Whats happened with Joe?

[BiteMyBios]

Oh, you can not understand? Spitting in the sandbox. But no need to cut out parts of stories that would make the game, similar to the first part. I have said we need more details, more details. I'm enough of a mission arcade. I need the whole story, not something that had fallen behind after castration. The story though is not what is interesting, for it is interesting to watch, but it cut off. Just look for the real reasons. Why do you do for a long time, and then cut it all? This is stupid!

Because what they ended up making was against the original concept, take a look at most of Joe's Adventures missions, like Bomb under the seat/Can't stop me now/Piece of cake/etc all those missions are so ubberly ridiculous...just so...anti-mafia I guess?

One more thing, I've seen that you blame it all on the "cut content" list that is all over the "real" mafia 2 wiki, right? have you even stopped to look at what's missing? most of it it's part of Joe's Adventures, and if not, then related to the choices you could originaly take, what's missing from the list is hardly even 15% of content...they didn't "cut it all" they merely took out the silly side missions.

What I don't approve however, is the fact that they sold them later on as DLC, but that's another issue, I mean, it's funny when you think about L.A Noire and their two missing desks...I mean, they took out two entire desks, sure it was for the whole conflict about disk space, but it's still a huge part of the game that got, as most say "chopped" it amazes me to see people upset about it though, when it had to be done...

[Dimitri Rascalov]

Everyone entitled to their opinion but what it all comes down to is money look at how much the game sold.. Could have been an explosion but instead empty promises lol, the next one will be a sandbox. If there is a next, sandbox games last much longer giving the game life after its beaten (With a modding community lasts much longer), It doesnt take anything away from the story. GTA would be excellent if it had an updated engine lol. Its made tons of money and continues to make money (No shortage of lame ass gangster wanabe kids though LOL)

[Dimitri Rascalov]

Also quick note i love saints rows story because it was so damn funny lmao..

[BiteMyBios]

Everyone entitled to their opinion but what it all comes down to is money look at how much the game sold.. Could have been an explosion but instead empty promises lol, the next one will be a sandbox. If there is a next, sandbox games last much longer giving the game life after its beaten (With a modding community lasts much longer), It doesnt take anything away from the story. GTA would be excellent if it had an updated engine lol. Its made tons of money and continues to make money (No shortage of lame ass gangster wanabe kids though LOL)

I see where you're coming from, but in all honesty, I disagree, take for example, the Kane & Lynch series, it's a shooter, and it sucks to most people, now you wouldn't expect to see developers going all about "let's make it a first person shooter then!! ", instead of "giving up" and going after the easy way, I don't see why the hell wouldn't they just try to go forward and do their best to make it like they wanted in the next game, Mafia II started out as a more "open" experience, they changed their minds because it went off track, and had to head back to the original concept, now with that in mind, why couldn't they just pull another Mafia I/II-like experience? why to give up on the original concept? because sandboxes run the market? what about all the other genres out there that have nice titles to themselves yet are underated? they don't necesarily need to change their roots in order to sell more, they just need to improve what they're doing, if they really go the "sandbox" way for example, I wouldn't call that mediocricy, but then again I wouldn't respect them as much, if you make something, you should stand by your ideas, and if I've seen a stubborn team it's gotta be 2K Czech, if you see all their interviews, you'd see that they wanted this game their way, they don't care about what's popular, they have their vision and that's it, and in all honesty, they're kinda right, it's their game, their idea, if they screw up, well, it's kinda up to them anyway...either way, I think they already have a strong fanbase out there that supports Mafia, only most of the handful of people who disliked Mafia II claimed that it has to be a sandbox, most people who come from Mafia I kind of saw it coming after all.

[Fugue]

they don't necesarily need to change their roots in order to sell more, they just need to improve what they're doing, if they really go the "sandbox" way for example, I wouldn't call that mediocricy, but then again I wouldn't respect them as much, if you make something, you should stand by your ideas, and if I've seen a stubborn team it's gotta be 2K Czech, if you see all their interviews, you'd see that they wanted this game their way, they don't care about what's popular, they have their vision and that's it, and in all honesty, they're kinda right, it's their game, their idea, if they screw up, well, it's kinda up to them anyway...either way, I think they already have a strong fanbase out there that supports Mafia, only most of the handful of people who disliked Mafia II claimed that it has to be a sandbox, most people who come from Mafia I kind of saw it coming after all.

couldn't agree more

and it the risk of repeating myself there's a valid argument to say Mafia 2 could have been better/sold more IF they had not gone down the sandbox route in the first place, yes the sandbox market is huge but there is still room for games which focus more on story than playground, I was always afraid another game would try to be a hybrid of sandbox/linear and end up excelling as neither, all water under the bridge now. I'm still clinging on to a little bit of hope 2K will go back to the games roots.

