The Space Race

[General De Cool]

A quick post about Tech Victory. A game I played yesterday resulted in both players reaching Alpha Centauri in 1994. I was playing Chinese so I managed to survive two cities being flipped by one player using Spanish and the other Spanish player ignoring Democracy to capture my cap but felt a bit cheated when the Victory screen gave him the game. I launched my space ship first and every time I've seen a draw before, the first to launch has won. My ship had 2 engines 1 fuel, his had 3 engines and 3 fuel but was launched a round later. There are lots of extras available such as extra life support and fuel but does anyone know what they do ? or was it you need to have your own cap, not someone elses ?

[danthechan]

the only thing that speeds up your spaceship is extra propulsion. you can have up to 4 before they stop benefiting you. did you say he took your cap? you would not have been able to win without it. in the previous ties if you won it was because you were the host. that is the stupid way the game devs decided to break ties.

[elthrasher]

Yeah, as counter-intuitive as it seems, you don't even need extra fuel for the extra propulsion modules. I guess extra fuel modules are just for roasting marshmallows along the way.

[RZ Racer 9]

Take a look at the weight as you add extras (fuel, life support, habitation...) The more mass you have to accellerate, the longer it takes to get there. Fastest ship will always be: 4 propulsion, 1 life support, 1 fuel, 1 habitation. Sometimes, If I'm absolutely, crushing it, I'll build the full ship with all 13 pieces....just for fun!

[Star428]

A quick post about Tech Victory. A game I played yesterday resulted in both players reaching Alpha Centauri in 1994. I was playing Chinese so I managed to survive two cities being flipped by one player using Spanish and the other Spanish player ignoring Democracy to capture my cap but felt a bit cheated when the Victory screen gave him the game. I launched my space ship first and every time I've seen a draw before, the first to launch has won. My ship had 2 engines 1 fuel, his had 3 engines and 3 fuel but was launched a round later. There are lots of extras available such as extra life support and fuel but does anyone know what they do ? or was it you need to have your own cap, not someone elses ?

Only reason to build extra life support is if u want to increase your score by building extra habitation module. Which, of course, slows down your travel time.

[General De Cool]

Only reason to build extra life support is if u want to increase your score by building extra habitation module. Which, of course, slows down your travel time.

Yes score could be the reason, unfortunately I have no idea how the game scores but maybe I should look into it. There might be a thread about it.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

Winning Space Flight victories give more points than domination. Any other victory gives more rating points than Domination. Now winning a all cap Domination as opposed to a "everybody leaves" domination will give more points. Cultural victory vs low ranked players have netted me a max 10 points in rating every time.

[General De Cool]

Cultural victory vs low ranked players have netted me a max 10 points in rating every time.

But domination victory vs low ranks will often of reward with 2 points rating, sometimes none.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

To guarantee points if possible is taking all caps for real domination victory.

[General De Cool]

Unfotunately I only have theories, I don't know for sure that anything gives points other than opponent's position on the leaderboard. Tech victory is more difficult than economic, even for chinese and Greek most of the time.

[MorteEterna]

Winning Space Flight victories give more points than domination. Any other victory gives more rating points than Domination. Now winning a all cap Domination as opposed to a "everybody leaves" domination will give more points. Cultural victory vs low ranked players have netted me a max 10 points in rating every time.

What do you mean?

If you say, for example, that you've got 1200 points and after a cultural win you will get 10 points while domination victory would give you 5 points, that wouldn't be true.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

I'm speaking from a high ranked players standpoint. My rank is in the 2200's in which playing in a game with people of ranks 1800's or less cause for the math to be the way it is. Unlike most I check my rank asap if possible after every game. I have recorded the amounts I get from unique victories such as space flight and Cultural... They end the same way for points in max depending on the type of player you face along with your current win streak sometimes.

[dukeblue1987]

I'm speaking from a high ranked players standpoint. My rank is in the 2200's in which playing in a game with people of ranks 1800's or less cause for the math to be the way it is. Unlike most I check my rank asap if possible after every game. I have recorded the amounts I get from unique victories such as space flight and Cultural... They end the same way for points in max depending on the type of player you face along with your current win streak sometimes.

I don't have any facts to refute your statement but I would be very surprised if it were true. The ratings are based on a modified elo system.

Also, I'm not sure how many non dom victories Morte has won, but he was the #1 ranked FFA for the longest time and still would be #1 if it weren't for a random reset.

