Turn-Based Option for Internet and LAN Games (Or Net/LAN Hotseat)

[Bob 428]

I know I'm not the only person asking for this, but I figure the more of us who request something, the more likely it is to happen.

I and others that I know would like to see an option in internet/LAN setup to disable simultaneous turns and play a turn-based game instead. There are a handful of reasons, but the most important is the "whoever clicks first wins" combat issue in simultaneous turn games (especially when lag on slower machines is an issue). It's disappointing to see so much thought put into the strategic intricacies of combat and unit positioning, and then have it ruined by simultaneous speed-click warfare.

Another option is to simply enable the newly-implemented hotseat mode to work on more than just one machine (over internet and LAN). In theory, it would work much the same way, although I imagine the programming would be quite different.

If such a feature is ever implemented, it's important that the players have something to do in the down-time between their turns. One solution would be relatively simple - just let them look at their stuff and plan their next move. Allow them access to the diplomacy menus, statistics, etc. so that they can spend their down time plotting. This would give them something to do and hopefully help them take their next turn faster as a result of being prepared when the time comes. It would also be infinitely better than staring at some black screen with an "other players are taking their turns" box floating in the middle of the screen.

The addition of the new hotseat mode is promising, but still has it's problems. Among them are these: players have to get up and sit down hundreds of times, have nothing to do during the time between turns, and can see what other players are doing (since it's all played on the same screen).

Ideas or thoughts? It may be wishful thinking, but I'd love to hear from somebody at 2K about this. The gameplay itself is getting better with each patch, but until a feature like what I am suggesting is implemented, I and many others like me will hardly touch the multiplayer.

[civdiss]

Well we've been asking for that for months now and looks like it is not a priority for most people (2K and other MP players). I personally would like to see the same as MP is ruined for me by the simultaneous turns. Unfortunately you shouldn't expect this to be added anytime soon in MP but you can at least play hotseat after the new patch just released anybody tried hotseat yet? is it good, how's the AI over there?

[Olek]

Many of us have been asking for a working multiplayer for close to a year now, does it seem they are listening?

[MaxMcG]

+1 on this. I gave up on mp almost immediately as I intensely hate the simultaneous turn mechanic. All of my 10 or so regular Civ 4 playing friends feel exactly the same way without exception. None of them play civ5 multiplayer, although we're trying a pbem game now.

Trying to essentially turn a turn based game into a quasi real time one was stupid idea in my opinion, although some enjoy it presumably. I just cannot understand how this long after launch, something as simple as allowing turn based play has not been implemented.

I really hope Firaxis introduce this sooner rather than later.

[Bob 428]

@civdiss: Yes, I've played around with the hotseat option a little but have not yet played an actual full-length games due to the reasons that I mentioned in the fifth paragraph. Basically, I don't want to get up and sit down hundreds of times, I don't want my friends to be able to see that I'm three turns away from the Manhattan project, and I don't want to sit around doing nothing in between turns. I want to be able to look at my cities and my menus and plan out my next turn. That's not to say hotseat is somehow a bad idea - a lot of people wanted it and it is very popular. But there's a lot of us who would much rather play turn-based over separate computers instead. More options = better game.

@Olek: Well, the implementation of the hotseat game mode is a promising sign that the developers are listening to the forums, since it was the fans themselves that demanded it be put (back) in the franchise. In fact, I'm pretty sure both hotseat and turn-based internet/LAN games were both options in the civ IV multiplayer. I just can't remember if they were there from the start or were patched in after release.

@MaxMcG: It does seem like a relatively simple option to add, especially when you compare it to the work they've done on AI strategy lately. And my friends are in agreement with us. We had the unfortunate experience of playing a simultaneous LAN game once. As soon as we all realized how awful that works when two humans go to war, we never played together again. One guy (call him p1) had a superior army and probably superior strategy. The other (call him p2), however, was able to click faster. Before p1 had a chance to do anything, most of his stuff had already died. Even worse, it's possible that p1's camera auto-centered on the other side of the world at the beginning of his turn while p2's went straight to the units in combat, which is pretty much based on random luck. With all the strategy built into combat, seeing someone win just because of random luck is borderline depressing.

[civdiss]

It does seem like a relatively simple option to add

You would think, but the reason we were given by 2K for this option not being added anytime soon was that it is too complex to implement, programmingwise. Though 2KGreg posted in these forums, a long time ago, that they might consider it after hotseat but when I asked again recently he completely ignored me which means that are not even considering adding turn-based MP yet. So unfortunately I have to presume that we won't be playing MP in the near future.

[MaxMcG]

You would think, but the reason we were given by 2K for this option not being added anytime soon was that it is too complex to implement, programmingwise. Though 2KGreg posted in these forums, a long time ago, that they might consider it after hotseat but when I asked again recently he completely ignored me which means that are not even considering adding turn-based MP yet. So unfortunately I have to presume that we won't be playing MP in the near future.

In fairness to Greg, I would say it is the case that he simply had no information to impart on the matter. I'm hopeful that mp will get fixed. It's just that our collective patience is running a little thin I think.

@Bob - that's exactly my experience too. Civ should not be played by frantically clicking on units in a vain attempt to attack an enemy unit that has already moved away.

