Checking In..

[Jtc3400]

Like many of you, I was eagerly awaiting Civ 5, and was hugely disappointed when we got it. It has since gone through several large patches, and it looks like they have tried to do a lot. They have added changes that I did myself (such as making markets produce gold, factories production) but more importantly things that are beyond my abilities such as fixing the AI have been listed. Listing them is one thing, actually being fixed is another. So, some questions...

1) Is the AI at least decent now? will it build a strong air force and not spam worthless AA units rather then tanks? Can it do a naval invasion now that's actually a threat?

2) Is it better at founding cities? I know they upped the min city distance to 3 (should of been done 3 civs ago) but do they actually found them in smart places or still do stupid things like founding 1 tile from the coast or rivers?

3) Has diplomacy improved? Does the AI actually have reasons for being your friend/enemy now or is it still some random annoying system?

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

[scaramonga]

Like many of you, I was eagerly awaiting Civ 5, and was hugely disappointed when we got it. It has since gone through several large patches, and it looks like they have tried to do a lot. They have added changes that I did myself (such as making markets produce gold, factories production) but more importantly things that are beyond my abilities such as fixing the AI have been listed. Listing them is one thing, actually being fixed is another. So, some questions...

1) Is the AI at least decent now? will it build a strong air force and not spam worthless AA units rather then tanks? Can it do a naval invasion now that's actually a threat?

2) Is it better at founding cities? I know they upped the min city distance to 3 (should of been done 3 civs ago) but do they actually found them in smart places or still do stupid things like founding 1 tile from the coast or rivers?

3) Has diplomacy improved? Does the AI actually have reasons for being your friend/enemy now or is it still some random annoying system?

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

1) No

2) No

3) No

4) Not that I know of

[eastkitton]

Still a bit soon after the recent large patch to get a clear picture.

1) Doesn't spam AA. Otherwise....

3) It has its reasons but they may not make sense to YOU.

[Black Gate of Mordor]

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

I believe that the modders need the source code for that, and they don't have it.

[jacypr]

1) No

2) No

3) No

4) Not that I know of

Exactly this.

Come back after another 6 or 8 months, maybe the answer to the fourth question will be yes, if they release the source code and documentation soon enough.

[MoistPancake]

Like many of you, I was eagerly awaiting Civ 5, and was hugely disappointed when we got it. It has since gone through several large patches, and it looks like they have tried to do a lot. They have added changes that I did myself (such as making markets produce gold, factories production) but more importantly things that are beyond my abilities such as fixing the AI have been listed. Listing them is one thing, actually being fixed is another. So, some questions...

1) Is the AI at least decent now? will it build a strong air force and not spam worthless AA units rather then tanks? Can it do a naval invasion now that's actually a threat?

2) Is it better at founding cities? I know they upped the min city distance to 3 (should of been done 3 civs ago) but do they actually found them in smart places or still do stupid things like founding 1 tile from the coast or rivers?

3) Has diplomacy improved? Does the AI actually have reasons for being your friend/enemy now or is it still some random annoying system?

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

1.) Kindof. They do not spam AA guns as much and they do build some air units, but not that many. The AI is much smarter than it was at release, but it still needs lots of work.

2.)Kindof. The AI doesn't spam as many cities as it used to, but it still loves to dig itself into every little pocket it can find. I haven't seen a change in placement though. They build probably about 30-40% less cities than they used to, but it really depends on the game.

3.)The diplomacy is far better than it used to be. I have actually managed to keep long-term allies and wage team wars far more frequently. However, the diplomacy still has a tendency to be unpredictable and bipolar. Much of the time an ally will 100% refuse any allied wars and sometimes randomly turns into your enemy. Chain denouncements have been reduced but they still happen on occasion. The AI still cannot seem to understand the difference between defense and military conquest. The list of issues goes on. Compared to release, it is MUCH better, but it far from problem free and needs lots of work.

4.)Nope


Overall the game has improved tremendously but is still far from perfect. Many will still say the game is horrible but it is your opinion that matters. Play the game and try it out for yourself. The devs are still cranking out regular patches and I'm confident that eventually the game will live up to the standards of most of the CiV players.

[Edward_TC]

Pretty much what everybody has been stating, however, more to the point of Diplomacy.

There is still a serious lack of ways to build one's relationship with AI Nations. This means the Player is forced to play in a far more restrictive manner if they want to keep allies during the game. Also, there is still the fact the Player's relationship with an AI Nation can be impacted by the AI Nation thinking the Player is trying to win the game in a similar fashion. It breaks immersion of the gameplay which is annoying. And there is still back stabbing.

[lietkynes]

1) Is the AI at least decent now? will it build a strong air force and not spam worthless AA units rather then tanks? Can it do a naval invasion now that's actually a threat?

It has improved a lot.
It still has problems.

2) Is it better at founding cities? I know they upped the min city distance to 3 (should of been done 3 civs ago) but do they actually found them in smart places or still do stupid things like founding 1 tile from the coast or rivers?