[MorteEterna]

I don't have any facts to refute your statement but I would be very surprised if it were true. The ratings are based on a modified elo system.

Also, I'm not sure how many non dom victories Morte has won, but he was the #1 ranked FFA for the longest time and still would be #1 if it weren't for a random reset.

I think 0 space races (or maybe just 1 over more than thousand of games), few cultural victories, something like 50 economic victories and others are domination victories.

What I can tell is, that doesn't mean anything. I have even got 20 points from a game when I had 2450 points, playing let's say a top player and two noobs. That's much more weird than getting 10 points from beating 3 top players.

[MorteEterna]

Win streak doesn't mean anything. I can tell that because I had a win streak of about 230 games

[MultiPlayaBeast]

I've noticed it and perhaps the way things operated back in your day... don't operate that way now. NO ONE can tell me how the FFA system works as I play it more than anybody ever has, period! I study wins strongly and losses, don't mean I know it all but I have seen from testing things to be the way I see it. Your 230 game win streak in FFA is impossible and never can be done. Freezes, disconnects happen to the best of us and you definitely do not have good internet speed Morte. You do get more points from different victories other than domination from everyone quitting.

[MorteEterna]

I've noticed it and perhaps the way things operated back in your day... don't operate that way now. NO ONE can tell me how the FFA system works as I play it more than anybody ever has, period! I study wins strongly and losses, don't mean I know it all but I have seen from testing things to be the way I see it. Your 230 game win streak in FFA is impossible and never can be done. Freezes, disconnects happen to the best of us and you definitely do not have good internet speed Morte. You do get more points from different victories other than domination from everyone quitting.

Then tell me how many games you've played. I did that, that's not impossible, and I don't think you play it more than anybody.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

My rank has been reset 3 times. 2 for absence and one was a rating reset. When I was playing nonstop Zulu first round was 1200 something games wins and losses, then there was the second round in which I played around 700 something games in FFA and there is this round when I was reset but my record games stayed the same and that record in wins and losses is about 3 games from 2000 altogether. I care about my rank more than anyone who has ever played so I don't want to hear opinions on the matter as I have done enough games to know what I'm talking about. Someone telling me that they know more about the rating system is like telling me that you can lose two advantage battles in a row before 1200 a.d.... CAN'T HAPPEN!

[MorteEterna]

My rank has been reset like 30 times. Maybe less than 10 for absence, but most were random resets, one of which, when I was number 1 in FFA ( I had 2467 points ). Who cares about how many games you played, who cares about how much you care about your rank, you don't know other people so you can't tell. You can lose two advantage battles in a row. That just happened to me yesterday. Won 9 v 3, lost 9v2.5.

Attacked another capital again and lost 9v6. Oh, sorry, that theory doesn't work anymore.

[REM018]

My rank has been reset 3 times. 2 for absence and one was a rating reset. When I was playing nonstop Zulu first round was 1200 something games wins and losses, then there was the second round in which I played around 700 something games in FFA and there is this round when I was reset but my record games stayed the same and that record in wins and losses is about 3 games from 2000 altogether. I care about my rank more than anyone who has ever played so I don't want to hear opinions on the matter as I have done enough games to know what I'm talking about. Someone telling me that they know more about the rating system is like telling me that you can lose two advantage battles in a row before 1200 a.d.... CAN'T HAPPEN!

Multi, you are making statements that are very subjective and absolute. That in itself invalidates your statements. You can't just use "i played enough so I know what I am talking about and therefore anybody who disagrees is wrong". That just does not fly and makes any other point you are trying to make very hard to take seriously.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

Your theory is a lie if you were attacked meanwhile between those attacks you had advantage. You are making lies dude... I know what the heck I'm talking about. Who cares about how many games I played... I point that out for standing among my statements concerning rank. Don't come here as if your opinions still stand when you haven't monitored rank points in over a year and a half now so hit the block on that one Morte.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

You can disagree all you want too Rem0 but I stand by what I have witnessed. That is my fact and stand by that regardless of what OPINION IS MENTIONED. Anything will be wrong to me if it can't be proved. This is total logic dude. I can say that h2h is full of idiotic noobs but I play it not often but you say that you are right concerning there aren't idiots who play h2h because you personally play amongst them whenever you play. You will never take what I say to be true because you go by common sense of people who you played with and know in h2h. What I said would have never stood among what you believe.

