larger colonies and provide more and more money/resources. When you hit -5 happiness, colonies should begin to disband.

disband? more like turn into their own civs and become superpowers within 100 turns

[builder680]

I liked colonies in Civ 3, I think it was. Good idea imo, just implementation would need to be good.

[istry555]

This is a much better and much nicer colonization system than has been in previous civ games. You're right, it works so perfectly with the city state mechanic. The only thing I don't like the idea of the colony randomly being cultural/military/or growth (because then you can be stuck with the type you don't want and can't destroy or re-roll the colony) nor do I think its a good idea to have civs always specifically make one type (would radically shift the civ balance). Maybe colonies should have their own unique bonus to give to civs (maybe even happiness? empire proud that it's expanding)

[Joketa]

I'm a big fan of the idea of reintroducing colonies. This idea seems like a good one. One problem I see is that if the colony is affected by the Patronage policy that affects minimum influence it would never reach zero. Perhaps you would always have to keep the influence at friends or above it to not declare independence. Of course, if colonies were affected by the Patronage policies at all, that would make that particular policy tree overpowered. Maybe they would have to be exempt from it.

[PhailRaptor]

Maybe they would have to be exempt from it.

This or a rework for Patronage, but that might be "fixing what isn't broken". *looks at seemingly random Commerce branch...*

[Draskar]

I'm glad to see you pleased about this idea
Let's discuss about it!

I edited the main post influenced by the #7 (istry555) post.

I think we have to propose the simpliest implementation possible, it's the only way for hoping in an implementation by Firaxis...

The problem of the patronance tree is real and i'm thinking about it...
i think a fast way to solve it is to make colony-CS immune to this policy (we are not making a mod, developers can easely do these kind of things with a patch).

I try to explain the colony system (im supposing that a CS is friend at 30 influence and allied at 60, i can't remember exact values):

1) Found a colony with a settler
2) You have a Colony-type CS allied with you (influence 100)
3) Colony CS(a new type) grant you x culture, x food to the capital, x gold, x science, x happyness (any linear combination of these, we have balance these values) and (LIKE OTHER CS) resources (luxury and strategic)
4) You loss Influence (like other CS) every turn and you have to make donations (units and gold) to raise it (like other CS).
5) You are the only that can interact with te CS (aka gains influence).
6) If you don't take care of you colony (gain influence) when they reach the friend level (59?). They declare indipendece, now you can decide to:
6.1) Legitimate the declaration: The CS becomes a Normal CS (CPU decides what kind of the 3 types), you are friend of the CS (influence 59) and you AND ALL OTHER CIVS can bribe the CS to become friends and allied as usual.
6.2) Blame the declaration: The CS becomes a Normal CS (CPU decides what kind of the 3 types), you are at WAR with the CS (influence -200?) and you (AFTER making peace) AND ALL OTHER CIVS can bribe the CS to become friends and allied as usual.

If you occupy the CS, you can select 4 options:
- Occupy (like any other enemy CITY)
- Puppet (like any other enemy CITY)
- Raze (like any other enemy CITY)
- Restore Colony

What do you think?

[tfordp]

Some good ideas.
Possible new unit: Colonial (or Colonist) a little more expensive than settler, can only be built in coastal cities, and cannot be used on the same continent.
When on other continent, cannot build city, only colony. Colony when built gets free up-to-date unit, like at start of game.
Tech tree position same as mother civ. Automatic ally of mother civ, as mentioned.
I like the idea of having new types of CS types for gold, science or happiness.

[Mega-Dolphin]

With the Restore Colony idea, it should not restore the colony to 100 influence since the remaining population will hold considerable anger against you for conquering them.

Also, I think independence should come at 29 happiness rather than 59, but at 59, the food/production/gold/culture/happiness bonuses will go away as the colony starts thinking about independence and will only give resources.

There should be no problems with the Patronage tree as even with an influence of 20, your colony will still be able to declare independence.

[Draskar]

Nice suggestion, you propose 3 states of colonialship:

1) Loyal: Resources & Bonus (similar to an allied CS)
2) Controlled: Resources & Small or No Bonus (similar to a friend CS)
3) Indipendent: nothing and war!

When you restore the colonialship status, the CS become Controlled right?

P.S. can someone write the exact numeric influence steps of CS? es.
-200 / 29 nothing
30 -59 friends
over 60 allies

[Mega-Dolphin]

Yes, those numbers are correct. Negative numbers have things like "Angry", but they don't affect that much to my knowledge.