No improvements here, if you leave 5 tiles of tundra unclaimed in the middle of your empire, AI will try to settle there

3) Has diplomacy improved? Does the AI actually have reasons for being your friend/enemy now or is it still some random annoying system?

It has improved a little.
It still has big problems.

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

No

[Panda_Power]

4) Has any mod come out on the level of Rise of Mankind for Civ 4?

We can but dream....one day it will come!

[Kierkegaard]

2) Is it better at founding cities? I know they upped the min city distance to 3 (should of been done 3 civs ago) but do they actually found them in smart places or still do stupid things like founding 1 tile from the coast or rivers?

I don't know anything about coding; but I assume something like this is very hard to code. In civilization IV this was a problem. Whilst the game itself was top notch.

Can someone confirm if I'm right?

[NitroPhantasm]

For whatever *is* fixed, this is all so anti-climactic. The shock of being tethered to Steam servers has been a focal point for me primarily, I suspect, because I have never lost myself in a game. Once CIV V runs smoothly, especially with the promised hotseat supposedly coming in two months (I have a personal wager this means October) I'll give it a go with my son. Will LA Noire or some other game pull me away? I don't know. It all so passe. I hope it has a hay day.

[Jtc3400]

Have the great Civ moders lost interest, or is Civ 5 too hard to mod on the level of Civ 4?

"No improvements here, if you leave 5 tiles of tundra unclaimed in the middle of your empire, AI will try to settle there"

This problem is exceedingly annoying and almost causes me to grind my teeth with rage. This HAS to be fixed. A city should only be founded if its going to be a good strong city, not because free land is there. If they cant fix it, then they need to impliment a system of claiming land. For example, say you are playing America on a huge world map. You don't want to found cities in far north Canada but you dont want the AI founding there either, you should be able to claim it as territory without having cities there.

[Valkrionn]

It's not that anyone's lost interest; It's that the DLL is not released. Without that DLL, far reaching changes can not be made (or rather, cannot be taught to the AI, and can only be made in a way that tends to slow the game).

[QuantumTarantino]

Will LA Noire

Yes, it will.

[Pouakai]

You could check out either Civilization NiGHTS or Procylon's Call To Power mod, neither on the level of modifications brought about by RoM, but still huge improvements on basegame (Former replaces Happiness with Stability)

[NitroPhantasm]

You could check out either Civilization NiGHTS or Procylon's Call To Power mod, neither on the level of modifications brought about by RoM, but still huge improvements on basegame (Former replaces Happiness with Stability)

Tell me in a few words what Procylon's Call To Power mod is please.

[QuantumTarantino]

It is a Total conversion mod, that tries to emulate Call to Power.

[Sugam]

For civs settling in annoying locations in between you towns or what not,

have a second culture (called influence? or something of its nature) spreed from the towns you create. It is double in size, cant control it for its based off the real culture radius and it does nothing but one thing, other Civs can not found a new city in that zone UNLESS you give it permission or is at war.

Yup, my bachelors at work for game design. Sadly, I am still not in the industry.

I know that it would obliviously need adjustments, but you all should get the idea.

[Devilbound]

1) No

2) No

3) No

4) Not that I know of

Yeap. +1...

[SamBC]

It's not that anyone's lost interest; It's that the DLL is not released. Without that DLL, far reaching changes can not be made (or rather, cannot be taught to the AI, and can only be made in a way that tends to slow the game).

See, I dislike the idea of all major modding being a source-level thing, as it makes it less modular, but the AI issue makes it unavoidable. What would be great would be an AI architecture that allowed better hooking. This could even be possible with GameEvents, using the accumulator style of events (I think) by allowing you to supply weights to actions the AI is considering - so you could down-weight city building if cash flow is poor.

For completely new mechanics, it's more difficult but it ought to be possible. Maybe an API for presenting new choices to the AI and let the flavour system do its work (for picking a new policy-like matter, like discussed for religion). The New World scenario gives an example of using GameEvents to hook into aspects of unit AI (changing how auto-explore works), if there were enough hooks and a good enough API this could work, although that might then involve having to write complete decision-making code for a particular unit.

[Valkrionn]

Well. To be honest, COMPLETELY new mechanics are simple to do (difficult to teach the AI, but given some more detail in GameEvents, should be possible).

The larger issue is rewriting existing mechanics. HOWEVER, GameEvents should be able to do that as well... IF adequately exposed and detailed.

So yes, you're right about that. But things are far simpler in the DLL; I'd prefer modular DLLs, where you can replace/add to specific functions.

[SamBC]

So yes, you're right about that. But things are far simpler in the DLL; I'd prefer modular DLLs, where you can replace/add to specific functions.

With a modular enough design, a modular extension system for DLL access should give almost as much flexibility as core source modding and at least as much modularity as the current modding system. However, it's hard to get that modular without designing it in in the first place, and it's a rare game that's written that modular (unless it's planned as a flexible engine for multiple games, anyway).

[Valkrionn]

We can hope.