Don't tell me what I say is subjective and absolute because until further proof is there that what I have witnessed among the MANY games I played to witness my statements concerning "rating points" to be clear and truth then you best get the heck out of here. LOL, makes any other point I make not be taken seriously as if I could say some stuff going forward that I beat Kyodai as Blake Griffin in two games in a row in FFA and no one believes it because I made some statement "NO ONE can tell me how the FFA system works as I play it more than anybody ever has, period!" and now everything else I say is a lie. Kick rocks with that one Rem0.

[MorteEterna]

You can disagree all you want too Rem0 but I stand by what I have witnessed. That is my fact and stand by that regardless of what OPINION IS MENTIONED. Anything will be wrong to me if it can't be proved. This is total logic dude. I can say that h2h is full of idiotic noobs but I play it not often but you say that you are right concerning there aren't idiots who play h2h because you personally play amongst them whenever you play. You will never take what I say to be true because you go by common sense of people who you played with and know in h2h. What I said would have never stood among what you believe.

Don't tell me what I say is subjective and absolute because until further proof is there that what I have witnessed among the MANY games I played to witness my statements concerning "rating points" to be clear and truth then you best get the heck out of here. LOL, makes any other point I make not be taken seriously as if I could say some stuff going forward that I beat Kyodai as Blake Griffin in two games in a row in FFA and no one believes it because I made some statement "NO ONE can tell me how the FFA system works as I play it more than anybody ever has, period!" and now everything else I say is a lie. Kick rocks with that one Rem0.

If you have to say "hey, I've beat Kyoday" to say you are good (if you are doing that), it means itself you are not. Maybe you could say you did anyway but who cares right now. Your statement is subjective (you said you played more ffa games than anyone else), and same for the other statement "no one can tell me how the ffa system works..."

I think you don't know about rating points. If you do, tell me how I did get 20 points at about 2450 points. If you say that's impossible, all your statements fail.

[MorteEterna]

Your theory is a lie if you were attacked meanwhile between those attacks you had advantage. You are making lies dude... I know what the heck I'm talking about. Who cares about how many games I played... I point that out for standing among my statements concerning rank. Don't come here as if your opinions still stand when you haven't monitored rank points in over a year and a half now so hit the block on that one Morte.

I knew you were going to say that. I didn't attack anybody meanwhile, I lost 2 advantage battles in a row, plain and simple. Again, your statement fails. Maybe it's just the fact that probabilities make it happen rarely, but it does happen a lot.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

I knew you were going to say that. I didn't attack anybody meanwhile, I lost 2 advantage battles in a row, plain and simple. Again, your statement fails. Maybe it's just the fact that probabilities make it happen rarely, but it does happen a lot.

Never ever ever ever has that happened to someone facing me or me facing them BEFORE 1200AD. If you stick to that lie you keep telling then you and me have nothing else to say. YOU CAN NOT LOSE TWO ADVANTAGE BATTLES IN A ROW IF THE BOTH BATTLES WERE FINISHED. BASICALLY YOU CAN NOT LOSE TWO UNITS, ARMIES OR FLEETS TWICE IN A ROW BEFORE 1200 AD. SOMEONE VIDEO ME SOME MESS LIKE THAT AND I BELIEVE IT. PEOPLE GO ON THINGS BASED BY WORDS AND NOT PROOF.

[MultiPlayaBeast]

That Kyodai thing was sarcasm... you do know what sarcasm is Morte??? I stick to the fact I played more games than anyone... why... Zulu games are more faster than any game there is played among civs and I played like crazy with Zulu back in the day. I know I played more games than anyone because I care about the crap, Morte. Don't tell me what I know because I know what I know dude. No one can't tell me how the ffa system works because I SAY SO! You getting 20 points at about 2450 I can't fathom because I can't get more than 15 points and I been ranked from 2-10 for the past 3 months.

[MorteEterna]

Never ever ever ever has that happened to someone facing me or me facing them BEFORE 1200AD. If you stick to that lie you keep telling then you and me have nothing else to say. YOU CAN NOT LOSE TWO ADVANTAGE BATTLES IN A ROW IF THE BOTH BATTLES WERE FINISHED. BASICALLY YOU CAN NOT LOSE TWO UNITS, ARMIES OR FLEETS TWICE IN A ROW BEFORE 1200 AD. SOMEONE VIDEO ME SOME MESS LIKE THAT AND I BELIEVE IT. PEOPLE GO ON THINGS BASED BY WORDS AND NOT PROOF.

People go on things based by words and not proof.

Oh wow, you are doing it right now!

