China Achieves Economic Victory Tomorrow

[kaybeebiscuits]

Next turn, I mean tomorrow when trading begins, it's going to be a bloodbath in the US and Europe

Speak of a real economic victory there ...

I found an interesting video to illustrate; watched this earlier when my grandson was browsing youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MYcLRNFzrs

The Black Orb = the indebted economies of USA, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain etc.

The White Orb = the Invisible Hand in economics

The Black Gate = the eventuality of falling into an insurmountable and irreversible debt crisis

Black Orb's denial of emotions/sins = the denial of an impending debt crisis by rising the debt ceiling by US$2 trillion.

Black Orb's actions = quantitative easing 1 and 2 (and possibly 3)

Black Orb's desires = perpetual economic growth

Hmmm ... where's China by the way?

[SlickSlicer]

lol'd at the thread title.

[Kukulcán]

Well lets see....

We loaned millions to war ridden Europe after World War 1 and 2. Remember how that worked out, most of the significant loans became worthless/useless by policies in Europe.

Now... China has a huge stake in the U.S., but if worst comes to be, we can always pull off the Streseman (Weimar Rep) option and screw China in the proccess

[jacypr]

To say that China even has an economy is a joke. All the "growth" that we have been hearing about is a lie. Growth of what? Of poverty, misery and cheap unskilled labor? Of pollution?

Economic victory you say? I rather live in one of the "loser" countries then.

[Veshta]

China won a long time ago. They have slowly but surely been increasing their influence with non-aligned in Asia and Africa to get access to whatever resources there is

Well lets see.......

If you are referring to the Marshall Plan initiated after WW2 then it was in excess of ten billion (~1% US GDP) over a four to five year period.

It was self-serving in the extreme;
An economically weak Europe would very likely have fallen sway to the communist ideal and joined hands with the red menace.
An economically weak Europe would not have been able to import any of the insane surplus created by the US industrial complex in the decades after WW2.
An economically weak Europe would more than likely have descended into yet another war just as the chaos caused by the '29 crash (initiated in the US mind you) was a major contributor to WW2.

On paper the money was not a loan per se and thus had no repayment requirements, but it was made back in spades in the decades that followed through trade .. trade that would not have been possible at anywhere near the speed/level had the reconstruction not been boosted.

Black and White does not exist in politics, regardless of what you have been told .. just sayin'

[Kukulcán]

China won a long time ago. They have slowly but surely been increasing their influence with non-aligned in Asia and Africa to get access to whatever resources there is

If you are referring to the Marshall Plan initiated after WW2 then it was in excess of ten billion (~1% US GDP) over a four to five year period.

It was self-serving in the extreme;
An economically weak Europe would very likely have fallen sway to the communist ideal and joined hands with the red menace.
An economically weak Europe would not have been able to import any of the insane surplus created by the US industrial complex in the decades after WW2.
An economically weak Europe would more than likely have descended into yet another war just as the chaos caused by the '29 crash (initiated in the US mind you) was a major contributor to WW2.

On paper the money was not a loan per se and thus had no repayment requirements, but it was made back in spades in the decades that followed through trade .. trade that would not have been possible at anywhere near the speed/level had the reconstruction not been boosted.

Black and White does not exist in politics, regardless of what you have been told .. just sayin'

I was in fact, not referring to the Marshall plan. If you interepreted my statement as a black and white clear cut, we'd get out of it, I am sorry but how and why?

Just sayin'

In my original I mentioned Streseman... nothing to do with the Marhsall Plan. Think, those kind of loans.

So regardless of trying to shoehorn someone in the face, maybe you should, you know read the post . Could help

[PhailRaptor]

To say that China even has an economy is a joke. All the "growth" that we have been hearing about is a lie. Growth of what? Of poverty, misery and cheap unskilled labor? Of pollution?

Economic victory you say? I rather live in one of the "loser" countries then.

I don't claim to be an expert, but China is essentially 2 different countries economically. You have the cities and their massive industrial complexes, making the government tons of money, and you have the rural "cancer villages" and farming communities, where the industrial waste flows freely into the major river systems.

[jelf]

To say that China even has an economy is a joke. All the "growth" that we have been hearing about is a lie. Growth of what? Of poverty, misery and cheap unskilled labor? Of pollution?

Economic victory you say? I rather live in one of the "loser" countries then.

All I know is that the Chinese government can lend trillions of real cash to US.
While the US government can only pay these debts back by printing money or by issuing trillions of debts more.
And every dollar the US citizens spend, near half of it is from foreign loans.

[TheEnigmaticMan]

The Chinese economy's growth depends almost entirely upon Western prosperity. Without demand for cheaply produced products, their production base cannot generate the revenue that has been fuelling their growth. On a side note that others have raised, we contend that only about 9% of American debt is owned by China. It's the other 91% that you should be concerned with.
Besides, their per capita GDP is about $1284, so by Western standards they're still piss poor.

[Furball]

America's golden age is ending.

[bronzeager]

quick, burn another great merchant!

[stethnorun]

America's golden age is ending.

I would say it ended when we allowed FDR to turn the federal government into a monster. This was just the long-delayed, inevitable conclusion of that lack of vigilance and principled backbone. When the only country in the world founded on principles LOSES those same principles, the only outcome is decay.