A restored colony could either be controlled or loyal, but influence would be like 60, so you would just be hanging on to the colony by a thread. Basically I just want restored colonies to not be just like newly founded colonies in their loyalty to the "mother country".

[Draskar]

Ok, i totally agree with you
I'm changing the main post...

[Draskar]

Now, let's talk about multi-colonial situations...
If you found more then one colony what do you propose?

1) All cities act like a unique country (like CS that conquered a city), you receive n-times bonus and the resources of the whole area, but the influence go down at n-times speed. (n equals to number of cities).
2) All cities act likes different CS.
3) Other suggestions?

[MegaBearsFan]

I like the idea of adding a colonization mechanic. I've contemplated systems for this on my own.

My idea usually involved making any city whose cultural borders do not join with the rest of your empire and capital be considered a "colony". This way, they don't HAVE to be on another continent. If you require the colony to be on another landmass, then French colonies in Africa and East Asia would not be considered colonies because Europe, Africa, and Asia are all connected as one "continent" in context of Civ. If you are on the west coast of a large continent, you should still be able to build a "colony" on the east coast that is completely separated from the rest of your empire. Additionally, building a city on an island a few tiles off the coast of your capital should not count as a "colony" if it is close enough that its borders meet with your capital's. Does that make sense?

So as long as the city is separated from the rest of your empire, it should be treated like a colony. Once its borders meet with the rest of your civilization, then it should no longer be considered a colony.

I had never really figured out how to manage the colonies and make them different than other cities, but I do like your idea of making them like City-States. That seems like it would fit very well with Civ V's current game engine.

[Draskar]

Thank's MegaBears
My system is "thinked" for a post-columbus colonial system but the idea of colony only on other continent it's not mine. Colonies exists from ancient times so with this system you can always do colonies (unless we chosse to put the found colony ability of settlers later in tech tree, with caravels for example).
Your idea is realistic but i think too strict for a civilization game.

[shadowxavier]

I think the idea of colonies are a very good one, however, I think we need some differences from what OP says. Reason for this is that you are not after creating just another city state. All colonies made in the world, are thought of as a part of the main empire, but due to the distance, they need to control the local parts without having to wait for detailed instructions from home. Right now, there is no real penalty for setteling far away from your capitol, as Civ IV had. That is why there has to be a difference from a puppet city and a city state and a colony. To create this without implementing new game mechanics I think theese differences would be a good soloution.

- Colonies do NOT provide you with gold, science and culture automatically.
- Colonies can ONLY be built outside a minium range from your closest city\capitol. (Must be at least 25 hexes away)
- Colonies must be named when created, and are settled with the harbour building if on a coast, to establish an automatic trade route. All luxury resources are gained by the founding empire.
- Colonies can, with founding empires acceptance, create settlers and military units.

Founding empires options and control:
- Founding empire are able to control strategic resources, and how many the colonies can keep, and how many are "sent" to the empire.
- Foundig empire can decide the "personality traits" of the colony, like if they are allowed to create settlers, city focus, number of military units.
- Founding empire can select to "demand" gold, science, food and units from their colonies. (see below)

Founding empire and relation to the colony:
- All population over 1 will create a negative modifier to the relation (yearning for freedom)
- A military unit from the founding empire, will bring a positive modifier to the relation. (Military oppression)
- Gifts of gold, food, and units will create positive modifiers. Also to let the colony keep a resource. (founding empire supporting colony)
- Demands from time to time will NOT create negative modifiers as this is expected by the colony.
- Demands within a certain time limit from another (based on the current influence) will create negative modifiers. (Demands are out of proportion)

In case of liberation:
- The colony AI will determine if the choose to demand liberation peacfully or just go right into a liberation war at once.
- A new city state will be created, even though it may have more than one city, and function like all other normal city states in the game.
- The city state will have the same techs as the foundig empire had.
- In case of war: A pool of units, based on size and the tech tree will be created instantly to defend. All former empire units are instantly damaged with half of their HPs to simulate the suprising uprising a liberation is.
- In case of peace: The city state will have max influence with the former founding empire. Relations will now deterioate as a normal CS, and transfer of resources will also function as a normal CS.
- You are not seen as a warmongering fool if you decide to declare war on a CS that was a colony of yours.

[PhailRaptor]

- You are not seen as a warmongering fool if you decide to declare war on a CS that was a colony of yours, if they declared independence through war.

It would be odd if you could declare war on a city-state who you had blessed with independence without negative political ramifications.

[Draskar]

Cool ideas shadow : ) but a little bit complicated for a FIRST implementation of colonies imho