I can't see any proof of your statement, ANYWHERE. It's much easier to proof that it's not true. It's impossible in this world to prove your statement is right, since you would only go near 99.9999999% of truth, with thousands of tentatives.

So, since that happened to me, I will consider your statement false, I don't care if you say it's true. For me, and only for me, it's not, and since I could see it with my eyes (more than once), that's it.

[MorteEterna]

That Kyodai thing was sarcasm... you do know what sarcasm is Morte??? I stick to the fact I played more games than anyone... why... Zulu games are more faster than any game there is played among civs and I played like crazy with Zulu back in the day. I know I played more games than anyone because I care about the crap, Morte. Don't tell me what I know because I know what I know dude. No one can't tell me how the ffa system works because I SAY SO! You getting 20 points at about 2450 I can't fathom because I can't get more than 15 points and I been ranked from 2-10 for the past 3 months.

I have been ranked number one for more than a year, almost two (or maybe more?), so I think your example of being ranked from 2-10 for the past 3 months isn't good enough.

That's bad for you, I did, plain and simple.

[GrizzleyTigers4]

This has been going on for two days....new subject please.....Its time to just agree to disagree

[General De Cool]

"hey, I've beat Kyoday"
.

I beat Kyoday with French once, it was a most precious civ moment. He's always plays Yanks, the only other times I beated him was when he quit early on. I think it is doing extremely well to beat anyone in the top 50 with French. Though I can't explain Blake Griffin obscene win ratio, Rank 4 Favorite leader French. It looks dubious, I've never played him, only 16 loses. Hmm Congrats on making pole position MPB though much better to face you than Morte because of the penalty for losing.

[dukeblue1987]

I beat Kyoday with French once, it was a most precious civ moment. He's always plays Yanks, the only other times I beated him was when he quit early on. I think it is doing extremely well to beat anyone in the top 50 with French. Though I can't explain Blake Griffin obscene win ratio, Rank 4 Favorite leader French. It looks dubious, I've never played him, only 16 loses. Hmm Congrats on making pole position MPB though much better to face you than Morte because of the penalty for losing.

Blake Griffin is Kyodai as well. He has such a high win ratio because he plays power civs often (you could play USA 9 times, China 9 times, Zulu 9 times, French 10 times and your symbol will be French) and he avoids good players (he has avoided me several times recently).

[ScottieX]

I can't see any proof of your statement, ANYWHERE. It's much easier to proof that it's not true. It's impossible in this world to prove your statement is right, since you would only go near 99.9999999% of truth, with thousands of tentatives.

So, since that happened to me, I will consider your statement false, I don't care if you say it's true. For me, and only for me, it's not, and since I could see it with my eyes (more than once), that's it.

Well yes he is wrong because I have had the same experience as you infact i got those results whilst specifically running tests.
But at the same time he is right that it appears to be less likely. I may be mistaken but i think sid said somwhere that he made it less likely (but not impossible).
it may be impossible to loose two huge advantage battles, or maybe two one HP battles in a row or somthing like that.FWIW i can see ways to make the score say 230-0. there is a guy on ps3 with a record WAY 'better' than that.. but... yeah hard to see how it can be done without... well at least some careful management... considering all those things that happen more than once per 230 games.

I can hardly go 20 games without loosing one i actually WON!!

[Pedal2Metal]

.FWIW i can see ways to make the score say 230-0. there is a guy on ps3 with a record WAY 'better' than that.. but... yeah hard to see how it can be done without... well at least some careful management... considering all those things that happen more than once per 230 games.

I went 45-0 w/America long ago & P2M2 went 90-0 & I know Morte has done similar w/Arabs/America. It is possible but you have to be good, patient, & never quit. If I see someone who I know is very good & doesn't freeze, it's believable. So Kyodai can do it for sure. So can Duke. People with weak civ IDs rarely play them pure although there have been exceptions: Duke's & my run to top-10 w/Russia, Grayson's French, MadDjinn's Mongols.

A very small number of players do game the system (flashgordonahah for example who is brent psu33). In addition, there are forum members who won't freeze other known forum member IDs but will freeze when they think the ID is a no-name & they are losing & they are afraid to drop their rank. I still see this occassionally even today, such as a few weeks ago when a member was losing in a xxxxxxxx game & they decided to freeze the game to avoid dropping rank. My son quit but it's amusing still. In some sense, I understand if one cares so much about rank rather than actual skill, why not freeze the game, especially if the other guy clearly has better skills? On the other hand, it pretty much indicates that rank means little with respect to skill in many cases, though not all.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[General De Cool]

Blake Griffin is Kyodai as well. He has such a high win ratio because he plays power civs often (you could play USA 9 times, China 9 times, Zulu 9 times, French 10 times and your symbol will be French) and he avoids good players (he has avoided me several times recently).