[Bob 428]

I've heard the same reasoning for not adding the option we want (that it would be too complex to program). I find that reason either hard to believe or simply a weak reason altogether. Maybe both. Sure some things are more difficult to program than others, but if they can reprogram the combat algorithms of artificial intelligence, I'm certain they could also tell the game to let players take turns in sequence over network games. Past civ games had that option - so did new technology make us unable to do something that we used to be able to do? That doesn't make sense to me. Besides, these guys built this game from the ground up. If they really wanted to change something, they could. Shoot, they could reprogram it so that a bunch of singing, dancing monkeys flooded the screen and ate all your workers as soon as you hit the renaissance era if they really wanted to. It would simply take a little time and and effort, both of which require money. Since they already have our money for the original game, that's not good for us, but they're still trying to sell DLC and I imagine they'll also go for an expansion pack sometime around Christmas. Hopefully they'll make some of these much-needed improvements by then. If not, good luck selling (me) more add-ons.

All this is a real shame, because it truly is a great game with so much potential to get even better with an expansion. Unfortunately, it's a great game that I have to play alone due to a lousy multiplayer, and playing alone against ai's leaves you with a very empty feeling even if you win. Try bragging to the menu screen about how you dominated the last game. You'll understand what I mean, lol.

[civdiss]

So now you probably understand that when a software company offers such a reason for not adding a feature (too complex or whatever) is just because there is absolutely no willingness to add the feature at all. Its just a poor unacceptable excuse really but apparently that's the best they could offer.

[lolers]

freetip: there wont be any turn based option in civ5, just go wait for civ6 or something

i feel really sorry for that, civ had the potential to be a great game

[cato12]

with the new turn based hotseat feature being added isnt online mp turn based as well now or is it the same as before?

[civdiss]

with the new turn based hotseat feature being added isnt online mp turn based as well now or is it the same as before?

same as before, hotseat crashes often if you actually try and finish a game..no crashes on SP though

[Bob 428]

Yeah, civdiss is right. All hotseat added was a turn based hotseat mode playable from just one computer. I had hoped you could run a hotseat game over multiple computers through a lan network (or maybe even online), but that doesn't seem to be the case.

As it is now, we are at the mercy of the developers. Hopefully we'll see some of the changes we're all hoping for (turn-based lan/net mp option, mp animations option, etc) in the next patch, but its out of our hands. 2k knows what we've been asking for. All we can do now is keep asking.

[cato12]

same as before, hotseat crashes often if you actually try and finish a game..no crashes on SP though

thats a shame. maybe now that hotseat turn based gameplay has been re-introduced the same turn based function can be added as an option for online play.

heres hopin anyways.

[Bob 428]

There's other problems with the multiplayer that need fixed too, one of them being obnoxiously long amounts of time in between turns during a simultaneous multiplayer game. It's odd, because I was playing with a friend who never has problems in single player, and I never have problems either. Our games both work great in s.p. We tried a game over LAN on a decently fast network (over 1mb download speed) and it was so slow that by 1420 it was virtually unplayable (about a minute and a half between each turn).

Maybe if a turn-based m.p. net/LAN option was added, it would help to alleviate some of that problem. I really don't know, but it needs fixed one way or the other. There's clearly a lot of work yet to be done on this game.

[mksm]

Maybe if a turn-based m.p. net/LAN option was added, it would help to alleviate some of that problem. I really don't know, but it needs fixed one way or the other. There's clearly a lot of work yet to be done on this game.

You can try hosting a "LOCAL" MP game, but it's just the same ... sitting several minutes to play a 30s turn. If MP games were some sort of ground breaking new feature I could understand that it had a few (lots) of bugs, but ... *sigh*

[nudden]

Old thread .. hmm .. played my first multiplayer game against a friend of me tonight. these simultaneous turns sucks A LOT. totally game braking. with the upcoming addon and a turn-based option this game would be awesome!! i hope that that firaxis will implement this feature.... please

[fuzzyfractal42]

I just joined this forum to express to 2K that I agree with the others in this thread who would really, really like to see a turned-based option for MP implemented. I have over 200 hours of SP logged in Civ5 so far, I have bought all the DLC, and plan on buying G&K when it comes out. And would really like to play with my two friends who bought and are playing the game on my recommendation, without simultaneous turns drastically changing the gameplay dynamic. Thank you!

[Antony_Lee]

seriously, simultaneous turn or ppl by ppl turn isn't the issues.

i remeber that simultaneous turn was first introduce in "age of wonders (1999)", which is great (have good feedback) with technology and computer at the moment.

what does matter is that the poor performance and bugs are problems.

what we get now is that we click the button. but the host doesn't receive the click, or it just not response, you don't got the latest information. so you always attack something which actually have moves away. and someone always can perform some double turn actions. (move close -> attack, then move away before you can retalitate).

I am not sure why synchronization have cause such a huge problems, it makes no sense that civ are worse than those RTS or FPS,
both in graphics response, computer performance and also synchronization.

just a note, the old games also have option to turn it on-off, which i guess not that hard to code.

[Azrune]

seriously, simultaneous turn or ppl by ppl turn isn't the issues.

Well to clarify it is one of many, if it wasn't an issue at all then no one would metion it, seriously! I've held out a year now to fix the many issues with their most amazing mp game (lol). I think its time to uninstall and say goodbye to it for myself, it has become too late to save it! Ur right ofc about the issues you mention, it just one of many. And yeah I agree with what you say about fps and other rts games. I can only guess that it was really bad coding or something, amatuers!