[HITassassin]

I do not know. There are no "pure" motives. Around some money. When they returned, would cut out, it would be cool. For me personally, and for other people who want those same parts. We can only hope, but ... I can not imagine that-be developers took, and said we really cut some of which, but for now we are going to return them. It is not in the sandbox. I saw these carved location, these videos, the files remain after excision. Hurry ... They did it in a hurry.
I really do not want to flattery on the rampage. I respect your opinion, but I have and own. Their opinion and I will defend.

[Fugue]

no point thinking of any future plans for Mafia 2, JA was the last DLC, putting resources into patching a "complete" game together will never happen, from a financial pov it makes no sense.

hurry? it took 8 years After 2k bought, and presumably rescued IS there might well have been a rush to get the game into a state to release it, and if that was in part for financial reasons I can see why, it's easy to rant and rave about cuts but I prefer to try and see the bigger picture.

but like I said if it had been more like mafia 1 from the outset and not chopped and changed I think the outcome would have been more satisfying.

I respect your opinion, but I have and own. Their opinion and I will defend.

that's fair enough, is all I'm doing.

[HITassassin]

Probably. I do not know. Now do not know. All hope rests with the Mafia 3

[Buccaneer]

Because it did not sell well could mean that it did not appeal to today's dumbed-down market. Who has time for a cinematic game, all people want to do is just mow down people and not have to think or waste time watching cut-scenes. Every mass market series has gone that way. I don't care what was promised (I did not follow pre-game hype), not do I care how much it sold; it was an incredible, memorable game for me, just like M1 was.

[Dimitri Rascalov]

I love the story brings me back to when i first saw goodfellas and shawshank, but when it comes down to it the company really wanted to make money.. or they wouldnt have sold us back our cut content lmao. Also id rather have much prefered they had just taken out the playboy and wanted posters/game art crap and put in melee combat and shooting from the car... Not to mention scrapped jimmys vendetta and went with the saga of henry or eddie

[Fugue]

but when it comes down to it the company really wanted to make money..

as do ALL companies.

or they wouldnt have sold us back our cut content lmao.

I don't like the way some DLC is released, but it's a choice to buy it or not, I wasn't surprised, T2 made it clear after the success of Borderlands DLC they intended to do more in future games, don't like it vote with your wallet, is the only power you have.

[HITassassin]

They just sold part of the cut and recycled content in these DLC

[Fugue]

I think everyone already knows that......

it's actually very common now and has been for a long time, content is developed than either not included/cut out and either sold as DLC, pre order incentives etc all the time.

don't like it, don't buy it.

[BiteMyBios]

Yeah, the same happened with L.A Noire, two cases were stripped off and sold as incentive DLC at first, now it's just regular DLC, it happens everywhere, all the time, regardless, you're not forced to buy the DLC, and I somehow prefer to play Mafia II without it's DLCs, however, I still play the DLCs out of fun, if you don't like it, that's fine, but don't go all about "OH NO THEY TOOK HALF A GAME OUT! D:" when EVERY developer out there does that today, if you check every game out there closely, all of them have files inside of them that seem distant from the final release, they're not there because "lazy" developers didn't take them out, they're there because they were the base of the game, but seriously, every developer out there "cuts" content, wether it's for the sake of the game or to sell it later, it's up to them, it's their decision, but as it's been said above "It's all abut money" well yah, that's exactly why they sold those missions later as DLC, then again, you're not forced to buy it.

[Fugue]

the L A Noire DLC was pretty blatantly ripped out when the game was finished but some of it was actually very good, it was funny how at one point in the game you were welcomed to your new desk from burglary , for pricing I thought the R* pass was pretty good value.

not sure I would say the same about Mafia 2, the arcade stuff just didn't fit, but I still enjoyed what I bought, was glad I won the rest here as I didn't see the clothes/car packs as worth it.

OT but bit shocked to read Team Bondi had been sold and taken over, rumors they were bankrupt...

[BiteMyBios]

Even then, it's the same concept if you think about it, stuff taken out to be sold later, I myself don't really mind it if it's worth it, like the L.A Noire DLC, as for Mafia II it's kind of different, they're fun, they're just not...Mafia II? either way, it all goes down to the same, what's funny is the way people recieves the DLC, most people go like "Oh nice DLC" for L.A Noire while most go like "Crap developers sold us half a game!" whilst it is in essence, the same doing, different game.

OT: As for TB going bankrupt...well, I'm not sure about that, I heard they were sold because they didn't like to work under R*, they were actually supposed to turn into a brand new R* studio, but they denied it, and as far as I've read around TB and R* parted sides, TB needed a new publisher though, hence why they were sold by, or at least that's what I've read.

[Dimitri Rascalov]

Ehh whos to vote that jimmys games for M2 should have just been scrapped all together and put the saga or Eddie, Henry and Carlo Falcone (Hes my favorite!) Jimmys games were just kind of brought out of the air lol we dont hear about him in the center game or joes adventures lol hes just their where as the 3 i listed are center roles.