Yeah I tried that managed to get to position 30 with China then just gave up on French, USA beat China on average but I don't play them. China has the edge on Zulu in my opinion but I'm sure MPB would disagree

[Pedal2Metal]

China has the edge on Zulu in my opinion but I'm sure MPB would disagree

Most would put either America or China as the top 2 civs. I think that's the established community consensus so you're on the majority side of that discussion.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[Pedal2Metal]

Blake Griffin is Kyodai as well. He has such a high win ratio because he plays power civs often (you could play USA 9 times, China 9 times, Zulu 9 times, French 10 times and your symbol will be French) and he avoids good players (he has avoided me several times recently).

I don't like the innuendo/vibe I was picking up, maybe it was just me but I doubt it if transparent truth be told.

<stepping up on soapbox>

What you describe is what everyone does, nothing to do with Kyodai, so I fail to see how his name is relevant to answer the question. You could have described the answer in more general & normative terms since that is EXACTLY what literally everyone here does as well. In addition, I see nothing wrong with either practice anyhow. It's someone's complete right to choose their opponent & their civilization. You are free to respect others more or less as you see fit but there is absolutely no shame, disgrace, impropriety, etc... in someone choosing their opponent and the civilization they intend to play. Frankly, I think less of people who play that card because usually it is followed by an excuse as to why they lost & a nasty XBL message to me after the game to the effect of "you suck & can't play blah blah blah", although that's not intended to be personally directed as I've always seen you play & take what your dealt regardless, it's just a general experience I've seen when playing in ranked H2H play (& I've played a lot). Beyond that, you have no idea in actuality why someone avoids playing you. Kyodai rarely avoids me or P2M2. I just played him as a matter of fact in the past week as Blake Griffin. I was America, he was England. He played a whale of a game but he lost. Does that sound like someone who is avoiding good players? Even if he was, that's his freaking right to do so! My emblem is Spanish but clearly it isn't always Spanish & I rarely avoid players. Does that make me "better"? No, not one iota. I've made my decision, they make theirs. It's simply a different decision is all.
Also, why just avoid you? Maybe it froze on him once when he played you, maybe he hates your mother, maybe you're too good-looking , maybe you smell like fish when you're online, etc... but whatever it is, you simply don't know but you like to make this innuendo that it's because he's "afraid" or something to that effect. Nonsense. It's just what everyone does when they are rank-hunting with very rare exceptions & that's the truth. In fact, it happened to us TONIGHT with posters on this very thread! So it's completely normal within the community & frankly, completely acceptable. Trust me, I'm no buddy of Kyodai & he's no buddy of mine but this subtle attempt at marginalization while attempting to maintain plausible deniability & moral superiority ("I didn't say those things Pedal" which is legally true but you wanted the reader to infer them naturally & subtly so you could deny them later when confronted yet achieve your goal with the majority) when it's the overwhelming community normative (virtually 100% of all players do this very thing) infuriates me. Reminds me of what reporters do to people. Utterly despicable. I'm sure I'm about to get my fair share of "playing with words" now. Let's hear it.

<stepping down now>

You know me, I'm passionate about these types of things but I tried to stay on my issue with the representation. I just think we should make an effort to put things in as objective a light as possible & in this case, picking your opponent & civilization to maximize rank is what every single person here does on a regular basis. It is nothing special & certainly doesn't diminish one's accomplishments. It's the very reason why many of us have 2 IDs: 1 for rank, 1 for fun. Anyhow, thanks for listening.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[ITZ DENI3D]

I don't like the innuendo/vibe I was picking up, maybe it was just me but I doubt it if transparent truth be told.

<stepping up on soapbox>

What you describe is what everyone does, nothing to do with Kyodai, so I fail to see how his name is relevant to answer the question. You could have described the answer in more general & normative terms since that is EXACTLY what literally everyone here does as well. In addition, I see nothing wrong with either practice anyhow. It's someone's complete right to choose their opponent & their civilization. You are free to respect others more or less as you see fit but there is absolutely no shame, disgrace, impropriety, etc... in someone choosing their opponent and the civilization they intend to play. Frankly, I think less of people who play that card because usually it is followed by an excuse as to why they lost & a nasty XBL message to me after the game to the effect of "you suck & can't play blah blah blah", although that's not intended to be personally directed as I've always seen you play & take what your dealt regardless, it's just a general experience I've seen when playing in ranked H2H play (& I've played a lot). Beyond that, you have no idea in actuality why someone avoids playing you. Kyodai rarely avoids me or P2M2. I just played him as a matter of fact in the past week as Blake Griffin. I was America, he was England. He played a whale of a game but he lost. Does that sound like someone who is avoiding good players? Even if he was, that's his freaking right to do so! My emblem is Spanish but clearly it isn't always Spanish & I rarely avoid players. Does that make me "better"? No, not one iota. I've made my decision, they make theirs. It's simply a different decision is all.
Also, why just avoid you? Maybe it froze on him once when he played you, maybe he hates your mother, maybe you're too good-looking , maybe you smell like fish when you're online, etc... but whatever it is, you simply don't know but you like to make this innuendo that it's because he's "afraid" or something to that effect. Nonsense. It's just what everyone does when they are rank-hunting with very rare exceptions & that's the truth. In fact, it happened to us TONIGHT with posters on this very thread! So it's completely normal within the community & frankly, completely acceptable. Trust me, I'm no buddy of Kyodai & he's no buddy of mine but this subtle attempt at marginalization while attempting to maintain plausible deniability & moral superiority ("I didn't say those things Pedal" which is legally true but you wanted the reader to infer them naturally & subtly so you could deny them later when confronted yet achieve your goal with the majority) when it's the overwhelming community normative (virtually 100% of all players do this very thing) infuriates me. Reminds me of what reporters do to people. Utterly despicable. I'm sure I'm about to get my fair share of "playing with words" now. Let's hear it.

<stepping down now>

You know me, I'm passionate about these types of things but I tried to stay on my issue with the representation. I just think we should make an effort to put things in as objective a light as possible & in this case, picking your opponent & civilization to maximize rank is what every single person here does on a regular basis. It is nothing special & certainly doesn't diminish one's accomplishments. It's the very reason why many of us have 2 IDs: 1 for rank, 1 for fun. Anyhow, thanks for listening.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

I only have one tag and since I got reset my Civ emblems have been: Spanish, Germans, Egyptians, and Japan planning on changing it to English pretty soon. It is easy to do that in ranked FFA but still a lot better than consecutive America and Zulu games... I've played America a few times recently and against anyone except forum members it is practically impossible to lose. Even if someone gets a better start it is usually very easy to come back from and the same goes for the Zulu when I had a playing spree with them a few months back. All in all I play pretty much whatever civ I feel like playing (usually bottom ten), but to play America that much against such unprepared players shows no skill at all and proves nothing about how good you are. I've played Kyodai twice once I was Egypt, he was America and Pointonestar was Japan. Point was able to give him a run for his money but in the end I think he won after GS'ing both money techs. The second one was me Japan V.S. Multi Romans and his English. Multi lagged out on the first turn and Kyodai got a free cap because of it. He also got AOC and SoC but I took one of his cities for Monarchy with a HA early. I got a GB for Sam castle and a GL towards the end of the game. Nearly beat him but once he got LCOA and GB oxford bombers and GS'd Industrialization it was over, afterwards he started saying how bad we were on the forums and that we were all garbage compared to him even though he barely beat me after getting every wonder in the game and a free AI. 2 games isn't enough to judge how good someone is, but I think I have a pretty good idea though...

[General De Cool]

The Civs are a bit unbalanced and the glitches are a little unsporting. Monguls are hardly represented in the top 200 and if anyone should be able to muster a horse rush, it's them. The win ratio I get is 400% different without even using what I consider to be the best and worst civ. It's fun steeling a game from noobs while playing the underdog but if you come up against a high rank player, the chances of winning are low.

To be fair it should be - Monguls - Horse Units Half Price instead of movement bonus possibly.

[Liam_Sutty]

Mogols with half priced horses in ancient would put them right up there with America & China! Think of all those single pop barb cities each getting a horse out in 5 turns on a tree! Then add the extra movement in medieval and there won't be a stone unturned on the map that a mongol horse hasn't uncovered!

[ITZ DENI3D]

Mogols with half priced horses in ancient would put them right up there with America & China! Think of all those single pop barb cities each getting a horse out in 5 turns on a tree! Then add the extra movement in medieval and there won't be a stone unturned on the map that a mongol horse hasn't uncovered!

True... But I think the Mongols deserve that, at least for what they achieved in history...