[BiteMyBios]

Ehh whos to vote that jimmys games for M2 should have just been scrapped all together and put the saga or Eddie, Henry and Carlo Falcone (Hes my favorite!) Jimmys games were just kind of brought out of the air lol we dont hear about him in the center game or joes adventures lol hes just their where as the 3 i listed are center roles.

That's the whole point of Jimmy...a non-canon character who's your "Free Ride Extreme" I do wish we'd know more about Eddie though, in the whole game he's only present in one shootout and it's not even in the main story.

[HITassassin]

Our arguments certainly will not change anything. As with any petition. Listen, yes, the games cut something on LSD, but not so noticeable. In Mafia 2 is negligible. That is, if you're playing in LA Noir there are quite intact. No holes, sewn with white thread. Yes, and DLC were qualitative. But in the Mafia 2 ... not the case. Pay for the free ride? Thank you.

[Fugue]

That is, if you're playing in LA Noir there are quite intact. No holes

sorry but you're wrong, the mysterious welcome from burglary speech is a gaping hole, there obviously was at one point a burglary desk and it was cut out, the equivalent of someone telling you they have no work for today in Mafia 2, a ghost of something that was there. The DLC ALL fits very neatly into the plot, why, because it was there then taken out, what they did is no different to what they did with Mafia 2.

the quality of the DLC is irrelevant, as I said L A Noire has very good DLC but the fact is the motivation for taking out is exactly the same, money, it shouldn't be dressed up as something else.

the fact that TB is no more is very telling, long troubled development, sound familiar?

[HITassassin]

Money, money everywhere. I'm just desperate. I understand that may in some way wrong. I'm just disappointed. Emotions ...
I was waiting for this game for a long time. Quite a long time. Just now in my game feels deceived.

[BehindTheEye]

To my belief, he is dead.

[behindtheeye]

[RestInPeace]

Sorry to revive an old thread but this does appeal to me after reading the most interesting posts from Buccaneer, BiteMyBios, and Fugue on the "What has happen with Mafia II" subject here. How fondly, wish I'd came earlier in the forums of one of my favorite games from 2010. Smart forum members here. Kudos. Just to express my feelings about Mafia II, could it have been better and realistic? Yes. Could Vito have been a much better protagonist? I think so too.

No such things as reviews, scores, records etc etc etc should go against your personal taste and thoughts, telling you what's good. Franchises still manages to be successful to the thoughts of other people, scores and rates don't matter. We aren't robots that allow a site on a computer to think for them.

Me, personally, after realizing that DLCs are meant to be fun and roaming, I'd now enjoyed Joe's Adventures for what it is. The Jimmy DLCs is what I see no point though IMO. It should be Joe as a "canon" and free extreme. I don't like to see non-characters that are not design to be part of the game.

And to add another thing that many people bash over the game because it isn't as they expected it to be, to filled their desires. As for those who play Mafia I (most not all, the ones who criticise the game without in a polite way) see themselves angry and felt as if they were ripped off just because Mafia II takes some things from other games like Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row. Well, Mafia II DID started out first as sandbox and more open didn't it? Don't understand why they flame their hatred of the game.

But after reviewing the past threads about their negative ratings and following them more clearly and carefully, it's clear to me at least that they are angry with the game because it wasn't the same as Mafia I (you know the same structures, gameplay etc etc) from the year of 2002. Of course franchises are all about moving foward not backward, we're in the future not the past! Mafia II never tried to be the same as Mafia I! Why should it be anyway? Both games are based on their own merits regardless of weather or not the flaws they have.

As for those who call Mafia II a "terrible sandbox", is there seriously any reasons to put this franchise on the same level as many great sandboxes out there? Why? Because sandbox controls the entire gaming world for good? Or do you only care for your own expectations rather than something you already got what you paid for knowing what it could give you? It's sad that Mafia II wasn't hit because it didn't appeal to today's dumped-downed market as Buccaneer said in another post in this thread, the FACT that so many people come from that annoying mainstream public. Well, at least, most people like myself enjoy the game for what it is and nothing more, while the others don't dislike the game but were highly disappointed of how it was released due to the "cut features" and removed side missions (which those missions were later saved for Joe's Adventures).

Every developer should stand by their own ideas instead of giving up on their original concept they wanted to show but rather they just stick to what many franchises offer IMO. At least improve the future of the Mafia franchise rather than bringing Mafia II down pointlessly. Anyway, sorry I had done something wrong in this post but to elaborate on what most of the members who have stated their passion and criticism with the game in a polite and mature manner as seen in here and the other past threads, Mafia II is still a good game to play. Nothing is better than the other. And lastly, as for myself I want the Mafia franchise to stay only story-driven.

[Buccaneer]

Peace, you also needed to a few more line breaks.